[heavydirtysoul]

How do you tell the difference between So/Sx and So/Sp? I'd very much like to hear your thoughts and opinions.

 

[Rabbit Heart]

Spotting a social dom and then determining whether they are sx seconders or lasters is quite easy. There is a differing quality to their energy. So/sx is playful, funny, witty, usually hyper (depends on enneagram and MBTI) and depending on the strength of their second instinct, visibly intense either at first meeting or when you get to know them better. So/sp:s can be giggly and kind of hyper too, but they are usually more calm. If you don't know them better talking with them makes one feel like they are talking to several people instead of you. Their style of speaking is informal (edit: totally meant formal! ) and kind of pseudo-intellectuall-ish, imho. :S Sexual last feelers are usually quite humorless or at least don't like crude humour. Sexual lasts usually lack the "it" factor and can easily blend to the mass. (Though I know one so/sp who radiates this aristocratic energy but she's after all a 4w3) I find their flirting kind of akward/naive (though I have to admit I'm rather jealous they can flirt without seeming they want to consume the soul of the person they are flirting with).

 

[Figure]

I find that So first really amplifies the Fe in an ENFJ, making you really aware of what is good for the group, and what higher ideals ought to be defended for everyone's comfort, potential, and care. They're fantastic leaders in this regard, always looking ahead to defend the wellbeing of their people. With the Sx, you get more of desire to make a personal stamp on the group. With Sp, you get more concern for what practical concerns the group needs to function at its best.

I know two ENFJ, one who is a close friend from college (7w6 So/Sx) and one who is a colleague (3w2 So/Sp). You can really tell the difference in conversations between the two despite them having a lot in common.

My friend's So/Sx comes across as this fun but focused sincerity. He used to (almost literally) leap around campus the weekends, grabbing lunch with one friend, getting dinner with a group including the friend from lunch, then drinks on a rooftop bar with everyone who wanted to stay, or with an entirely new group if everyone from before was tired out. There's this underlying understanding that you "get" your friend and can rely on each other in a pinch, because you are close. As an So dom, he can get pulled into many connections within a group and become scattered entertaining all of them. Also, no sense of physical alert; little need of sleep.

My colleague is also extremely dependable and group-focused, but you don't get the same sense of an unspoken bond. It's the same passion for the group's wellbeing and desire to be looked upon highly by the group, but once that's in line, it's more about practical things - who's assigned to what, what's the progress on this issue, is everyone exhausted? She's less of an interpersonal hare, and more of a poised (if a bit dry) foundation keeper. Unlike the So/Sx (who can go on all night and want you to too), things like illness, exhaustion, comfort etc at some point set up personal boundaries an So/Sp will respect.

 

[The Scorched Earth]

So/Sp's strike me as more grounded and solid in demeanor. So/Sx's tend to be more dorky.

 

[nujabes]

Hi! I'm an ENTP 7w6 so/sx.

With the social instinct as my dominant, I'm highly aware of intra-and-intergroup dynamics. My energy is primarily focused on observing and understanding how the people that I'm around interact with each other, recognizing and tinkering with patterns I find, and (as a 7) creating new and enjoyable scenarios. Often I feel like a puppeteer because social interactions become impersonal maps of relationships. I've been called a social engineer and a benevolent overlord before.

What the sexual part of so/sx implies is three-fold. One, I seek out intensity in my social interactions. While my energy is primarily focused on determining social hierarchies, power structures, and relationships between components of a system, my goal in doing this is to further develop and deepen the connections I have with the individuals of the group. Two, the self-preservation instinct is last. Combine this with my inferior Si and it results in the compulsion to continue socializing and creating new social scenarios for everyone to enjoy without regard for the physical needs of those involved (food, sleep, hygiene, etc). I'm known to be the last person awake at a party, boo-ing everyone who wants to stop having fun and pass out. Third, as @Figure points out, the bonds I forge through my social interactions take precedence over pretty much everything. You can call me up at 3am and tell me you need help or that I should join you immediately at this wicked party that you just found, and I'll be there. You need me to keep a secret that would otherwise devastate your social standing? I'll keep it (unless you like, stabbed someone or something).

 

[heavydirtysoul]

So/Sx's tend to be more dorky.

