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Discussion Starter #1
Ok. I have this INTJ friend that I've talked about a lot on this forum.

I've had an extremely on again, off again friendship with her.

Here are salient features of the relationship:

- She always considered me a greater friend than I considered her. Her feelings were borderline romantic, and at many times it seemed they were
- We never had a real falling out of any kind. Last I saw her was at her wedding.
- Prior to this however, we had a long history which included the fact that she came to all the events I ever invited her to [and I did the same for her].
- When her father died, I was going through an extremely stressful time with my wife [we were on the verge of a divorce] so I was not "there" for her as a friend should
- I once went to visit her at her house but her sister received us instead and she was beyond rude to me at that point pretty much telling me off for being a "bad" friend.

Ok ... so maybe I was - but I don't care because at that time I was going through a tough time of my own and I had every right to be selfish. We exchanged emails after my divorce and everything was set right once again - till recently.

Recently, she had a kid and I found out through my mother. I have been extremely busy last week so I haven't had a chance to congratulate her.

Weird thing is that this INTJ friend of mine called my mom, got one of her sisters to call my mom, and her other sister [the one who was rude] recently added me on Facebook and dropped off an extremely rude message as follows:

[INTJ] had baby boy
wants you to call
[phone number].

I swear I wanna chew her out for her rudeness. Also, my INTJ friend has my e-mail address --- so why the fuck is she contacting me through other people?

What's the best response in this case?
 

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I don't see that message as rude, myself... I mean, it is rather short and to the point, but some people are just blunt like that.

It's weird that she wants you to call her. I don't know what to make of that, tbh. Do you value your friendship with her? If you do, I'd call her and see what she wants and then if you want to bring up your beef with her to tell her how displeased you are with her conduct you could do it afterward.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Get new fucking friends.

Oh, and welcome back, again! :cool: In case you didn't get my message, you're an ENFP now, it's official! :tongue:
^^Well, I've already gotten new friends, and I had moved on from this friendship [in fact, I've done so at least 5 times in the last 7 years] - but it's one of those straggling ones where I want to move on - but the INTJ apparently loves to involve her, and my family in what ought to really be just our exclusive friendship :rolleyes:

She's done this in the past as well. One time we had some sort of an argument at University, and she drove all the way over to my house with her mom to apologize. And I didn't even think she needed to apologize for anything. I thought it was a great gesture at that point. But I'm noticing that it's been her trend over the years.

I don't mind dealing with any issue she has with me personally, but what bothers me is the use of her sister to get her messages [if any] across to me.

I'm even considering the possibility that her sisters are acting of their own accord which makes the situation silly as I've only met her sister 4 or 5 times - one of them being a very, very negative interaction in front of my ex-wife.

It is also entirely possible that the INTJ could have spent a lot of time complaining about how I've been a "bad friend" in front of her sisters, and somehow this particular sister is on a crusade to get me to behave in a way that would keep her sister happy. I think it's a little controlling in a manipulative way. Especially considering that the INTJ has my email address - and knows that I'm not in Pakistan anymore.

Oh .. and I'm as much an ENFP as you're an ENTP ;)

PS. I'm using INTJ not as an indicator of type and type related behaviour - but because I don't want to use her real name.

I don't see that message as rude, myself... I mean, it is rather short and to the point, but some people are just blunt like that.

It's weird that she wants you to call her. I don't know what to make of that, tbh. Do you value your friendship with her? If you do, I'd call her and see what she wants and then if you want to bring up your beef with her to tell her how displeased you are with her conduct you could do it afterward.
Nah. This girl wasn't this blunt till after her father's death. In fact, she was extremely polite and endearing. I know exactly what her real personality is and this particular message is clearly rude and intentionally so. I rarely doubt my intuition when it comes to the intent and motive of people because there's a lot of past interactions to draw from.

