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I have been together with a wonderful INTP for almost 8 years. But a few months ago, le wild crush of all crushes (INFJ) appeared.

We started out online, being playbuddies. We evolved quickly into friends, by connecting unearthly well. When I wasn't online/was at work or visited my relatives etc, I missed him so bad. His warmth, presence. His awesome dadjokes, his everything. I didn't know what the word "soulmate" means before I met him. We say the same things at the same time, we think the same things. We are in sync. We sense each others' happiness, and encourage and puke rainbows at each other during our happymoments.
It's also intimidating cause we sense each others' emotions too well. When I'm down, he is down, and vice versa. It can sometimes form into a loop of accusations, while all we need is time out from each other. But we hate to leave problems unsolved for the sake of peace, and then we clash and mend things immediately.
We are in love with each other, and we both know our feelings towards each other. Please don't kill me, I am well aware that I'm cheating my boyfriend emotionally. Anyways.

My INTP had somehow tamed me, without me realizing it. I locked my emotions inside (so i wouldn't clash with his rational Ti). I think I tried to use my not-too-strong Te, and i was so judgemental towards other people, their actions. I was cynical, and I couldn't make friends, or keep them. This all went on until I met the INFJ. I'm emotional again, and I'm not afraid of showing them. We are both HSP too. He cracked my shell, and understands me like nobody else does. He feels the same - as if he finally had found someone who understands him for who he is, and loves him no matter what.

Don't get me wrong - I love my INTP to the moon and back, but we just don't connect. Our interests are different. He likes going outdoors, and I rarely do it. I need a reason/goal to go out. I can't just walk in the bog. And he can't stand the idea of going to metal concerts with me, and it's all normal.
The things that connect us in some way are home, our pets and our mutual games we play/movies we watch. Ok, travelling also, but we don't do it often, since it's expensive. Plus we aren't on nomad mode.
He is not into humanitarian subjects, while I'm dying to talk about people and psychology, music, artsy things. But what draws me to him is his calmness and having his shit together, no matter what. He can be a rock when I get emotional. He doesn't offer emotional support, sadly, but he can rationalize my irrational thoughts, and within a few minutes I see that it's not that big of a deal, or it's out of my reach etc. Sometimes, though, I wish he didn't offer rational solutions to my irrational thoughts. I just need to vent and 100 hugs and kisses and words like: "It's gonna be alright" which I don't get from him.

We also had some problems with the INTP, but I confronted him a few months ago, and he has been trying really hard to fix these. We have bought like 4-5 concert tickets for summer, we have gone out to play boardgames, we have been to movies, theatre. We do things. He has finally started showing affection after almost 8 years of being together (random kisses, hugs, "iloveyous" (HE HAD NEVER SAID IT FIRST BEFORE!)).
I see his efforts, and it hurts me so bad that we actually could make it work. But the question is - will my infpish neediness of emotional support, compliments etc be satisfied with him in the long run? Am I still with him because I'm in my comfort zone, and possessive of him? What if I chose to stay and fix things, and find myself in the same sad situation after 2 years, while maybe being married to him, and having kids with him?

At first I was fixating on the first couple of beautiful years with him, but now I'm Ne'ing possibly beautiful future with him. I'm also Ne'ing possible (even more beautiful and understanding) future with INFJ. The time has come so far that I need to make a decision, for all of us, to move on with our lives, and I can't seem to let either of them go. How do you handle such dilemmas? How does it look to an outsider? I can't seem to ask myself the right questions to make the leap...
 

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The only way to know is to wait and see if anything changes. If you see that he is starting to drift back to the way things were before then you know it is temporary.
 

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The only way to know is to wait and see if anything changes. If you see that he is starting to drift back to the way things were before then you know it is temporary.
The INFJ won't wait for me, and he does not agree to be anyone's second choice. And he is right in that sense.
 

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If you stay with the INTP, cut off contact with the INFJ. In doing so though, you never really fix the real problem which is the lack of emotional connection. I'd probably end it with the INTP if I were you and go for the INFJ or if not, then look for someone who can fulfill you emotionally. You can still care for someone deeply, but in a relationship if your needs aren't being met then it's no point dragging it out. You have to be a little selfish with that otherwise you just lose yourself and will remain unhappy and probably resent them long term.

