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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As the title implies. At the current time, after reading about Si and Ni, I do detect a lot of similarities between the two cognitive functions and frankly, the terminology between those two are enough to confuse me. While being Ni dominant, I was hoping that there would be a more concrete example of Si over Ni and vice versa. I do also think this would be beneficial for future purposes for those people who would have difficulty distinguishing the two cognitive functions.
 

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Would you prefer a compilation of all the ways to distinguish these two gathered from various sources, or just basic differences?

It might be easier if you point out all the similarities you've noticed first so we could figure out their relevance and move back to what is different about them.
 

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Jung on introverted sensation vs. introverted intuition:


'Whereas introverted sensation is mainly restricted to the perception, via the unconscious, of the phenomena of innervation and is arrested there, introverted intuition suppresses this side of the subjective factor and perceives the image that caused the innervation.

Supposing, for instance, a man is overtaken by an attack of psychogenic vertigo. Sensation is arrested by the peculiar nature of this disturbance of innervation, perceiving all its qualities, its intensity, its course, how it arose and how it passed, but not advancing beyond that to its content, to the thing that caused the disturbance.

Intuition, on the other hand, receives from sensation only the impetus to its own immediate activity; it peers behind the scenes, quickly perceiving the inner image that gave rise to this particular form of expression—the attack of vertigo.

It sees the image of a tottering man pierced through the heart by an arrow. This image fascinates the intuitive activity; it is arrested by it, and seeks to explore every detail of it. It holds fast to the vision, observing with the liveliest interest how the picture changes, unfolds, and finally fades.'

...

'But, because intuition excludes the co-operation of sensation, it obtains little or no knowledge of the disturbances of innervation or of the physical effects produced by the unconscious images.'
 

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Si Ni overlap + my experience with Si.

Where Si and Ni overlap

  1. They both access the "black hole" of the mind in different ways.
  2. They both can be stubborn and difficult to convince when they "know" something. Ni refuses to accept that it came up with a crazy thought and Si refuses to accept that its evidence/recollection/data is wrong. We rely on our Pi function to inform us. If we can't bank on that, then what do we have? This makes it difficult to see beyond that unless the Pe function is engaged.

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My experience with (tertiary) Si.

(Others may experience it very differently. Some Ti, Ne, Fe snuck into my explanation. I tried to point those instances out to whatever extent I could.)


This portion will try to serve two purposes:

  1. What my Si does (and some examples from others)
  2. What I think motivates Si. (mostly pointed out in green italics)


Constantly building a database of information.

This is rarely a conscious act. It just happens. Everything accumulates in my mind. Once information falls into my head, I don't have to think about it. It goes wherever the hell it decides - deep inside the database. Occasionally, I will conscious store it in a certain pattern or way because I'm using Ti-Ne.

The motivation to build the database is not based on immediate needs. It's like building a library. Do you build a large library because you need 10 books today? No. It's for the future. I know that the database will help me in the future when I want to Ti + Ne. When I have an idea, I can quickly check it against the past (unconsciously). When I make a framework, both Ne concepts and Si data feed into it.

An ISFJ ex knew our entire area's map. I live in a huge city. He was like a living GPS. Some of it was work related because he had to travel daily to various client sites. But most people wouldn't have transferred such an enormous external database into their minds. They would have relied heavily on a GPS.

I believe Si does that to simplify life. The more you can access from within, the easier life is. It is tiring to constantly check something against outside factors. Why not just keep it in your mind so that you can rely on yourself no matter what? That way, you have much less to verify against external databases (note: much less, not never).

There are two forms of data that are stored in my database.

  1. Raw data: recollections stored as images, video clips, sounds/voices, lists, the feeling on my skin, maps. Occasionally I remember smells. I'm not very scent oriented though.
  2. Processed data. From the raw data, information is extracted. For example, from memories, I usually extract people's clothing sizes, shoes sizes, addresses/locations, life history, relationship history, career information, weaknesses, strengths, fears, personal preferences, emotional patterns, etc. That way, this form of data can be accessed separately in the google search mentioned later. Processed data is sometimes categorized to the extreme (using Ti) so that it is perfectly accessible when I want it.

(I think we all do the above, but I'm stating it so that the next part makes sense).

Data is accessed in two forms.