I had a feeling that it was going to go like this as soon as I saw her friend request [which I had the urge to ignore at that point - but I did hoping that before her eventual message dropped in, I'll get a chance to write to her sister - which I feel I didn't need to as I feel that she ought to have written to me letting me know she had the kid].

I also think that she's trying to provoke a negative response from me - but I'll be damned if I show something like that to anyone.

I just need ideas on how to approach this in a way where no one gets hurt. Funny thing is - my interactions with INTJ are extremely pleasant, and friendly --- always have been ... but first it was my ex that polluted our relationship - and now it seems like her sister is doing the same.

Perhaps, I should say that to her sister? That her interference is making my interactions with INTJ more difficult - and actually damaging them?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I also want to keep my interactions with INTJ healthy, but remove her sister from my friends' list.

Now that has a whole set of interesting consequences as well. A total catch 22. Her sister seems like a whiner. If I hadn't added her, she would've complained about it to her sister. If I remove her, she's gonna complain to the INTJ about it. What a load of crock. I don't want anything to do with INTJ's sister but she keeps involving herself.
 
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^^Well, I've already gotten new friends, and I had moved on from this friendship [in fact, I've done so at least 5 times in the last 7 years] - but it's one of those straggling ones where I want to move on - but the INTJ apparently loves to involve her, and my family in what ought to really be just our exclusive friendship :rolleyes:

She's done this in the past as well. One time we had some sort of an argument at University, and she drove all the way over to my house with her mom to apologize. And I didn't even think she needed to apologize for anything. I thought it was a great gesture at that point. But I'm noticing that it's been her trend over the years.

I don't mind dealing with any issue she has with me personally, but what bothers me is the use of her sister to get her messages [if any] across to me.

I'm even considering the possibility that her sisters are acting of their own accord which makes the situation silly as I've only met her sister 4 or 5 times - one of them being a very, very negative interaction in front of my ex-wife.

It is also entirely possible that the INTJ could have spent a lot of time complaining about how I've been a "bad friend" in front of her sisters, and somehow this particular sister is on a crusade to get me to behave in a way that would keep her sister happy. I think it's a little controlling in a manipulative way. Especially considering that the INTJ has my email address - and knows that I'm not in Pakistan anymore.

Oh .. and I'm as much an ENFP as you're an ENTP ;)

PS. I'm using INTJ not as an indicator of type and type related behaviour - but because I don't want to use her real name.
It sounds like your INTJ is VERY passive aggressive OR the problem is her sister acting on her behalf, most likely without her knowledge. I don't know about all INTJs, but I'm VERY direct. If I had an issue with one of my friends, I would address it directly. It sounds to me like the problem here is her sister. She sounds like she is either a crazy person acting on her own, or she is a very weak-minded person who allows herself to be her sister's pawn.

And your flip-flopping behavior with the retiring unretiring retiring again tells me that you're a P! Accept it brother! :tongue: You're an ENFP, that is why you love me so much and want to have my babies! :shocked::crazy::laughing::cool::tongue: You're an ENFP, I'm an INTJ, you can't help it! :wink::kitteh::happy::ninja:

Don't worry, I won't report you for your offensive typist comments about INTJs! Though I AM tempted! :dry::shocked::crazy::tongue::laughing::cool:
 

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Call her. Somewhere in the conversation just mention that you don't like it when she contacts you through other people.

"Hey! Your sister let me know that you wanted me to call you! It would have been nice for you to contact me instead. Congrats on the baby boy! <insert other parts of the conversation> So next time just call me! Bye!"
 

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...one of my INTJ and one of my ISTJ is like this. LOL.

I just keep myself detached and let them fuss over things. IDK about you, but what I do is show them that I also have a life to bother with and if they don't chill out, I won't mind them. My INTJ and ISTJ has both been given my cold and silent treatment and their parents even called my mom because it seems like I'm "detaching" from them. I tell my mom that they're suffocating me and my mom, being an ENFJ as well, tries to reason out with me but when I explain to her, she gets my point. I don't really like suffocating relationships and when people get too clingy, I show them shivering cold.

