Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am reading up on enneagram types and will by a book soon to deepen my understanding of it. I find it quite difficult to type myself, but know for sure I'm one of the withdrawn types and that all three are in my tritype somehow. Being an INFP, I see how it's more likely that I am a 4w5 or a 9w1, and that a 9 is much more likely to mistype as a 5 than a 5 is to mistype as a 9. However, I do recognize myself in many of the traits of an 5w4, and if I were to be a 5w4 I believe undiagnosed inattentive ADHD (which I am being evaluated for) is making me appear more 9w1. I feel that I appear quite 9ish outwardly, and due to having practiced meditation and mindfulness I've adapted a lot of the happy-go-lucky traits of the 9. I've also always searched for harmony, or to find myself. Through meditation, I found a home in myself and saw "unity", and since I've always felt safe and stable, even in the midst of sadness and anxiety, perhaps making potential unhealthy traits of the 4 disappear.

I find it easier to express myself in writing as I can go back an edit before I click send. Imo I often make typos, or I discover that there's a much better way to express something; a better word to describe just exactly what I mean. I also want my text to appear neat, unless I'm mentally fatigued. Sometimes I read something I wrote back in time or I think of something I said, and I wish I could go back an edit it because I feel it made me appear foolish. I'm not sure which type this resonated with more. It's also worth mentioning that English is not my native language (but I do consider myself fluent.) When I chat I make more careless typos and am a fan of using emojis.

When I speak, I often feel like I talk aimlessly, or in a circle, and I sometimes need others to finish what I am saying. This annoys me. I'm not sure if it's ADHD related, personality related or both. Until recently - because I became aware - I have been very careful-spoken. Ending many of my statements as if they were questions. This has been connected to confidence in my own competence and it changed when I managed to boost it by suddenly becoming more disciplined with studying.

However, at the moment I'm really struggling with getting the simplest of things done, and, I end up getting hyperfocused on a video-game, enneagram typing, or sudoku even. The day passes with me not having achieved a thing, and that makes me feel shame. I am either very easily distracted or so focused on something that I do not notice external stimuli at all. This may also be related to ADHD, but because it is a spectrum, it's difficult to distinguish between a personality trait or a mental illness

I'm usually not very intense and appear very calm. It does take a lot to make me angry. Someone may act rudely towards me, and I won't give it much of a thought at first, but then as time passes and I think about it, I may get irritated or angry, or even passionately angry about it. Say that someone were sexually harassing me. Perhaps just then, I just ignore it, but then later I get bothered, then angry, but on behalf of others too that experience sexual harassment. And perhaps I'll decide to tell them off because it's the right thing to do and so that it doesn't happen to the next person they encounter. But I tend to always consider the well-being over everyone involved and never want to hurt anyone.

I can also be quite objective and emphatic and do see both sides of an argument quite easily, which can inhibit me in taking a stand. Yet, if I gather more information, I feel more secure in picking a side. Regardless, I never see anything as black-and-white.

I'm also very easy-going. I don't mind going along with other people's ideas, but am also not afraid to state my opinion when I genuinely have one. If I feel very passionate about a subject, I will get fired up in a debate and I will twist my brain to find the best arguments. I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong however. In the past I'd feel personally attacked in these situations, and particularly feel misunderstood by my parents. However, I do not ever feel the need to be understood anymore, but I think that is because I recognized that that was just my ego seeking validation.

I'm not very familiar with instinctual variants, but looking at it quickly, I believe I'd type myself as sx/sp.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
747 Posts
To me you sound like a 9. Easy-going, getting lost in activity (video-games, enneagram typing, sudoku), calm, takes a lot to make you angry, seeing both sides of an argument (!), searching for identity, (searching for harmony, meditaion)

I honestly don't see a lot of 4 or 5 in there. The 4 wants to be different and is focused on being different. The 5 will be much more focused on knowledge and understanding.

The 9 is a bit of everything. The 9 has the most difficult time to type, because the 9 sees and is everything and nothing. And they usually relate to 4 and 5, but the energy is very different in the end.