Anyways, good luck. It's always a tough thing to do but you have to put yourself first at the end of the day.
 

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Hi @fmliminfp ... that is quite a dilemma. I feel awful for all three of you because there is no fairytale ending to this one. Any which way you look at it, someone is going to get hurt. Having been in a love-triangle myself, I know that no matter who you choose, there will be (what I call) guilt residue, because you are a decent human being.

Imho, there is no 100% right or wrong answer. All I see here are shades of grey.

This is what I see (as an outsider):
- You deserve to be happy
- All three of you deserve to be happy, but you are not responsible for anyone else's happiness; only your own
- Your INTP is a stabilizing influence but that stabilization is starting to feel like suffocation
- Your INTP deserves at least some measure of loyalty for trying to fix things
- It is your choice as to how to show that loyalty (e.g. tell him the situation and work through it together, drop the INFJ and protect the INTP from the knowledge, make a decision and let the INTP be the first to know etc)
- You are bored ... it is called the 7 year itch ... it's a real thing
- 7 year itch does not mean that there isn't a real connection between you and your INFJ, but it may make you more prone to idealising the newer relationship (that's how it works for me)
- The INFJ stimulates areas of your brain that you have allowed to go dormant ... and it is intoxicating ... it feels like a re-awakening
- You need to evaluate what the "staying power" is for each relationship. Be honest with yourself and examine the gaps. When you and the INFJ argue, do you find yourself leaning on the INTP's presence to readjust yourself and rationalise? When your INTP is cold and distant, do you lean on the INFJ for affection? Both represent gaps ... neither guy can give you all of it ... you have to figure out which qualities are best for you in both the short and long term.
- Something is obviously not right between you and the INTP or you wouldn't be vulnerable to intense emotional/romantic connection with others (I am assuming that you are monogamous by nature here). Evaluate whether the relationship is so damaged that if you said bye-bye to the INFJ, another feeler type may be equally (though differently) fascinating
- You also need to ask yourself whether the INFJ is emotionally intelligent enough to get past you emotionally cheating on a former partner ... it is natural for people to assume that if you cheated to be with them, you may cheat on them in the future. Not everyone is capable of dealing with that ... especially if you happen to be generally flirty by nature (like I am) ... that can start a very messy jealousy cycle

What should you do? Only you can decide what is right for you. You have a classic dichotomy here ... a choice between the head and the heart. I do not envy you, but I do know that you need to resolve it before the INTP finds out on his own. He deserves that much and, be honest, you know you will feel better about yourself in the long run if you own it.

Best of luck to you and hugs if ya need them.
 
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I think I know what to do. Thank you all for your valuable thoughts. I knew this is the right place to ask :)

My plan is to:
1. Move out, and tell him that I'm having an emotional affair. I'd rather protect him from this, but I know he won't find peace until he knows for sure what happened. I want him to know it's not his fault, and it would be easier for him to move on. If I go with the INFJ at the end of the day, he will figure it out anyway. And I'm sure he has sensed I'm out of the door with one foot.
2. See what happens with the INFJ. Btw he lives in another country, so it would mean the biggest life change I have ever had, which I have to come to terms with. But I think it will be easier to deal with, once I'm "available".
 

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I think I know what to do. Thank you all for your valuable thoughts. I knew this is the right place to ask :)

My plan is to:
1. Move out, and tell him that I'm having an emotional affair. I'd rather protect him from this, but I know he won't find peace until he knows for sure what happened. I want him to know it's not his fault, and it would be easier for him to move on. If I go with the INFJ at the end of the day, he will figure it out anyway. And I'm sure he has sensed I'm out of the door with one foot.
2. See what happens with the INFJ. Btw he lives in another country, so it would mean the biggest life change I have ever had, which I have to come to terms with. But I think it will be easier to deal with, once I'm "available".
Imo, you are being amazingly brave and as ethical as you possibly can be. Please come back here if you need support and feel free to PM me if you need a non-judgemental wonderwall or shoulder to cry on.
 