Why, in which way? :happy:

 

[The Scorched Earth]

^^ They use the sexual instinct, which is the messiest of the instincts, to facilitate social bonds. That makes for a lot of awkwardness and dorkiness. Think Ellen Degeneres.

 

[Zombie Devil Duckie]

Thank you for the question OP. I've thought about it as well but @Figure summed it up nicely, so I'll just +1 his observation.


-ZDD

 

[heavydirtysoul]

^^ They use the sexual instinct, which is the messiest of the instincts, to facilitate social bonds. That makes for a lot of awkwardness and dorkiness. Think Ellen Degeneres.

Funny - I saw Ellen DeGeneres commonly typed as a So/Sp 6w7. In case, are So/Sp truly cold and restrained?

 

[Inguz]

The way that I distinguish them is to look at So/Sp as 'politician' and So/Sx as 'buddy'.

 

[MissyMaroon]

Sexual last feelers are usually quite humorless or at least don't like crude humour. Sexual lasts usually lack the "it" factor and can easily blend to the mass.

No, it depends on other aspects of their personalities. Perhaps Sp/So is more likely not to be attracted to crude humor, but I have known So/Sps with the raunchiest sense of humor.

I think this is a good thread because it can be easier than you think to mix the two up, particularly many So/Sps mistyped as So/Sx. Yes, there will the people who are very blatantly obviously their type, but the lines can blur among more balanced individuals, especially when the Sx instinct is misunderstood.

Sx seeks intensity of connection - be that to a thing, a person, an interest, a happy, etc. - and a sense of merging with those things. It's a simplification, but we'll go with that for now.

What you'll find in Sp is a very practical, stable, grounded sensibility about things.

I will use my roommate who I thought was an So/Sx for a long time as an example. She is also an ENTP so, by default because of the zaniness and brilliance that comes with being that type, it's not difficult to see why I thought she was an So/Sx. She is fun, has a certain whimsical quality, always cracking a joke of some sort (usually something absurd delivered in a dry way), engaging, very passionate about the things she likes (sewing, design, etc), and just a perky and enthusiastic person in general.

I used to think being Sx last made people lack a certain spark, fieriness, or liveliness about them, but that is not necessarily true. My roommate clearly has all those things. However, I noticed throughout the years living with her, she voiced out concerns of a more Sp nature a lot more than you'd expect to hear from an Sp-laster. She is more practical minded than me in many ways, very focused on her energy levels, responsibilities, comfort, any possible ailments. She has a very 'get it done' attitude. She will face palm at the crazy things that I do and is very mindful of safety.

Her Sp was coming out so strongly, but I was still confused about her type because it seemed weird to me at the time to push Sx to the last because I thought she was too vivacious for that - not to mention had a phase where she was obsessed with sex, and is still quite an avid fan. I remember before she was with her boyfriend, she was so sex-crazed, always wanted a boyfriend or fling or something, flirting with any guy she found attractive. She's stabilized a lot since then (thank her boyfriend for that!), but she'll crack sex jokes left and right, be quite crude in her explanations, etc.

Sx is *not* about sex. I mean, yes, it's called the sexual instinct for a reason: When aroused or engaged in sex, you are locked onto the person you're having sex, your concentration aimed fully at them (wanting, lusting after them), sometimes you can even feel a certain oneness - a deep and intense connection - with that person while in the act. That intensity found in sex translates to a certain 'lust' and intensity toward one's interests and passions in the sexual instinct.

While my roommate is fun and exciting and sweet, her Sp needs far overshadow her Sx, even if it is not nearly as non-existent as some people's inferior instincts. When I got to thinking about it, she has many friends and rarely brings up the level of closeness she has with them, even if it is there - it is not a priority. She is not as concerned about intensely connecting to something. I've seen her talk to many people, and to most (including those dearest to her) she will talk fairly the same way to all of them with just about the same energy level. She is pretty responsible and makes sure to stay on top of things.

So, yes, she is an So/Sp. I imagine an So/Sx would be more scattered as far as responsibilities go, but there is a certain depth to the connection they make with people, and they definitely *seek* it a lot more. You know how Sx is often described as missing something and looking for that special puzzle piece that will fit and complete it? It's like that, whether it is overtly stated or not, unless they have that thing that they are locked onto, they will seek it out, or if not so active, feel not quite right, 'incomplete' to a degree, unmoved. Sx wants that thing that lights its soul on fire and burn in it if they have to. XD Of course, as a secondary instinct it will be more muted than an Sx-dom.