Especially if you believe to be sx first, a type 4 sx first is very, very intense and angry and jealous and that's how they come across. You don't come across like that at all. A 9 sx gets lost in a significant other, but 9s can seem sx first anyways, because all of them are about merging and being a sloth to your own, true self in different variations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your reply! In the past I felt the need to be unique and different, as well as feeling misunderstood. Yet, if I look deeper into it, maybe I wanted to be understood to feel true connection with others.

I noticed there is a want to be more like the 5 because I admire those traits in others, and those are traits I want to work on in myself. There's a want to be acknowledged as smart (which I know all the enneagram types can be of course), which is embarrassing to admit. I used to be considered so when I grew up, but it got harder to stay on top of things as I grew older because I got overwhelmed by all the information and started learning in a way too detailed manner rather than getting the basics down. At the same time I undermine my knowledge and have assumed often that others around me know more, even in areas I'm studying.

If I'm a 9, which I think is most likely, then I must admit I see neither of the nine's wings in me. How would they appear?

---

Unrelated, but I followed your instagram for some food inspo!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
I also think you sound more like a 9.
5s are more intense and analytical. 5s hide themselves behind theory, thinking and observation. 5s are observing the outside world intensely but they hide themselves behind their observation and theorizing.
5s are inside and they look out. Like their head is a tower and inside that tower there's this intense point of focus that directed outwards.
9s attention is more like it's floating around on the outside, noticing behavior, social cohesion, boundaries between people etc.
It's more oriented towards the present and usually not theoretical.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I also think you sound more like a 9.
5s are more intense and analytical. 5s hide themselves behind theory, thinking and observation. 5s are observing the outside world intensely but they hide themselves behind their observation and theorizing.
5s are inside and they look out. Like their head is a tower and inside that tower there's this intense point of focus that directed outwards.
9s attention is more like it's floating around on the outside, noticing behavior, social cohesion, boundaries between people etc.
It's more oriented towards the present and usually not theoretical.
I like the way you describe the 9 and definitely recognize myself in that. However, I think it's worth noting that I have really worked hard to be in the present moment through mindfulness and meditation. I used to be focused on past and present. Mindfulness and other healthy habits has enabled me to come out of bad depression and anxieties and accept each moment as it is. I used to retreat in my mind and into my own bubble all the time in the past, and was either observing the world as if it was a TV-show, or just not part-taking at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
I like the way you describe the 9 and definitely recognize myself in that. However, I think it's worth noting that I have really worked hard to be in the present moment through mindfulness and meditation. I used to be focused on past and present. Mindfulness and other healthy habits has enabled me to come out of bad depression and anxieties and accept each moment as it is. I used to retreat in my mind and into my own bubble all the time in the past, and was either observing the world as if it was a TV-show, or just not part-taking at all.
well, we would have to look at lines of disintegration in that case. when in stress, 9 moves to type 6. under stress 9s can become very disconnected from their emotions, become anxious, even paranoid and overthink a lot, like unhealthy 6s. 9s can be very depressed, I know several 9s who have gone through depression in some form or another.
they would still lack the intense focus of the 5, especially in that unhealthy state. and in any case, 9s can be very much "inside their head" but the quality is more dreamy and lost - like someone just drifting away in their own dream land - whereas the 5 is like a mental system builder. 5s build systems of knowledge and information, they construct interpretations of events and the world inside of their head and when unhealthy, those contructs become more and more delusional.
a 5 who's in stress goes to 7, which means that the usually calm, focussed and cerebral 5 becomes scattered, erratic and pleasure-seeking, maybe even impulsive.

