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Wow :) nice descriptions guys.

I can relate a lot to feeling inferior to others and having self image problems that are "in my head". I compensate for that which can feel depressing at times. Being criticized makes these worse. I did however notice not long ago that it is mostly in my head and should ignore it. It's been working lately and have regained confidence through that. I think mainly because the opposite of what I thought about myself has been shown to me.

Btw I detach from feeling too much when I'm confronted with a situation where another person is having an emotional breakdown. I understand what is happening to that person, where it is coming from and what I need to do :\...but I don't feel together with that person. The feelings rush in later when I allow them to or by that time they have dissipated. I feel very strongly thou when it comes to my own feelings and base decisions with those in mind. Have been looking at the INTP description due to this but it doesn't resonate much with me *sigh*.

Could this be a type 5 thing or it is just the huge amount of stress I'm under most of the time?
stress is in your mind.
you are not under stress. you are stress. when you know that, maybe you won't stress as much.
haha idk. i guess i don't agree to that 100%.. but you should never be under a "huge amount of stress most of the time". how old are you, btw?? jw so i can try to figure out why you choose to be under a "huge amount of stress most of the time."


and to the bold, I relate. i basically hallucinate what others are meaning or thinking.
idk how to explain it right now, but basically I feel like the intensity within me is on my sleeve and people realize just how x, y, or z i am at any given time.
such as being socially awkward for instance. i read too far into things.
If i'm by myself, it's better. but if i'm with someone else, it's like my intense self-absorption has to be put into check, and this isn't always comfortable/desired.

which is why i'm glad my gf deals with me so well. she's very helpful for taking up the slack when i'm stuck in my moods.
i literally kept saying I hate my life last night over something i lost worth 20$ (that I couldn't replace.)
even after she found it, I hung on to the mood for like 15 minutes.. a new wave of contentment finally washed over me, though. i just had to get out of that mood..

ima reply more to the main thread eventually
 

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stress is in your mind.
you are not under stress. you are stress. when you know that, maybe you won't stress as much.
o.o how old are you? I'm 24 and I can tell you now quarter life crisis is not a joke in today's economy.
 

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o.o how old are you? I'm 24 and I can tell you now quarter life crisis is not a joke in today's economy.
i'm 18.
i live on my own with my gf.
we met another couple we're living with..
For me, the stress is 80%+ caused by them.. they're dirty and they are over 24 years old. I'm 18 but they're the ones who need to grow up. they leave the kitchen dirty for over a week straight (dishes we never used.. they won't clean up after guests and leave food out for days..) one of them doesn't even have a job lol so what's his excuse? just mentally unhealthy. shit gets pretty stressful cuz i'm paying for shitty living conditions. they told us when we moved in they'd move to the other bathroom RIGHT across the hall from them. but, if anything, it's dirtier now than when we moved in. so i guess we'll keep sharing this tiny ass bathroom with them.. yay. i love it when they share our towels too :)

he's always like "yah i'm slacking on cleaning the kitchen.. i'm going to do that today". he'll say that multiple days in a row.
hopefully you aren't like this guy under stress.. lol it's KILLING me living like this.
they even use our bathroom products.. and we use organic stuff.
so yah i understand money stress for sure. but i guess i'm lucky to be living comfortably. I only pay for internet, insurance, phone, utilities, and rent. + gas.
i'm still saving.
i live in arkansas though and there seems to be a lot of jobs open here..

so what's stressin you? hahah
 

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Constructive criticism is something I appreciate very much. How else would the understanding of the different patterns grow if not for people who tell of how they experience their type pattern or how they can relate to the descriptions? Much thanks.

My sentence about the flaws was due to a very sloppy thinking on my part. I should have left it out and had better concentrated on the deviation of Sixes.

A further try for which I’m grateful for more input:

I thought about how the deviation could lead to one of the dichotomies of type 6. With dichotomies I mean a deep-ingrained perception of only seeing two possibilities which are the opposite of each other. Each enneagram type has some typical dichotomies in which they are imprisoned in a black and white thinking.
Let’s say someone comes from a conservative family. With a 6 pattern he is imprisoned to fulfill the norms of his family and thereby to diminish the deviation or he can rebell against the norms and extend the deviation. It would be a 6ish pattern if you can only see these two options.

