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Discussion Starter #1
How are these two types different when it comes to denying their current realities and wanting to find their own form of peace or stimulation? 9's are said to want inner peace, where as it's said the 7's prefer to run from their anxiety. Both 7 and 9's are in a way running from their issues that cause them discomfort but what's the underlying difference?
 

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I dunno, 7s prefer distraction through exciting, fun or funny tasks while 9s prefer blocking things out until they feel content and numb?

Therefore they might both turn into busybodies to reach different emotional states?
 

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The difference is that sevens want to distract themselves from internal negativity by seeking distraction in the environment around them; the more stimulating and exciting, the better. Nines want to withdraw from environments that disrupt their internal equilibrium and cause them to feel overstimulated. Nines are about maintaining inner balance, sevens are about maintaining physical and mental stimulation.
 

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The difference is that sevens want to distract themselves from internal negativity by seeking distraction in the environment around them
Sometimes we go back to lala-land in our heads too, it's not always external ;P

Unsure if it's only a thing for sp-variants or introverts. In any case the negative stuff gets shoved outta the way for more stimulation, so the above is very right.
 

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Nines are about maintaining inner balance, sevens are about maintaining physical and mental stimulation.
That.

9s numb themselves, they shut down so that nothing can affect them, the thing that they're avoiding can be sitting right in front of them but they refuse to see it, or move it, they avoid feeling anything, positive or negative.

7s need to replace the negative feelings with something positive, they seek distraction, they want to feel "up".
 

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Discussion Starter #6
9s numb themselves, they shut down so that nothing can affect them, the thing that they're avoiding can be sitting right in front of them but they refuse to see it, or move it, they avoid feeling anything, positive or negative.
So 9's would never find solace in something they truly enjoy or like such as an activity, music, reading, etc. They will never physically remove themselves and find something else to preoccupy their time? They would just what meditate? Even if a 9 was in a bad place would they not try to seek out positive feelings in order to cope with their distress or do they just enjoy not reacting and numbness even though they were feeling distressed moments earlier?

7s need to replace the negative feelings with something positive, they seek distraction, they want to feel "up".
9's never feel the need to feel up or at least have their current personal state referenced back to them? I get that 7's feel the need for newness and novelty and get bored more easily. I guess what I was trying to find out is if the 9 has activities that make them feel better or make them feel more at ease, like a touchstone or some sort. I was trying to find different ways or commonalities in which they calm down after suffering from stress both seem to move away from it but I was more interested in how they cope with it and if there was a pronounced difference.

Unsure if it's only a thing for sp-variants or introverts. In any case the negative stuff gets shoved outta the way for more stimulation, so the above is very right.
Yeah I get that 7's replace the negative energy with other more positive ideas or opportunities that makes sense. But I imagine the 9 would do something similar in order to withdrawal from outside pressures. I was looking to find a finer difference.
 

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So 9's would never find solace in something they truly enjoy or like such as an activity, music, reading, etc. They will never physically remove themselves and find something else to preoccupy their time? They would just what meditate? Even if a 9 was in a bad place would they not try to seek out positive feelings in order to cope with their distress or do they just enjoy not reacting and numbness even though they were feeling distressed moments earlier?
It's a difference focus, it doesn't mean that a 9 wouldn't distract themselves with something external and upbeat, or that a 7 couldn't distract themselves with becoming absent. It's more about how they disintegrate under stress. The further down a 9 gets the less likely they'll be willing to invest anything in the effort to feel up, and the less likely a 7 will be able to stop being frantic with activities for fear that the bottom will fall out.

Meditation is a positive thing that any type could do, I'm talking more about retreating to fantasy, living inside their head in a happy place where nothing touches them and reality is irrelevant. It's the place where they can appear to be engaging with the world to an untrained eye but they are a million miles away.

Of course this is strictly about the types under stress.

9's never feel the need to feel up or at least have their current personal state referenced back to them? I get that 7's feel the need for newness and novelty and get bored more easily. I guess what I was trying to find out is if the 9 has activities that make them feel better or make them feel more at ease, like a touchstone or some sort. I was trying to find different ways or commonalities in which they calm down after suffering from stress both seem to move away from it but I was more interested in how they cope with it and if there was a pronounced difference.
Ime oneness is a 9 thing, one of the greatest things a 9 under stress could do in order to improve their perspective so they can think about reality again is to be in nature, or some kind of spiritualistic environment like meditation as you suggest. It's very 9 to feel connected to everything and everyone in a deeper spiritualistic sense, that feeling brings great peace to a 9 and renews energy in order to deal with reality again. Plus in that situation there are no expectations being put on them, which is often one of the reasons for retreating physically.

