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THE IRON GIANT
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As a Si dom, I'm no stranger to the struggle between my sensing dominant and intuitive inferior function. Your lineup of cognitive functions, according to the Myers-Briggs model, has distinct benefits and weaknesses as compared to mine. Here's a quick summary, and then I'll get to the question.

The benefit is that you have better access to your intuitive function than I do, since they're closer together. However, your Se is still in conflict with your Ni, and their proximity means they're going to fight more often. Generally, when you're immature, your Se is leading your Ni. You're more tactile and realistic than you are random and esoteric. As you mature, your Ni may come more into focus, but in order to use it more, you're using your Se less. The Se, since it's more dominant, is healthier: comfortable, balancing, centering, and relaxing, while the Ni is weaker and unhealthier: it brings anxiety and chaos.

I imagine this makes you feel crazy, just as my Ne does to me, but perhaps moreso. But do you find it actually changes the way you experience your senses?

@Kayness and I have been talking about it on and off. It appears that the more she uses her Ni, the more chaotic she feels, and the less pleasure she is able to derive from sensory experiences, such as eating. The food tastes the same, she just likes it less. Jung's description of Se implicitly connects sensory experiences and pleasure. So I'd like to see if other ISxPs are having a similar experience.

Thanks for your responses and insight.
 

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When I use Ni too much I get scared. I don't know about other ISTPs, but I start to imagine negative things and I feel numb, like I am looking out at the world from a distance rather than interacting with it directly. Basically it can get me quite depressed.
The irony is that at the time I think I am developing profound new insights of myself, but afterwards I just think "did I really gain anything from thinking all that crap?"
 

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To me it feels like an on/off switch sort of (which probably is amplified by my ADD, just putting it here in case anyone find value and context in it).

When I'm Ni mode I'm barley even in the world, excessive daydreaming, inattentive and often looses track of time. People see through me a lot of the time I think.
But in Se mode I relate to ESTP description and feel, I'm really "out there" being sensual and get some sort of strong energy/aura that I don't think anyone can miss. I prefer to sit on the sides and not draw attention to myself in a class room scenario, and the more reserved and quiet that I act in this mode, the more people around me seems to grow weary, when I'm actively speaking or taking charge in group situations people generally feel like they relax more around me.

Detaching myself in introvert mode I can suppress hunger highly effectively and experiences time in a sporadic fashion (one of the reasons I have for the tendency to arrive late), and attached to my body again I do feel much more balanced, harmonious, relaxed as you wrote. Meditation as example has given me the ability to much better tap in to my Se I guess, and just feel the moment, stop the thoughts and be able to fall asleep.
 

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it also makes me increasingly anxious and paranoid...hopefully it'll stop when my use of it improves.
 

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I suppose Se just wants me to go out and do stuff, and enjoy it simply for what it is. Ni makes me doubt everything I'm doing and forces me to think of future consequences, and also wants me to find hidden meaning in everything... that's something I've never liked doing. I want to enjoy everything without having to think of its spiritual purpose! It's just comfort to go into Se mode and experience/enjoy everything as it is.
 

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As a Si dom, I'm no stranger to the struggle between my sensing dominant and intuitive inferior function. Your lineup of cognitive functions, according to the Myers-Briggs model, has distinct benefits and weaknesses as compared to mine. Here's a quick summary, and then I'll get to the question.

The benefit is that you have better access to your intuitive function than I do, since they're closer together. However, your Se is still in conflict with your Ni, and their proximity means they're going to fight more often. Generally, when you're immature, your Se is leading your Ni. You're more tactile and realistic than you are random and esoteric. As you mature, your Ni may come more into focus, but in order to use it more, you're using your Se less. The Se, since it's more dominant, is healthier: comfortable, balancing, centering, and relaxing, while the Ni is weaker and unhealthier: it brings anxiety and chaos.

I imagine this makes you feel crazy, just as my Ne does to me, but perhaps moreso. But do you find it actually changes the way you experience your senses?

Kayness and I have been talking about it on and off. It appears that the more she uses her Ni, the more chaotic she feels, and the less pleasure she is able to derive from sensory experiences, such as eating. The food tastes the same, she just likes it less. Jung's description of Se implicitly connects sensory experiences and pleasure. So I'd like to see if other ISxPs are having a similar experience.