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The INFJ won't wait for me, and he does not agree to be anyone's second choice. And he is right in that sense.
But he is second choice whether he likes it or not, he met a great person, but she is not available. That's his own fault because he knew (or knows now and chooses to stay around anyway trying to fish).

Anyway, if you are having a stable and good relationship of 8 years with INTP, it seems like a big deal to throw that away to pursue a ''dream'' or ideologically fabulous relationship with the INFJ. It may be all nice and roses now, but you don't know what happens if you are with the INFJ for longer periods of time and more invested together. I don't know how long you have been talking with him, but it would be a bit naive to think that the INFJ will be your ultimate relationship that outlasts everything based on what you know now. I don't think you can ever compare or predict things like that. So again, it seems like a big thing to throw away a stable and consistent relationship for a gamble and a honeymoon-stage daydream with the INFJ.

I think commitment, loyalty, determination and perseverance are one of the greatest traits in a person relationship-wise. No, it is not everything, but it is a very good basis. Both you and the INTP have shown that you have those which is great, so maybe you want to think a lot before quitting.

Moreover, I don't understand why the INFJ would be interested in luring someone away and date someone that gets just out another relationship for them. Then you just KNOW that the person you date is capable of switching or leaving abruptly after many good years. Besides, thats tacky towards INTP and convenient for you. Either leave INTP first and be single first, or try to stay and work on your relationship.

Seems like you're doing either of that. I hope you end up in a good place and that the plunge into the deep will bring you more than that you gave up. Have you have ever literally told INTP though that you are unfulfilled and thus thinking about the possibility of leaving him?

fmliminfp said:
I think I know what to do. Thank you all for your valuable thoughts. I knew this is the right place to ask :)

My plan is to:
1. Move out, and tell him that I'm having an emotional affair. I'd rather protect him from this, but I know he won't find peace until he knows for sure what happened. I want him to know it's not his fault, and it would be easier for him to move on. If I go with the INFJ at the end of the day, he will figure it out anyway. And I'm sure he has sensed I'm out of the door with one foot.
2. See what happens with the INFJ. Btw he lives in another country, so it would mean the biggest life change I have ever had, which I have to come to terms with. But I think it will be easier to deal with, once I'm "available".



 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Anyway, if you are having a stable and good relationship of 8 years with INTP, it seems like a big deal to throw that away to pursue a ''dream'' or ideologically fabulous relationship with the INFJ. It may be all nice and roses now, but you don't know what happens if you are with the INFJ for longer periods of time and more invested together. I don't know how long you have been talking with him, but it would be a bit naive to think that the INFJ will be your ultimate relationship that outlasts everything based on what you know now. I don't think you can ever compare or predict things like that. So again, it seems like a big thing to throw away a stable and consistent relationship for a gamble and a honeymoon-stage daydream with the INFJ.
There are some things I just know. Intuitively. Plus I know things about his past that I can't spill out here. He has been through hell, and come back as a winner. Yes, ofcourse it won't be all rosey and full of rainbows - we have had clashes when the INFJ partially doorslammed me. I made it clear, that I won't tolerate it, and we will talk through everything. We have a lot of turbulence, due to me being paralyzed to do anything about this situation. I know once I will step up and take action, and take responsibility for what I have done, it will get better.

I think commitment, loyalty, determination and perseverance are one of the greatest traits in a person relationship-wise. No, it is not everything, but it is a very good basis. Both you and the INTP have shown that you have those which is great, so maybe you want to think a lot before quitting.
The INTP doesn't give me the affection I need. It is uncharacteristic of him. Even if he does it now, it will drain him eventually. I have been contemplating over this dilemma since February, so yes, I have given it a lot of thought.

Moreover, I don't understand why the INFJ would be interested in luring someone away and date someone that gets just out another relationship for them. Then you just KNOW that the person you date is capable of switching or leaving abruptly after many good years. Besides, thats tacky towards INTP and convenient for you. Either leave INTP first and be single first, or try to stay and work on your relationship.
The INFJ knows I'm monogamous by nature, and he sees through me. This is why he is still here.
The years were good/harmonic, because I suppressed myself. I shouldn't have done it, and I should have communicated my needs to him right away, when I felt something is off. But this is who we are. we BOTH hate conflicts, and this doesn't do good to us that we avoid such discussions.
To me it would be more comfortable to stay in this relationship, and not tell him about the affair, and try to work on the intimacy, and ditch the INFJ. But I would have "what if".
Never tell me my choice to leave him is comfortable and easy. This is the hardest thing to do, and this is why I have been in this dilemma for so long.