a relaxed 5 (who, let's say, does a lot of mediation and mindfulness practices) would be more able and willing to engage with the real world and spend some of their precious energy, but their strength is still their clarity of mind and intensity of focus and a kind of impartial objectivity.
healthy 9s on the other hand are more in tune with their intuition and just "go with the flow". unhealthy 9s can be stubborn and inflexible and the healthy 9 will be more spontaneous and inuitive. the calm and peaceful nature of the 9 really comes out when they're relaxed and healthy; I'd describe an unhealthy 9 more as stubborn, numb and tuned out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
well, we would have to look at lines of disintegration in that case. when in stress, 9 moves to type 6. under stress 9s can become very disconnected from their emotions, become anxious, even paranoid and overthink a lot, like unhealthy 6s. 9s can be very depressed, I know several 9s who have gone through depression in some form or another.
they would still lack the intense focus of the 5, especially in that unhealthy state. and in any case, 9s can be very much "inside their head" but the quality is more dreamy and lost - like someone just drifting away in their own dream land - whereas the 5 is like a mental system builder. 5s build systems of knowledge and information, they construct interpretations of events and the world inside of their head and when unhealthy, those contructs become more and more delusional.
a 5 who's in stress goes to 7, which means that the usually calm, focussed and cerebral 5 becomes scattered, erratic and pleasure-seeking, maybe even impulsive.

a relaxed 5 (who, let's say, does a lot of mediation and mindfulness practices) would be more able and willing to engage with the real world and spend some of their precious energy, but their strength is still their clarity of mind and intensity of focus and a kind of impartial objectivity.
healthy 9s on the other hand are more in tune with their intuition and just "go with the flow". unhealthy 9s can be stubborn and inflexible and the healthy 9 will be more spontaneous and inuitive. the calm and peaceful nature of the 9 really comes out when they're relaxed and healthy; I'd describe an unhealthy 9 more as stubborn, numb and tuned out.
Thanks for more input! I'm pretty sure I'm a 9 now, and with a stronger 1 wing than 8 wing, but neither very developed. I'm just starting to look into tritypes and would assume then, that I'm a 954 or 945. I do notice at challenging situations I can "switch" or move to a different way of handling things, perhaps more like how a 5 would, or at other time, how a 4 would. Or when I face situations that can be solved in a purely logical way for example, I'll switch into a systematic and clear way of thinking (like a 5?) that feels quite separate from how I go through daily tasks most of the time. Does that make sense?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Thanks for more input! I'm pretty sure I'm a 9 now, and with a stronger 1 wing than 8 wing, but neither very developed. I'm just starting to look into tritypes and would assume then, that I'm a 954 or 945. I do notice at challenging situations I can "switch" or move to a different way of handling things, perhaps more like how a 5 would, or at other time, how a 4 would. Or when I face situations that can be solved in a purely logical way for example, I'll switch into a systematic and clear way of thinking (like a 5?) that feels quite separate from how I go through daily tasks most of the time. Does that make sense?
I personally don't buy into tritypes at all. It's a reinvention of the Enneagram by Katherine Fauvre that I don't find helpful at all. Most Enneagram teachers (Don Riso, Russ Hudson, Richard Rohr, Helen Palmer...) don't talk about tritypes; the wings, the three instinctual variants and the lines of stress and growth give more than enough depth and dynamism to the system. Having 3 types, each with wings etc., is complicating things unnecessarily and making things more convoluted and unclear. the enneagram is about core fears and motivation, not about accounting for every little nuance.
9, 4 and 5 are three types of the "withdrawn triad", which basically means that they are the most introverted types (generally speaking), so they can be confused for one another easily.
In my opinion the 1 wing is more than enough to explain why you would have a tendency to think clearly and logically. 5s hoard information and construct theories and explanations that are basically irrelevant to any kind of pracitical application. They use that to "shield" themselves from the world.
1s are more practical and grounded but they will also prefer to think rationally and clearly. They can also be very theoretical, but they are usually less abstract and more straight-forward in their thinking. 5s theories and concepts can be very outlandish and eccentric - it doesn't have to make any sense for anyone but them. 1 usually follow a more common-sense approach and are more conservative and down to earth, but they still like things orderly, rational and logical. So that will apply for a 9w1 aswell, except the 9w1 will use that capacity only from time to time, or in specific situations.
In my experience 9w1s can be easy going, lazy and even sloppy, but they will have little things where their 1-wing will want to impose order and reason. For example a 9w1 could have a totally messy and disorganized apartment, but they might be extremely meticulous about how EXACTLY the dishes are supposed to be done or how one particular drawer is organized or something like that. They can be very meticulous and even obsessive about little things like that, while overall still being sloppy and maybe even a little careless about many things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
I'd also guess a 9. It's possible to have no wing, or both wings, fyi. Fwiw I find tritype theory useful. I also like the concept of health levels -- be wary when someone claims a type is inherently dysfunctional, it's only people stuck at an unhealthy range who are overly fixated in the dark recesses of their core type.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
16 Posts
I'd also guess a 9. It's possible to have no wing, or both wings, fyi. Fwiw I find tritype theory useful. I also like the concept of health levels -- be wary when someone claims a type is inherently dysfunctional, it's only people stuck at an unhealthy range who are overly fixated in the dark recesses of their core type.
True.

