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Discussion Starter #1
Do ENFJs tend to romanticize? How to Live in Reality in Our Dating & Relationships...

I'm posting this because I'd love to know what you guys think of NF's daydreaming as it pertains to dating/potential relationships. In other areas of my life, being a dreamer has actually benefited me: allowing me to visualize goals and drive towards them relentlessly, especially in professional or social situations. I'm eternally hopeful and while some see this as naive, I see this as one of my best gifts. When it comes to relationships, or meeting a new and exciting crush, however, I don't know how to keep both feet planted firmly on the ground.

Here's a recent example: I met someone who I really like but don't know that well yet; he lives on the other side of the country and we met one weekend when we were both in my city. I've kept in touch with him, but I fear I'm getting lost in my little daydream again, fantasizing that things could really work out when most types would tell me to get over it and be realistic. We both said we would have asked each other out if we lived in the same place, and he's mentioned visiting me/inviting me out to see him, etc. I get this naggy little feeling that tells me to slow down my expectations or dreams though, because I have been burned in the past and it hurts. Bad. I have been keeping an open mind and haven't closed myself off to just this one option, but I feel like my mind and my heart are never running at the same pace. For once, I wish that my wildest dreams would come true and that all these chances I keep taking, and all the times I put myself out there, will finally pay off...

So I'm just wondering, do other ENFJs suffer from this same issue? How do you know if you're actually seeing things clearly, and is it good to sometimes have a bit of hope/fantasy to push you to confidence? How do you slow down and stop from getting ahead of yourself and potentially ruining things? Would love to know everyone's thoughts, thanks!!

 

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Yes I do, all the time. I wish I could tell you how to slow down and stay earth-bound, but if I knew I wouldn't have gotten hurt so many times myself. But for all grief it's caused me, it has redeemed itself with little moments of bliss, and I wouldn't give up this part of me for anything. There's something beautiful in raw and reckless fantastical romance.

One of my favorite quotes ever:
“What passes for hip cynical transcendence of sentiment is really some kind of fear of being really human, since to be really human is probably to be unavoidably sentimental and naïve and goo-prone and generally pathetic.” ~David Foster Wallace
 

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One of my favorite quotes ever:
“What passes for hip cynical transcendence of sentiment is really some kind of fear of being really human, since to be really human is probably to be unavoidably sentimental and naïve and goo-prone and generally pathetic.” ~David Foster Wallace
That is a fantastic quote....and I am so completely and utterly guilty of it.
 

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I experience the fantasizing about people pre-relationship. I've even imagined the whole relationship in several different scenarios. There's nothing wrong with that if there's something real there.
But when it all comes down to it, you just gotta let go and take a good look at what's actually going on. Do you really like this person as much as you think you do? Or do you just want to like them that much? Pay close attention to the things you say to each other, the things they say. Do they really tickle your fancy, or do you gloss over what they say and form an unrealistic picture of them in your mind? If you realize you're not seeing this person clearly, just let them go. you can find someone else. And you'll have better practice for next time in being present.

It helps if you can somehow become self-reliant too. That stops a lot of the neediness that provokes the fantasizing. If you have something else going on in your life occupying your time, something you're interested in, not only does that make you more interesting, but it also makes you more interested, in something else. For yourself. Do you have a hobby?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
But when it all comes down to it, you just gotta let go and take a good look at what's actually going on. Do you really like this person as much as you think you do? Or do you just want to like them that much? Pay close attention to the things you say to each other, the things they say. Do they really tickle your fancy, or do you gloss over what they say and form an unrealistic picture of them in your mind?
Hmm, see that's also a tough one. I guess the reason why I'm posting is that I'm afraid I'm guilty of adding perhaps more meaning to his responses or messages than I should (and this is not just with this particular situation--as I said before, I think I do this with a lot of relationships in my life! eek.) As an ENFJ I think I just get so excited/enthused about the new people I meet or the new things I do that it's hard for me not to build it up in my head or act like a complete idiot (I'm like a puppy that can't stop wagging its tail, it's so embarrassing and yet completely unavoidable...) In this specific case, the guy is always very positive in his interactions with me, doesn't say anything rude/suggestive/inappropriate, and like I said seems interested in visiting me or me visiting him. One thing that may be bad (I'm not sure or not) is that I initiate contact more than him, although does it matter who starts the conversation? Who knows.

So I suppose my other worry is that out of this excitement or hopes I come out too intense for a lot of people, even though I am interested in the more introverted types that balance me out. I agree wholeheartedly about the full life concept--I am currently working full time, just finished some grad schooling and now moving on to another degree, and I volunteer at several different organizations (and participate in several crazy sports: one of my newest is skydiving!!) So I feel like I do a good job of living my life to the fullest, and I think the sad part for me is I wish I had someone to share it all with. Maybe my problem is my eagerness to tell someone these things and so I am pinning way too much expectation when I am still getting to know them.

