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I used Windows paint to draw what I was reading about how type 3 interacts with the world.

Is this accurate?

The left hand stick figures are others, the middle image is the 3's image they are trying to present, and the figure on the right is the 3. The arrows represent information collection. I have the 3 perceiving both the image and others, and gauging the image based on their estimations of what others are thinking.
 

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Upon some reflection- yeah. It looks about right for what the image is conveying.

I'd argue that the ideal self is more of a suit than a mirage, though- but I'm not sure how you would illustrate that.

A suit that's also a mold, that, you know.
 

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I used Windows paint to draw what I was reading about how type 3 interacts with the world.

Is this accurate?

The left hand stick figures are others, the middle image is the 3's image they are trying to present, and the figure on the right is the 3. The arrows represent information collection. I have the 3 perceiving both the image and others, and gauging the image based on their estimations of what others are thinking.
ROFL

I did something similar. Except not as elaborate:

 

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Sorry for being clueless, but can you explain what your image means?
Sure! That image is pretty much a synthesis of a lot of things I've read/experienced/understood, so I will try my best to keep my summary short:

  • Type three's basic desire is to be valuable. But on top of that, the image center fundamentally deals with "meaning" or "value", like "what is the meaning/value of life?" kinds of questions.
  • The image center has the spatial perspective. The head center has the temporal perspective. So the question is "where" instead of "when". (The "who" question is a very special case that concerns both the head and image center but in different ways.)
  • Summarizing the enneagram:
    • Type fives fear the external world. Type sevens fear their internal world. Type sixes fear both the internal and external world, and they over-identify with the boundaries of certainty.
    • Type twos value external value/meaning (hint: superego). Type fours value internal value/meaning (they over-identify with shame). Type threes value the surface, the face value, which is also the boundary.
    • Type eights focus on external boundaries. Type ones focus on internal boundaries (inner critic/superego). Type nines focus on anything except at the boundary.
  • Therefore:
    • 2-5-8 have a relationship with the external world. Hence power-seeking triad.
    • 1-4-7 have a relationship with the internal world. Hence frustration triad.
    • 3-6-9 have a relationship with the boundary between the internal and external world. The body is the literal boundary between those worlds.
  • In terms of the image triad:
    • Twos are associated with "how can I help you?", which means their focus is external to themselves. They feel loved and validated by external eyes.
    • Fours are associated with "depth" of meaning, which is inside the boundary of themselves/the object. Deeply feeling shame and withdrawing from the world.
    • Threes have the best of both worlds, where their "defect" is that they "can't" know themselves without external eyes.
And I thought the comparison was hilarious, because the OP's picture had like a boundary of their persona (defined by both what he's projecting and what he calculates the feedback is) (I studied engineering, and he symbolically depicted a closed-loop feedback system, but some of the arrows need to point back at the three), where-as for me, I just filled it in with the perspective of the rest of the image triad (developed eights's perspective is more like a hologram technique).
 

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Sure! That image is pretty much a synthesis of a lot of things I've read/experienced/understood, so I will try my best to keep my summary short:
[*]In terms of the image triad:
  • Twos are associated with "how can I help you?", which means their focus is external to themselves. They feel loved and validated by external eyes.
  • Fours are associated with "depth" of meaning, which is inside the boundary of themselves/the object. Deeply feeling shame and withdrawing from the world.
  • Threes have the best of both worlds, where their "defect" is that they "can't" know themselves without external eyes.
Thanks! That was kind of confusing at first since I'm not that well versed about the other enneagrams or the triads, but your explanation helped a lot. I can see the difference between 2 3 and 4 more clearly now. You’re right on how three is the best of both worlds, but now I realize it’s also the worst of both worlds. I love how I can be confident about myself yet still am empathetic towards others. Unfortunately I’m generally a push over as well and many times just please others before myself. Yet I can be arrogant and secluded at times which scares off people.

Is there any way I can minimize the negatives of my external/internal sides yet still keep the positives? I want to be confident and not such a push-over but I also want to stay benevolent and care about others. Or is it more so a give and take thing. Such as the more 2 type I have, the less 4 type I have – so I can never truly have both at once without suffering the consequences of the both. That’s depressing to think about. That means if I want to be more confident I also have to become a meaner person? Jeez… guess I have to start giving up more of my 2 wing if I ever want to truly become my own person.

Now I get why I chose my signature image. It's vulgar but I don't care if it offends conservative people, as I'm personally pleased by it - which displays my 4 type. Yet it's still pretty funny/cute so I still want to please others whom see it - hence my 2 type. 4 + 2 = 3. It's so clear to me now... Thanks haha.
 