But can you share why that is happening to them? Why the fixation?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I personally don't buy into tritypes at all. It's a reinvention of the Enneagram by Katherine Fauvre that I don't find helpful at all. Most Enneagram teachers (Don Riso, Russ Hudson, Richard Rohr, Helen Palmer...) don't talk about tritypes; the wings, the three instinctual variants and the lines of stress and growth give more than enough depth and dynamism to the system. Having 3 types, each with wings etc., is complicating things unnecessarily and making things more convoluted and unclear. the enneagram is about core fears and motivation, not about accounting for every little nuance.
9, 4 and 5 are three types of the "withdrawn triad", which basically means that they are the most introverted types (generally speaking), so they can be confused for one another easily.
.
Based on the research I've done so far, the tritype theory help me understand myself more than if I were to only look at the 9 or 9w1 alone. I also read somewhere that only the core is supposed to have wings. The way you describe 5 vs 1 here for example, makes me relate to the 5 more. I love thinking of outlandish theories, or even just making up fiction - that still sort of make sense - in my mind, and that I would have a hard time explaining. It may also be quite abstract. Yet, I'd try conveying it - if it's good - in writing. However, you said the 9w1 may be very messy and a bit lazy, but then want this specific thing done in a specific way; yes that's me. I have a hard time getting my life together (and am in fact being evaluated for ADD.) I'm also quite idealistic (w1?) and prone to occasionally wanting to spice up my life with an adventure (w8?).

When reading or taking enneagram tests 9, 5 and 4 score very high and at an almost equal level. I do recognize myself in the 4s shame and 5s fear - and in many cases fear of incompetence. Although I also just learned that a sx 9 can look like a 4 in some ways, so that might explain some of the confusion. Regardless, I'm pretty sure I'm a 9, but reading up on the 4 and 5 (and the triptype itself) seems like it might just help me even more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I'd also guess a 9. It's possible to have no wing, or both wings, fyi. Fwiw I find tritype theory useful. I also like the concept of health levels -- be wary when someone claims a type is inherently dysfunctional, it's only people stuck at an unhealthy range who are overly fixated in the dark recesses of their core type.
Thanks for your input! I think I've landed on the 9 now. The more I read up on it, the more sense it makes.

I see more of the 1 wing in me, but neither are that present. I do still think that the tritype theory will be more helpful than only considering the 9 alone.

And, thanks for the heads up on the health levels. I used to be very unhealthy in the past and can recognize myself in various stages of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,296 Posts
I'd also guess a 9. It's possible to have no wing, or both wings, fyi. Fwiw I find tritype theory useful. I also like the concept of health levels -- be wary when someone claims a type is inherently dysfunctional, it's only people stuck at an unhealthy range who are overly fixated in the dark recesses of their core type.
Haven't really posted in the thread because I don't have much to say except I also think the poster is a 9, but I have to say that I completely agree with your whole post and think it's the perfect thing to say to someone that is new to enneagram.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Haven't really posted in the thread because I don't have much to say except I also think the poster is a 9, but I have to say that I completely agree with your whole post and think it's the perfect thing to say to someone that is new to enneagram.
After some more time reading about the enneagram it's clear to me that I'm quite obviously a 9. And indeed, that was really a good thing to point out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,164 Posts
If I'm a 9, which I think is most likely, then I must admit I see neither of the nine's wings in me. How would they appear?
Do you see wings of types 4 or 5?

