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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been going to therapy trying to figure out why i have no friends or family an what i can do to change it. Today i took the jung personality test with my college advisor and found out i'm an ENTJ. upon further reading i read about difficulties ENTJ's especially women have relating in the world. we were called 'reluctant loners' and that pretty much describes me. Anyone else struggling with making and keeping friendships? Anyone with advice to overcome this?
 

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Your personality doesnt match you gender role.

Everything about you screams alpha male. You intimidate both men and women.


Learn how to pretend.

Or you could be fat and ugly.
A pic would be useful as well as a personal description of yourself.
 

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Yes, but for me I think it's a result of trust issues stemming from lady ENTJ issues. I just don't dig what most other women do (scrap-booking, shopping, baking, celeb-gossip, anything that has the taint of Cosmopolitan magazine), I have never wanted to be a part of the cliques that seem to form in the classroom, office, lunchroom, PTO, whatever, and I am most definitely not a very good shoulder to cry on. In fact, please don't cry in front of me at all and I promise to do the same. When it comes to the Sorority of Womanhood, I rushed, I was initiated...but ultimately I just can't pay the metaphorical dues.

I've found it is better to have a small number of friends you can really trust rather than to be involved in a large social circle. I have a lot of acquaintances, but I could care less about calling most of them "friends." Join some sort of interest group involving a talent or goal if you want to widen your circle. That sort of venue plays to the ENTJ personal and social strengths.

It sucks on the surface, but when you move past your (natural, human) need for acceptance you find your own self-confidence. That's where a female ENTJ plays, it's what makes her attractive. My best advice is to embrace the Alpha Female that you are. You can't really be anything else.

Or you could be fat and ugly.
A pic would be useful as well as a personal description of yourself.
???:confused:
 

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I've found it is better to have a small number of friends you can really trust rather than to be involved in a large social circle. I have a lot of acquaintances, but I could care less about calling most of them "friends." Join some sort of interest group involving a talent or goal if you want to widen your circle. That sort of venue plays to the ENTJ personal and social strengths.

It sucks on the surface, but when you move past your (natural, human) need for acceptance you find your own self-confidence. That's where a female ENTJ plays, it's what makes her attractive. My best advice is to embrace the Alpha Female that you are. You can't really be anything else.



???:confused:
I agree with the small group of friends thing. I've always preferred having a few friends who I could trust and get along with in a deeper way, more than the usual superficial bs you see among the vast majority of people. During high school I played sports pretty much all year long (American football, lacrosse) and made a lot of good acquaintances along the way but still have a strong preference for a small circle.

I think male ENTJ's also deal with the human need for acceptance but may have an easier time getting over it if he can succeed at the right things. It might be A LOT harder for an ENTJ to get over the need for acceptance if they are genuinely inferior in physical shape and intelligence (not that they can't fix these things, it just takes a lot of effort, which is the ENTJ's forte you could say). If you have a hard time embracing the alpha-ness then maybe you should start by doing things that will build your confidence E.G exercise or anything you can do that makes you wake up feeling that-much-more accomplished and successful than the day before. I think it's important for ENTJ's to have a goal or a larger plan they're working towards to feel happy in life (I guess you could say we are true existentialists at heart)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the advice and keep it coming.

I don't aspire to be the center of attention or have lots of friends, but i don't even have one. I have no family either. I've always been independent and capable, but got diagnosed with a chronic debilitating illness and need reliable people in my life to survive. My doctor says being alone is hurting my immune system. I wish I could just get over this selfish human need for acceptance, but i feel it is essential for my survival. I have to learn to fit in and quick. I don't want to intimidate anyone, I'm really well intentioned how can i let that show?

I tried joining collectives, clubs and meet up groups. My last attempt at joining a group and making friends got me run out of a city. I go out of my way to acknowledge other peoples birthday's but when its mine i don't even get a text message. Not only do I have no friends I have a lot of enemies I left facebook because i couldn't deal with how mean people can be toward me. I honestly don't know what I do to cause this reaction in people. The worst thing is that I never see this rejection coming.

I also do exercise and diet, I've been chubby most of my life. I hate to think that is why I'm not liked because I don't react that why to peoples appearance. Also what is the point of building friendships with people who only like you because of how you look? they will just leave me if i gain weight or become sicker.

Is there any personality training out there to help me adapt better?
 