Give me a puppy or a drive in the country and I'll be the vision of inner peace and joy.

Yeah I get that 7's replace the negative energy with other more positive ideas or opportunities that makes sense. But I imagine the 9 would do something similar in order to withdrawal from outside pressures. I was looking to find a finer difference.
It's the activeness that I see as the difference, both want to feel good, both are typically positive (although there are less upbeat INFP E9s out there). A 7 is clearly motivated to find relief outside of themselves by engaging with the world, a 9 is motivated to find it within by disconnecting from the world. It's about the direction of energy, withdrawing v engaging.

One is sloth, the other gluttony.

Better, or still missing what you're looking for?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I think I get it, so 9 is about cutting things off and cutting the emotional cord where as 7 is about finding a new connection or fording a new connection because the previous connection hurt them? 9's divorce and disintegrate from others solely to focus on themselves, where as 7's separate and wish to find someone or something new and exciting to fuel them after hardship. Is that the main difference?
 

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9's divorce and disintegrate from others solely to focus on themselves, where as 7's separate and wish to find someone or something new and exciting to fuel them after hardship. Is that the main difference?
I think so. From my point of view, it looks like:

9: oh, a problem. Calm down. Relax. Don't think of it.
7: oh, a problem! Quick, find something else to think of and do it NOW!
 

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I'm a 7, my mom's a 9. The dynamic played out this way:

When I was feeling poorly as a teenager (which I often did), she would come over to me, hold me, and just sort of "pour fairy dust" on me. She'd say things like, "Well what the other kids say isn't true in my book". This did nothing to make me feel better, because I don't have the capacity to numb myself out by identifying with another person's offered comfort.

See, in her conception, you could kind of will away any negative feelings by neglecting them. What I needed was actually someone to tell me, "Yeah, that does suck...want some ice cream?" I had self-pity issues out the wazoo, and, blame it on my 4-fix, but I was willing to feel it. Why should I deny my emotions? Luckily, I was really distractable, which was something she would never pick up on. She would instead accuse me of "dwelling in it" (and thus, I thought that I couldn't be a 7).

On the flip side, I travel the world. When I'm in motion, I don't have to remember how bad I used to feel. My mom gets tired by this--she doesn't like to do "too much stuff". She likes to stay inside and read mystery novels, no matter how screwed up the world gets around her. She sprinkled fairy dust on me because that's what works for her.

As annoying as I found this growing up, I have a sort of admiration for 9s and their immense capacity to stay centered.
 

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Yes, I have a 7w6 mom. She's great. I've got a Nine fix that is strong, and also being a Six I'm somewhat "related" to Nine, so perhaps I can chip into this. Of course, for a true core Nine like @Sonny, this will be a bit different. Well, take a bit of the Six perspective, I guess. XD But I do think my mom's a pretty good example of a Seven.

My mom hates pain. Well, not physical pain. She's really tough when it comes to that. But any sort of mental stress can be bad. Even bad memories, say perhaps a situation which she regrets happened, she doesn't like to bring those things up and think about them again. An example would be when my brother crashed one of our cars and completely totaled it even though the car would have lasted so much longer. It had a lot of life and use left. Of course, the situation couldn't be helped, but when I was trying to talk to her about that car, she began to get agitated thinking about it and said point blank, "I don't want to talk about this right now." The conversation was steered to another direction.

Also, when we were celebrating Thanksgiving once, we were celebrating it with my dad's side of the family: his father and mother and his sister, her husband and child. My mom has no issues between herself and my dad's parents, but for whatever reason, her relationship with his sister and that family is fragile. They don't necessarily like her, and she doesn't know why. Heck, I don't know why. @[email protected] But what's family without a little drama? However, she ended up coming late and missing much of the meal because at first she couldn't bring herself to come and face more of that stress -- I also suppose I must mention all of this was after a very stressful work week for her in the first place.

Then there are also the possible crisis situations. My mother prefers simply to jump into things. There's a "We'll cross that bridge when we get there" attitude. Meanwhile, I am mentally mapping out all of the possible situations and preparing (at least mentally) for all of those. Often I try and bring these up, because I like having back up plans, or at least letting other people know that certain situations are possible, and we'd better keep these possibilities in the back of our heads just in case. However, my mom will sometimes get annoyed when I say things like that. x3 Sometimes she doesn't understand how I am comforted by thinking about these scenarios and just brushes them aside. Her idea of comfort would be like @holyrockthrower mentioned, which is more of the: "Aw, that's awful. Want ice cream?" --> Brilliant example, by the way, thanks. Meanwhile, what I want is somebody to simply say things like: "Hey, so yes, X, Y, and Z are going to happen, but it's going to be all right. It's not as bad as it seems to be. Because really [said experience] only feels/whatever like so. It only lasts [insert time period here]." But you get the point. My mom tries to distract me from the problem while it is happening or before it happens. I just want to face it mentally as soon as possible.

