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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My main goal in life is...to be different, but at the same time, fit in. Does that make sense? It seems like somewhat of an oxymoron, but it makes sense in my head. I was browsing a bunch of posts by 4w5s and found that most of them just wanted to be different, just for the sake of it and that they never felt understood and had no desire to fit in at all. I might be wrong, but that's the conclusion I came to. On one hand I relate to that, but on the other, I don't. So maybe I'm not a 4w5?

I want to be unique, and that's been my focus for most of my life, I think. But I don't want to be unique just because I like to be different, it's more like...my identity deviates from the norm, it has to, but not so much that I'm completely alone. To me there's no point in being special or unique if it doesn't connect me to other people somehow. I want to be impressive to others, because I'm different, but still fit in, yet..stand out. Now I'm repeating myself, aren't I?

I want to be apart of a group of people, to feel like I belong; and to be honest I've never felt like I didn't belong. I've always yearned for acceptance and admiration, but in the form of being fiercely individual. My mind seems to be a constant tug-of-war of how I perceive me, and how others perceive me, and how to make harmony on both sides. Ugh, I don't even know what I'm trying to say.

At one point I thought I was a type 3 because I've always been overly concerned about how people perceive me. I love to fit in, be accepted, but not to conform. I love to be impressive, attractive, to feel belonging...that's type 3 in a nutshell, right? But when I found out about type 4, I gravitated more towards that but I'm thinking I have a 3 wing! What do you think?

My daydreams (which is a type 4 thing?) consist of me being individual, expressing my identity, but not just being that one puzzle piece that doesn't fit in, you know?

Oh, and another thing - looking through that "you know you're a 4 when" post, I found a bunch of posts stating things like "when you get upset because your friends like that band you thought you were the only one that liked" ..that isn't so much me, honestly. I prefer to be individuals together! Of course if it's some random stranger, then I might feel a little miffed.

Thoughts? Sorry for the most likely incoherent rambling lol
 

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You might want to look into type 6. Most of what you're saying sound more like things a 6 would say than a 4. And while 4w5 and 4w3 are very different, they still share the same core needs. The reason I say you don't sound like a 4 is because you said this:

and to be honest I've never felt like I didn't belong.
I don't think I've ever heard a 4 say that and mean it.

But I could be wrong - maybe you're a social 4.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You might want to look into type 6. Most of what you're saying sound more like things a 6 would say than a 4. And while 4w5 and 4w3 are very different, they still share the same core needs. The reason I say you don't sound like a 4 is because you said this:



I don't think I've ever heard a 4 say that and mean it.

But I could be wrong - maybe you're a social 4.
I read up a bit on type 6 and I'm not so sure if it suits me much? "Reliable, hard working, trustworhy, responsible"..yeah, that's not me at all. I tend to be very flightly and I'm not very good at keeping my word, nor am I at all hardworking. I can be loyal, but not to the point that I would ever be known for it. Which is something I should probably work on, but...

I also do not tend to be skeptical of things. As an ENFP (at least, I think it's an ENFP thing?), I'm more inclined to believe what I hear rather than question it, but of course I'm capable of doing so. I just tend to live in a world of optimism, unless something happens to get me down in the dumps. I'm also very trusting, I'll trust people until I have a reason not to, not the other way around.

I'm fairly sure I'm 4. I relate so much to almost everything I read in the forms that I actually got really emotional about it, because I thought I was alone in so much of it. I didn't think anyone else was so overly obsessed with their identity, and growing up, I was more inclined to be as strange and unique as possible than now. I guess what I meant by never feeling as if I don't belong is that I've never really had a me against the world mentality, I've felt as though not a lot of people really understand me, but never that there was nobody to understand me, or no one with the potential to. Maybe it's just because I am a very social person, and can't stand the feeling of being alone or completely distanced from people.

Thanks for the input though! I'll look into it some more. :D
 

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Keep in mind that most descriptions are extremely stereotypical and unreliable.
Both type 4 and type 6 (as well as 5) feel a sense of alienation from society but their reasons, aims and self perception are vastly different.

I think that this thread could be extremely helpful to you.
This description too.

But a lot of things you wrote are more typical of type 3w4.
"I want to be unique but only if it doesn't isolate me from others, to be both special and fitting in."

A lot of 3s harbor secret resentment since they cannot be seen as they are but they don't want to either since keeping up people's admiration and validation of their competency, of their presentation, is more important.