If you are sure about 9, I would guess 9w1 based on your explanation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Do you see wings of types 4 or 5?

If you are sure about 9, I would guess 9w1 based on your explanation.
I don't see what the wings of type 4 or 5 would be...Before I landed on 9, I was considering myself to be 4w5 or 5w4, but now realizing I am a 9 for sure, I just see that 4 and 5 are both most likely in my tritype, perhaps I am 9w1-5-4.

Yes, I've read up on the 9s wings and see the 9w1 more clearly than 9w8. I am quite idealistic and there are certain personal morals or, principles, I want to stick to. Whilst I can be quite messy, there is a tendency to be perfectionistic in certain situations. I also think I am more reserved and withdrawn than a typical 9w8 (though, if I also have 4 and/or 5 in my tritype, then that might also explain this tendency). There is an occasional desire to do something out of my comfort zone, such as extreme sports or traveling to a completely new place. It makes me feel incredibly alive. To me, this sounds a bit like the 8 wing giving me a little kick once in a blue moon? :) I also notice my mental health and energy levels improving when I stay quite physically active (i.e. working out 5-6 times a week or so), although this doesn't really come natural to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,164 Posts
I don't see what the wings of type 4 or 5 would be....
Wings of type 4 are: 3 and 5

Wings ofo type 5 are: 4 and 6

There is an occasional desire to do something out of my comfort zone, such as extreme sports or traveling to a completely new place. It makes me feel incredibly alive. To me, this sounds a bit like the 8 wing giving me a little kick once in a blue moon?
This sounds more like a 7 to me

I also notice my mental health and energy levels improving when I stay quite physically active
Yeah I think almost everyone is like that lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Wings of type 4 are: 3 and 5

Wings ofo type 5 are: 4 and 6



This sounds more like a 7 to me



Yeah I think almost everyone is like that lol
Oh yes, I know the wings of 4 and 5, I just wasn't sure what they'd be in my tritype. I did read somewhere that the fixes aren't supposed to have wings, but I do not know why.

I do think I score relatively high on the traits of the 7, but they're traits that occur one in a blue moon, so if anything, I should consider it in my last fix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
747 Posts
4w3 is not what you think of a stereotypical 4. More out there, more into working and getting stuff done and being seen as nice and good. 4w3 and 3 aren't thaaat different. Imagine Micheal Jackson. Popstar, out there, working a lot, image, glamorous but if you actually take your time to look deeper you see a lot of shame, pain and not so dark ways to cope with that (Neverland). They also usually don't let out all of their darkness. They just hint it. Prince is also a good example.

The 4w5 is more darker, withdrawn, introverted. The energy is more inward. Doesn't care about being liked or famous or popular in general. Possibly more into intelligence and knowledge. Kurt Cobain is a pretty good example, but if you want a even more obvious one take Marilyn Manson.

I don't know enough about the 5 wings to feel comfortable to give one of those "stereotype explanations"... :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
4w3 is not what you think of a stereotypical 4. More out there, more into working and getting stuff done and being seen as nice and good. 4w3 and 3 aren't thaaat different. Imagine Micheal Jackson. Popstar, out there, working a lot, image, glamorous but if you actually take your time to look deeper you see a lot of shame, pain and not so dark ways to cope with that (Neverland). They also usually don't let out all of their darkness. They just hint it. Prince is also a good example.

The 4w5 is more darker, withdrawn, introverted. The energy is more inward. Doesn't care about being liked or famous or popular in general. Possibly more into intelligence and knowledge. Kurt Cobain is a pretty good example, but if you want a even more obvious one take Marilyn Manson.

I don't know enough about the 5 wings to feel comfortable to give one of those "stereotype explanations"... :p
Thanks for your reply! I do not see much 4w3 in me then! More 4w5, if I have a 4 in me...
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top