 

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I experience the fantasizing about people pre-relationship. I've even imagined the whole relationship in several different scenarios. There's nothing wrong with that if there's something real there.
But when it all comes down to it, you just gotta let go and take a good look at what's actually going on. Do you really like this person as much as you think you do? Or do you just want to like them that much? Pay close attention to the things you say to each other, the things they say. Do they really tickle your fancy, or do you gloss over what they say and form an unrealistic picture of them in your mind? If you realize you're not seeing this person clearly, just let them go. you can find someone else. And you'll have better practice for next time in being present.

It helps if you can somehow become self-reliant too. That stops a lot of the neediness that provokes the fantasizing. If you have something else going on in your life occupying your time, something you're interested in, not only does that make you more interesting, but it also makes you more interested, in something else. For yourself. Do you have a hobby?
Exactly like me. I would also give the same sort of advice. I jump ahead of myself a lot & in the end it has me a lot of pain, anguish, frustration and a lot of blues. I feel so quickly, incredibly and deeply.
 

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I come off as too intense to a lot of people. So I just waid through looking for the other intense people. They're the only ones that interest me, really.
I've been told that I give out "too much, too soon." I have to severely edit what I say sometimes, because I have the tendency to give out too many details, or be too familiar with people, too fast for most. I tend to treat someone I don't even know the same way as I treat my best friends, if they're ale to hold the conversation.

Speaking as a guy, I can say that I like it when a girl tries to contact me, if I like her. 'Long as she's not blowing up my phone. But it's also nice to have comfortable days when there's no contact needed. I still got my own life to live. Just sharing
 

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It's funny because I just made a very similar post as the one I am about to make in another thread.

I totally understand your dilemma when it comes to expectations and dreams. At the moment I like this guy and I think he is perfect in every single way but the thing is that I thought the same about the last guy I liked and only when I got with him did I discover I really did not like him at all. I have a few reasons to think that it might be different this time around but I still can't be sure. I think the problem is that I get so caught up in these dreams that I have about him and us that I forget to look at the facts.
 

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I can totally relate to your post, but it doesn't just happen in relationships for me.

Whenever I meet new people (potential friends, to be specific), I tend to imagine one of them to be the perfect friend, so to say. Especially when we haven't talked much yet, my mind starts doing crazy things and I basically feel forced to talk more, fearing that I might lose him/her. Most of the time, though, conversations will leave me unsatisfied until I eventually realize that he/she, like any other human being, has certain traits which I dislike. Don't get me wrong, we'll still be friends afterwards, but reality just hits really hard sometimes.

A few days later, the search for the perfect friend continues and the whole cycle just repeats itself.. heh.
 

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If you recognize reality from the start, you're on even ground. There's no risk of falling. If you have an ideal of perfection that you want, and project that onto people... When they don't live up to the dreams, it's a letdown. You fall back down to reality. This kind of shock can screw up something that might've had the potential to go somewhere.
Recognizing someone else's faults can help in recognizing your own. Level ground, level eyes.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks everyone for the great insight, nice to hear that others can relate and what strategies you use to counter it! I am guilty of having ideals and affixing them to the person of the day, only to have it all fall flat in my face. I hate this habit and wish I could stop it, because sometimes the person hasn't said or done something wrong, it just doesn't match what I had pictured or hoped. I am aware I do it and yet it's like I can't stop myself. The only time I don't do this (or at least not so acutely) is when I'm distracted or preoccupied with other things or people in my life, and then I find myself pleasantly surprised.
 

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You'll figure it out, Ya know... Or, not.. XD I do know what thing, though You usually get what you want if it's realistic.

I was recently given some advice since I'm considering getting into a relationship with someone at the moment.
"You must be as resolute as a warrior against doubt and mistrust. When you can advance in correctness, do so. When you cannot, retreat without hesitation. A hidden enemy threatens. Search your subconscious for negative influences. The aid of a counselor can be beneficial in this. When you insight penetrates to the source of the problem, do not dwell on it. The ego will become entangled. Simply make the necessary correction, and persevere in it. When we are resolutely modest, independent, and correct, our external difficulties magically pass away and success is assured. The beginning has not been good, but progress is still possible. Carefully disengage from bad habits, and remain steadfast in following proper principles. Things change for the better. Sometimes the inferior enemy cannot be identified. Do not struggle, but quietly return to improving yourself. In this way a good result can still be obtained. "
 

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Well thanks everybody for your help, it means a lot even if things didn't seem to work out :/

The guy I posted about here was initially very responsive, but more and more recently has dropped off in contact. Last Saturday I finally emailed him some cool pics of an event he has asked me about, but he never wrote me back and I haven't heard from him since (I figured that if he wanted to reach me, he's got my email and phone number, and I was the last to reach out.)

I just don't get it--I am a 20-something who is successful in all other aspects of her life, yet when I get let down in the romance department I always feel crushed. I'm embarrassed to admit how much I'm hurt because most people would say I don't even know him that well and that I'm old enough to know not to get hopes up. There could be a zillion reasons why he's dropped off, but it feels so personal and I'm bummed. He was such an interesting guy who seemed so friendly, positive, interesting, etc., but I don't understand why he doesn't initiate. If I really wanted to, I'm sure I could text him right now and he'd respond (and of course he would be his awesome/friendly self) but I feel like it's important I'm not the only one making effort, even if it's just talking as friends. Is it worth telling someone how you feel about the situation?
 