Fulfilling the norms (being dutiful) – rebelling against the norms (not being dutiful)

Control is a good keyword. Control over the decisions, to decide for yourself. From my outward perspective this is something which is very important for Sixes but as long as they are imprisoned in their dichotomy deciding for themselves is just a question of either fullfilling the norms and doing what others want or rebelling against it. So getting a stronger sense of their self and what they want is important for them to get out of the dichotomy.
This description cleared some things up for me. Thank you.
 

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Being true to yourself ties in with the 6s fear of following someone’s elses lead and of not having an inner guidance. If they are in accordance with their own self and their own lead they are true to themselves. 4s as image-type are concerned about presenting themselves as authentic (being authentic) and of not showing off an artifical image.
edit: ehh guess it's just semantics like you asid.

here's a further distinction.. whether you relate to a compliant type or withdrawn type primarily..

The Compliants (superego and moving towards people) Include types 1, 2, and 6. These three types share a need to be of service to other people. They are the advocates, crusaders, public servants, and committed workers. All three respond to difficulty and stress by consulting with their superego to find out what is the right thing to do, asking themselves, "How can I meet the demands of what others expect of me? How can I be a responsible person?"

It is important to understand that the compliant types are not neccessarily compliant to other people; they are, however, highly compliant to the demands of their superego. These three types try to obey the internalized rules, principles, and dictates that they have learned from childhood. As a result, they often become authority figures themselves - especially sixes and ones. (Twos can sometimes also be authority figures, although more often by trying to be the "good parent" or a trusted adviser to others.)
When a person who types is in the compliant group enters a room, their automatic sense of self is that of being "better than" others, although how this is expressed is usually subtle.

Sixes are more troubled by inferiority feelings than Ones of Twos, but they get a sense of "better than" through their affiliations and social identifications.

The withdrawns ("subconcscious" moving away from people.) include Types Four, Five, and Nine. These types do not have much differentiation between their conscious self and their unconscious, unprocessed feelings, thoughts, and impulses. Their unconscious is always welling up into consciousness through daydreams and fantasies.
All three types respond to stress by moving away from engagement with the world into an "inner space" in their imagination. Nines withdraw into a safe and carefree Inner Sanctum, Fours withdraw into a romantic and idealized Fantasy Self, and Fives withdraw into a complex and cerebral Inner Tinker Toy. In common language, they all can "zone out" and go into their imaginations very easily. These types have problems with staying in their physicality and with getting out of their imaginations and into action.

The automatic sense of self that arises when they come into a room is, "I am not part of what is going on. I am not like these other people. I don't fit in." The four and the Five most clearly feel separate from others. They reinforce their sense of self by staying apart and being different. In a room full of people, Fours would typically be standoffish and aloof and would act in some kind of "mysterious" fashion. On the other hand, if they were not in the proper mood, they might simply leave, especially sense their sense of social obligation is tenuous ("It is too much for me. I'm just not up to it right now.")
Note: i believe that this is also seen in SP-inclined subtypes of different types... but definitely apparent with these types.

i think this makes a decent distinction on determining yourself from a 4 or a 6. which do you relate more with, etc.
 

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Especially that first description of having something indefinably wrong about you. That's why I worry about people getting too close. They will see my true self - something that is flawed and wrong. I remember trying so many times to articulate why I felt like a terrible person to my therapist and settled on vastly incomplete and superficial reasons.
I totally relate. One of my more recent, most intensive therapists said that I feel a lot of shame. I do have constant feelings of guiltiness, but there's no logical reason. It just gets blamed on depression and such.
 