  1. Combination of raw + processed. When my brain has created the necessary references (sometimes unconsciously, sometimes intentionally), I can quickly go back and forth between the processed data and raw data. The advantage in this is that I can "fact check" in the moment. I think, "Is the extracted information really true?" Of course, I know consciously that the "facts" are just recollections, but I also believe that I "know" what happened. It is always jarring to discover that my "facts" are not correct. I wonder, "How is that even possible?"
  2. Only one form is available. Sometimes, my brain can't dish up both. It will send one form of data. Occasionally, it's because the reference wasn't created properly, other times it's because the other form of data has been lost. It could be that the raw data is lost (which is disappointing but it makes sense to some extent) or it could be that processed data is lost (which is irritating, but it happens. What is the point of processing something if you have to reprocess it?)

Google search within the black hole

Any time I think of something or someone, a sort of search result compiles in my head. The speed is not reliable. Sometimes it is extremely rapid, other times it is like a dial up connection from 1999 or worse. The search results are flashes of information (processed data), but quite often, they're raw data - images, video clips, sounds. It is my guess that higher Si has much more processed data because they rely on Si so extensively.

It is much easier to search when I'm alone because this activity takes time and feels weird to do in front of others (unless they're aware I'm doing it and are encouraging). As a higher Ne user, reviewing Si searches frequently results in going off into other realms. Ti will quickly start categorizing data often without any conscious awareness and suddenly spit out part of a framework.


Strong reliance on a somewhat obscure internal infrastructure (not really using Ti, although that contributes too)

My brain (like most brains) creates gateway points for memories and mini databases. This is rarely done consciously. Si loves these. It makes sure that they're all touched upon at regular intervals so that the whole system is accessible. But, of course, as time passes, some gateway points fall out of use. So at that point, I have not only forgotten that the particular collection of information/memories exists, but I have also forgotten that the gateway does.

Eventually, a day comes when I'm strolling down memory lane and make a wrong turn. My headlights shine a light on the long lost gateway. I open the gate and go in. I rediscover this huge archive of information/memories. Then I can access them as if they happened a month ago. At that point, I consciously work to refresh the data multiple times so that I can access them again.


I categorize my recollections based on their "freshness" and try to keep them fresh.

How clear are they? How immediate do they feel? Old memories/databases (even those from kindergarten, preschool, etc) often feel a month or two fresh if they've been touched upon regular intervals. So I can recall a lot, but not every single detail. Hazy memories feel a year old even though they could be from age 2 or age 20 or last week. Sometimes recollections are incredibly good despite the time passed. Sometimes, it's just shitty no matter what :bwink:

I stroll down memory lane at regular intervals to keep them fresh. I guess its like vacuuming your home. If you don't clean your memories/databases regularly, then how can you expect to remember them as if they happened recently?

It's also useful to frequently scrape old recollections for data that I wouldn't have noticed previously, but I can now because I have new Ti-Ne things to do. Example: typing people's ennea and MBTI. The archive will provide all the necessary data to make evaluations no matter how long ago I knew the person (wanna know my kindergarten teachers types? ESTJ 8w7 and an ExFP, probably 7w8. That 8w7 did NOT fit in a classroom with little kids).

Purpose of reminiscing

I love to reminisce alone of course but also with others. I love to hear about their lives and share parts of mine. It's Si's version of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours."

I believe the deeper motivation for this is to
(1) refresh my own database when I share
(2) to learn from others database of experiences
(3) to ensure that nuances within my own database are developed. That happens when I replay it for myself or for others.
(4) incorrect databases are fixed


A little bit of reliance on/fondness for the "done way" + selectively chosen customs.

- Love for the past: As an intuitive, I have a deep love for the future (both short term and distant future). But I also love and trust the past.

The past (mine, others', and the collective past) can teach me so much about life. Why would I deprive myself of that? My Ti-Ne can't and doesn't want to do everything from scratch. I want to put in minimal effort where others have already put in effort.

I know the past is flawed and that it is often wrong. Yet, I also know that most things that have emerged have come from trial and error. I'd rather learn the up-to-date lesson they have to impart, notice the existing errors in their system and then using Ti-Ne or whatever, create better solutions or completely wild innovations.


- When I go to a new place (company, someone's house, city, country, etc), I tune into the routines, rules/laws, and norms of the place. It's important to me to understand that. I may choose to disregard them completely. That's my choice.

Not knowing the norms/customs/routines/etc feels like not being able to tell time. Does that make sense? I can't predict what's going to happen when if I don't understand how they operate.