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Thanks! That was kind of confusing at first since I'm not that well versed about the other enneagrams or the triads, but your explanation helped a lot. I can see the difference between 2 3 and 4 more clearly now. You’re right on how three is the best of both worlds, but now I realize it’s also the worst of both worlds. I love how I can be confident about myself yet still am empathetic towards others. Unfortunately I’m generally a push over as well and many times just please others before myself. Yet I can be arrogant and secluded at times which scares off people.
Well, you know what they say! Can't have the best of both worlds without the worst of both worlds. Or "no pain, no gain"! The Spiritual Enneagram: Type Three - Sacred Confidence :happy:

Is there any way I can minimize the negatives of my external/internal sides yet still keep the positives? I want to be confident and not such a push-over but I also want to stay benevolent and care about others. Or is it more so a give and take thing. Such as the more 2 type I have, the less 4 type I have – so I can never truly have both at once without suffering the consequences of the both. That’s depressing to think about. That means if I want to be more confident I also have to become a meaner person? Jeez… guess I have to start giving up more of my 2 wing if I ever want to truly become my own person.
Yes. The difficulty for type threes (and nines, especially) is that a major and necessary ingredient is introspection/meditation/self-inspection, independent from external eyes. Essentially, they would have to overcome their "defect" and be able to see themselves objectively. Personally, when I need to visit this area, I spend some time quietly in front of a large vanity mirror.

Enneagram growth is not a "winner take all" or a "mutually exclusive" option. We all have all nine types within us, and the goal is to develop all nine types within us. Here are some pictures from Susan Rhode's "The Integral Enneagram" (pages 227-228). Sorry for the awkward camera quality; I don't have an easy-to-access scanner.



Some notes about horizontal growth:
  • The main goal is to develop the points and the lines
    • If you noticed in the third image (the "connecting points" one), the circumferential arc between points 3 and 4 is not filled in. It is filled in for 2 and 3 though.
    • I can personally say that, for me, the 3-4 arc is filled in. I have decent access to my point two, but not yet "continuously" such that the gap in the arc between 2-3 is filled.
  • The internal (dis/integration lines) can be used
    • Integration and disintegration happen in both directions
    • Not all lines are visible in the default symbol.
      • There are additional lines connecting 4<->7 and 2<->5 (Blake, The Intelligent Enneagram, page 323), but it takes a lot of personal growth/spiritual development to have access to it
  • Movement around the circumference is possible



Vertical growth is more like the health levels from Riso/Hudson's works. Except you'll have a meter for all the types you've managed to identify and develop.

Now I get why I chose my signature image. It's vulgar but I don't care if it offends conservative people, as I'm personally pleased by it - which displays my 4 type. Yet it's still pretty funny/cute so I still want to please others whom see it - hence my 2 type. 4 + 2 = 3. It's so clear to me now... Thanks haha.
Glad I can help! :happy:
 

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@cir

Ahh I see now. I don't actually give up any of my points but rather can only grow all points. I also realized that 4 doesn't really play a role in confidence but 8 is more so the primary confidence type - sorry for my earlier amateur mistake. That means if I want to become more confident I have to focus on developing my 8 type. Too bad my 8 is underdeveloped... shit.

Okay let me think this through.

So type 8 is the confident/domineering type which is what I'm seeking. It is primarily connected to type 9/7 and secondarily connected to 5/2.

Let's split the 100% progression for type 8 into 9 +7 = 66% and 5 + 2 = 33%. Given that 9/7 has double the influence on type 8 than 5/2 does.

To reach my 8 destination I have to grow these four more:

9: I have to become more accepting/trusting of people. Already there. Thus, fully developed 9 = +33% progression towards 8.

7: I have to become more extroverted, optimistic, versatile, and spontaneous. Already really optimistic/versatile/spontaneous. But currently developing my extroversion. So 3/4 through 7 = +25% progression.

2: I have to become more empathetic, sincere, and warm-hearted. Already there. +17% progression.

5: I have to become more alert, insightful, and curious. Already very curious. But developing my insight/alertness at a very fast pace right now. +10% progression.

