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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'll start right off the bat and say that I do have feelz. Lots and lots of feelz. But not the convenient kind.
An ENTP my age should have developed Fe by now, but apparently I am a late bloomer. Fe undoubtedly has it's advantages, and I want that sweet sweet empathy, so I ask. I'm tired now. I'm tired of being called a psychopath, or blunt, or insensitive, or selfish. I'm tired of not connecting with people like everyone else can. I'm tired of making dick jokes in situations where dick jokes ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT BE MADE and not feeling shame for it (I'm secretly masochistic). I'm like the 30 year old guy who never hit puberty, and this shit's started to get lame.

So I'll cut right to the chase here: how do I develop my Fe? The healthy, prosperous, advantageous kind. As I stated above^, I do have the emotions down pat, and logically speaking, I have no problem putting myself in others' shoes, but only logically. I can't really feel sorry for people, or have friendships. Heck, maybe I'm schizoid. It's a very real possibility. But whatever.

Any suggestions?
 

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Birdie Borracho
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I'll start right off the bat and say that I do have feelz. Lots and lots of feelz. But not the convenient kind.
An ENTP my age should have developed Fe by now, but apparently I am a late bloomer. Fe undoubtedly has it's advantages, and I want that sweet sweet empathy, so I ask. I'm tired now. I'm tired of being called a psychopath, or blunt, or insensitive, or selfish. I'm tired of not connecting with people like everyone else can. I'm tired of making dick jokes in situations where dick jokes ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT BE MADE and not feeling shame for it (I'm secretly masochistic). I'm like the 30 year old guy who never hit puberty, and this shit's started to get lame.

So I'll cut right to the chase here: how do I develop my Fe? The healthy, prosperous, advantageous kind. As I stated above^, I do have the emotions down pat, and logically speaking, I have no problem putting myself in others' shoes, but only logically. I can't really feel sorry for people, or have friendships. Heck, maybe I'm schizoid. It's a very real possibility. But whatever.

Any suggestions?
You might just be a reluctant psychopath. Having cognitive empathy is the best that we can do. Don't beat yourself up too much. Be better at the cognitive level because at age 30 (I'm 27), we never developed real empathy, and probably never can. This can be an advantage in many scenarios as we can detach ourselves and provide truly objective analysis. So what if you'll never be a real boy, Pinnochio. Wood floats, and if you coat it with the right stuff, it won't won't burn.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You might just be a reluctant psychopath. Having cognitive empathy is the best that we can do. Don't beat yourself up too much. Be better at the cognitive level because at age 30 (I'm 27), we never developed real empathy, and probably never can. This can be an advantage in many scenarios as we can detach ourselves and provide truly objective analysis. So what if you'll never be a real boy, Pinnochio. Wood floats, and if you coat it with the right stuff, it won't won't burn.
But I don't wannaa...
No. I'm not a reluctant psychopath. I went through the "lol I'm just a psychopath lol" phase and it totally didn't stick. I do have some morals. Not many, but some. I'm sure the empathetic part of me is somewhere in there. Probably shoved up in a horse's ass, by my dad.
Example: I feel guilty stirrings when I do something wrong. Not all the time, and they're not too strong either, but they're there. Psychopaths don't feel guilt, but I certainly do.
 

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Birdie Borracho
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But I don't wannaa...
No. I'm not a reluctant psychopath. I went through the "lol I'm just a psychopath lol" phase and it totally didn't stick. I do have some morals. Not many, but some. I'm sure the empathetic part of me is somewhere in there. Probably shoved up in a horse's ass, by my dad.
Example: I feel guilty stirrings when I do something wrong. Not all the time, and they're not too strong either, but they're there. Psychopaths don't feel guilt, but I certainly do.
Well it's a spectrum. For me, it might be a fleeting feeling that goes away after a second. You don't have to be full blown, but I think feelings are like an onion. You can peel away the layers, until you have none, but you can't grow more layers. There comes a point where feelings are no longer repressed, but instead just barely exist. That is where I am and I accept it is irreparable. I don't beat myself up over it because it is what it is. Psycho is not the right term, but disempathetic socio as more fitting. Doesn't make you evil, just different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well it's a spectrum. For me, it might be a fleeting feeling that goes away after a second. You don't have to be full blown, but I think feelings are like an onion. You can peel away the layers, until you have none, but you can't grow more layers. There comes a point where feelings are no longer repressed, but instead just barely exist. That is where I am and I accept it is irreparable. I don't beat myself up over it because it is what it is. Psycho is not the right term, but disempathetic socio as more fitting. Doesn't make you evil, just different.
I'll admit here that I doubt I fully know what the term fully means, which is shit for knowing whether you fit said term or not. Could you help me figure it out if I'm psycho or not?
 

