Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Did you meet someone that said to you 'you didn't understand me at all'?

It's something paradoxically and weird but it happened to me XD

A friend said to me, when he was speaking about the girl who falled in love, and I express my opinion (requested by him) on her behaviour whith him and he was totally disagree (strongly and using a lot of logic and reasonable facts, no feelings) XD

He rationalized all and started to say that i took the wrong way about her.

I remained on my opinion and I closed my mouth forever about it. Few days ago they broke the relationship exactly for the reasons that I have explained in the first sharing.

I'm the only INFJ that had this exeperience, or it happens to someoneelse? And, if I can ask, in which case?

In your opinion, why it happens? It depends by something specific? Or not?

I'm curious :happy:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
Did you meet someone that said to you 'you didn't understand me at all'?
Of course, but it always lead to:

...exactly for the reasons that I have explained in the first sharing.
Don't expect people to come back and say "oh hey, you were right all along" because it rarely happens :bwink:

In your opinion, why it happens? It depends by something specific? Or not?
Some people ask for your opinion and then dismiss it because they don't like what they hear. Their expectations are already firmly established even before they approach you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,970 Posts
yes exact same scenario really
my friend ranting about her boyfriend... i explained maybe what was going on.. then she made excuses and said "oh i understand where he's coming from he's just *XYZ excuse*".... few days later she's back to complaining about the same thing and im just... well you don't want my advice you just want to take your own lol.

she keeps coming back to me but still not taking my advice..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,858 Posts
No. It's never happened to me before.

I have had people refute my readings of them, only to agree sometime later, even if it is years later. But I've never had someone tell me I just fail to understand or get them - I get the people in my life better than anyone else.

Basically, I agree with your scenario entirely. Only time it ever happens, I'm proven correct later anyway. So I don't feel the need to desperately get someone to see that I'm correct. Often times, especially in a failing romance, they know I am right, it just hurts to admit it. But I can see its failure from a mile away. I wouldn't say it if I thought it could be saved - if I thought that, I'd give advice on how to save it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,566 Posts
It's happened once before, and I suspect they were saying it only to be stubbornly defensive because I really did understand them. I'm not always right by any means, nor do I think I can understand everyone in the world. But I still get strong feelings about people or situations that are hard to ignore. I've learned to keep certain insights or "peeks into the future" to myself because people reject them ("how can you think that will happen with such little evidence?", etc), they don't see how it will play out, or they're not as preoccupied with the future as me. To some people, it's simply not important for them to know, so I don't say anything. I've also noticed that telling people I suspect x or z might happen, they're quick to turn contrary towards it for the sake of it. Unless someone asks me directly what I think, I'm quiet.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
@Shodan I don't expect nothing, really... and I hate to be right when things are bad (like in this case).
@JennyJukes Yes this is only an example. Sometimes it happens to me with people that are not well related with their feelings, or that are really rational and don't let themselfs to feel emotions :rolleyes:
@lavendersnow I don't search approval from others (I mean, strictly). I need only to help them, specially my closer friends. @Faery He asked me about it... but than he started to be very defensive.

I think that he is too proud to say me something about his errors or wrong choices. He speaks to me carefully avoid to say that he is wrong in something: he is always the best. Not only with me, with all the people.

I think that he was really convinced about his positions, but he is really rational. I don't think he knows how and when he is angry, or sad, or nostalgic, or happy, etc. He just feels these emotions and than goes around to do things and satisfate them in some way (good or not good, the important is that the feel he doesn't understand pass away).

I think depends by people :rolleyes:


Ok, so I think the question could be: how do you behave with people that don't understand (or don't want understanding...) their feelings IF they ask you a council? Do you try to help them at the same, with your assertiveness, or try to be not so direct?

I know a lot of boys that are like 'men that haven't to ask never' and sometimes I really don't know what kind of action I should do to don't hurt them XD

Thanks a lot for your replies :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
Ok, so I think the question could be: how do you behave with people that don't understand (or don't want understanding...) their feelings IF they ask you a council? Do you try to help them at the same, with your assertiveness, or try to be not so direct?