4s don't care about being hated or loved, unless it's something deeply personal and emotional.
What matters is being seen as myself, as the most genuine person I can be, as if I was the living translation of my thoughts and feelings.
 

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My main goal in life is...to be different, but at the same time, fit in. Does that make sense? It seems like somewhat of an oxymoron, but it makes sense in my head. I was browsing a bunch of posts by 4w5s and found that most of them just wanted to be different, just for the sake of it and that they never felt understood and had no desire to fit in at all. I might be wrong, but that's the conclusion I came to. On one hand I relate to that, but on the other, I don't. So maybe I'm not a 4w5?

I want to be unique, and that's been my focus for most of my life, I think. But I don't want to be unique just because I like to be different, it's more like...my identity deviates from the norm, it has to, but not so much that I'm completely alone. To me there's no point in being special or unique if it doesn't connect me to other people somehow. I want to be impressive to others, because I'm different, but still fit in, yet..stand out. Now I'm repeating myself, aren't I?

I want to be apart of a group of people, to feel like I belong; and to be honest I've never felt like I didn't belong. I've always yearned for acceptance and admiration, but in the form of being fiercely individual. My mind seems to be a constant tug-of-war of how I perceive me, and how others perceive me, and how to make harmony on both sides. Ugh, I don't even know what I'm trying to say.

At one point I thought I was a type 3 because I've always been overly concerned about how people perceive me. I love to fit in, be accepted, but not to conform. I love to be impressive, attractive, to feel belonging...that's type 3 in a nutshell, right? But when I found out about type 4, I gravitated more towards that but I'm thinking I have a 3 wing! What do you think?

My daydreams (which is a type 4 thing?) consist of me being individual, expressing my identity, but not just being that one puzzle piece that doesn't fit in, you know?

Oh, and another thing - looking through that "you know you're a 4 when" post, I found a bunch of posts stating things like "when you get upset because your friends like that band you thought you were the only one that liked" ..that isn't so much me, honestly. I prefer to be individuals together! Of course if it's some random stranger, then I might feel a little miffed.

Thoughts? Sorry for the most likely incoherent rambling lol
No it's not incoherent, you're actually touching a few essential points, for instance the tug of war you mentioned, which relates to 4s defense mechanism of Introjection, which may (or had) lead to self-contempt and alienation from true self, and therefor the need for establishing personal boundaries that are flexible enough to both connect with the world (permeable) while also able to contain (separate) and assert true self, and related necessary skills of handling (negative) feedback, in service of accomplishing these objectives.

Or does this sound vague to you? :tongue:

Introjection & Boundaries said:
Introjects are undiscerned pieces of the whole which we never analyzed before we took them into our psychological system; they often form the SHOULDS and OUGHT TO's in our make-up. To be REAL and in touch with our own integrity and morality we must digest and master what is truly our own, truly a part of the personality. But if we simply accept these rules and beliefs whole-hog and uncritically, on someone else's say so, or because they are fashionable or safe or traditional or unfashionable or dangerous or revolutionary---they lie heavily on us---introjects become undigested materials. They are still foreign bodies even though they may have taken up residence in our minds. Many times, one can see blocks of energy around the stomach area (unusual protection of the undigested material). The dangers of introjections are two fold; first of all, the man who introjects never gets a chance to develop his own personality, because he is so busy holding down the foreign bodies he has swallowed whole. The more introjects he has saddled himself with, the less room there is for him to express or even discover what he himself is. And in the second place, introjections contributes concepts, you may find yourself torn to bits in the process of trying to reconcile them. And this is a fairly common experience today. We end up incorporating into ourselves standards, attitudes, ways of acting and thinking, possibly coming from mother and father, which are not truly ours. Introjection moves the boundary between ourselves and the rest of the world so far inside ourselves that there is almost nothing of us left.

Paula Raines said:
There are numerous paths on the mystical quest. Each of the Enneagram points uses energies unique to its fixation to either fuel the drive to Unitive Consciousness or to fodder personal suffering and malcontent.

The classic depiction of Fours by most Enneagram teachers and writers is of introverted emotions driving emotional intensity and suffering. Certainly when Fours are functioning within the average to unhealthy levels of the Riso-Hudson continuum this description is accurate. At these levels, Fours are perceived as overly indulgent in emotions, too sensitive to perceived slights and criticism, and as melancholic outsiders who are self-involved with issues or attitudes about most other people. Fours at these psychological levels lose touch with day-to-day practical and physical needs as they become wrapped in their romanticized world of suffering and belief they are defective, different or special.