I am an Sp-first so I understand how self-preservation concerns manifest. Things to do with sustaining the self will come out to the forefront - money, career, health, energy, comfort, grades, peace in its interpersonal relationships, anything to do with what could affect their security. Sp wants stability. If those things are taken care of, they worry less (and not every person will focus on all of those things; in most cases, it's just a couple.) They value things like moderation because gluttony or neglect can negatively affect those things, which will negatively affect their sense of security. They conserve their energy and resources, otherwise they might feel they will not have enough to fulfill their own needs.

Sx (by itself) does not give a damn about stability. In fact, it is ready to explode. It is the hot and cold, the really high end and the really low end, either holding in its energy when nothing is capturing its attention, or spending seemingly limitless amounts of energy on that thing that calls its attention. It wants to be a part of the thing that captivates it to open those floodgates. It doesn't just want to embrace it; it wants to sleep in its skin. It knows no boundaries once something has awakened it. Think of So as a sort of web or tree with little connections everywhere, ever growing and expanding in multiple directions; Sp a sort of walled or moated fortress, keeping things contained and safe, keeping danger at bay; and Sx as a blast from a laser beam or flamethrower, looking to obliterate any barriers between itself and its desired object, consuming it entirely in its wake.

As a decent method of pinpointing secondary instincts, looking to see what the inferior instinct may be can prove to be enlightening. In the case of my roommate, despite her fun-ness and wackiness, she just brought up Sp stuff waaayyy too much for it to be an Sp-laster, and it made me notice how little she factors intensely intimate connections into her decisions.

Anyways, I am rambling now and I know I'm not the best at explaining the instincts, but I hope this offered insight in differentiating between the types.

 

[Bricolage]

The way that I distinguish them is to look at So/Sp as 'politician' and So/Sx as 'buddy'.

I conceptualize the difference in a similar way. So/Sp are speakers to groups and So/Sx are the best friend archetype. Obviously, there's more of an underlying zest for life with So/Sx. The So/Sp I have come across tend to be more sober and long-range planning focused.

 

[Noll]

i'm So/Sp. ask me anything.

 

[heavydirtysoul]

So/Sx are the best friend archetype. Obviously, there's more of an underlying zest for life with So/Sx.

How does So/Sx/Sp typically experience Self-Preservation?

 

[nujabes]

How does So/Sx/Sp typically experience Self-Preservation?

As necessary annoyances, but more on the annoying than the necessary. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm disconnected from my body, because that's not the case, but there is a level of physical detachment that is present. Food, shelter, adequate funds, these things don't concern me. I forget to attend to basic standards of hygiene simply because everything is more important/interesting. I have to be really grimey and dirty and just disgusting in order for me to realize (on my own! i don't ignore people when they tell me i should probably shower after 2 days of raging) that i need to take a shower and clean myself.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not a dirty, disgusting person. But the physical experience of self is something i'm disconnected from to a certain degree, and it manifests itself in these ways. I need to have a totally mindless routine for hygiene and nutrition that can be executed with little to no thought because my focus is almost always on either a) social interaction and experimentation or b) seeking my next experiential fix

I've also read (not sure where) that the 3rd instinct is how one seeks out romantic relationships - so an so/sx could view those relationships through the lens of self-preservation (meeting the basic needs of a relationship, ie comfort, trust, physical intimacy). This is true enough for me to buy it.

 

[Bricolage]

How does So/Sx/Sp typically experience Self-Preservation?

Anecdotally, my 7w6 So/Sx ESTP younger sister really doesn't experience self-preservation. She drinks like mad and doesn't sleep properly. She asked me what a carb was last week...oh my sister hardly ever showers as well...yet she lives in the city.

Generally this is how the variants work though:

Alternative way of looking at instinct stackings:
Primary - The instinct taken in its most literal, concrete sense.
Secondary - The instinct taken in an abstract, creative sense.
Tertiary - This instinct remains dormant, little attention and time are devoted to this area.

Some sp-lasters can suffer from perpetual childhood and arrested development.

As necessary annoyances, but more on the annoying than the necessary.