- I am not that good at traditions, but I have developed fondness for some of them by knowing a few ISFJs. They're really good at making such things extremely enjoyable, conveying the history (if you ask them), etc. I don't like too much tradition, but I enjoy a little bit of it.

I didn't have much of that growing up. Experiencing it helps me understand how to share that with my future hypothetical family.

- I LOVE LOVE LOVE making new traditions in relationships or customizing existing traditions (with Ti-Ne-Fe) to suit the relationship. This part I'm good at.

Reason: I love repetition to some extent because it's a chance to review the past and the present. It's a chance to remind us who we were, where we are now and where we hope to go. Idk if that makes sense.


A desire to understand physiological needs/states and prepare for them

Of course, other types care about this also to some extent (especially xSTPs IME). But Si hones in on this. I really want my internal state to be good. I want to take care of my needs. I'm not consistently good at this because I'm not always aware of them. That's why I like dating higher Si types or being friends with them. They're often instinctively attracted to such subjects.

Going back to ISFJ ex as example: I live in a city where snowstorms are rare. He was once stuck on a road in the middle of a snowstorm for hours after work. He had a huge winter kit prepared in his vehicle. Although he was stuck going at 3 mph, he had fun. He had music, audio books, two shovels, first aid kit, snow boots, full supply of outdoorsy winter clothing + accessories, abundant supply of snow salt, extra gas, and who knows what else. Everyone else was struggling. He was running around on the road, helping others, making friends. I didn't know you were supposed to prepare like that. I learned that sort of stuff from him.


___

There's more such as spatial stuff, awareness of details, but I'm going to stop here for now. Remember, this is all just my experience. You may experience it differently!

 

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Si recognizes familiar sensations imparted by things; Ni recognizes familar patterns conveyed by things

Si notices how things in the present have changed from the past; Ni notices how things in the present might change in the future

Si and Ni both imagine a future based on the past, Si by conserving it, Ni by mapping it on to the future
 

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First, what you're asking is going to vary by type by the order of the placement. For example, as an ENTJ and LIE, I have creative Ni, which is different compared to the Ni of an INTJ and ILI.

That said, I'll describe creative Ni (my second function) with Te as leading (first). I have Si polr (my weakest), so don't expect me to describe Si accurately (lol).

With Te as leading, Te filters the world through the lens of factual information, objective data, and so on - I have an empirical view. I care about the tangible and the application. My Ni works by piecing information into the most probable outcome applicable to the future. In Socionics, Ni is the intuition of time. I view time as a continuum; the past is to serve the future and the future is all I care about. As a creative function, Ni works to serve my Te - the predictive element of Ni is contingent on something tangible (Te).
 

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Here's a couple of posts I've stuck up on Reddit talking about some of the more stereotypical aspects of Ni.

 
When I see a homeless person, I see a few different things, after dissecting the thoughts - how society has failed him/her, depression, sadness, despair, mercy.. you know.. that sort of stuff.
I guess I try to make sense of it - ala wondering what has happened to him that has caused him to wind up where he is - why has society failed him? What did he do? Why can't he get on Centrelink (our government benefits)?.. etc, that sort of stuff..

Those questions come to me sort of in the form of a movie playing out, like my brain is creating a backstory for the person or something haha..
I tend to focus on one area at a time, i.e how has society failed him, and then create little backstories and these will pretty much always start to bring in other thoughts I had at the time - i.e depression, mercy, sadness etc.. in the form of basically fleshing out the story.
It's not until after the fact that I can actually dissect what was going on in my head, I don't actively think in terms of depression, mercy, sadness, etc, it's more like a question and I'll just 'see' the movie, and I don't consciously alter the 'movie', it just happens.

I don't really see the person, per se (not very Fe-like is it?..) but I see meanings behind what I'm physically seeing.
Now this sounds cool and all mystical Ni stuff right, but the sad truth is, and I'm recognising this only recently - that my brain is basically a conspiracy theorist, and creates little stories in my head to prove itself right.

I am also terrible at recalling specific details and information, so if something were to happen to the guy down the track, I would be hard-pressed to remember what colour his eyes were, what colour his jacket was, what was he doing? How tall was he? Did he have a hat? I wouldn't fucking know, if asked those questions.

To me, he was the sad, depressed homeless person who society has failed because he lost his job a few years ago, couldn't pay the rent, got kicked out, now he's found himself on the streets and can't get Centrelink payments because he doesn't have a fixed address.