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Birdie Borracho
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I'll admit here that I doubt I fully know what the term fully means, which is shit for knowing whether you fit said term or not. Could you help me figure it out if I'm psycho or not?
Um I have no clue if you are. My strategy is to fling ideas around until the other person settles on one of those. Here is a suggestion of what you might be. From the alienated disempathetic subtype:

This individual is capable of emotional investment in his family, his mate or, perhaps, his dog, but has a constricted “circle of empathy” and reacts to most people only as objects. Although it is clear that, unlike most other mammals, our species is capable of empathy, capable of sharing to some extent the pain and the joy of other human beings and even other species, it is also clear that this capacity must be cultivated by experience. There are, moreover, wide individual differences in the breadth or inclusiveness of people’s circles of empathy. My wife shares the pain of all creatures from children, wolves, and elephants to ladybugs and spiders but human hunters, trappers, and most lawyers and politicians fall outside her circle of empathy. A child reared by parents who dislike animals as well as most of their neighbors is likely to have a constricted circle of empathy. When we are exposed too long and too often to stress and the suffering of others, most of us defensively constrict out empathic tendencies.

Read more Sociopath – Sociopathic Personality Disorder
Like I said, it is a spectrum, that I think a lot of TPs, in general, deal with. But there comes a point where emotional developments never happened and you wake up realizing "I'm a sociopath, aren't I." It's a more light version, and does not indicate being evil. I recgonize that I am on the extreme end of the spectrum to where I classify myself as a socio. If you had been asking the question for Fe at age 18, then we could work with you. In your 30s, it is unlikely that you will develop strong empathy.

As far as Fe being used as a social skill, I've learned to censor myself. I'll refrain from many dick jokes/inappropriate comments because I've learned to recognize social dynamics and I can see that my comments serve no utilitarian purpose. I don't refrain because I am emotionally concerned with offending someone, but rather that offending said person could hurt my social status within a group. Fe recognizes these scenarios and takes a diplomatic approach. Developing the feelz, however, might be out of the question for you. But I don't need to have the feelz, to be nice to other people. I've provided encouragement to people and helped them acheive dreams, because I was curious to see if I could. Does it matter what motivates me if the other person is able to personally grow? I cognitively recognize what morals are and I appreciate their importance. I am not bound by them, however, and having independence from judgment is my strongest 'value'.

If you can strongly relate to this, perhaps you are on the higher end of the spectrum.
 

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Birdie Borracho
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You might be able to relate to this too:

The Alienated Sociopath: The Disaffiliated Type

The absence of a nurturant parent during a critical period may prevent the development of the normal capacity for love and attachment that, as social animals, we all presumably possess. We know that children whose innate proclivity for language is not developed during the early years may never learn to speak and it seems likely that our native affiliative tendencies also require stimulation and reinforcement early in childhood. There are children who seldom or never have nurturant, loving, or happy interactions with other human beings or whose approaches to their parent are unpredictably punished so that they become extinguished. Such a child will not develop the prosocial components of socialization and their inability to relate emotionally to other people makes his or her adult adjustment problematic. This incapacity for fellow-feeling may be as intractable as any innate defect of temperament, yet I classify such people as sociopaths rather than as psychopaths because their condition can be prevented in the same way that other forms of sociopathy could be prevented, by reducing the frequency of non-nurturant, incompetent parents.

Read more Sociopath – Sociopathic Personality Disorder
People hear sociopath and they think serial killer. That type of misinformation is why people are so reluctant to pursue the truth about themselves, or they latch on the sociopath label in order to develop self-esteem.
 

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Put yourself in more situations with people you could actually like or respect.
 

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Empathy and Sympathy both involve understanding another's position, pain, whatever, but Sympathy is more doing something about it and investing in another person, more on the compassion side.

It's late, and not 100% sure on this, but I believe serial killers can have empathy, understand another's pain, they just don't care. But I could be a tad off with that.
 

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So I'll cut right to the chase here: how do I develop my Fe?
Take drugs.