The good thing about this is, though, that we make a good balance. Oftentimes I predict a certain situation will happen, it happens, and I am prepared for it. Sometimes I remind my mom of unpleasant possibilities, and she is glad that I realized it because sometimes a backup plan is really useful. And in return, due to the fact that she really does tend to be more of a jump-into-it type of person, I haven't had many chances to just run away from fear. I've had to learn how to face things, which I think has done me lots of good as a phobic Six. And there are times when the stress builds up so much for me that it has helped when my mom decides to do something, like take me out for Starbucks coffee and let me have a moment. It makes me realize there's so many more good things out there. And it recharges me.

So yes, good balance.
 

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When I'm sad, angry or frustrated, I like to play video games, play loud music and think about fun things that'll be happening soon. I suppose 9s would be more focused on believing the problem isn't of great significance so they don't have to worry about it.
 

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I'm bringing this topic back to life because I find it so fascinating. I'm a 749, so I can be quite broody and dwellish.

In a crisis that I cant avoid, I will cut off my emotions and become insensitive.
In a crisis that I can avoid, I will think of other things and drive myself to something else.
 

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A Nine often will want to avoid any strong emotional build-up, negative or positive.
Sevens seek positive experiences, to drown out (or replace) negative feelings.
Nines resist being affected by external and internal experiences; ie. there is both an inner and outer boundary. Eights are characterized by their outer boundary, Ones by their inner boundary. But, because Nine is constantly holding up both fronts in this Triad, Nines have been known to report chronic fatigue. Their energy is invested. There is resistance towards affect.
Sevens spend their energy. They flee outward, energized by fear of the internal discomforts they want to escape. They go against their fear.

  • Sevens are a Head-type, (seeking security), and an Assertive-Hornevian type, (demanding security).
  • Nines are a Gut-type, (seeking autonomy), and a Withdrawn-Hornevian type (withdrawing for autonomy).
A way of looking at it might be-- if pain were an object, placed in front of both types:
Nine would turn their back to pain, to avoid seeing it.
Seven would block pain from their line of vision, by placing things between them and their pain, to avoid recognizing it.

Nines resist seeing what they try to avoid. Sevens resist recognizing what they flee from.
Seven walks out the door, Nine looks out the window.
 

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I find this helpful from the Enneagram Institute website. Despite being about relationship trouble between a 7 and 9, the article highlights some of the 7 and 9's differences by saying how each type perceives the other's response to stress:

One of the main areas for potential problems is the fact that neither Sevens nor Nines are usually adept at working through negative or painful aspects of their lives or of the relationship. Both would prefer everything be kept on the positive side; neither one wants to fall into the possibility of depression or to otherwise cut off their chance for happiness. At most, they will briefly acknowledge a problem or conflict in their relationship by blaming the other: both types tend to become anxious, critical, and edgy when under stress, taking these things out on someone else rather than working through negative feelings themselves. Both types also tend to be blind to their own share of responsibility for how the relationship has deteriorated, including their own contribution to communication problems. Nines tend to collapse in the face of the Seven's angry demands, withdrawing into silence and, eventually, inaction. They become increasingly unable to make sense of the Seven's grievances, and so they become stubborn and shut down further, with occasional outbursts of anger or anxiety, or both.
Of the two types, Sevens are far more equipped to talk about whatever is bothering them than Nines, although this does not mean that Sevens are necessarily more able to face what is really bothering them much less resolve it. Sevens tend to impulsively say whatever comes to mind and to fall into excoriating verbal abuse of the Nine whenever the Seven feels frustrated. Sevens often feel that the Nine is too checked out and unresponsive to them. Nines seem perpetually indecisive, slow, and ineffectual. Sevens' criticisms and outright contempt for the unresponsiveness of the Nine only makes Nines retreat further from them and disengage from the situation. However, Sevens often feel that they cannot help themselves and that honesty demands that they tell the Nine how unhappy they are with them. One of the sunniest and most carefree couples can become one of the most hopelessly tortured if they become unwilling or unable to really talk with each other.
 

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Is a 9w8 likely to sort of become somebody else? Like escape into a seedy world of drugs and escape? Or is that more of a 7 thing? I guess it could be any types thing.
 

