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their thinking? I see this a lot. Seems they'll either get really pedantic and not understand the point of the analogy and/or they'll be like "why are we talking about X, I thought we were talking about Y?" taking it too literally.

What logical fallacies are common among Ti users and Te users?
 

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Do you mean Te-users in any position or just dom/aux? Because I have Te last and I don't really feel strongly the way you described. Also, Ti can be just as stubborn and pedantic as Te in its own way. I'm interested in the discussion, though.

Edited to add that I may have a limited frame of reference because I grew up around and am currently surrounded by Ts lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Both, high Te more so though. I see alot of apologetics and mental gymnastics from Ti users.
 

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I don't think it's necessarily a Te issue.

XNTJs can speak in analogies all day.

What you're describing is probably an XSTJ issue.
 

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I've noticed this kind of thing with my Se dominant work colleagues.

An example was a couple of days ago, I got to work and asked my ESFP workmate how many novels he's going to write today.
He looked at me for a second and asked "what the fuck are you talking about?"
I said "how many books are you going to write?"
He said "I don't know what you're going on about"
I said "how much are you going to write today?"
He said "I don't get it"
I said "on the board. how many numbers are you going to write today?"
He said "what are you saying?"

At this point both of us were a little frustrated with each other so I had to just ask him flat out, "how many sales are you going to make?" and he had a laugh and said "oh! why didn't you just say that instead of whatever you were going on about?"

I then had to explain the joke.. writing on the board.. writing.. book, novels.. but the thing is it wasn't even an inside joke, our manager is *always* telling us we need to "write" more numbers on the board, always telling us to "write".
I was in disbelief that he didn't get the joke immediately, yet alone the next three times I rephrased it.

He thought I was a dick and was trying to make fun of him.

Now he gets the joke, yesterday I told him I ran out of ink from writing so much and he had a laugh, he asked me if I want him to set me up a little stall where I can just sign autographs all day, lol.


My INTP friend/colleague got the joke immediately, same day, his response was "mate I'm going to start up my own publishing company".


I think this "trouble" is likely attributed more to a perceiving function - Se specifically, than any judging function - because Se deals with what is immediate, it doesn't want to nor see value in reading between the lines, it prefers and relies on what is actually happening and being said.

That same ESFP told me he was wondering why he'd be writing novels at work - he's a salesman, not an author.


In defence of the Se types who might come out and say this is an anomaly - that particular ESFP was just dopey - well, maybe, but he absolutely destroys me at our job. We started at the same time. He relates to people easily. He doesn't have any kind of hangups with persisting on people who don't want to buy. He paints a picture for people when selling so he doesn't really need to persist much anyway. He's likeable. Etc.

He's got about a million traits that are more beneficial and welcomed by society than I do, and I feel in no way superior to him because I can crack jokes he doesn't get.
Dude earns way more than me and makes his bonuses. I struggle for like a 2-3 sales a week.
He makes a sale every hour or so.
 

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I don't think it's necessarily a Te issue.

XNTJs can speak in analogies all day.

What you're describing is probably an XSTJ issue.
I've encountered it with a lot of xNTJs as well believe it or not
 

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My younger bro is an INTJ (I am ESTP)... for years, he would begin talking halfway through a thought... joke, thought, story or otherwise... i always felt like he was high as fuck and didnt realize nobody else is in his brain and he needs to start his monologue from the beginning.

Details which are important to story telling, jokes, etc... are lost among the N's...

I only began to understand my bro more, when i started smoking way more weed. When my bro and i are baked together , we ride the same train... but its like hes out there all the time, and for me only when im blazed.

For S's, its important to pause and try to imagine how the N got to that point in his monologue... and for N's its important to remember not everybody is in your brain, and in order to accurately deliver a message, you must include everybody in the whole thought process, not just the conclusion.

Your original joke, without context.. is nothing. Your 2 follow up statements are basically reframes of the same question with no additional context... so,... not helpful.
 

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I've encountered it with a lot of xNTJs as well believe it or not
If you're sure they're XNTJs then it could be a reaction to Ti's disingenuous nature, and that they're simply preventing you from changing the subject.

Can you give a specific example of what you're describing?
 