In the end, once they finally realize that they've been to obsessive over me, I talk with them once in a while. When they start to be clingy again, I detach a little again and keep the relationship in a steady pace. ISTJ doesn't bother much anymore since I think they realize what I'm doing already (actually, she wrote a letter thanking me because she realized that if I didn't do that, she'd be too dependent on me and wouldn't survive college), but I believe INTJ is a little confused even until now. Which is odd cause I'd expect the opposite, but yeah.

INTJ questions me a lot to why I'm like this, I just tell them that I'm too busy with things and that I can't always give my attention to her. I mean, I also have other friends and even if it would hurt her to hear that, I'd rather that I detach from her to keep the relationship "healthy." It usually hurts me inside to turn people away, but if it's what is needed, then I will do it.

I'd tell you my ISTJ experience, but it's long and unless you really want me to narrate it, then I would. XD It's VERY similar to this and she even used her mom, one of our friends and her sisters to relay messages to me. XDD It's flattering that she loves me so much, but it's tiring too.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
And your flip-flopping behavior with the retiring unretiring retiring again tells me that you're a P! Accept it brother! :tongue: You're an ENFP, that is why you love me so much and want to have my babies! :shocked::crazy::laughing::cool::tongue: You're an ENFP, I'm an INTJ, you can't help it! :wink::kitteh::happy::ninja:
You were right. INTJ is the one who's really direct. I dunno what her sister's deal is. I need to put her in her place though. I just sent her an "Ok. Thanks. I already knew." in response.

She wants to be cold, she'll get liquid nitrogen in response.

Whatever, I'm done worrying about idiots in my life, especially idiots who've done nothing to benefit me except whine and bitch about how they think I neglect them. They ought to know the friendships are about reciprocation and respect.

It's not like she or her sister stuck around to even ask how I was doing after my decade long relationship came to an end. And suddenly they want me to call to congratulate her when she herself made no attempt to contact me.

Oh -- and I'm actually an INTJ too ;)

Call her. Somewhere in the conversation just mention that you don't like it when she contacts you through other people.

"Hey! Your sister let me know that you wanted me to call you! It would have been nice for you to contact me instead. Congrats on the baby boy! <insert other parts of the conversation> So next time just call me! Bye!"
That would be the old Jawz response. Honestly, I'm done being nice to people who are so openly disrespectful to me. If my cold response ends the friendship ... so be it. Sometimes I like to have certain relationships on my terms. And I get especially annoyed when people who are related to my friends get involved. Heck, I used to get that way when my in-laws would interfere b/w my ex and I. But thanks though. I definitely would've handled that situation in that way if the friendship had been important to me. It just isn't. Not anymore. What's stopping her meddling sister from provoking me another time. This is the second time in as many years.

...one of my INTJ and one of my ISTJ is like this. LOL.

I just keep myself detached and let them fuss over things. IDK about you, but what I do is show them that I also have a life to bother with and if they don't chill out, I won't mind them. My INTJ and ISTJ has both been given my cold and silent treatment and their parents even called my mom because it seems like I'm "detaching" from them. I tell my mom that they're suffocating me and my mom, being an ENFJ as well, tries to reason out with me but when I explain to her, she gets my point. I don't really like suffocating relationships and when people get too clingy, I show them shivering cold.

In the end, once they finally realize that they've been to obsessive over me, I talk with them once in a while. When they start to be clingy again, I detach a little again and keep the relationship in a steady pace. ISTJ doesn't bother much anymore since I think they realize what I'm doing already (actually, she wrote a letter thanking me because she realized that if I didn't do that, she'd be too dependent on me and wouldn't survive college), but I believe INTJ is a little confused even until now. Which is odd cause I'd expect the opposite, but yeah.