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I totally relate. One of my more recent, most intensive therapist said that I feel a lot of shame. I do have constant feelings of guiltiness, but there's no logical reason. It just gets blamed on depression and such.
If someone were to blame that solely on depression (although, I admit, it definitely can be exacerbated by depression), then I must have been depressed most of my life. :mellow:

It's an incredibly frustrating dilemma - I want so desperately to be understood and yet, I worry that once am fully understood, everyone will be turned off.
 

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i'm 18.
i live on my own with my gf.
we met another couple we're living with..
For me, the stress is 80%+ caused by them.. they're dirty and they are over 24 years old. I'm 18 but they're the ones who need to grow up. they leave the kitchen dirty for over a week straight (dishes we never used.. they won't clean up after guests and leave food out for days..) one of them doesn't even have a job lol so what's his excuse? just mentally unhealthy. shit gets pretty stressful cuz i'm paying for shitty living conditions. they told us when we moved in they'd move to the other bathroom RIGHT across the hall from them. but, if anything, it's dirtier now than when we moved in. so i guess we'll keep sharing this tiny ass bathroom with them.. yay. i love it when they share our towels too :)

he's always like "yah i'm slacking on cleaning the kitchen.. i'm going to do that today". he'll say that multiple days in a row.
hopefully you aren't like this guy under stress.. lol it's KILLING me living like this.
they even use our bathroom products.. and we use organic stuff.
so yah i understand money stress for sure. but i guess i'm lucky to be living comfortably. I only pay for internet, insurance, phone, utilities, and rent. + gas.
i'm still saving.
i live in arkansas though and there seems to be a lot of jobs open here..

so what's stressin you? hahah
I'm 24 live at home because I can only find volunteer work for which I don't get payed. I guess I should have expected as much living in a shitty 2nd world country. -.- even if I would get a job, starter salary is around 200$ a month and it won't even cover half the rent of moving out...sux. Since the recession there are almost no jobs and a ton of ppl on the street looking for one, because everyone suddenly got layed off starting 2009.

I work at an NGO counseling the elderly, most won't make it till the end of the month...which is depressing. So many ppl out there who are forgotten and helpless...its crazy. I'm finishing my psychology major in college...exams are here. Living with the folks is not as easy as one would expect...the constant pressure and criticism is driving me up the walls etc etc...."you live under my roof you follow my rules" thing. Up until now I had to share a room with my brother, glad I got that sorted at least.

I failed my parent's expectations of me and so the pressure is on to correct it, since I'd starve and die without them...I'm sort of obligated to comply with their wishes...which is making me depressed and unresponsive. Having situational SAD and recently coming out of another failed relationship (this time it was I who got dumped, I'm glad to be on the receiving end :\ breaking up with someone is hard for me..damn infp ) isn't making my mod all to cheery atm.

Other then that life is pretty neat...If I don't figure something out soon I'm going to be stuck here. I guess my biggest problem is that the future looks bleak and I don't know what to do about it yet. I feel lost and I'm wasting the best years of my life.

^^ still life is fun :) and no matter the source of stress we are gonna make it through this and come out the other end living happier lives.

Its just a question of guts, effort and choosing a good direction. Pretty much everyone with some exceptions undergo quarter life crisis between the ages of 18-30.

Good luck to you man. Hope you can save up for better living conditions.
 

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If someone were to blame that solely on depression (although, I admit, it definitely can be exacerbated by depression), then I must have been depressed most of my life. :mellow:

It's an incredibly frustrating dilemma - I want so desperately to be understood and yet, I worry that once am fully understood, everyone will be turned off.
I have been depressed my entire life. They made me see therapists starting in 4th grade. They didn't know what was wrong with me. They still don't. I still don't.
 
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I have been depressed my entire life. They made me see therapists starting in 4th grade. They didn't know what was wrong with me. They still don't. I still don't.
That's terrible. I've had two major depressive episodes (each lasting a few years - I could say that I'm still in one, actually) and my self esteem has always been rock bottom, but I've always had a length of time where I've bounced back for a bit. I'm sorry that you don't get that liberation every once and a while.
 