Seems like you're doing either of that. I hope you end up in a good place and that the plunge into the deep will bring you more than that you gave up. Have you have ever literally told INTP though that you are unfulfilled and thus thinking about the possibility of leaving him?
I communicated with him about our problems, and this is what I told in the first post. He is trying to fix them, but the more days pass, I just realize that I need a connection with whom I spend the rest of my life with.
 

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@fmliminfp Alright, though i'm still curious. How much in-between time for the self will you take if you leave? And again have you explicitly told INTP you would leave him? And if/when you do, will you stick with him too until he found alternatives for him to find a hold-on or fulfilment. I mean the longer you stay with INTP (and leave him in the dark) and the more you get involved with INFJ, the more it seems like you will have a decent option B to distract your heart and mind with. Will you grand INTP time to process and redirect is heart and mind as well?
 

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...the real problem which is the lack of emotional connection. I'd probably end it with the INTP if I were you and go for the INFJ or if not, then look for someone who can fulfill you emotionally. You can still care for someone deeply, but in a relationship if your needs aren't being met then it's no point dragging it out. You have to be a little selfish with that otherwise you just lose yourself and will remain unhappy and probably resent them long term.
This.

While having more time is necessary in order to make the absolute best choice for your life -time to see if the INTP behavior is serious or just a bandaid- the INFJ is right in demanding that he's not anyone's second choice. I applaud his self-respect.
It's been my personal experience, including my observations of the relationships around me, that people's change of behavior in order to save a dying relationship are only bandaids. Over time, they will resort back to their natural state of being. Since I don't know the INTP, I can't speak with any certainty, but it's my observation that it's very weird that he didn't change behavior in all these 8 years, and now suddenly he's making an effort to save his sinking ship last minute. The question here is... is this a true change of personality? Or just a temporary panicky bandaid? I find that it's not common that people change their personality overnight.
The way I would go (and have gone in the past) about something like this is forgetting the INFJ for a second, and looking at life with the INTP for what it really is. Do you long for emotional support? Do you secretly daydream of personality traits that he doesn't have? Do you make many excuses for why you're okay not having certain needs met? And are they needs, or are they wants? Like Bad Hombre said, get selfish here. What do you want for your life, for you? First, have the vision for your life and what you want to experience with a mate. And then, only after the vision, check your reality and see if things are really going to be good long-term or if it's only a phase.
 

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There are some things I just know. Intuitively. Plus I know things about his past that I can't spill out here. He has been through hell, and come back as a winner. Yes, ofcourse it won't be all rosey and full of rainbows - we have had clashes when the INFJ partially doorslammed me. I made it clear, that I won't tolerate it, and we will talk through everything. We have a lot of turbulence, due to me being paralyzed to do anything about this situation. I know once I will step up and take action, and take responsibility for what I have done, it will get better.
. . . the thing with INFPs is that our intuition tells us that something is very right. Our expectations of this person leads us to imagine an amazing relationships with very little evidence. I know because I've done it. I met a man, and our first date, I looked into his eyes and thought "I could marry this man". We were very much attuned to each other, physically, but emotionally . . . he destroyed me. (He was an ISTP btw). After a year and a half of this, I had to admit that I was at fault for putting expectations had no plausible reason for existing yet, and I was finally able to walk away.

Basically, I'm saying don't always trust your intuition. It can be a fickle thing, especially if we're unconsciously pointing it in a certain direction - i.e. your discontentment with your current relationship, and you conveniently finding an escape with this INFJ. I would say if you're truly unhappy in your relationship with the INTP, then, of course, take a break. But don't rush into anything with the INFJ. Really take the time to figure out if you want the INFJ, or an escape from the INTP, because the two are completely different things.
 

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When you've known someone for a short time, you don't really know them, you don't know what goes on in their mind. What you really see are your own idealized projections, your own low-resolution abstractions of who you think or who you would like that person to be. A lot of relationships fall apart after the honeymoon phase because people get to truly know each other and those idealized projections fall apart.