Thanks for your responses and insight.
Well first things first, I'm not sure which xSFP I am, but I can say that I have no discomfort with casual use of Ni for recreation or stress relief. I have done so for many many years and could not have gotten by without it. That's one reason I don't see why the S vs N divide seems to be so gaping for a lot of people because I genuinely see both as useful. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the serious N type stuff, but it's not that I don't appreciate it, or worse feel aversion to it. At worst you'll hear me say things like "well that's just too unrealistic for be to believe", no disrespect. Same goes for T vs F. So that's how I think mine "fight" for control. It's especially hard if I'm having a rough time and I'm sort of living through Ni and ignoring my usual Se-type values. (if that even makes sense I'll be lucky!) Se makes me quite random, I don't need more btw! I would love for the more esoteric side to kick in eventually, I'm sure my Buddhist practise (through mandala chanting) is tapping into that so maybe soon? Hopefully :) The only time Ni brings chaos is when I'm at my worst which hasn't happened in a good long while. Maybe for younger ISFP people it acts that way, I don't know.

I'm almost certain my mother is an ISTJ, surely and ISxJ at least and I can see the Ne influence in her at times, like she's super creative with her organizing and decorating the house and outside. I should post pics of her work in my type appreciation thread sometime now that I think of it. I do remember a time when she worried incessantly when I was younger, it seemed she was cautioning me (and teachers as well) about well, everything and it has sort a of a creepy effect, like it worked as I was young and vulnerable and the amount of danger and safety commercials and shows I remember just reinforced all that. That was a rough time! Also when we got into an accident during a very stressful time in her life, she seemed to have lost all access to her Si and she wouldn't take my word for what happened which I remembered in great detail. She got manipulated by the guy who crashed into us and there wasn't a thing I could do about it, no amount of detail or reason (which is her usual self) could change or even swerve, he had more influence that I did all of a sudden and I was the one sitting next to her watching all this! I had a somewhat similar experience when I was at rock bottom of my health a couple of times a long while back now. I seem to have better "control" now, if you can even call it that. I understand a bit of your aversion to Ne since just thinking about what I know about Ne activities just the idea of trying them seems...exhausting! And most of the time pointless for myself, personally. We did a brainstorming course a while back and I really had not much to say during our group activities. Unless you count the endless questions, I don't get any pleasure from that one whatsoever. Not sure if that's because it's likely my 8th function or what.

tl;dr
No I actually like to play with Ni. Mostly judging functions are the ones I'm not fussy about playing with and seem to impede my pleasure. I'm not sure how to "play" with those anyway atm.
 

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I actually relate to everyone in this thread. I have had anxiety and paranoia because of my Ni, I have felt unpleasantly detached, and noticed that my mood almost became immediately better if I did something in the physical world. I can also avoid thinking about the future, like put my hands over my ears like "la la tomorrow will take of itself" is a flaw I have, though I don't think I'm so immature that I don't think about the future at all, of course.

On the other hand, I seem to have become so comfortable with Ni that I can sit around and reflect and analyze, but if I go overboard with it, I think it makes me feel stressed out and depressed, and I've learned to recognize that.
 

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On a good day, I use my Ni to plan out actions and goals that will make my life more meaningful and fulfilling in the future.

On a bad day, I use my Ni to prove to myself that all my actions and goals are meaningless in the long term and that life is going nowhere.



If I enter Ni, discover something, and then escape and use it in an Se, action in the moment manner, I'll feel enlightened. However, if I get stuck in between Ni and Fi, never doing anything real in the world, I'll likely fall into bouts of depression, meaninglessness, and anger at society for being the way they are.

So it could impede, but also enhance if used wisely.
 

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Am I the only one who likes using my Ni? I'm kind of used to the anxiety it can bring me, but i'm defiantly using it on a healthly level now. It's actually the unhealthy side of Se which scares me more.
 

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When I use Ni well it gives me insightful analysis or reflection on a subject.
When I use Ni poorly it traps me in my head with a festering tumor of thoughts. It leads me to become anxious and have a negative outlook on life.


Here's an interesting example:

When I play a strategy game (say, Othello) and am trying to decide my move given multiple possibilities aux-Se working with Ti seeks to answer "OK, this is what is going on right now. What is most strategic at present?" However, Ti knows that it's not that simple because the game changes with each move and the proceeding move of the opponent, so Ni with Ti tries to answer "What move right now will lead to me getting the upper hand three moves later?" I try to take a single move and predict what my opponent would do in return and what I would do thereafter.

Doing the first (Ti-Se) is easy. Doing the second (Ti-Ni) is difficult. I can feel the strain in my brain when I am using Ni in that context. The only way I can truly harness the second is by experience (Se) playing the game.
 