Yet many of the greatest mystics who have transcended culture and history are Fours. These mystics translate the energy of Four’s passion and longing into energies that drive a quest for connection with the Divine. The average to low functioning Four who is lost in feeling, craves deep connection with other people and despairs when s/he never achieves this desire. The healthy Four mystic uses the very “fact” of the disconnection as the “ground” from which to leap into an experience of the Divine.

(...) The dynamic that underpins the sexual and spiritual instinct drive in Four is deeper. It is a less understood and more rarefied archetype which is the ability to call the light suddenly into the darkness…the dawn after the dark night of the soul, or archetypically “a light in the dark.” Some of the greatest of the mystical poets, Rilke, Miribai, Rumi, Hafiz, Kabir, are clearly Fours driven by the “classic” Four’s longing and cry for connection. However, each of these mystics has transformed the desire into an ultimate longing for the Divine; a search which lights up their days and nights and leads them to ever more transcendent states of consciousness.
http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/mystical-longings----fourrsquos-search-for-the-beloved.html
 

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Out of curiosity, how old are you? What's your relationship with shame and envy?

You don't really strike me as a core four with what you posted so far.

To me, you seem to have a good sense of social dynamic.
As a social dom. 4w3 myself, I never thought of myself as someone who belonged. I DO have thoughts of wanting to be accepted by others and belong to a group (because the thought of social isolation and rejection makes me want to die lol) but I always felt too "different" and "weird" and thought I was better off by myself in the end. I spent many years thinking that I was just an outsider. But as I grew older and matured more, these kinds of things aren't occupying my mind as much as it used to due to me feeling more and more comfortable in my own skin and gaining more confidence in myself.

Also this issue with presenting yourself as unique as possible to others does exists in a 4w3 because of the 3 wing BUT, I've known many many fours (including myself) end up feeling as if trying to present yourself in an unique manner is very counter to what we actually strike for: authenticity and genuineness.

You do seem very image oriented but I feel like there are many factors that contribute to this. And yeah, as some people have mentioned so far, I think you might have to dig deeper and not count on stereotypical traits listed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Out of curiosity, how old are you? What's your relationship with shame and envy?

You don't really strike me as a core four with what you posted so far.

To me, you seem to have a good sense of social dynamic.
As a social dom. 4w3 myself, I never thought of myself as someone who belonged. I DO have thoughts of wanting to be accepted by others and belong to a group (because the thought of social isolation and rejection makes me want to die lol) but I always felt too "different" and "weird" and thought I was better off by myself in the end. I spent many years thinking that I was just an outsider. But as I grew older and matured more, these kinds of things aren't occupying my mind as much as it used to due to me feeling more and more comfortable in my own skin and gaining more confidence in myself.

Also this issue with presenting yourself as unique as possible to others does exists in a 4w3 because of the 3 wing BUT, I've known many many fours (including myself) end up feeling as if trying to present yourself in an unique manner is very counter to what we actually strike for: authenticity and genuineness.

You do seem very image oriented but I feel like there are many factors that contribute to this. And yeah, as some people have mentioned so far, I think you might have to dig deeper and not count on stereotypical traits listed.
I'm 15!

Shame and envy? Hm...I can't stand to feel ashamed. I feel ashamed of myself when others reject me, and I envy other people that are unique and are able to express it and aren't rejected for it, I guess? I envy carefree people, with a lot of friends..that's all I can really think of.

I was thinking about it earlier and I realized that I forgot to mention, from ages 9-12, give or take I was quite obsessed with being different. I went through all kinds of phases, experimenting with my identity as all teenagers do, but my goal was to be unique, and stand out. For a while I didn't care much about what people thought of me, I just wanted to be different and recognized as such. I had a hardcore tomboy phase when I was 10 because I didn't want to be like "all those girly girls", etc. When I was 13, I had a classic rock phase where I was really into obtaining that punk rock image, because I wanted to stand out and I also wanted people to think I was cool and unique.

At certain points, moreso recently I've tried to be more like other people my age. I started to feel as though I really didn't belong at all and it was scary, so I'd try to be less different, but still maintain that non-conformist flare.

I know I'm definitely not a type 6. I can't relate to it at all.

