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Do you struggle at effectively expressing out loud complex ideas or analysis that you've come up with in the less restricting context of your psyche?

I sometimes find myself wanting to state something, explain an argument/thought/observation further, and though it made perfect logical sense in my thinking process, the words I use in the hopes of conveying my thoughts in a way that accurately reflects what I wanted to say are, most of time, unsatisfying. I find it truly abhorrent, since it constantly leads to others misunderstanding me, making stupid assumptions and/or giving me false intentions. I've come to simply not speak up when I feel I won't be communicating my perceptions well enough, which is also problematic.

A fellow INTJ I frequently discuss with has experienced similar... difficulties. Is it a simple matter of personal self-criticism and perfectionism or it's possible this phenomenon is actually quite a common thing amongst our particular type?
 

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A fellow INTJ I frequently discuss with has experienced similar... difficulties. Is it a simple matter of personal self-criticism and perfectionism or it's possible this phenomenon is actually quite a common thing amongst our particular type?
Some of both probably.

IME, INTJs (among other Te types) are not the best at using precise language. While the Ti heavy types, like INTP or ESTP seem to be naturals at finding the most accurate word to convey something.

I mean, I can't begin to count the number of times I've gotten into trouble with Ti types because I use the wrong word and they get all anal about it.
 

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It really bothers me when I do this. I'll want to share a thought with a friend and when I say it, it's not the same thing as what I was thinking about and so sparks off a conversation about the wrong kind of topic. Because of this, I can end up correcting myself as I'm speaking so I can cut those moments down.

In writing, I'm mostly fine, but speaking isn't my strong point.
 
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This is a topic that comes up a lot here.

What it comes down to is that INTJs don't tend to think in words. Our thoughts are abstract and nebulous, so in order to convey an idea to others, we must first try to translate it into human speech. Then we need to condense a very complex string of connections into a couple of simple sentences.

End result is that a very elegant idea comes out sounding muddled and inaccurate compared to what it started as in our heads.

With writing we have more time to choose the best words, edit and polish. It's a much better medium for INTJs to accurately convey our message.
 

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Yes, I usually tend to state one single sentence explaining sometimes the most complex concept. I've got so good at this I frequently get complimented for it. Unfortunately it also means I can't write essays or assignments anymore as I can sum the entire thing up in the first sentence (lol) and the rest is rambling trying but failing to expand properly on the point.

I can explain more though if I feel an opening in the conversation to do so or if the other person wants to explore it more with me. So it has to be a two way thing. For example if they ask questions or make observations about a specific thought process which I can add to. But if it's just me stating something, then it tends to be a single sentence.

There's also the fact that I rarely speak on something I don't know, whilst most of things I do know are irrelevant for most people anyway. So I find K.I.S.S. always works best. Keep it simple stupid.
 

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I have a similar problem. When i am speaking about something i usually have two options:
1. Dumb it down so others can understand it, but it often loses some key variables and it no longer means excatly what i meant to say, but they understand it a bit.
2. Say everything i want to say using proffesional terms they do not understand, that way the meaning is not altered but they are confused
I often feel that i had larger vocabulary i would be able to do both. Putting thoughts in words so everyone can understand it is quite hard for me.
 

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What it comes down to is that INTJs don't tend to think in words. Our thoughts are abstract and nebulous, so in order to convey an idea to others, we must first try to translate it into human speech. Then we need to condense a very complex string of connections into a couple of simple sentences.
This is my favorite explanation ever, because it's so true.

My thoughts move so fast that I can't keep up with them. I know what they all mean but when I have to explain them they all rush at my mouth trying to come out at once. It's very difficult for me to accurately convey this to other people.

Something that I found works for me if I have to give a presentation (I'm very good at public speaking as long as it's a topic I'm knowledgable about) is to write down "hints" of what to say, in the order in which I need to say it. I never write down full paragraphs or sentences (it annoys me when people are clearly just reading off of a slide, I find it hard to focus on what they're saying), but rather words or cues to pull thoughts from my head in a coherent stream. For example a presentation I need to do in a few weeks, I've written down:

Dynamic vs. Static
-- Landing page vs. Search page
-- Hard Code vs. CMS

Design vs. Point/Click
-- Photoshop uses
-- Pre-Photoshop History
-- Visual examples

etc. When I see each of my cues on the slide I remember, "Oh, yep. I'm supposed to talk about THIS thing now, and this thing will have to wait for later." It allows me to speak openly without having to rely on a pre-written text, and I can be more engaging with the people that I'm speaking to because I'm not focusing on a slide.

If I don't plan things like this ahead of time, all hell breaks loose when I open my mouth. I offered a complaint about a coworker to management a few months ago and I'm pretty sure I just sounded like a crazy person -- everything tried to come out at once.

"She did this condescending patronizing when she speaks to me and the other day with the design, didn't trust me and told me like I was lying to her and said YOU'RE INTENSE it's very jarring and rude and she has no manners, also is personally offensive YOU SERIOUSLY THINK YOU'RE EVER GONNA FIND A BOYFRIEND for 40 minutes at my desk! So in conclusion she is a problem." Shit, I sound insane.
 

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I struggle with making coherent sentences even when the topic which I am talking about is clear in my head. Its even worse if I dont know what Im talking about. The sentences I do make summarize everything about the subject.

For example, In essays or written texts I tend to sum up any idea in one sentence and then start explaining every single detail about it in full length. Because of that my answers tend to be vague and too long.

See those underlined sentences? I didnt even consider making multiple sentences to voice the same ideas. In italics is the pointless explanation I added.
 

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Yes, I usually tend to state one single sentence explaining sometimes the most complex concept. I've got so good at this I frequently get complimented for it. Unfortunately it also means I can't write essays or assignments anymore as I can sum the entire thing up in the first sentence (lol) and the rest is rambling trying but failing to expand properly on the point.

I can explain more though if I feel an opening in the conversation to do so or if the other person wants to explore it more with me. So it has to be a two way thing. For example if they ask questions or make observations about a specific thought process which I can add to. But if it's just me stating something, then it tends to be a single sentence.

There's also the fact that I rarely speak on something I don't know, whilst most of things I do know are irrelevant for most people anyway. So I find K.I.S.S. always works best. Keep it simple stupid.
Oh the K.I.S.S. principle. As I've gotten older I've learned that that is usually the best advice when trying to explain myself to others. Quite often I find myself start to try to explain something, realize they aren't going to understand, so I simplify it. Occasionally those that know me know I'm simplifying it, and get mad at me for thinking they wouldn't understand, and if they do complain I'll explain what I was actually thinking. Then they don't understand and get mad at me for being too complicated or thoughtful or whatever you want to call it. You just can't win usually haha
 

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Yes, I usually tend to state one single sentence explaining sometimes the most complex concept. I've got so good at this I frequently get complimented for it. Unfortunately it also means I can't write essays or assignments anymore as I can sum the entire thing up in the first sentence (lol) and the rest is rambling trying but failing to expand properly on the point.
This. This is why I have such a hard time writing papers.
 

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This is a topic that comes up a lot here.

What it comes down to is that INTJs don't tend to think in words. Our thoughts are abstract and nebulous, so in order to convey an idea to others, we must first try to translate it into human speech. Then we need to condense a very complex string of connections into a couple of simple sentences.

End result is that a very elegant idea comes out sounding muddled and inaccurate compared to what it started as in our heads.

With writing we have more time to choose the best words, edit and polish. It's a much better medium for INTJs to accurately convey our message.
I agree with this statement in regards to INTJs :).
 
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