Awesome, I'm already 85% the way there towards growing my 8! No wonder I'm yearning at this very moment to become more confident - because it's the next step in my Enneagram growth! ;O

Also it looks like I found my problem in the remaining 15%. I have to socialize with more people and become more aware of my surroundings/others. Easy peasy- I'm already enjoying developing these traits right now! Thanks for the Enneagram lesson - I hope to find my new-found confidence very soon! :)
 

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@cir

Ahh I see now. I don't actually give up any of my points but rather can only grow all points. I also realized that 4 doesn't really play a role in confidence but 8 is more so the primary confidence type - sorry for my earlier amateur mistake. That means if I want to become more confident I have to focus on developing my 8 type. Too bad my 8 is underdeveloped... shit.
The thing is, eights, above all else, have unconditional trust in their own perception. (Their Holy Idea is Holy Truth.) When it comes to interpreting situations, eights feel that it is faster and more accurate if they evaluate the situations themselves. It takes a effort (depending on health) for them to be open to other people's input.

Okay let me think this through.

So type 8 is the confident/domineering type which is what I'm seeking. It is primarily connected to type 9/7 and secondarily connected to 5/2.

Let's split the 100% progression for type 8 into 9 +7 = 66% and 5 + 2 = 33%. Given that 9/7 has double the influence on type 8 than 5/2 does.
Mmmm... not quite. :happy: 100% progression for type eight is measured by how much of all of the other types they've developed.
Rhodes said:
Point 8 and Type 8. The processes described at Point 8 are quite similar to the qualities associated with Type 8. Strong, powerful, and naturally dominant, Eights are the type that are innately well-suited to embody all the qualities at each point on the enneagram. But they are also the type that has the most troubles balancing their energy or acknowledging their appreciation for others. So the goal is always to develop their skills in a way designed to support people instead of dominate them. Well-balanced Eights realize that all mastery is ultimately self-mastery and have an highly developed sense of personal honor. They realize the importance of cultivating not only outer qualities such as leadership, but inner qualities, such as tenderness (8->2) and the ability to reflect deeply (8->5).
So if you want 100% type eight, you would have to 100% the enneagram. Not just the points, but also the lines too, because according to the Blake's The Intelligent Enneagram, the dis/integration lines originate from point eight, and mastery of those lines happen at point eight. And since everyone has all nine types within them... :happy: Triangle types have an "easier" access to all nine type than hexad types (triangle types don't have to travel as often), so you got that going for you!

[HR][/HR]
To reach my 8 destination I have to grow these four more:

9: I have to become more accepting/trusting of people. Already there. Thus, fully developed 9 = +33% progression towards 8.

7: I have to become more extroverted, optimistic, versatile, and spontaneous. Already really optimistic/versatile/spontaneous. But currently developing my extroversion. So 3/4 through 7 = +25% progression.

2: I have to become more empathetic, sincere, and warm-hearted. Already there. +17% progression.

5: I have to become more alert, insightful, and curious. Already very curious. But developing my insight/alertness at a very fast pace right now. +10% progression.
Alternatively, if you develop six and nine, you'll also have potential access to all of the other types, including eight. :happy: In type three terms, it's like developing nine masks, genuine to your experiences, that you could alternate depending on circumstances, and nine masks make a whole set!

Awesome, I'm already 85% the way there towards growing my 8! No wonder I'm yearning at this very moment to become more confident - because it's the next step in my Enneagram growth! ;O

Also it looks like I found my problem in the remaining 15%. I have to socialize with more people and become more aware of my surroundings/others. Easy peasy- I'm already enjoying developing these traits right now! Thanks for the Enneagram lesson - I hope to find my new-found confidence very soon! :)
You really can't develop other types until you've sufficiently developed your own type first though! :wink: Threes have such a huge untapped potential, that idealizing other types could possibly delay your own growth. Idealizing type eight means you're overlooking the primary power of point/type three's dynamism based on objective reality.

Since you're a Three, and I would have to wait forever until a "real Three" talks about this, here are some things to think about:
  • Type Three has the power of personas (Chestnut, The Complete Enneagram)
  • Holy Law, type three's most important Holy Idea, concerns the development of the soul.
    • Timeless's article on type three focuses on Holy Hope, but my perspective is more from Holy Law.
  • Point three is also a shock point of the enneagram.
Good luck!
 

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Alternatively, if you develop six and nine, you'll also have potential access to all of the other types, including eight. Idolizing other types could possibly delay your own growth. Idolizing type eight means you're overlooking the primary power of point/type three's dynamism based on objective reality.
Wow, I never really thought of growth in terms of the triangle. I see now that since I have much easier access to points 3,6,9 than others, I have to focus on these points first if I want to grow in my other points. Now that I think of it my 6 is way underdeveloped compared to my 3 and 9, no wonder I’m having so much trouble with my 8. Well time to work on being more trustworthy, hardworking, and responsible – this sure is going to take a lot of sweat and effort. Thank you so much for your help and patience!
 
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