Then I get the police asking me how the fuck do I know all this - I say "I don't know, how can I know that?" - then they say how can you think about this guy so much and not be able to provide any details for us to work with - I would say "I wasn't really thinking about him specifically, moreso his circumstances" - these kinds of responses aggravate the absolute FUCK out of people, btw - notice the first question being answered (or, dodged, if you're the other person) with a question - pisses people off to no end.

So I mean, what real use is Ni, in real life, everyday situations? I can't turn it off, haha.
Anyway yeah, that's a tiny little part of what goes on in my head when I see a homeless person. There's way more to it than that but yeah.

I don't feel like there's any kind of algorithm going on and I don't feel as though I'm comparing information to any kind of internal database as per the examples provided.


Here's some comment I made to some dude on over a month ago re: Ni - wasn't positive it was Ni, but I'm sure it

 
The intuition you are suggesting (having a solution appear in your head out of 'nowhere') is simply intuition in general.
Everybody has this. Even ISTJs, who would have Ni as their lowest possible function. It's simply a part of being human.

Yes, this relaxed state of mind is how an Ni dominant might prefer to mull things over in their head (perhaps even distract themselves with other things) - but understand, this is how we have worked since we were born, pretty much.
It's not a skill that's been acquired, or a talent that has been developed over time. It is a natural inclination to prefer not to make a decision, or offer a solution, until we feel comfortable doing so.

You mention you can sense the energy of certain people at times - yes, you are picking up on body language clues, facial expressions, tone of voice etc, and likely noticing what is missing - body language that doesn't match what you're being told, perhaps noticing particular words not being said, reading between the lines - making assumptions.. this is very much the realm of Se-Ni or Ni-Se, whichever way around.

Just note that as an ISTP, you're Se-Ni are closely intertwined. ISTPs are after all, dominant introverted thinkers, not the Se stereotypes we see bandied about the internet. Far closer to the INTP than an ESTP, for instance.
Your descriptions of music strike me as a preference for Se over Ni - it's all visual and about the actual sound, what things look like.

To compare, for no good reason other than I have a couple of minutes to waste before heading to work - when I hear music, my mind fills up with a few different things, I'll imagine the setting, the atmosphere, I'll see the character, plays out a little bit like a movie - I zone out easily to my own interpretation of the song, and wind up having my own movie playing out in my head - in these instances, I'm practically in the song, feeling the rain, hearing my footsteps on the wet streets.

The vibe of the song practically creates an entire world in my mind, not so much the lyrics themselves.
Inside the songs world, things will happen that will make me sound like a nutjob who needs help - certain instruments or melodies etc will play out a little bit like monsters or animals, with their own stories to tell - for instance, the guitar line to Brothers In Arms by Dire Straits.

That song puts me in a world that is essentially darkness, with some fog and mist, however when the guitar plays, I envision the shadow of a wolf on a red background, lurking the streets searching for prey - it's hungry, not too hungry though, and the intensity of it is absolutely immense.

Now the wolf never finds it's prey. In my head, the wolf is left to remain searching for food, searching for whatever it is that it is looking for.
The intensity doesn't get a chance to escape - it's like the wolf is repressed, pent-up energy.
I've had time to think about this kind of thing, and my own understanding of it is that my mind is creating mental imagery to show me how I feel about the guitar line.

The guitar line in that song never "breaks out", it never "goes off", Mark Knopfler keeps the intensity high, yet never, not once, does he unleash the power that is building up.
I am of the opinion that my mental imagery of the shadow wolf is a reflection of my observations with regards to that repressed, powerful guitar line.

I have no idea if this is actually Ni. It's just how I see and experience music.
I'm only beginning to understand as of like the last 2 days, that not everyone experiences life in this fashion.
I had a hard time resonating with the "imagery" often associated with Ni when I first believed I was an INFJ - it was the one thing that threw me off - I didn't recognise it within myself because it's the air I breathe, it's so dominant in me, it simply didn't "click" that THAT was what people were talking about.

For the life of me, I can't understand how people could live any other way.
I'm actually wanting to ask people about this kind of imagery, and whether they experience it, and if so, how prominent, because I just can't link it to Ni.

I feel like it's just called "being human".
Either way, that's my 2c on the things you've mentioned in the OP. Hope this helps a little. Probably just makes it more confusing.