Another thing..one of the things that gets me going the most is when people think I'm someone who I'm not. I have pretty severe social anxiety, so a lot of the time I get labeled as introverted and it makes me SO mad. My life revolves around my identity, which I have a very strong sense of, and being misinterperted is one of the worst things to me. I also hate doing things that go against my self-image. For example, my mom would get mad at me and try to make me study when I was about 13 but I felt like I couldn't study, because I wanted to maintain my self-image at the time. I'm not sure what I was even going for. I guess I just wanted to be one of those people that didn't care about school and never had to study haha. She didn't understand at all.

I do relate to needing to be authentic and presenting myself genuinely. Like I said, presenting myself as someone I'm not is very very very distressing to me.
 

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double post
 

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I had 4w3 in my tritype, however after doing some research I don't Identify with the 3 as much as with the 5, so 4w5 it is.

I do need to be authentic and genuine as my core Fi couldn't handle the stress of not being myself, however I don't need validation nor don't give much thought about what others think of me. I do feel like I don't belong, and very misunderstood much of the time and there is some truth to people not seeing me for who I am. Often people will assume, or jump to conclusions about how I think or feel without actually asking me, or getting to know me well enough to make an accurate observation.

Sorry I can't be of more help, I don't have a solid handle with the ENNG, I only did enough research to understand myself and my behaviours.
 

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@CarmenAnne

I have to agree with some of the other posters here, it doesn't sound quite like type 4 to me...doesn't mean you're not, but it's worth exploring some of the other types.

Have you considered type 7, though? Sevens often have a similar desire to be cool, unique, different, whatever. They can have a strong sense of themselves and their own talents and gifts. What do you think about 7?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@CarmenAnne

I have to agree with some of the other posters here, it doesn't sound quite like type 4 to me...doesn't mean you're not, but it's worth exploring some of the other types.

Have you considered type 7, though? Sevens often have a similar desire to be cool, unique, different, whatever. They can have a strong sense of themselves and their own talents and gifts. What do you think about 7?
Hmm...you might be right. Especially with me being an ENFP, but I'm definitely not constantly seeking out fun and excitement. Of course I want to have fun and I get bored pretty easily, but I'm fairly content just hanging around most of the time.
 

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I wouldn't rule out being a 4 if individualism is truly your main goal in life. Also consider it as your second fix if the traits are there, but the core issue is not.

In my experience, I've usually discerned 4w3/4w5 as: 4w3's want to show the world (and gain praise from) their individualism, while 4w5's harbor a sort of resentment towards the outside world because they see themselves as alien from it. 4w3's are typically more extroverted than 4w5s.

Good luck!
 

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Hmm...you might be right. Especially with me being an ENFP, but I'm definitely not constantly seeking out fun and excitement. Of course I want to have fun and I get bored pretty easily, but I'm fairly content just hanging around most of the time.
I think the bolded is a misconception about 7s. I held it once myself. But it's not so much that they are constantly seeking fun and excitement (do you know anyone like that, really?), it's that they wish to avoid stagnation in life. They're always interested in the new and tend to appreciate the excitements and highs in life, but that doesn't mean they can't hang out a lot of the time, as long as it's stimulating them in some basic way. (This could simply be like watching cartoons on TV all day while eating ice cream and drawing little pictures, if the 7 feels it's somehow entertaining). @Vergil is a core 7 who is probably better than me at explaining it.

Well I think you should at least consider 7. There's probably a 4 in your tritype, too. Let us know what you all decide.
 

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I agree with posters above and was going to suggest it myself. A lot of what you say really resonates with me as a 4-fixed 7w6.

I'm going to say something that will sound condescending, but I promise you it's really not: you are 15. Every 15 year old feels like a type 4. That's what being 15 feels like. That's what being a teenager feels like. I was mistyping as a 4w3 at 18 - 4 and 7 are very different but lots and lots of 7s mistype as 4s, especially in their teens. Like, including me.

I can give you some insight into my experience as a 7: I do not constantly seek excitement and fun. Not consciously, at least. But when I think about the way I present myself to the world (and 7w6s can be very image-oriented imo! we fluctuate between wanting to be adored/seen as unique and not giving a fuck what other people think [or so we tell ourselves]) I realize that I am the comic relief and entertainment. Nothing about what I do is boring - I have purple hair and big glasses, I'm constantly cracking jokes, I'm very "light." I have an inner world that is dark and twisty and intense and creepy and deep red - but I don't share that with the world, in general. Nor do I really like to dwell there myself. I take comfort in knowing it's there, and I enjoy accessing it when I'm acting or singing or passionately lipsynching to Sia songs, but it's not where I live. I don't live on the surface, either, necessarily - I'm not shallow, I'm also not stupid. I live somewhere in the middle, somewhere closer to my head than my heart - which is, I guess, why 7 is in the head center.