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The benefit is that you have better access to your intuitive function than I do, since they're closer together. However, your Se is still in conflict with your Ni, and their proximity means they're going to fight more often. Generally, when you're immature, your Se is leading your Ni.
This is a misconception. With functions there is only one certain hierarchy that exits; All serve the dominant, and your inferior is your inferior - meaning Ni and Se aren't in conflict whatsoever but are called upon as needed by the judging function.

Basically, judging doms are one dimensional when it comes to their ability to judge things (T/F), while perceiving doms are one dimensional in regards to how they perceive the world (S/N).
 

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THE IRON GIANT
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Discussion Starter #12
This is a misconception. With functions there is only one certain hierarchy that exits; All serve the dominant, and your inferior is your inferior - meaning Ni and Se aren't in conflict whatsoever but are called upon as needed by the judging function.

Basically, judging doms are one dimensional when it comes to their ability to judge things (T/F), while perceiving doms are one dimensional in regards to how they perceive the world (S/N).
I was basing this on the functional theory that access to our functions is linear, so to access your Ni you need to do it through your Se, and to access your Fe, you need to do it through your Ni.
 

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I was basing this on the functional theory that access to our functions is linear, so to access your Ni you need to do it through your Se, and to access your Fe, you need to do it through your Ni.
Exactly why I called it a misconception :mellow:

Although I do realize the thread is a tad older than I originally thought.
 

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I don't completely understand introverted intuition yet, but I think I use it regularly (though less often than Se.)

Whenever I get lost in my mind (in the classroom, on the bus, doing boring work), which I think happens when there is lack of Se-stimulation, I get visions of the future (they are usually very visual and actually almost feel real).

For instance, I have a month to make up my mind about whether I want to start at architecture or industrial design this fall. Since I've thought about it a lot, I've sometimes gotten these visions of how my life situation will be depending on the choice.

I also often imagine future events if there is a girl I have a crush on. Like the dream scene from Dumb Dumber:
 

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Oh, yeah. I've actually been in what could be described as a dom-tert loop of Ti and Ni for the past 3 years and am now finally coming out of it. During these years I pretty much stopped intentionally using Se because I didn't see the value of it, and became extremely introverted. There was a period of literally 8 months in which I didn't hang out with one friend due to the social anxiety this caused. I would just think about theoretical issues all day and the whole thing was really confusing. When I took MBTI tests, I'd always score INTJ with weak N+J preferences, and that made sense to me since my behaviour was superficially similar to an INTJ's.

However I don't regard this experience as a negative thing, in retrospect. It's made me way more intuitive and more intelligent since I was focusing on education rather than physical experience. Thinking I was an INTJ, I tried to live up to the expectation that I should be intelligent, and it paid off somewhat. It was just hell to live through because it's not who I am. It's cool to be back.

 

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Oh, yeah. I've actually been in what could be described as a dom-tert loop of Ti and Ni for the past 3 years and am now finally coming out of it. During these years I pretty much stopped intentionally using Se because I didn't see the value of it, and became extremely introverted. There was a period of literally 8 months in which I didn't hang out with one friend due to the social anxiety this caused. I would just think about theoretical issues all day and the whole thing was really confusing. When I took MBTI tests, I'd always score INTJ with weak N+J preferences, and that made sense to me since my behaviour was superficially similar to an INTJ's.

However I don't regard this experience as a negative thing, in retrospect. It's made me way more intuitive and more intelligent since I was focusing on education rather than physical experience. Thinking I was an INTJ, I tried to live up to the expectation that I should be intelligent, and it paid off somewhat. It was just hell to live through because it's not who I am. It's cool to be back.

very interesting. I don't know my type for sure yet, but anyhow... I had an experience slightly similar to yours. When growing up, at one point (age 18 or so), I started thinking about general things, about the world, a lot of abstract things, requiring not only introversion but N usage as well. The world kind of opened up to me more and I just sooo had to analyse it.

Over the course of about 9 months or so, my S slowly got weaker and as a result, I got "disconnected" from direct sensory experiences and when I noticed this, it was so weird. -.- I just didn't enjoy sensory activities anymore, I felt too out of touch with all of it. I didn't really know what the hell to do about it though so I just left it at that. Overall it was not feeling like hell though, just weird at specific moments.

(There was a deeper degree of this process after that in the next couple of months - where I also got disconnected with my feelings as well but I managed to make myself snap out of it quickly, and no, it was not depression. Anyhow, I vowed to myself to never let myself go there again! And I never did.)

Later, after finally answering all my questions about the world and stuff that needed heavy use of introversion and N as well, I slowly reconnected with the world, over years. I don't have that crappy disconnection feeling to sensory experiences anymore, though I'm definitely a bit more reserved about sensory experiences now. That is, I'm not as focused on them as I was as a kid.