To compare this with Si - my wife is an ESFJ and songs basically take her back to when she was with A, or a certain time in her life, a particular date, party, event etc.. it's stereotypical, but music to her doesn't drift into complete fantasy land with things that never happened - that kind of imagery is intuition - she absolutely experiences imagery in her head connected to music, but it's always things that have actually happened.

I was chatting to her last night about her Si last night, and she thinks it's really detail-oriented, she recalls 'vibes' a lot, and be able to dive into every little detail of an event - for instance, how it felt when her father was beating her mum up one day - she'll never forget this and she clearly recalls how she *felt*.. that feeling guides basically every interaction (or lack thereof, now) with her father.

That feeling brings to mind the event in crystal clear clarity - note however, she can recall these vibes or events practically at will.


Ni on the other hand, witnessing the same thing, it's just not there, I can't recall a feeling, I hardly remember it at all, it's suppressed - however something else will trigger my memory - the concept of deceit - whenever someone talks about deceit, I can bring to mind that moment in my life just as clearly as my wife does with her situation.

This is because after this particular beating, which I 100% witnessed, my stepdad lied brilliantly to my face - he told me my mum fell down the stairs, looking me right in the eye - if I hadn't literally seen what happened, I'd have believed him, it was an incredibly 'genuine' lie.
This moment is forever linked to 'deceipt' to me, amongst other things which are all sort of off-shoots of deceit, and also there are other things that would wind up with me getting to deceit and therefore that moment as well.

Bit like jumping from concept to concept (my subjective interpretations of them anyway), whereas I imagine Ne might be jumping from object to object (or whatever - they get their ideas etc from the 'real world').

This is how my memory works at it's best, and this is definitely not how my wifes mind works, not how she recalls information, she doesn't connect concepts to memories, she definitely connects 'vibes' to them though, and if she feels the same way about something in the present, she'll immediately know it's that same feeling she had in some other situation and work out what's going on from there.

I'd love to hear from an Si dom.
 
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Si - paying attention to the little details that other people overlook, at the expense of being able to think outside the box
Ni - paying attention to what is on the abstract periphery of your awareness, at the expense of noticing what is in front of your nose
 

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I’ll just leave one of my own subjective experiences here. Maybe it’s a more literal and concrete (and less abstract) example.

So I’m an Si user and my husband is an Ni user. We were talking about helping someone who is very stubborn and just won’t seem to listen. He’s already made up his mind and says “No, there is no helping someone who just won’t listen. They will not listen” and I disagree saying “no, we can try different methods. I’m sure if we do this and that and not give up, he will eventually listen”

I think this little example shows the differences between Si and Ni quite well (to me anyway). Ni has already established this set “principle” in their minds and know that something just will not work. Whether it works or not is a different story, but they logically come to this conclusion (logical thought doesn’t always have to be right or factual). Whereas Si is always seeking to build upon and utilize different methods that have proven to work before to try and apply it to a similar situation. They expect those methods to consistently work for the most part. Once again, whether the same method will work or not is not guaranteed.

I can see how my example can actually seem like the opposite based on stereotypes from some internet sources, in which Ni is referred to as innovative and Si is referred to as stuck in their ways. This isn’t always true and this is not the core meaning of my example. The reason my husband firmly feels the person will not listen is not because he is set in his ways, but because after analysis using Ni, he has already came to a steadfast conclusion that whatever efforts put forth will result in a waste of time. On the other hand, me being an Si user, I just won’t believe that because there is no evidence suggesting it won’t work. I need to try and get a reaction out of it, to satisfy my skepticism and then I would be convinced on whether or not it will work or not.

Feel free to let me know you agree, disagree and any comments or questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
How interesting. Digesting the pieces of information, would I be correct in assuming that Si remembers things in great detail, but does nothing with it, while Ni recalls something from the past and that leads to a "future" outcome?
 

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How interesting. Digesting the pieces of information, would I be correct in assuming that Si remembers things in great detail, but does nothing with it, while Ni recalls something from the past and that leads to a "future" outcome?
That seems a pretty unfair assessment to Si. I think this one is only going to be logical if you combine the Sensing and intuiting functions.
I think the problem is that Ne and Si work together very closely, as do Ni and Se. It can be very hard to distinguish Si from Ne or Se from Ni because they work together seamlessly if well developed.

The S-N axis is the whole process of handling information gathering, storage and making new connections. In this process Si and Se gather information, Ni and Si store the information, Ni and Ne make predictions based on the information and Ne and Se explore new possibilities. All of the functions have multiple uses, but there's no one-to-one correlation between Si and Ni or Ni and Ne for example. They seem to use different parts of the brain to generate similar results.
 