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Just go to the psychology section of the library and read some books about the research on people. (Then you'll also understand things like why not only individuals can be so illogical but also that large groups of people can be very illogical (sometimes at the great expense of humanity).)
 

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I wish I could just get over this selfish human need for acceptance, but i feel it is essential for my survival. I have to learn to fit in and quick. I don't want to intimidate anyone, I'm really well intentioned how can i let that show?
no no no no no-- you're missing an important paradox. If you want to be liked by others, treat them like shit. If you want to be treated like shit, treat others with kindness. So stop trying to fit in, go ahead and intimidate others, give up on acceptance, etc. etc. and you'll win the acceptance you originally sought when you finally don't care about it.

And give therapy the finger.
 

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no no no no no-- you're missing an important paradox. If you want to be liked by others, treat them like shit. If you want to be treated like shit, treat others with kindness. So stop trying to fit in, go ahead and intimidate others, give up on acceptance, etc. etc. and you'll win the acceptance you originally sought when you finally don't care about it.

And give therapy the finger.
That almost seems Zen.
 

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no no no no no-- you're missing an important paradox. If you want to be liked by others, treat them like shit. If you want to be treated like shit, treat others with kindness. So stop trying to fit in, go ahead and intimidate others, give up on acceptance, etc. etc. and you'll win the acceptance you originally sought when you finally don't care about it.

And give therapy the finger.
If you want to be an asshole that is.

What is a friendship worth if you have to adjust your behavior for it? Arent friendships supposed to be about "person X" and "person Y". Mutual respect, that is the key to friendships.

Well you can do like JHBowden suggest and you will get asshole friends. Kindness isnt something you should show before a friendship-relationship is established, but being an ass will make 2 kinds of friends, likeminded people and people who want to change you, and think there is something hidden beneath. If you feel comfortable with those kinds of people, go ahead.

The best way to really get friends I think is to join some sort of community/club/group and to accept other peoples weaknesses. People arent perfect no matter how much you wished they were.

My point is a friendship based on anything other than mutual respect isnt really worth the effort. I guess thats the introvert part of me speaking, maybe you can find a general value in connections for the future for career help. But thats not friendship as I see it, rather than strategical socialisation.

Good luck.
 

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What is a friendship worth if you have to adjust your behavior for it? Arent friendships supposed to be about "person X" and "person Y". Mutual respect, that is the key to friendships.
So is it safe to assume you have a ton of friends?
 

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If you want to be an asshole that is.

What is a friendship worth if you have to adjust your behavior for it? Arent friendships supposed to be about "person X" and "person Y". Mutual respect, that is the key to friendships.

Well you can do like JHBowden suggest and you will get asshole friends. Kindness isnt something you should show before a friendship-relationship is established, but being an ass will make 2 kinds of friends, likeminded people and people who want to change you, and think there is something hidden beneath. If you feel comfortable with those kinds of people, go ahead.

The best way to really get friends I think is to join some sort of community/club/group and to accept other peoples weaknesses. People arent perfect no matter how much you wished they were.

My point is a friendship based on anything other than mutual respect isnt really worth the effort. I guess thats the introvert part of me speaking, maybe you can find a general value in connections for the future for career help. But thats not friendship as I see it, rather than strategical socialisation.

Good luck.
I think Bowden was using hyperbole to make a point. The paradox exists for the ENTJ. The more an ENTJ acts contrary to their inherent temperament and second guesses his/herself, worries what others think, and tries too hard to make friends, the more they lack the thing that makes them unique and interesting to others - confidence.

And ENTpreneur is right about one thing. Sometimes you have to "fake it til you make it." Confidence, that is.

Also, keep in mind that ENTJs have a reputation for a reason. We can be an acquired taste. We have to work on aspects of our temperament like everyone else, but to some degree we are what we are.

xcupcakex, I am sorry you are not well. I have never been in your shoes. What I can say is, people who have serious illnesses that fight those illnesses and don't let it rule their lives are inspirational. People admire such individuals because we would all hope to have the same will to live and live well. I know it might suck to hear this from someone who is not sick, but don't let it rule your life or define who you are to other people or yourself. You are not a sick person, you are a person fighting a sickness. The difference? Your perspective.

Have you looked into a support group for people with your particular chronic debilitating illness? If you are likely to get any of the support you need on dealing with the illness itself, it will be from people who understand your particular problems. Otherwise, I would not make it the part of your bio that you lead with when meeting new acquaintances....no matter how much it influences your day to day life. Everyone admires a fighter, but no one likes a victim.