INTJ questions me a lot to why I'm like this, I just tell them that I'm too busy with things and that I can't always give my attention to her. I mean, I also have other friends and even if it would hurt her to hear that, I'd rather that I detach from her to keep the relationship "healthy." It usually hurts me inside to turn people away, but if it's what is needed, then I will do it.

I'd tell you my ISTJ experience, but it's long and unless you really want me to narrate it, then I would. XD It's VERY similar to this and she even used her mom, one of our friends and her sisters to relay messages to me. XDD It's flattering that she loves me so much, but it's tiring too.
The bolded part is extremely true of me. In addition, I can be pretty self-centered at times as well. My relationship with INTJ was never really unhealthy. But there were always outside players involved. It was the best friendship I experienced over a period of 2 years. It never turned toxic ... but I was never that into her to begin with. On the flip, she was a lot more devoted and dedicated to me.

I suppose that's completely my own fault, because I have a stupid way of getting too close to someone too quickly and then moving on. It's something I've worked on recently and am growing in a more positive direction.

I'm much more dedicated long-term -- and my problem is that for me 5 months to a year out of contact doesn't change anything as far as my positive feelings for my friends are concerned. I have gone 4-5 years being out of touch with someone and picking up right where I left off after that amount of time. I don't expect my friend(s) to be the same way of course and am ever-willing to face the consequences of my flakiness ... but I don't like being controlled either. I suppose that comes across as selfish to other people --- but the way I see it ... if you're not there for me in the worst of times for me, then I'm not there for you in your best of times. It's really that simple.
 

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Yep, it's the same with me. I actually told one of my ENFJ friends (she was starting to be clingy) that if one day, I suddenly stop talking to her or I don't talk to her as often, she should take it as something positive. That means that I treat her as a really good friend, but I need to expand my horizons, meet new people and get closer with others. Which is how I see myself as. It's the main reason why I have a LOT of sets of friends and never really spend a day with the same sets of people.

For a lot of people, this may be really bad since I seem to ignore others and just go to them when the fun times are at, but that's not true. If I make a friendship with a person, I make sure I'm there even through thick or thin. In fact, I made a new friend yesterday and even if she's a new friend, I brought her home because it was raining hard and she had no ride getting back. My friends and I also watched Hunger Games yesterday and I bought tickets for them and their friends from other places that I have never met. They paid me, but still; that's how dedicated I am to people. I care a lot for people even if they're new or not.

I'm very happy that my first set of friends in my life never really spent that much together. We were all so busy with our own lives that online is the only place we can technically be all together at the same time. That didn't hinder us from being really great friends and it actually became a proving ground for our friendship. If it was a circle that needed maintenance, I doubt it would survive college since we are all in different schools and a few of us studied abroad. We kind of understood without saying anything; understood that we all can't just keep on spending time with each other and that we all have lives to take care of.

My ENFP friend even told me this; "Our relationship doesn't need time together. It's a mutual understanding that we share and know within us. We know that even if we never really spend time together, we love each other and that's never going to change."

My ENFP friend also has different sets of friends, but we're like sisters and probably the closest relationship we have had next to our moms. Most likely closer. We rarely speak with each other though, but each time we're together, we cherish the moment so much. I guess to me, that kind of relationship is better than being with the person all the time.

And yes, I also have this idea that once a person is a friend, they're always a friend. Even if we don't talk for YEARS, just as long as they haven't tried to hurt my other friends intentionally or try to destroy someone else I care about's life, then they will forever remain as a friend. Even if they change, I will still accept them if they're good to me. My other friends don't understand why I can talk to people I knew and haven't talked to forever without awkwardness, but I'm just really like that.




I guess we can say that the irony is this: We love people so much, too much that we tend to seem detached from our other friends to meet new ones and do the same to them.
 