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Si recognizes familiar sensations imparted by things; Ni recognizes familar patterns conveyed by things

Si notices how things in the present have changed from the past; Ni notices how things in the present might change in the future

Si and Ni both imagine a future based on the past, Si by conserving it, Ni by mapping it on to the future
how does this manifest for you as an INTP?

do you relate more to the Si or Ni way of imagining the future?

I ask because you are an intuitive yet you value Si over Ni, so i'm curious how this manifests in an intuitive with Si right under

also whats the difference between imparting in Si and conveying in Ni
 

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From my observation, one of the ways Ni and Si are similar is that they are both functions that make easier a deeper understanding of the way something is set up as a system of multiple parts, and confer a certain ease in dealing with those systems, making them work, modifying them, etc.

In this dimension, Ni and Si differ in what sort of systems they are best suited to. Ni is for more theoretical systems, more abstract stuff. Like the mechanics of language, or some sociopolitical theory, etc. Si is more for concrete systems, like machines, electronic systems, buildings etc. This is probably one of the reasons Si doms are usually good with practical mechanical stuff, machines, building concrete stuff in the real world, etc. On the other hand, Ni doms love spending ages trying to mentally explore, configure and reconfigure areas of theoretical knowledge, hypotheses and grammatical and syntactical rules into a better working whole, such as a comprehensive world view, or an essay on some subject.

I suspect that for the same reason, strong Si types would make good surgeons, anatomists, etc. The human body can be seen as a system of subsystems kind of like a complex machine. I can imagine strong Si types having little difficulty 'fixing' the machine just like an expert car mechanic can work wonders on a malfunctioning car engine.

On the other hand, strong Ni types feel rather at ease working on more abstract systems, such as for example re-arranging and reconfiguring someone else's theoretical construct, ultimately a piece of arguments and assumptions, to better fit its purpose. Immoral Ni doms would probably make great spin doctors, working from the shadows to grant clarity and force of persuasion to a political position as expressed through spoken and written word.
 

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Considering Si and Ni are both introvert functions, it's almost impossible to give a tangible example of them, only some particular behavioral traits which are mostly stereotypical. I think to understand the function, you need to find their axes and the dynamic between them, for Ni is Se and Si-- Ne. Se is about engaging in the immediate situations and immerse in the experience without thinking, judging, or categorizing. Ne is about connecting ideas from the objective situations to quickly form bigger pieces of the puzzle and quickly create new interesting combinations out of them. If someone has Ni, they'd exhibit Se, and Si users will exhibit Ne. Since Ni collects data through Se, it would transcends into a pure, raw piece of insight. Si doesn't collect data through Ne, but Ne generates ideas through Si "refined" data. Si is like a librarian, archivist of selected and reliable data, while Ne is like a kid who wants to dive through it to find a creative way to connect all of these. Ni is like a zen monk trying to have an enlightenment through means of raw sensing experience (comfortable or uncomfortable). Si uses selected data without further interpretation. Ni lives on interpretation and allusion of data. Si is like a fine wine, comfy clothes, and conventional education. Ni is like the absence of senses, and inner actualization. Both are similar in the way that they built the web of information internally. The difference is that Si is built on numerous tried-and-true experience, and Ni is built on countless sensing clues and perceived patterns.
 

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@Turi and anyone else who would like to examine this. Every time I see this sort of thread go up or talk about Si/Ni, I think about this video. It's part of a series and, of course, it goes into way more detail about this particular subject in later videos. However, I really think this might help.

It's a 23 minute video. I don't expect anyone to watch the whole thing, though I did, obviously. I find this particular person very insightful and his videos about this stuff very helpful.

To view the perceiving functions, starting with Se/Si, go to 18:23. That's just 5 minutes of your time to get a glimpse from what I think is an enlightening source. To give a bit of background, he has already talked about the judging functions using a girl and boy as an example. Now he is on the perceiving functions and he continues, asking the viewer to consider the boy and the girl as they use the functions that they perceive a painting.

 
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how does this manifest for you as an INTP?
the stronger a function is the larger its circle of influence will be...a dominant function affects everthing in one's cognition...a tertiary function only affects the things in one's immediate presence...so my Si only influences the things around me that I call my own...and even then, its focus is usually confined to the things I interact with most, like my desk and computer, for example...things I don't touch or are not so important I hardly notice...that's why intps (and infps) usually don't notice dust accumulating on non-workspaces, etc, until it's clean-up time and we suddenly realize, hey, there's dust!

do you relate more to the Si or Ni way of imagining the future?