Maybe you could try something that you have always wanted to do...take a class on something like cooking or yoga or self defense. ENTJs like to learn new skills...you may meet interesting people there, too.
 

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I'll be your friend for a job?

On a serious note. I didn't know ENTJs had this problem. I always pictured you guys as business people congregating for more business. An INTP friend once told me, you guys are extraordinarily pushy, so much that she was pushed away out of the relationship. But I have never been able to type an ENTJ or find any self-identified ones.
 

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I have a ton of friends. Unfortunately, none of them are close. I'm the one that they call up every other month to hang out. They enjoy my company, but I think I might be too serious and too grounded to want to hang out with on a daily basis. I'm not the wild spontaneous type.

I usually get my non-work related socializing need satisfied by my wife, pets, and the occasional lunch outing.

I dunno. I guess I'm just low maintenance with the need for friendship. I just never really needed it. Maybe that's part of my problem?
 

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I have a ton of friends. Unfortunately, none of them are close. I'm the one that they call up every other month to hang out. They enjoy my company, but I think I might be too serious and too grounded to want to hang out with on a daily basis. I'm not the wild spontaneous type.

I usually get my non-work related socializing need satisfied by my wife, pets, and the occasional lunch outing.

I dunno. I guess I'm just low maintenance with the need for friendship. I just never really needed it. Maybe that's part of my problem?
I can highly relate. Even my husband says he didn't marry me because I am fun.

I think gregarious is a better description for ENTJs than social.


I'll be your friend for a job?
I've always admired the entrepreneurial spirit of the ENTP.:crazy:
 

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Thanks for the advice and keep it coming.

I don't aspire to be the center of attention or have lots of friends, but i don't even have one. I have no family either. I've always been independent and capable, but got diagnosed with a chronic debilitating illness and need reliable people in my life to survive. My doctor says being alone is hurting my immune system. I wish I could just get over this selfish human need for acceptance, but i feel it is essential for my survival. I have to learn to fit in and quick. I don't want to intimidate anyone, I'm really well intentioned how can i let that show?

I tried joining collectives, clubs and meet up groups. My last attempt at joining a group and making friends got me run out of a city. I go out of my way to acknowledge other peoples birthday's but when its mine i don't even get a text message. Not only do I have no friends I have a lot of enemies I left facebook because i couldn't deal with how mean people can be toward me. I honestly don't know what I do to cause this reaction in people. The worst thing is that I never see this rejection coming.

I also do exercise and diet, I've been chubby most of my life. I hate to think that is why I'm not liked because I don't react that why to peoples appearance. Also what is the point of building friendships with people who only like you because of how you look? they will just leave me if i gain weight or become sicker.

Is there any personality training out there to help me adapt better?
There is such a simple solution, well perhaps easier said than done, and is something that many people struggle with.

It's all about mindset, the mindset you have sends a vibe to those around you and they will respond accordingly. I used to always go into situations assuming that people didn't like me, and it made it that much more difficult for them to actually like me because I was sending that mental vibe. It was reflected in my interactions, body language, etc. However, one year, I made a new years resolution to always be in a good mood and think more positively, and I've never been the same.

I know that so many people say that confidence is everything.. but it's the absolute truth. It makes no difference what you look like if you have confidence, and have that "I don't give a shit what people think" kind of attitude. Then in turn, you have to go into every situation with an open mind and be genuinely interested in those around you thinking positively about what they say and do as much as you can. Even if you don't agree with what others do, to each is their own.

As extraverted intuitive people, we are gifted in the regard that we can "read" people, which can work out for the better and for the worse, but we do have control over what we do choose to "read" in others.. The people around us can sense that we are "reading" them too.

Long story short.. get over your insecurities completely, because they are working against you.
 

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Assholes have more fun! Pay no attention to the skeptics, cupcake!
This is what I like about ENTJ, their ability to not take anything personal.

About me having many friends, no I dont really. I prefer quality instead of quantity when it comes to friends.

Or maybe I just get the ones that society throw at me.

Let the witty ENTP decide what he wants to believe.
 

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Don't deny yourself or your personality. Be a bitch/asshole if thats who you are, or if thats how people see you (which is pretty common for ENTJ's). I don't have a ton of friends, but the friends that like me despite myself are real friends that I trust implicitly.
 

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If you want to study the friendship process, try this program: Connected

Very interesting.
 
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