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That's terrible. I've had two major depressive episodes (each lasting a few years - I could say that I'm still in one, actually) and my self esteem has always been rock bottom, but I've always had a length of time where I've bounced back for a bit. I'm sorry that you don't get that liberation every once and a while.
:\ same here, been depressed since 8th grade or maybe even before. I had a suicide attempt (more like a cry for help and I vowed never to make others worry so much abut me again) first year in college. Somehow the 5 years before accumulated a lot of pain and I ended up in this mix of numbness, sadness and anger...where life seemed not worth living anymore.

It has been uphill ever since that happened. I'm more of an optimist now, still the dark moods don't go away. I have learned to live with them...it's like second nature. "I love it but I hate the taste" type of thing.
 

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If someone were to blame that solely on depression (although, I admit, it definitely can be exacerbated by depression), then I must have been depressed most of my life. :mellow:

It's an incredibly frustrating dilemma - I want so desperately to be understood and yet, I worry that once am fully understood, everyone will be turned off.
I can very well relate to worrying that everyone will be turned off and also about the need to not let others come too close. Getting ridiculed and rejected is one fear but there’s more to it. On a deeper level I fear losing my identity. I base my identity so much on being misunderstood and on being wrong that if there would really be someone able to understand me it would trigger frantic questions of “who am I?” There’s this fear buried inside of me of not having an identity or meaning if someone would understand me. So to avoid this from happening I unconsciously deflect the attention if someone comes close and mystify myself. Wanting to be understood – not wanting to be understood. One of the dichotomies of type 4.
 

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PlushWitch, if you are up to it write a bit how you relate. Best in your own words without quoting anything. Just take what was written previously as a starting point to tell how you see yourself.
Sorry, this is going to be long and maybe it's also a bit blah at some points....:unsure:


Oh man...it's both...it's all mixing up in my mind right now.

I know what is outwardly 'wrong' with me and what people are expecting me to behave like and what I should do in their eyes to be 'right'. But that's not what I want. Yes, I want to be accepted and all. But not at any cost.

No matter what I do...I won't fit into any group. I'm not cool enough for the people who's personality I like so they don't want to hang out with me (for long) and I don't like to hang out with the people who dress the way I do because that's all we share.

As a child in kindergarten I remember one birthday. I was there at that girl's house, I had been invited, nobody had told me that I'm not welcome to play with the other children. But I was ashamed and afraid to go play with them in their room because I thought they as a group wouldn't want to play with me anyway because I was me (I dodn't think about it but that's what summarises the feeling) PLUS I didn't know how to behave and how to play with so many children at once.

I don't think in terms of 'if you are not for it you are against it'. Right now, I'm thinking of the educational system they have at that college I dropped out from recently. What they're doing is a great idea. But this great idea didn't work for me and the other INFJ in my class. That's why we both were the only ones who failed a certain oral exam (which was supposed to be easy...but not for Ni dominant people).
The main examiner who was also our tutor/coach responsible to support our development within the study just didn't know what to do with me. I told her that I didn't make it because of my personality which only few people share. And I said that it's understandable that the system doesn't adjust to those few people because they are the 'minority' but I made it somehow clear that 'we' should still be concidered. Her response was 'yes, but don't you want to learn how to work within this society? (something like that)'. I didn't know how to respond. Saying 'yes' would have been the wrong answer because I didn't want to adjust at any cost, neglecting who I am, and not being supported according to my needs when everybody else is being supported according to their's - which is the most important part of that educational system. And saying 'no' wouldn't have been right either because I wanted to be accepted and have a chance to develop despite this system which would only be possible within this system...ect... Saying 'no' would also have been like saying 'I'm done with this, I quit.' But all the explanations would have been too much and too difficult for me to say and word. So so I shrugged my shoulders and made some kind of nodding movement.
She eventually talked me into consulting the college psychologist since she couldn't help me any further. The psychologist was so clearly manipulative and deliberately tried to make me cry during the first (and last) session. She also asked me if I had problems showing my feelings because she saw that I rationalised them plus I felt really uncomfortable with her. And what she told me about what she wanted to do in this therapy was not helpfull at all in order to pass that stupid exam. It felt like she was trying to show me that I was 'wrong' and how I could adjust and wanted to rip open all of my wounds. But from my previous job training I already knew what it was like to be supported in a way that shows you that you are 'right' without ripping open your whole self, a way that takes your REAL individual strengths and helps you develop them and build new strengths upon them...
...I eventually dropped out because of too much stress with too many things at once PLUS a lack of the support I needed despite their good intentions.