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....................
I guess we can say that the irony is this: We love people so much, too much that we tend to seem detached from our other friends to meet new ones and do the same to them.
Geesh, I'm beggining to thing I might be a bit ENFJ too, lol :)) I do some of the things you do, like buying tickets for others and them paying me back later, sometimes I am too optimistic though and end up with tickets I give for free so at least somebody enjoys them. (I kind of stopped that now though) Or trying to meet new people, but probably not as often as you do...though last month has been different, met like 100 different people and got to know the names and some things of at least 20 and maybe even started 1-3 friendships...who knows...

I do value closer relationship though, I mean, yeah, you're relationships sound deep too, I have the same relationship you have with your ENFP friends with other ENFP girl-friends...but I value more and want to keep close to those friends who can offer me that. My best friends, I want to hang out and do things with them as often as possible, even if I do value meeting new people too, I am keener on spending time with my close ones. Maybe this is a Fi versus Fe big difference. I don't suffocate my close friends, but if I find an interesting event to attend, they're the first on my list who I want to get to come with me. The rest I may not even ask to come, even if I consider them good friends, especially if like you they seem distant to me. I will still value their friendship and appreciate what they bring in my life, but I will spend less energy with them compared to the amount of energy I will spend with me or friends who can appreciate my closeness with them.

So basically, I think everybody will get whatever they seek out of their friendships.

Plus, what I learned is to not expect from people what I want, instead I tell them (because nobody reads minds) and if they can give it to me cool, if not I either accept them like that or not and move on. It's that simple...though there are a lot more emotions than I am saying here. People are different, I can't expect them to behave like me or how I want them unless it comes natural to them.



@Jawz : You should try to communicate with your INTJ friend, usually with the INTJs I know communication was the main issue I encountered. They are lovable and capable of deep feelings, but sometimes we weren't on the same wavelength and if we could not talk about it (bad communication), sometimes it got worse. INTJs are not that good with communication, in fact introverts (me included) don't easily communicate unless they feel really comfortable with the situation and the person or they get a "kick in the proverbial ass" to do it. I think it takes a lot of our energy to do that. But you should do only what you want/feel to...I realise you may be low on energy levels this moment, so you can do it when you feel you have enough energy to do it and explain to them why you had to be away. If they care about you and accept you, they will understand, but you also have to take into consideration that the relationship may be lost or get colder. (be prepared to lose them)
 

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Hmmm *sigh* id say just call her, give her a typical congratulations...a 'cold' one. hah....or maybe you could tell her sister to tell the INTJ that you wish her congratulations :p (i bet shell indirectly get the message)
 

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@Jawz

why do you think you were being a bad friend? you needed to take care of number one - you. don't let anyone manipulate you like that. you still have to maintain your life, in order to help others maintain theirs. it's also not your job to be there for anyone, its a choice. her sister is irrational. you don't need to be around people like this. you make that decision. google emotional vampires.

also what was rude about her sending you the message? i am having a hard time seeing how that was rude.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
also what was rude about her sending you the message? i am having a hard time seeing how that was rude.
Tone, shortness of message, lack of salutations [especially considering this was the first message from her in 1.5 years], plus the last meeting with her ended on a sour note. That gives away actual intent.

She acknowledged her rude-ness in the subsequent message despite my bringing it to her attention - and tried to make it up by being overly nice.

I just have a way of being able to pick up things like this.

Anyways .. this thread is moot. I actually took the advice I got in the thread .. applied it .. and smoothed things over with my INTJ friend. We're back on great terms again and have picked up exactly where we left off :)
 

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@Jawz

i am noticing a pattern where extroverts' assume shortness to be rude. when it's not. sometimes people don't feel the need to exasperate a long diagloue when it can be summed up in one sentences or less. do you think receiving a short message is rude? i really am curious.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
@Jawz

i am noticing a pattern where extroverts' assume shortness to be rude. when it's not. sometimes people don't feel the need to exasperate a long diagloue when it can be summed up in one sentences or less. do you think receiving a short message is rude? i really am curious.
No, I don't assume this for "everyone" that ever sends me a "short" message.

It was a judgement made for a specific person in a specific circumstance.
 
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