Dont you ever express your emotional state? Fe is all about not being so introverted, be more animated or agile with your expressions.
 

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I believe a lot of empathic traits can be learned. Here is a small list of things that might work:


Put yourself, mentally, in the shoes of another person. Try to simulate how you would feel in whatever situation he is going through.

Look at faces, try to figure out what emotions they express. This can be done on internet tests.

Do compassion meditation.

Pay attention to what others do. What is “in” or “out” at the moment? What is proper or improper? How should you reciprocate friendly or unfriendly gestures in the best manner?

Pay attention to the emotional atmosphere of a crowd. How are you all feeling? Imagine that emotions are auras of others that you can let consume you.

Find someone in your vicinity who is an INTP. Make a list of 15 things he does that really aren't normal.

When talking to someone, try to think of what they would want to hear to feel good. Make yourself comfortable company for them

Become a teacher for kindergarteners or older students and make them behave. You should quickly realize where Fe is in your functional stack after this.
 
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I'll start right off the bat and say that I do have feelz. Lots and lots of feelz. But not the convenient kind.
An ENTP my age should have developed Fe by now, but apparently I am a late bloomer. Fe undoubtedly has it's advantages, and I want that sweet sweet empathy, so I ask. I'm tired now. I'm tired of being called a psychopath, or blunt, or insensitive, or selfish. I'm tired of not connecting with people like everyone else can. I'm tired of making dick jokes in situations where dick jokes ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT BE MADE and not feeling shame for it (I'm secretly masochistic). I'm like the 30 year old guy who never hit puberty, and this shit's started to get lame.

So I'll cut right to the chase here: how do I develop my Fe? The healthy, prosperous, advantageous kind. As I stated above^, I do have the emotions down pat, and logically speaking, I have no problem putting myself in others' shoes, but only logically. I can't really feel sorry for people, or have friendships. Heck, maybe I'm schizoid. It's a very real possibility. But whatever.

Any suggestions?
Apply logic to how you interpret people in addition to embracing your cumbersome feels. No, seriously-- I had massive problems with social interaction in my teens. Things got a lot better when I started paying attention to what people were communicating with their nonverbal cues, which I'd previously ignored because I was too fascinated with my own brain. But that's something you can also logic your way into: figure out the how -- shifty eyes can mean one thing, standing in an aggressive pose with arms crossed another -- and the why is not far behind. I was convinced in my late teens that I can't be neurotypical because I had so much trouble with getting on the same wave length with people... but really all that took was practice. Empathy is something you get better at as you work at it, unless you're a budding sociopath. Which I doubt, if you were you wouldn't be complaining about your lack of connection to other human beings or feeling shame over your perceived social faux pas.

And find people who can appreciate your bluntness and weirdness. So, you're not sensitive. Great, neither am I. But I do emote intensely and I can, after a fashion, empathise with people. There's nothing wrong with taking a more logical approach to problem solving or living your life, you'll just have to acknowledge and understand that not everybody is like this.
 

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I have the same problem dude, and I'm even older than you.

Why just today I was called on the carpet for writing "WTF" at work. Apparently the rest of the world somehow is able to intuit that it's not appropriate to use those three letters in that exact sequence at work...but not Kipposhi.

At least our Fe-awkwardness didn't spark a World War, unlike Kaiser Wilhelm (I was reading that today). Take heart. Some ENTPs have it worse than us.

Anyway, when I was about 24, I realized I was horribly behind socially and universally avoided, so I made it an effort to observe what Normal People do when interacting.

I observed, deconstructed, drew out the principles of "correct behavior" and formed this mental "code" of conduct based on my findings. I got used to practicing it in online forums and chats where there's a lag and you have time to fix your gaffes. Then I moved on to practicing it with customers at work. Then entire conversations. It felt totally phony at first, but becomes second nature after awhile.

It takes a couple of years, but it's worth it.

Even now, my Fe-usage feels like an ersatz replacement for actual social skills. You eventually have to face the fact that you have your limitations in addition to all your natural powers of awesome. You'll always default to Ti > Fe, but you can also always improve.

Good luck.
 

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Find a feeler and do you best to understand them and make them feel comfortable around you. No usual ENTP stuff. Make them talk and really listen. Just make it all about them - try to analyze what they really mean/ need to hear even though they don't say it out loud. What validation they need, why you are making them uncomfortable.

Can be really exhausting though
 
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