I hoped for the INFJ thing to be the explanation for all of my problems with people and feeling different and for being seen as 'wanting to get special treatment'. But I realised that INFJ was something I could relate to, but that this couldn't be THE explanation and it didn't point to any way for me to develop and unfold.

For the third identification thingy: One quote of what I have written.

To me, dressing up and using lots of make-up doesn't feel like I'm caring for myself. It feels more like I'm hiding who I really am. And other people wearing lots of make-up is also putting some pressure on me like "oh no, I won't be accepted if I don't hide myself behind "pretty clothes" and make-up!".

To me it's much more beautiful if you're just yourself without (too much) make-up and THEN in addition have a (real) smile. When someone who's dressed up smiles, they might just be smiling because they'd been able to hide and now they KNOW they look good. But they're not happy with who they are. They're just happy with their facade...

Not meaning to offend anyone... :unsure:
 

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and to the bold, I relate. i basically hallucinate what others are meaning or thinking.
idk how to explain it right now, but basically I feel like the intensity within me is on my sleeve and people realize just how x, y, or z i am at any given time.
such as being socially awkward for instance. i read too far into things.
If i'm by myself, it's better. but if i'm with someone else, it's like my intense self-absorption has to be put into check, and this isn't always comfortable/desired.
Consciousness/subconsciousness/self-consciousness.. intuition..
 

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o.o plush that sounds type 4-ish, maybe with a 5 wing. You could have a 6 in your triad but I have my doubts about it being the main thing. 9w1 is plausible and ^^ I can't think of anything else. The other types are different from your description. I identify a lot in what you wrote there.

4w5<-->6w5<-->9w1 x.x not sure which is first haha....o.o how does that seem to you and how much do you identify with type 5? It can be 5w4 or 5w6 :S...in the end you have to decide.

Types 9, 4, 5 and 6 are plausible for you imo. The rest are kinda different.

There is an INFJ thread where you guys express worrying about loved ones. That thread is very 6-ish o.o...
 

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o.o plush that sounds type 4-ish, maybe with a 5 wing. You could have a 6 in your triad but I have my doubts about it being the main thing. 9w1 is plausible and ^^ I can't think of anything else. The other types are different from your description. I identify a lot in what you wrote there.

4w5<-->6w5<-->9w1 x.x not sure which is first haha....o.o how does that seem to you and how much do you identify with type 5? It can be 5w4 or 5w6 :S...in the end you have to decide.

Types 9, 4, 5 and 6 are plausible for you imo. The rest are kinda different.
lol...Thanks. :laughing:
That would mean: 'back to what the tests say'. ...Wich would make a few people unhappy. :tongue: :wink:
But that's exactly what I get out of most tests. 4, 5, 6 > 9. The first three are interchangeable in tests.

So yeah, I can relate a lot to the type 5 descriptions (especially the ones in my German translation of 'The Wisdom Of The Enneagram'). That's also the reason why I even walked around with the type 5(w4) label for a while. But I wasn't really happy with that because I seem more cheerful than other 5s. But I can fully relate to the variant stacking descriptions of type 5 so/sx (and also a bit to sx/sp).

And I actually can't relate all that much to type 6 sp/sx - though it's the type 6 variant stacking description I can at least relate to a tiny little bit. But I can relate a lot more to type 4 sp/sx. And it's quite likely that I am an sp/sx. ...Oh yeah...i can even relate to the type 5 sp description in that book.

When I read the 4 description in my book I shortly thought 'oh shit' and setteled a bit more on 5 because I had scored higher on 5 anyway and more of it seemed to fit - at least that was what I wanted to believe. I don't know if that's right.

