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Watching today ESTJ E8 made me realize how different we are. @timeless in his article divided 8s by primary cognitive function, which I think is almost brilliant. I'm thinking more in terms first AND second function. Few types I can speak about:

Ne-Ti - verbal and keyword logical sparring, lack of physical pushing (unless there is something that has to be finished by any means necessary), disintegration to heavily thinking 5 is pronounced big time, lack of order in physical world, pushing randomly generated ideas

Ne-Fi - verbal and physical sparring based on how hi/she feels it should be, respect is a fundamental thing because this 8 is able to feel when it's present and absent, presence of strong Te helps later on but still can be easily manipulated into "helping" weaker, disintegration towards emotional 4

Te-Si - verbal bashing and physical escalation, great team leaders on lower steps of food ladder(when given orders by someone who has natural touch with intuition), later able to grasp why something has to be done because of future goals, great eye for details with short term goals, I think the common picture of an 8 points at this type

Te-Ni - verbal sparring led by bigger picture, classic CEOs, great top management that coldly is able to achieve whatever they go for, intuitive understanding of situations and ability to judge structure of a situation whether it lead towards or away from goal, for me awesome keyword future oriented public speakers
 

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Te-Ni - verbal sparring led by bigger picture, classic CEOs, great top management that coldly is able to achieve whatever they go for, intuitive understanding of situations and ability to judge structure of a situation whether it lead towards or away from goal, for me awesome keyword future oriented public speakers
When you say coldly do you meaning in a dry, methodical way? And, wouldn't you agree that instinctual variants would play a large role in the differences within Eights as well? Because I am very passionate about achieving whatever it is I go for....very passionate. ;)

Edit: However, I agree about the intuitive understanding. I think Ni amplifies the instincts of type 8. I like your write ups ... great post and look forward to others input on the topic.
 

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Watching today ESTJ E8 made me realize how different we are. @timeless in his article divided 8s by primary cognitive function, which I think is almost brilliant. I'm thinking more in terms first AND second function. Few types I can speak about:

Ne-Ti - verbal and keyword logical sparring, lack of physical pushing (unless there is something that has to be finished by any means necessary), disintegration to heavily thinking 5 is pronounced big time, lack of order in physical world, pushing randomly generated ideas

Ne-Fi - verbal and physical sparring based on how hi/she feels it should be, respect is a fundamental thing because this 8 is able to feel when it's present and absent, presence of strong Te helps later on but still can be easily manipulated into "helping" weaker, disintegration towards emotional 4

Te-Si - verbal bashing and physical escalation, great team leaders on lower steps of food ladder(when given orders by someone who has natural touch with intuition), later able to grasp why something has to be done because of future goals, great eye for details with short term goals, I think the common picture of an 8 points at this type

Te-Ni - verbal sparring led by bigger picture, classic CEOs, great top management that coldly is able to achieve whatever they go for, intuitive understanding of situations and ability to judge structure of a situation whether it lead towards or away from goal, for me awesome keyword future oriented public speakers
FP 8s have a more feminine touch and can look somewhat like 1w2s.
 

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One word about disintegration. From my experience it leads to compulsive usage of secondary function. In my case Ti which fits perfectly within frame of E5 BUT my friend ENFP E8 is acting definitely like unhealthy E4. I do think that dark side appears when primary function has been forgotten and second takes over. Normally extroversion turns into introversion.

I wonder how this looks like in case of E8 introverts? Do get deeper into yourself or do you have extroverted outbursts?

When you say coldly do you meaning in a dry, methodical way? And, wouldn't you agree that instinctual variants would play a large role in the differences within Eights as well? Because I am very passionate about achieving whatever it is I go for....very passionate. ;)

Edit: However, I agree about the intuitive understanding. I think Ni amplifies the instincts of type 8. I like your write ups ... great post and look forward to others input on the topic.
ATM instinctual variants are out of my picture. I've intended to give general frames for types. You definitely can get down to the distinctive ways of being according to variants.

FP 8s have a more feminine touch and can look somewhat like 1w2s.
I don't really think that my friend ENFP E8 looks like feminine 1w2 besides being touchy-feely (read physically dominant).