It's possible that all the positive qualities you see in the INFJ is actually a mirror to the things that you've been missing or denying yourself in your current relationship. It might not really have to do with the INTP or INFJ, it could be about you, maybe you lack assertiveness or maybe you haven't paid attention to what you're really looking for.

The fact the INFJ is in a foreign country, it adds another spin to this. You haven't met him in person, you don't know if you have chemistry, concrete living and working arrangements are going to be very complicated. It sounds like you're chasing after a dream behind a computer screen, it's foolhardy, it could easily fall apart. You could leave the INTP all the same, but you're much more likely to find concrete prospects by dating people where you live, real people you have physical access to.
 

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This.

While having more time is necessary in order to make the absolute best choice for your life -time to see if the INTP behavior is serious or just a bandaid- the INFJ is right in demanding that he's not anyone's second choice. I applaud his self-respect.
It's been my personal experience, including my observations of the relationships around me, that people's change of behavior in order to save a dying relationship are only bandaids. Over time, they will resort back to their natural state of being. Since I don't know the INTP, I can't speak with any certainty, but it's my observation that it's very weird that he didn't change behavior in all these 8 years, and now suddenly he's making an effort to save his sinking ship last minute. The question here is... is this a true change of personality? Or just a temporary panicky bandaid? I find that it's not common that people change their personality overnight.
The way I would go (and have gone in the past) about something like this is forgetting the INFJ for a second, and looking at life with the INTP for what it really is. Do you long for emotional support? Do you secretly daydream of personality traits that he doesn't have? Do you make many excuses for why you're okay not having certain needs met? And are they needs, or are they wants? Like Bad Hombre said, get selfish here. What do you want for your life, for you? First, have the vision for your life and what you want to experience with a mate. And then, only after the vision, check your reality and see if things are really going to be good long-term or if it's only a phase.
The INFJ is not right with that so no, no applause, and he doesn't respect others' relationships, simple. Besides, I find it quite a big assumption of yours towards the INTP that he is somehow ''suddenly saving ship'' after 8 years. If OP never mentioned her needs before these few months ago, INTP may not have seen that shortcoming and whatnot. That wasn't explicitly stated, so there may still be enough to say about OP's communication style as well in the relationship as a whole, in terms of voicing her needs.
Anyway, I read quite some other posts of yours Entheos, and generally you seem quite misandrist. I probably get shitface'd saying this and asking women tough confronting questions (or just get ignored with no answers) ... and not essentially cheering their own perspective and thats it. But, on the other side it seems that criticism/complains about men go with free pass around INFP section, balance is off. Ehh.

I don't know, I mean it is easy to know what kind of reply is popular and deemed ''supportive'' -> yay go be free, go be happy, you deserve more, you deserve different, go be selfish because it's good and healthy now. But I also don't agree with @Sangoire suggestions that the relationship with INTP is faulty or lacking because the INFJ can offer different things that OP gets attract and excited about. Duh, that will always be the case no matter with whom you are, left or right. So I find it all too simplistic to either highlight shortcomings in this relationship as clearcut arguments to support a decision to just drop it all, and too simplistic to criticise INTPs input without knowing how they even got to that place in the relationship in the first place, other than a synopsis of the last few months.
 

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@nicoloco90 Can't "thank" your post cause I disagree, but thought I'd reply sort of, in a kind of 'I hear you' way.
I do agree with the part where you say (paraphrasing) the "problem" is hers because she lacks assertiveness in the relationship. Beyond this, there's not much other information. Which is why I said it's best to forget about the INFJ and focuse on herself and INTP, because the INFJ is a new shiny distracting thing, not a true oasis.

And about misandrist, you havent read enough of my posts then, because I'm not. That is all.