Some people (not only @Delphyne :wink:) think that I'm probably a 6w7 9w1 2w3 (or something). But I don't agree with 2 at all, actually...and I don't know how I would have got the w7 and w3. :mellow: Although I could somehow menage to relate to this tri-type, it just wouldn't explain my problems AT ALL...afaik...
 

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lol...Thanks. :laughing:
That would mean: 'back to what the tests say'. ...Wich would make a few people unhappy. :tongue: :wink:
But that's exactly what I get out of most tests. 4, 5, 6 > 9. The first three are interchangeable in tests.

So yeah, I can relate a lot to the type 5 descriptions (especially the ones in my German translation of 'The Wisdom Of The Enneagram'). That's also the reason why I even walked around with the type 5(w4) label for a while. But I wasn't really happy with that because I seem more cheerful than other 5s. But I can fully relate to the variant stacking descriptions of type 5 so/sx (and also a bit to sx/sp).

And I actually can't relate all that much to type 6 sp/sx - though it's the type 6 variant stacking description I can at least relate to a tiny little bit. But I can relate a lot more to type 4 sp/sx. And it's quite likely that I am an sp/sx. ...Oh yeah...i can even relate to the type 5 sp description in that book.

When I read the 4 description in my book I shortly thought 'oh shit' and setteled a bit more on 5 because I had scored higher on 5 anyway and more of it seemed to fit - at least that was what I wanted to believe. I don't know if that's right.

Some people (not only @Delphyne :wink:) think that I'm probably a 6w7 9w1 2w3 (or something). But I don't agree with 2 at all, actually...and I don't know how I would have got the w7 and w3. :mellow: Although I could somehow menage to relate to this tri-type, it just wouldn't explain my problems AT ALL...afaik...
Plush, they want to put most 4's into the type 6 box, don't know why thou *shrugs*. ^^ but honestly you a w3 and a w7!? That is very far fetched imo and just shows how much they know you. If I'd have to give you an answer it would most likely be 4w5, 5w4,9w? W3 ppl seem a bit too "electric" for either of us to be 1, both of us don't relate much to type 6 descriptions (I'm nearing the end of my 2nd mbti book and -.- no I relate the most to type 5 from the head types). w7 a 6w7!? <__< those ppl are not introverts or anything even near how we are. The videos I have seen of type 6 and 7 made me go "wtf lol".

No offense to any type 6, imo type 6, 8, 9 and 2s are the coolest enneagram types.
 

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Plush, they want to put most 4's into the type 6 box, don't know why thou *shrugs*. ^^ but honestly you a w3 and a w7!? That is very far fetched imo and just shows how much they know you. If I'd have to give you an answer it would most likely be 4w5, 5w4,9w? W3 ppl seem a bit too "electric" for either of us to be 1, both of us don't relate much to type 6 descriptions (I'm nearing the end of my 2nd mbti book and -.- no I relate the most to type 5 from the head types). w7 a 6w7!? <__< those ppl are not introverts or anything even near how we are. The videos I have seen of type 6 and 7 made me go "wtf lol".

No offense to any type 6, imo type 6, 8, 9 and 2s are the coolest enneagram types.

I'm not sure...have you seen MY videos?... and I do seem quite cheerful... :mellow: Some people went 'oh, yeah, you're a 9w1.' And others went 'yes, definitely some 6w7.' And for everybody it was quite difficult to find both my core type and my heart fix. One explanation might be that I actually have a 4 heart fix that actually is my core type. Afaik 6w7 can be quite 4-like (if I remember that correctly...)...? so the mistyping might as well go the other way round.

The other explanation would be that I completely misunderstood both the Enneagram and myself.

...both my mother and my husband (the two people knowing me the best) actually see me along the lines of 4w5 5w4 9w1... My mom even thought that the type 6 descriptions sounded really off for me. :mellow:
Then again I'd be wondering: 'what does my high score on 6 mean?'
 

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o.o well in the end you are the one who has to decide. I'm still not fully sure about my tritype either so :\.
 
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