I wouldn't disagree with that. @nujabes
​

 

[Figure]

The talk about So/Sx not recognizing their physical state is really interesting, because everyone's descriptions are really adding up to what I would have otherwise written off, without enneagram background, as a "zany" personality. From the point of view of Self Pres coming first, the So/Sx look like they're going to destroy themselves out of simple unawareness at some point before their 40s - and for the old ones, the thought is "how the hell did they make it that far?"

Sometimes the instincts pop up as conversational patterns. The So/Sx like discussing things like pop culture, movies (I don't even watch them), TV (likewise), etc. I literally do not understand why these would be interesting discussion topics to someone, but they could go on for hours. In fact, their "down time" is spent on these things, and after 5 minutes, I'm done. They will want to talk about, for example, a funny video I have, to their surprise, never seen - and want that to be part of your Sx connection. My thought is "I'll watch it with you and pretend to enjoy it, but I want out of here if we're not going to do what we came here to do." And typically, they're okay with that since the need for connection is less strong, and dissipated among many.

The So/Sp doesn't pull you in as much. The connection isn't there. You're more on the same page with favorite restaurants, career strategies, housing, etc but they don't yank you into a communal setting as a way of keep the connection. Then again, when you wish they would, you know they never will because you share energy - it would be on behalf of a group.

 

[nujabes]

The talk about So/Sx not recognizing their physical state is really interesting, because everyone's descriptions are really adding up to what I would have otherwise written off, without enneagram background, as a "zany" personality. From the point of view of Self Pres coming first, the So/Sx look like they're going to destroy themselves out of simple unawareness at some point before their 40s - and for the old ones, the thought is "how the hell did they make it that far?"

I can't tell you how many times I've been told that I'm going to grind myself into nothing and burn out before I get close to retirement age... I also don't know how to respond to that.

Yes, you might be right. But... it's worth it? Hopefully robotics advances enough in the next 20-30 years that I won't be held back by the biological limitations of my body.

 

[heavydirtysoul]

Thankfully, at the moment, I am quite sure that I am not Self-Preservation last.

Four stackings to choose from left. Real challenge!

 

[Bricolage]

Thankfully, at the moment, I am quite sure that I am not Self-Preservation last.

Four stackings to choose from left. Real challenge!

Socionics - the16types.info - Instinctual Stackings

Flow of Instinctual Energies & Compatibility

When we invest our energy, most of it is devoted to fulfillment of our primary instinct. The remaining energy radiates or flows onto the secondary instinct and finally onto the last instinct, which receives the smallest share. There are two possible configurations or directions for this flow. In first configuration, energy is invested in the order of sx→sp→so→sx. This direction gives rise to three stackings: sx/sp, sp/so, so/sx. In the second configuration, energy is invested in the order of sx→so→sp→sx, which gives rise to the other three stackings: sx/so, so/sp and sp/sx.

Syn-flow: sp → so → sx → sp
Stackings involved: sp/so → so/sx → sx/sp → sp/so
Direction: Compelled toward people. Acting upon and with others as a born insider i.e.- deeply human.

Contra-flow: sp → sx → so → sp
Stackings involved: sp/sx → sx/so → so/sp → sp/sx
Direction: Compelled against people. Seething belligerent outsiders; 'antisocial', provoking, reverse-flow change catalysts. In some profound sense, rejecting the human condition, their own and/or that of others.

The two flows move in the opposite directions. This antithesis can be seen if the instinctual stackings are compared in pairs:

so/sx - including, associating, affiliating, networking, incorporating, interconnecting, introducing, unifying, linking, bonding, annexing, cooperating, receiving
sx/so - excluding, eliminating, dividing, separating, contradicting, subverting, confronting, rebuffing, ridiculing, challenging, interrupting, reforming, rupturing

sx/sp - intensifying, escalating, rising, surging, enlivening, invigorating, accelerating, stimulating, energizing, vitalizing, reviving, animating, inspiriting
sp/sx - dulling, calming, quieting, grounding, descending, lowering, dampening, numbing, desensitizing, exhausting, deadening, extinguishing, making still

sp/so - conserving, protecting, maintaining, preserving, supplying, repairing, sustaining, stewarding
so/sp - utilizing, employing, implementing, expending, exercising, spending, capitalizing, expropriating