Btw. about Inuyasha I definitely can relate to quite few aspects of his psyche :)
 

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One word about disintegration. From my experience it leads to compulsive usage of secondary function. In my case Ti which fits perfectly within frame of E5 BUT my friend ENFP E8 is acting definitely like unhealthy E4. I do think that dark side appears when primary function has been forgotten and second takes over. Normally extroversion turns into introversion.
ever heard of Sean Penn? he's some sort of ?NFP 8(w7 Sx/Sp) and, while he's more dark and brooding than most 8w7s, it's not in a 4-ish way. it's more controlled with much less vulnerability to it, though, despite the fact that his demeanor is friendly and even a bit sensitive, it's easy to see the anger lying behind all of that

I wonder how this looks like in case of E8 introverts? Do get deeper into yourself or do you have extroverted outbursts?
my INTJ 8w7 Sp/Sx friend looks VERY 5-ish under stress. generally as a kid he would sit in his room planning for hours (in typical INTJ fashion, obsessing about his current project) but then something would piss him off and he'd try to kill it or get rid of it (his parents report him trying to kill dogs that growled at him on several occasions, and he succeeded a few times when he was a little older). he was very short and frail as a child (he has cystic fibrosis) and used to get picked on by bullies, but he would single them out when they were alone, extract revenge and, if faced with a much bigger kid, sometimes set traps for them. in class, on several occasions, he would walk up to the teacher, tear up his homework and say plainly "this is inconsequential". Stewie Griffin is a perfect example of his personality up until age 14 (well, a little better at speaking and having more powerful gadgets, but other than that, it's not even an exaggeration, he even tried to kill his parents a few times because they were abusive). despite all this though, he does not have an overtly "masculine" personality, and all of his friends are either ENFPs, INFPs, ISFPs or other NTJs (he hates FJs though lol). given the option, he would much rather pamper himself and enjoy his money than try to prove himself to anyone.
while he was much more vicious and violent when younger, he now directs his desire for control inward toward himself and his desire to dominate his environment toward business endeavors. the guy has a bit of a masochistic streak though. not out of self loathing or shame, but because he sometimes forgets that not all pain is good and that what doesn't kill you does not always make you stronger. the combination of introvert and 8w7 is somewhat at odds, which is why, if you catch him in the right setting, he can look a lot like an ESTP for short periods of time but then he'll retreat to his room and research for weeks at a time without speaking to anyone. the double Id combination also makes him a lot less reverent of social norms and more perverted.

ATM instinctual variants are out of my picture. I've intended to give general frames for types. You definitely can get down to the distinctive ways of being according to variants.
instinct variants play a HUGE role in this. they're worth bringing into the picture eventually


I don't really think that my friend ENFP E8 looks like feminine 1w2 besides being touchy-feely (read physically dominant).
that's just being an ENFP =)
and also instinct variants might come into play here

Btw. about Inuyasha I definitely can relate to quite few aspects of his psyche :)
I knew it ^_^
 

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One word about disintegration. From my experience it leads to compulsive usage of secondary function. In my case Ti which fits perfectly within frame of E5 BUT my friend ENFP E8 is acting definitely like unhealthy E4. I do think that dark side appears when primary function has been forgotten and second takes over. Normally extroversion turns into introversion.

I wonder how this looks like in case of E8 introverts? Do get deeper into yourself or do you have extroverted outbursts?
When I look at disintegration for 8s .... the descriptions match more closely to being in the grip of the inferior function in my case ENTJ. I don't think you can necessarily map cognitive functions individually to etypes. But, I would think disintegration would happen if anything when one has lost access to their auxiliary function not the auxiliary function overshadowing the dominant function.
 

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Ne-Ti - verbal and keyword logical sparring, lack of physical pushing (unless there is something that has to be finished by any means necessary), disintegration to heavily thinking 5 is pronounced big time, lack of order in physical world, pushing randomly generated ideas
Yes, extremely true. I knew I was 8 immediately after I read it. Though, many descriptions left me puzzled.

I think there's a strong tendency to mistake 8 with ESxP 8 as they are the most physically imposing type combination making them impossible to miss. Also, I think that's where the reputation for being physically aggressive comes in. I can be unbelievably violent but in the subtle realm of ideas. There is a strong connection with type 5 for that reason but it's almost like the 5 is working simultaneously with the 8.

I don't ever have to land a punch if I can implant a disturbing image or shatter the irrational belief in someone's head. It's like psychological control vs. physical control. Psychological control is cheaper and more efficient.

My roommate right now is a ESTP 8. When faced with the same dilemma, he becomes extremely loud whereas I become more quiet as I assess the situation from all angles and play out all the strategies and their consequence in my head and wonder what will be the most effective way to get what I want out of the situation.
 

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If you want to map enneagram more consistently to functions I'd look into socionics instead of MBTI.
 

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Ace of Spades
7w6 4w3 1w9 sp/so; Ni/Ne/Te-dom
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Different types of 8's:

7w8's
CS 3's
CP 6's
Some 9w8's

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Carry on.
 

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Ace of Spades
7w6 4w3 1w9 sp/so; Ni/Ne/Te-dom
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Ace of Spades
7w6 4w3 1w9 sp/so; Ni/Ne/Te-dom
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@Spades ... you linked me to some guy who had an idea and no sources. Got a better source?
I do, but I didn't find them off the bat. I also don't want to completely derail this thread. I will post on your wall if I find something better. I thought you just wanted a quick answer.
 
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