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Is a 9w8 likely to sort of become somebody else? Like escape into a seedy world of drugs and escape? Or is that more of a 7 thing? I guess it could be any types thing.
could be either... another user already pointed what i believe to be the main difference between nines and sevens' escapism, so i'll just quote them:

The difference is that sevens want to distract themselves from internal negativity by seeking distraction in the environment around them; the more stimulating and exciting, the better. Nines want to withdraw from environments that disrupt their internal equilibrium and cause them to feel overstimulated. Nines are about maintaining inner balance, sevens are about maintaining physical and mental stimulation.
it comes down to what motivates the escape. nine is motivated by "inner preservation" (and detaches from situations that threaten it) and seven is motivated by "pleasurable stimulation" (and rationalizes unpleasurable situations).
 

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Both types could turn to drugs but one will do it out of seeking numbness whereas the other is out of seeking pleasure.

I think on the surface, in moderate situations of escape and with healthy types, it would be hard to see the difference. A quieter seven could use mental stimulation / indoorsy activities as part of their pleasure-seeking whereas a more adventurous nine might wander out into nature or seek the company of friends. So the difference isn't necessarily in behaviour but more that the seven will focus on the positive ("everything must be good, if it's not good I will seek more good things. I will collect good experiences to counter the bad") whereas the nine will try to neutralise the bad ("If my mind is calm I can avoid the bad. If I move away from the bad it can't harm me").

Then the more extreme the situation the more noticeable: seven becomes more frenzied and nine becomes more numb.
 

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7s have more flighty, restless, mental energy. 9s are the opposite. 9s have a soft, grounded and mellow energy.

you can tell the difference in the way they talk. 7s talk fast, jumping from one idea to the next, they're excited, high-energy, entertaining, witty. they can be overly excited and then get bored quickly and move on to the next subject with the same energy and excitement.
9s talk slowly, they go off on tangents, they're dreamy, absent-minded, pacifying, tuning out. they are either present, feeling connected and creating peace and harmony in their environment, or they are absent, tuned-out, ignoring the world around them.

7s are more upbeat, entertaining and engaging, 9s are more likable, relaxed and accepting.

if things get heated, some 9s literally get up and leave the room. some try to pacify and mediate. they want to make peace and achieve harmony. they don't like too much stimulation, they'd rather have peace and equilibrium.
7s on the other hand want to achieve excitement, stimulation, diversion, variety, adventure.
For a 9 that's too much hassle, a 9 would rather relax and keep their peace than be on the move all the time.
7s want diversion and variety, being flexible, keeping options open.
9s on the other hand love steadiness, routines, consistency. they'd rather be bored than over-excited. they can be stubborn and resistant to change.

9s have a connection to type 6 which creates a concern for stability and safety. when they move to 3, they become more efficient and active. a 9 that's connected to type 3 can almost appear like acting in a haste, as if to finish the task quickly, be done with it, so I can be at peace again.
7s have a connection to type 1 which creates a kind of idealism: the ideal being fun, love and happiness, positity. the connection to type 5 creates a fascination with ideas and concepts. 7s can be very intellectually interested (often reading a lot and synthesizing different fields of knowledge).

7: if there's always something fun and new and exciting happening, I am happy and I can enjoy life. I don't want to miss anything.
9: Everything is fine the way it is, so why change anything? Let's just calm down and be at peace.

Conan O'Brian is a 7, Jimmy Kimmel is a 9.
Russel Brand is a 7, Dave Rubin is a 9.
 

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Both types could turn to drugs but one will do it out of seeking numbness whereas the other is out of seeking pleasure.

I think on the surface, in moderate situations of escape and with healthy types, it would be hard to see the difference. A quieter seven could use mental stimulation / indoorsy activities as part of their pleasure-seeking whereas a more adventurous nine might wander out into nature or seek the company of friends. So the difference isn't necessarily in behaviour but more that the seven will focus on the positive ("everything must be good, if it's not good I will seek more good things. I will collect good experiences to counter the bad") whereas the nine will try to neutralise the bad ("If my mind is calm I can avoid the bad. If I move away from the bad it can't harm me").

Then the more extreme the situation the more noticeable: seven becomes more frenzied and nine becomes more numb.
I see. so the 9 is more likely to escape and numb themselves? That's what I do. I know a 7 and recently have noticed that he's very fidgety while I just kind of go oh ok. He needs stimulation all the time which can be annoying. Although I think 9's and 7's are a decent combo. It just seems that the 9 may end up annoyed at them too.
 
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