I know a lot of boys that are like 'men that haven't to ask never' and sometimes I really don't know what kind of action I should do to don't hurt them XD
What do you mean by 'men that haven't to ask never'?

The thing is, there will always be people who 'give' you something to read into but then pull the rug from under your feet; they'll tell you exactly what's going on but their minds have already made up this idea that you can't be right or that no one can understand them. Their very identity revolves in being above or different from everyone else.

Just listen and ask them to elaborate, if they're still defensive and biting, it's more likely their insecurities trying to keep you away from getting close to them.

Back onto the original topic instead of vague counselling stuff:

There are two kinds of people/sides to this when it comes to counselling, the kind that will special snowflake the fuck out of you and those that will jump at people who will listen and 'conform' themselves to whatever the other person is saying; luckily most people aren't too far into either and unluckily most people have traits of both depending on the topic, infatuated people are pretty damn sensitive, obsessive and possessive.

When people are angry or they get angry because something is different than what they want they seek control over things, usually people and make very strong judgements; when he disagreed with your opinion after asking, I think he just wanted to laud himself over you and convince himself, you were just so perfectly right in front of him.

When to be assertive, when to listen quitely, when to guide gently, I'm sure you know better than us as you're the only one who can see everything.

Sometimes people really don't give you an option not to hurt them, they corner themselves so that they have an effect on other people and feel important themselves. Some people with low self esteem will do this constantly in subtle ways.

But yeah, relationship advice, I try not to =P
You either try to follow their train of thought, enthusiasm and conversation or you're screwed. That is unless they're literally telling you it's a bad relationship, it gets more complicated then.
 
Joined
·
9,999 Posts
Sure, relatively often.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
@zKyuu

It's only something that we say in Italy: 'men that haven't to ask' are people (mostly men but women too) that are always right, have all under their control and don't need to justify their mistakes. If their are wrong maybe they think it, but never, never say to the others. Just go on with the life.

Written in this way is something really really bad (if you think that someone has a really superior attitude with other people) but often is someone that wants to think with his or her head even against the evidence (or at least they don't show humbleness).

I think you are really right in what are you saying.

In this special case I was hurted to him because I thought that he could understand that i wasn't manipulating him, only try to help. But it's ok, at the same. If he needs distance he will have it.

when you say: Sometimes people really don't give you an option not to hurt them, they corner themselves so that they have an effect on other people and feel important themselves. Some people with low self esteem will do this constantly in subtle ways.

You took the point.
In these cases I fight with myself because of my nature, I feel like someone is putting limits on me and is tying my hands. No way to act in 'good manner', only in manipulative way (I dislike it, it's not my way to do things) or acting on other people, but only if the situation is very dangerous or difficult.

I remain with the sensation to stay sitted and only look like spectator that things happens. It's a bad sensation for me, especially if I really love people that prevent my actions.

For this reason I asked what do you do in these cases, because I feel really bad and I don't know how to feel better in some way... I always feel like 'I could do more'.

Thanks a lot for other councils, I'll take like precious :tongue:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
In these cases I fight with myself because of my nature, I feel like someone is putting limits on me and is tying my hands. No way to act in 'good manner', only in manipulative way (I dislike it, it's not my way to do things) or acting on other people, but only if the situation is very dangerous or difficult.

I remain with the sensation to stay sitted and only look like spectator that things happens. It's a bad sensation for me, especially if I really love people that prevent my actions.

For this reason I asked what do you do in these cases, because I feel really bad and I don't know how to feel better in some way... I always feel like 'I could do more'.
Love and care are dangerous toys to give out.

The only way in which I've learnt to tolerate it is to not tolerate it, call them out on it and if they respect you at all they'll try to understand how it's making you feel and stop doing it, maybe not all at once but at least less. A lot of people will just make baseless excuses for their actions and blame you for it though, it takes a few tries with different people to start to tell apart those that return love, respect and care with pain and those that don't mean to but don't know any better.

It could also be that culture there allows for it, which might be a bigger issue =(

I think it's a pretty common INFJ problem, we can cater so much to the other person wracking our brains for the perfect words to say but some will just see that and take advantage of it for a sense of control.