I ask because you are an intuitive yet you value Si over Ni, so i'm curious how this manifests in an intuitive with Si right under
again, circle of influence...because my Si only extends to my immediate surroundings, I don't use it to "imagine a future" as a Si-dom might...rather, I put things in my environment where it makes sense or is convenient to put them and expect them to remain there until such time as I have some reason to notice or use them...that's what "imagining a future" in tertiary Si sense amounts to

also whats the difference between imparting in Si and conveying in Ni
impart conveys the idea that a physical sensation is received by Si from the things in its environment

convey conveys the idea that a mental image or idea is received by Ni from the things in its enviroment

aside from these fine distinctions, they mean the same thing


but now that I think about it, impart is not the right word...induce is more accurate, since Si is the subjective, personal reaction of the individual to objective, impersonal sensory inputs--ie, Si impressions arise in the individual and are not carried by external stimuli

likewise, convey is not the right word, either, for the same reason...Ni impressions are manufactured in the subject's mind; they don't exist outside of the mind...infer is a better word...Ni infers its subjective impressions from things in its environment
 

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@Turi and anyone else who would like to examine this. Every time I see this sort of thread go up or talk about Si/Ni, I think about this video. It's part of a series and, of course, it goes into way more detail about this particular subject in later videos. However, I really think this might help.

It's a 23 minute video. I don't expect anyone to watch the whole thing, though I did, obviously. I find this particular person very insightful and his videos about this stuff very helpful.

To view the perceiving functions, starting with Se/Si, go to 18:23. That's just 5 minutes of your time to get a glimpse from what I think is an enlightening source. To give a bit of background, he has already talked about the judging functions using a girl and boy as an example. Now he is on the perceiving functions and he continues, asking the viewer to consider the boy and the girl as they use the functions that they perceive a painting.
Thanks for the link, I watched the whole thing. Keen to watch the rest of the series when I'm able to.

In watching that video, it further confirms my suspicions that our (maybe just my) preferences for say, Ni and Ne, run almost hand in hand, resonating with both very much (Ne ever so slightly moreso).

I realise that wasn't the point of the video, but in watching it, this is simply how it is.

How do you feel you relate to Ne?
I imagine you would feel you relate to Ne a fair bit, but not as much as Ni.
However, when you compare Si and Se - you resonate with Se a little bit, but Si almost not at all - making Se and Si less preferred functions, but overall a preference for Ni and Se.
 

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Plague Doctor
INTJ, 5w4, Ni-T type
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How do you feel you relate to Ne?
It's really hard for me to divorce my idea of N from Ni + Se. I see Ne in my partner who is an INTP and it seems all over the place, disorganized, and a bit spastic to me. When he talks about his different ideas or the potentials he sees in the world, I tend to have a sort of running counter-dialogue in my mind that picks and chooses the various things he's saying and aligning that with my internal impressions to relate that way. While I like to think myself quick-witted, it's my partner who is truly quick-witted. I can keep up with light banter, though and I can be sharp; he just does it better.

Anyway, if one were going off of scores from online tests only, it would appear that I'm high in Ne and Ni. The problem is that it's all internal and some questions on those sorts of measures have difficulty measuring the difference between the outward focus and the inward focus.

In actuality, I can appreciate Ne and I think it's very generative and creative, but on a bad day, it seems irritating and overwhelming. While sure, I think I can generate ideas and I am creative, I think I do that in an Ni-Se way.

My function stack is Ni-Te-Fi-Se. Of the 4 functions that are not in my function stack, I think I relate, in order to: Ti, Si, Ne, and Fe in that order. Your quest to figure out the essence of Ni in previous posts (from my perspective at least) is very similar to my quest to understand Fe. I don't want to turn this into Fe bashing at all, but it just really doesn't make sense to me. I understand it serves very good purposes. I just can't seem to figure out what those purposes are etc...

I also think it's important to mention that my understanding of MBTI is complimented by my schooling and profession.
 
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Si gives reliable memory to facts and precision of thought. One thing that often pisses me off about Ni users is that they don't have good memory to facts and often during discussion about known stuff (for example what happened about some point or what are causes of something) will bring up some bullshit they invented.
 
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