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@PhoenixRises Tell him that. What's the worst that could happen, he might drop off even more? Well if that's already happening, then you've got nothing to lose. And it'll be most beneficial for your own experience. Who knows it might even get him to say something he might've been holding back. Just be gentle. Transparency is so important.
 

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Just as a side-note (and oh well, the right guy WILL pan out for you) it took me a long to realize I DO have a red flag warning system (after thinking, wtf do I not?!) and this may be true for all ENFJ's. People told me didn't you just hear this or that and go "OH F*** RUN!" I realized no, I thought "hmm.. that's odd.."

So if you meet someone and start having some "hmm.. that's odd.. " THAT is your red flag, it's just subtle :)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just as a side-note (and oh well, the right guy WILL pan out for you) it took me a long to realize I DO have a red flag warning system (after thinking, wtf do I not?!) and this may be true for all ENFJ's. People told me didn't you just hear this or that and go "OH F*** RUN!" I realized no, I thought "hmm.. that's odd.."

So if you meet someone and start having some "hmm.. that's odd.. " THAT is your red flag, it's just subtle :)
Amen to that! Have you seen the sticky post on 'Relationship Red Flags?' It's a long one but people have contributed some interesting/useful things they believe are red flags. Of course, it's different for everyone, but still pretty amusing to read all the lists and stories :)

PS The guy from this post now has pretty much fizzled in interest. I haven't tried to reach out anymore because if someone isn't going to make the effort with me, I let them go. It is definitely true that the right person will be undeterred and make the effort. There is a potential at this point, but I'm trying not to think too much or get excited (a guy I haven't seen in years, randomly ran into, and forgot how amazing he was. Maybe this is the ENFJ romantic in me, but it's too weird to have happened the way this did. Le sigh.) I always get my hopes up though. I guess I am just tired of putting myself out there, being open to meeting new people, and really taking a vested interest in them...only to end up with nothing. I want to meet someone who is just as passionate about learning who I am, too! I am not usually this pessimistic, I had a bad day today. And the cupcakes I just baked came out more like dried sponges, so there's that.
 

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"How do you slow down and stop from getting ahead of yourself and potentially ruining things?"
I don't mean this in a bad way, but this is kind of like a crackhead asking a whole group of crackheads how to stop smoking crack. :tongue:

I think we just need to let things progress slowly. Just remember that the ENFJ eagerness could possible come off as desperation or insanity to the other person and try to put the brakes on yourself. If there is another solution I'd love to hear it too.

How do you know if you're actually seeing things clearly, and is it good to sometimes have a bit of hope/fantasy to push you to confidence?
I am VERY guilty of this same thing (probably all ENFJs are). I think the problem lies in the battle between F & T. I feel like I have a pretty strong T, but I don't pay attention to it if it conflicts with my F. I can over-analyze something to death and have a very realistic view on how things will turn out, but my hopeful and idealistic nature will always win. You are correct, it helps with confidence, but it also makes things harder when our "plans" crumble.

Good luck and stay positive (which should be pretty natural).
 

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I don't mean this in a bad way, but this is kind of like a crackhead asking a whole group of crackheads how to stop smoking crack. :tongue:

I think we just need to let things progress slowly. Just remember that the ENFJ eagerness could possible come off as desperation or insanity to the other person and try to put the brakes on yourself. If there is another solution I'd love to hear it too.



I am VERY guilty of this same thing (probably all ENFJs are). I think the problem lies in the battle between F & T. I feel like I have a pretty strong T, but I don't pay attention to it if it conflicts with my F. I can over-analyze something to death and have a very realistic view on how things will turn out, but my hopeful and idealistic nature will always win. You are correct, it helps with confidence, but it also makes things harder when our "plans" crumble.

Good luck and stay positive (which should be pretty natural).
I completely identify with this. Most of the time, I think we know what's up - our intuition tells us so but we ignore it in hopes that we're wrong. Serial optimist and romantic here.

I fell for someone last year, in a way that I haven't before. For awhile, there was the "oh, does he like me?" game going on until some weeks later, he friendzoned me. I'll spare you all the details, but ultimately, despite his verbal hints of just wanting to be friends (yet contradictory behavior), I chose to ignore what my "T" was telling me because I was hoping that he felt the same way. Needless to say that it hurt very much weeks later when he told me he started dating someone.

Even though that was a difficult time, I tried to remind myself that I want someone who actually wants to be with me - not as someone's backup - someone who thinks I am worth fighting for. Didn't make it any less painful at that time, but I think using "T" when you're in the pits of "F" rabbit hole gave me the perspective to get out of it. Hope this helps and makes sense!!
 

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You are correct in not pursuing someone who isn't responding. It takes two to dance.

Serious romantic and idealist and was with another NF and thought things were going great. Tend to get ahead of myself and not see clearly the relationship for what it is. Lesson learned. The over eagerness of an ENFJ?
 
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