You could even say I got bored with a lot of the more plain sensory stuff as it's nothing new anymore, like, when I go around somewhere, I scan the environment quickly and most things will not take my attention for more than a fraction of a second so I keep moving on. So most of this scan is not even fully conscious, because I move on so quickly. Like, my stimulation threshold is quite a bit higher than it used to be. New stuff that does take my attention is cool though! It just has to get past my threshold. :p

Also, If I'm to stay in one place, then after the initial quick check of the environment I will just not pay attention to it and will try to find some activity instead to keep myself busy, or worst case I will introvert and think about whatever stuff I'm most involved with in general at the time.

I don't think this will ever change but I'm fine with it. I still live in this world and I still enjoy it no problem. I still love living in the present and interacting with the world. I'm just more thoughtful at times and that's fine too. :) And I of course still have all the neat thoughts and conclusions I got to while I was in that reclusive mode and they are all very useful too.

There is a seemingly more permanent side effect of course, and that is that sometimes when I've been introverted too much for a while or just simply not been focusing on the world around me, I feel somewhat drained and then I get a strong urge to snap out of it asap, to reconnect with the world around me, and then I do so, no problem.
 

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I like my Ni function, especially since it allows me to focus more on possibilities and to look at things differently when I get stuck in an unfavorable situation that I feel I have no way out of...at the time. It also fosters some nice escape fantasies while I'm waiting lol.

That being said, it's not always roses. For some reason I find Se very weak with me as a whole...I am very unaware of my surroundings and heck I doubt I could tell you what the outside of our apartment building looks like once I leave it. And boy do I ever get lost if I don't have my much more aware partner with me.

I think that it's my lack of Se that actually is what winds up screwing me over if anything. I have been in that place @Benja: talks about, trapped in a world of meaningless and anxiety and generally blaming society for being the way it is.

@Kito: Your comment about your Ni making you find meaning in things that you'd rather not deal with got me thinking too...I've always had a severe inferiority complex when it comes to being intelligent...that's probably why my Ni is so high. I'm using it as a crutch, to try and keep up with my family of geniuses...I honestly feel it really is the only function I have that enables me to understand hidden meanings of things more clearly, so I don't feel quite so dull and stupid all the time. o_O

Dang...*brainsplodes*
 

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That being said, it's not always roses. For some reason I find Se very weak with me as a whole...I am very unaware of my surroundings and heck I doubt I could tell you what the outside of our apartment building looks like once I leave it. And boy do I ever get lost if I don't have my much more aware partner with me.

Are you truly unaware of your surroundings or do you just quickly filter out the information on a subconscious level? I also won't be able to describe things in very much detail if it is some place I don't go to often because I just don't care that much. Though some general attributes do stick in memory and I can describe pretty well in details the outside of the house where I live no problem.

The thing about getting lost does sound like the former option for you, though. I may not pay much attention to my surroundings yet I don't get lost. -.-
 

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Are you truly unaware of your surroundings or do you just quickly filter out the information on a subconscious level? I also won't be able to describe things in very much detail if it is some place I don't go to often because I just don't care that much. Though some general attributes do stick in memory and I can describe pretty well in details the outside of the house where I live no problem.

The thing about getting lost does sound like the former option for you, though. I may not pay much attention to my surroundings yet I don't get lost. -.-
Hmm, I think some of it may be the fact that my mind is simply like a camera without film...it takes full interest of what's around me, but it doesn't register. So the second option I guess? Or I could just be the victim of an extremely horrible memory...most of the time in order to remember something, it has to trigger a feeling or remind me of something else I've experienced to fully register.
 
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Hmm, I think some of it may be the fact that my mind is simply like a camera without film...it takes full interest of what's around me, but it doesn't register. So the second option I guess? Or I could just be the victim of an extremely horrible memory...most of the time in order to remember something, it has to trigger a feeling or remind me of something else I've experienced to fully register.
ok, cool, I see what you mean. :)

as for memory... yeah, mine is weird too. I'm very spatial in general, and probably due to that my memory is the same way. I don't recall memories by smell or whatever else is supposedly common to other people, but I will readily recall a lot of memories by physical location/space. Like, I go around and I look at a specific location and I'll spontaneously remember something that happened there or whatever I was thinking of if nothing was happening.

I guess for you it's feelings that help remember then... funny.

Overall, I did notice before that it is really variable as to what helps people remember and recall. So I wouldn't claim you necessarily have a horrible memory, just needing its own kinds of cues.
 
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