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Your original joke, without context.. is nothing. Your 2 follow up statements are basically reframes of the same question with no additional context... so,... not helpful.
The context was there, it was a reference to something our manager says quite often, and we were at our place of employment - the joke was also directly related to what we're employed to do.

How much more context is required?
 

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All I do is talk in analogies. I’ve found that SPs are most annoyed by it unless it’s poetic and emotional, followed by STJs, unless it’s humorous.
 

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I think there's two different things at work here.

Te sets clear goals and tends to disregard things that don't fit with that goal. This can lead Te-doms and Te-aux debaters to keep you from reframing the discussion, as that would make it hard for them to make their point. Many Te-users are a lot more flexible with this, but the ones that you remember tend to be of this type.

Sensors can sometimes have trouble with analogies or not 'get' jumps in logic. There's loads of sensors that have no trouble with stuff like that, but it's the stereotype and any case you see of that will strengthen that idea.
 

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It could just be that you (or Ti and/or Ne users) don't think their analogies are "good enough" or make sense - which isn't really the fault of them, nor a fault of yours, just that people talk and interpret in different ways and it's not always compatible.

Personally, I find many Ti users pedantic as hell as they keep trying to refine their ideas past the point of usefulness.
 

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It could just be that you (or Ti and/or Ne users) don't think their analogies are "good enough" or make sense - which isn't really the fault of them, nor a fault of yours, just that people talk and interpret in different ways and it's not always compatible.

Personally, I find many Ti users pedantic as hell as they keep trying to refine their ideas past the point of usefulness.
lol... says the INTJ who plans ahead past the point of "usefulness".
 

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Do I? Huh. You must've seen me do that a lot for you to be so certain. Show me when?
i was meaning to be more generic than 'you'... "the INTJ, who plans..." , which afaik is a mainstay in INTJ personality... preparing and planning, then contingency planning , then plan C, D, etc.. if this then that...

my brother is an INTJ/5 and this is how he operates. he is quite thrilled with the title 'mastermind'.

forgive me if it sounded individual to you.
 

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The thing is that if you would ask an INTJ and an INTP what they were planning for, an INTJ will always be able to give you answer, while an INTP will usually try to explain it and give up halfway through, realizing that they never really had a goal in the first place. That's what Paradigm meant. Ti-users tend to plan for the sake of planning, while Te-users tend to plan to attain a goal (whatever that goal may be).
 

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i was meaning to be more generic than 'you'... "the INTJ, who plans..." , which afaik is a mainstay in INTJ personality... preparing and planning, then contingency planning , then plan C, D, etc.. if this then that...
my brother is an INTJ/5 and this is how he operates. he is quite thrilled with the title 'mastermind'.
forgive me if it sounded individual to you.
The language was a bit individual :p But I get it.

While I can see your point in that Ni-Te can "over-plan," I think both "over-refining" and "over-planning" can seem similar at the end of the day. If you hem and haw at an idea for more than is reasonable, it's annoying for whatever reason you do it.

Personally, while I do tend to look at every angle before deciding on one, that doesn't always make itself noticeable as "over-planning." More like "over-thinking," if you get me: it's all up in my head, I don't verbalize any/most of it. I don't really think "over-planning" is an INTJ thing specifically (it might be a TJ thing, I guess), as I tend to get really impatient with too much contingency planning. It's nice to have options and an idea of what could go wrong, but most problems are solved through pure common sense.

I suppose it could be something more common/obvious in those with less of an impulsive streak, but I wouldn't limit it to type(s). I don't really know any other INTJs personally, just many Ti/Fe users with a sprinkle of Te/Fi, so I'm not comfortable using 1-2 people as a guide for a whole type.
 

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The likely reason I don't get your analogy is probably because of a disconnect at your end that deemds it incomparable to actual realities of things, objective and verified -- reasoning of this line would connect to thinking and sensing functions in typology -- making ST the mostly likely types to call you out on it.

The reason I do not get leaps in logic is because I actually care about consistency. Nuance too but I think most thinkers would have to be nuanced by default. If not they are probably faux-thinkers or just intellectually lazy in which case.... oh, right.
 
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