I tend to distance myself from these people if I can't be upfront with them, you don't have to do more than the other person does for you, all relationships should at minimum be respectful and mutual; why be in any kind of relationship, friends, romantic, family etc. if both people aren't on equal standing? You'll end up giving till there's nothing left and they'll do nothing but keep on taking.

I only started doing these things when I learnt to respect myself and my wishes as much as or more than I do others. I still enjoy helping people out of the blue and for nothing in return but I do it because I enjoy it and would like to and not for anyone to take advantage of.

I'll bring cookies, cake, food and drinks to social events and generally be nice but I can quite clearly see those that are more interested in building a relationship with me so they can 'take' things from me rather than be interested in 'me'.
The line "Do not mistake my kindness for weakness" applies quite well in these situations, people who take advantage of kindness without any kind sincerity usually lack a respectfulness for other people boundaries, thoughts, choices, feelings etc. they're not people I enjoy being around so why should I place myself around them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,858 Posts
@Shodan I don't expect nothing, really... and I hate to be right when things are bad (like in this case).
@JennyJukes Yes this is only an example. Sometimes it happens to me with people that are not well related with their feelings, or that are really rational and don't let themselfs to feel emotions :rolleyes:
@lavendersnow I don't search approval from others (I mean, strictly). I need only to help them, specially my closer friends. @Faery He asked me about it... but than he started to be very defensive.

I think that he is too proud to say me something about his errors or wrong choices. He speaks to me carefully avoid to say that he is wrong in something: he is always the best. Not only with me, with all the people.

I think that he was really convinced about his positions, but he is really rational. I don't think he knows how and when he is angry, or sad, or nostalgic, or happy, etc. He just feels these emotions and than goes around to do things and satisfate them in some way (good or not good, the important is that the feel he doesn't understand pass away).

I think depends by people :rolleyes:


Ok, so I think the question could be: how do you behave with people that don't understand (or don't want understanding...) their feelings IF they ask you a council? Do you try to help them at the same, with your assertiveness, or try to be not so direct?

I know a lot of boys that are like 'men that haven't to ask never' and sometimes I really don't know what kind of action I should do to don't hurt them XD

Thanks a lot for your replies :D
I've only ever had one super bad reaction from me telling someone how I thought they were feeling on the inside. I don't remember my exact words, but I do remember their reaction was explosive because this person lack introspection so much that they were never able, in the entire relationship, able to decipher their own feelings until loads of time had passed from them feeling them. It was bizarre. So if you told him, an obviously angry person he was angry, he vehemently deny that he was - there's nothing to be gained from trying to council someone like that.

Some people don't want help and they are entitled to say so - even if we feel we know best. Some however, deal better with being subtly influenced than blatantly told what you're up to.

You cannot force your reading onto someone, they will not take it unless they have come to believe you're in a position where your word matters. This person who rejected my reading of him believed he was superior to me in every way, no amount of force would have ever changed his mind.

Though I am completely unsure by what you mean by: "'men that haven't to ask never'"
 
Joined
·
9,999 Posts
Ok, so I think the question could be: how do you behave with people that don't understand (or don't want understanding...) their feelings IF they ask you a council? Do you try to help them at the same, with your assertiveness, or try to be not so direct?
Smile, shrug and focus on something I'm actually interested in. Like a book.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Privy

·
Banned
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
@zKyuu I know what are you saying, I will try to do it.
But for me to limit myself in support others is really difficult (in this moment, maybe I can be better; for sure if I apply myself), I feel bad phisically.

Like before, I will keep your word like precious. Thanks a lot <3

@lavendersnow "'men that haven't to ask never'"

It's only something that we say in Italy: 'men that haven't to ask' are people (mostly men but women too) that are always right, have all under their control and don't need to justify their mistakes. If their are wrong maybe they think it, but never, never say to the others. Just go on with the life.

You said:
Some however, deal better with being subtly influenced than blatantly told what you're up to. -> How to do it without to feel manipulative?
I say things gently, but I usually tend to don't hide the truth.

You cannot force your reading onto someone, they will not take it unless they have come to believe you're in a position where your word matters. This person who rejected my reading of him believed he was superior to me in every way, no amount of force would have ever changed his mind. -> Exactly he was. You understood well.