Have a good weekend.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
The INFJ is not right with that so no, no applause, and he doesn't respect others' relationships, simple. Besides, I find it quite a big assumption of yours towards the INTP that he is somehow ''suddenly saving ship'' after 8 years. If OP never mentioned her needs before these few months ago, INTP may not have seen that shortcoming and whatnot. That wasn't explicitly stated, so there may still be enough to say about OP's communication style as well in the relationship as a whole, in terms of voicing her needs.
Anyway, I read quite some other posts of yours Entheos, and generally you seem quite misandrist. I probably get shitface'd saying this and asking women tough confronting questions (or just get ignored with no answers) ... and not essentially cheering their own perspective and thats it. But, on the other side it seems that criticism/complains about men go with free pass around INFP section, balance is off. Ehh.

I don't know, I mean it is easy to know what kind of reply is popular and deemed ''supportive'' -> yay go be free, go be happy, you deserve more, you deserve different, go be selfish because it's good and healthy now. But I also don't agree with Sangoire suggestions that the relationship with INTP is faulty or lacking because the INFJ can offer different things that OP gets attract and excited about. Duh, that will always be the case no matter with whom you are, left or right. So I find it all too simplistic to either highlight shortcomings in this relationship as clearcut arguments to support a decision to just drop it all, and too simplistic to criticise INTPs input without knowing how they even got to that place in the relationship in the first place, other than a synopsis of the last few months.
-
 

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@nicoloco90 Can't "thank" your post cause I disagree, but thought I'd reply sort of, in a kind of 'I hear you' way.
I do agree with the part where you say (paraphrasing) the "problem" is hers because she lacks assertiveness in the relationship. Beyond this, there's not much other information. Which is why I said it's best to forget about the INFJ and focuse on herself and INTP, because the INFJ is a new shiny distracting thing, not a true oasis.

And about misandrist, you havent read enough of my posts then, because I'm not. That is all.

Have a good weekend.
Yeah, I saw that you addressed that in the second part of your post, I noticed. Yet, it didn't seem to be the main/most important thought or perspective from your end and that worried me.
Well, you do post a lot :p - it seemed a bit like a recurring theme shining through as of late.
 

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Yeah, I saw that you addressed that in the second part of your post, I noticed. Yet, it didn't seem to be the main/most important thought or perspective from your end and that worried me.
Well, you do post a lot :p - it seemed a bit like a recurring theme shining through as of late.
Which proves that I can write whatever and you'll read whatever you want into it, and pick and choose what you think that I think is important. If u know what I mean.
Projections from your part, imo tbh.
But anyways...
 

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Which proves that I can write whatever and you'll read whatever you want into it, and pick and choose what you think that I think is important. If u know what I mean.
Projections from your part, imo tbh.
But anyways...
ehh it's not about us so i'm fine with your concluding argument, you may have it.

More importantly it is just this subject, and more often than not I see lots of supporting posts on the the OP's behave in threads like these (which you also participate in most of times) - which of course is important to do, but at some point it itches me too much when not many dare to question OP themselves and explore other perspectives. It's deemed less 'kind' maybe (or less ''thank''-worthy), but therein may just as well lie important information and support for OP.
It is why I sometimes decide to try to confront/criticise, even if that puts me in a bad spot. For example you essentially saying that the INFJ can be applauded for a self-centered agenda (really? pressuring someone in a relationship with a timeframe?) and that when it comes to relationship-contexts that being selfish is a good thing. I find it worrying and shortsided based on info at hand, and basically already supporting an exit-strategy in terms of the relationship instead of first exploring other parts (e.g. communication, history). Yes you provided it, but it was more like second-hand.
I mean if enough people start off that way with that sort of ''support'' that fits the exit-strategy for OP, it is already very much leading. (I don't want to suggest that anyone per se lets themselves be influenced by some forum when it comes to life-changing decisions). ... but still. So yeah, my motivation behind it.

Anyway sorry I shouldn't have dropped the ''misandrist'', that was harsh/uncalled for. Bit too emotional-fueled there. But again it's this subject (tho not an excuse no), but I like you otherwise just pretty fine in any case. :unsure:

 

from other place:
entheos said:
@.... Both you and @... made good points.

On the one hand, I know exactly what you mean about men in their 20s being liars and whatnot. However, don't think that it gets better in your 30s xD It's just more of the same. I don't see a maturity, tbh, men in their 30s are still lost and immature, but what's worked for me is to meet a ton of people over the years, and I do mean a ton, because a few of the people in that gigantic pool turn out to be decent men.
 
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