@speedy2056 He is an ENFP, we did the test together. I don't know enneagram, but I can see the narcissistic details in him.

@Marv :tongue: I have to try this! In front of him, maybe... only to see how he replies :th_jtteglad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,858 Posts
@zKyuu I know what are you saying, I will try to do it.
But for me to limit myself in support others is really difficult (in this moment, maybe I can be better; for sure if I apply myself), I feel bad phisically.

Like before, I will keep your word like precious. Thanks a lot <3

@lavendersnow "'men that haven't to ask never'"

It's only something that we say in Italy: 'men that haven't to ask' are people (mostly men but women too) that are always right, have all under their control and don't need to justify their mistakes. If their are wrong maybe they think it, but never, never say to the others. Just go on with the life.

You said:
Some however, deal better with being subtly influenced than blatantly told what you're up to. -> How to do it without to feel manipulative?
I say things gently, but I usually tend to don't hide the truth.

You cannot force your reading onto someone, they will not take it unless they have come to believe you're in a position where your word matters. This person who rejected my reading of him believed he was superior to me in every way, no amount of force would have ever changed his mind. -> Exactly he was. You understood well.

@speedy2056 He is an ENFP, we did the test together. I don't know enneagram, but I can see the narcissistic details in him.

@Marv :tongue: I have to try this! In front of him, maybe... only to see how he replies :th_jtteglad:
I've never heard of that phrase before but it sounds like it sums up, incredibly well, how both my father and a few other men I have met behave.

I don't think it is a gender thing, only that these people have presented that kind of attitude. Even when you see they know on the inside that they are wrong, they'll either still fight publicly that they are right to save face or will be dismissive which is incredibly annoying because there's an unspoken understanding that they know they're talking absolute nonsense.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I've never heard of that phrase before but it sounds like it sums up, incredibly well, how both my father and a few other men I have met behave.

I don't think it is a gender thing, only that these people have presented that kind of attitude. Even when you see they know on the inside that they are wrong, they'll either still fight publicly that they are right to save face or will be dismissive which is incredibly annoying because there's an unspoken understanding that they know they're talking absolute nonsense.
Yes, you took it.

Here in Italy we have a lot of 'motto', 'way to say', and figurative speak. I think this is an old one, maybe really bound with older models of society, with women that has to speak with not direct methods to their husbands, or men generally. But today we use in figurative sense, like a person, gender will go in second place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Yeah, ENFP 6w5 sp/so.

Keeps insisting I'm misreading him but I know I'm not. He's scared to death of me. And when I try to tell him the truth about certain things about me he refuses to accept. Difficult to fully connect with him (I think it's because of our instinctual stacking naturally repelling one another). Love this guy to death anyways. Good, gentle heart.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,564 Posts
Yeah, ENFP 6w5 sp/so.

Keeps insisting I'm misreading him but I know I'm not. He's scared to death of me. And when I try to tell him the truth about certain things about me he refuses to accept. Difficult to fully connect with him (I think it's because of our instinctual stacking naturally repelling one another). Love this guy to death anyways. Good, gentle heart.
This is interesting. As an INFJ 4w5 so/sx, I have an ENFP 6w5 sp/so friend too and she keeps saying nobody reads her like I do. Perhaps it comes down to life experiences, gender dynamics, whatnot. Idk. I had somehow had the thought that similar enneagram would result in similar dynamics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RedParaglider

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,942 Posts
Not really. I tend to shy away from saying things to people that they might take offence to (even when they really should hear it tbh).

I'm sure I'll get my share though once I have kids ;)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
59 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
@antipaola Yes, for me it's the same. I really like him and I continue to share with him good moments. But I can't be a good consuelor for him because I didn't want to ear NO-ONE. :rolleyes:
@Kirjuri Yes, I've said this in other posts, it depends by people and their behaviours. I'm not saying that all ENFP are in this way, but he is.
@Drecon He asked me, so... I gave him my council. I didn't go around to give 'random councils' (lol) :proud: I've opened this post because I didn't really know how to help someone that asks to me and then doesn't want to hear a reply different from the one he wanted hear by me :rolleyes:
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top