@Kipposhi did a pretty good job of explaining the basics of 7, though - we wish to avoid stagnation. For many of us (myself included) this means avoiding boredom, which is where the stereotype of the "sugar rush theme park 7" came from. But stagnation is also... feeling walled in, like there's nowhere to go, there's no "what's next," there's no point. I have a theory that 7s are searching for some deeper significance in everything we do, and that's why we do so much. We are perhaps running from our own feelings and boredom, but maybe we're also running from the terrifying notion that there is no real point in anything we do. We are all afraid that we will never actually find what we really want in life. (Now I'm loosely quoting the enneagram institute website, but that sentence in particular has stayed with me since I first read it.)

Here is a song that I personally feel encompasses the darker side of type 7 (with a 4 fix). This is how I feel when I feel trapped in a situation or feeling. Originally I thought this song was very 4ish but I don't think a core four would describe themselves as "perpetually human." Could be very wrong about that. (Regina Spektor is a core 9, anyway, so this isn't the ~Official Sad 7 Theme Song~)


Those are just my thoughts and my experience. This thread should also perhaps be moved to the What's My Type forum?
 

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At certain points, moreso recently I've tried to be more like other people my age. I started to feel as though I really didn't belong at all and it was scary, so I'd try to be less different, but still maintain that non-conformist flare.
Another thing that makes me think 7w6, not 4w3. Your reaction to feeling like you didn't belong wasn't shame, it was fear.

AND ANOTHER THING: fuck the stereotype that 7s don't have a strong sense of self, too. I've seen that in a few places (mostly on the internet, on message boards and blog posts) and I question it. I've always had a very strong sense of who I am and what my values are. What I lack is the sense to let myself feel my emotions when they happen. Probably. At least, that's what everyone says and it's probably true. I don't think I'm a very emotional person, but I also know that I let my emotions all out in one quick cathartic burst about once a month on the phone to my mom and otherwise I'm pretty chill.

I cry watching movies, though. I've never watched a movie I didn't cry at. I just watched The Devil Wears Prada for the first time tonight, and I cried.
 

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Regina Spektor probably has fixes in the 4 and 6w7-7w6 range, so she might be a great example

Anyway...I've never really felt that I truly belong anywhere, and if it's not a sense that I don't belong anywhere, it's a sense that I don't belong in one place. It's why i call myself nomadic, my soul and my mind I don't feel have a home and also I prefer to explore. I hate things that tie me down. From a very early age, I remember feeling very disillusioned with what I saw around me...because it felt blank, or as I'd call it then, like it just wasn't 'real'. So I sought that rawness wherever I could, but at the same time, I felt insecure and awkward and below everyone. 13 was the worst, everyone's terribly insecure then. I tried in my clumsy ways to mimic what others were doing. I noticed they all so easily fit into some kind of dress, music, style, etc. that fit them into a much larger group of people. There was always a greater sense of futility for me, tho, so I tried once or a few times and gave up. Eventually I began to realize it just wasn't gonna happen, I was trying to play a part which I'm just not good at, I'm not really too great at playing parts. I wanted what they had, but at the same time, I felt like they were only playing parts. I always wondered why they were so good at it themselves. I also realized at the same time that none of it was satisfying to me anyway, yet I could never deny a part of me wanted it. That inability to fit in start flipping around to where it wasn't that I was lesser, it was that I was greater, more enlightened, less nonsensical, more thoughtful, more in touch with what was raw and real. But I would look around me at what people were doing and constantly wish I could do that. I just felt I was missing out on something because they all seemed so happy. I felt I couldn't have it because it wasn't possible. And it's not so much i want to be different, but that I just am, it's unshakeable. What I want is to live my life like it's a work of art, art being what comes from the soul, that place of rawness. All that comes from the soul isn't so much meant for concrete words or ordinary language, nor is it very easily understood in human ways

By the way, all I have to show for myself and that contempt I had is that I still don't have my license because I laughed at everyone who was rushing to get theirs at 15-16 lol. But let's assume I'm properly typed as some people have thought I was more a 4w5. But that's my input and I feel as if a lot of that comes from the 4 in me
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I wouldn't rule out being a 4 if individualism is truly your main goal in life. Also consider it as your second fix if the traits are there, but the core issue is not.

In my experience, I've usually discerned 4w3/4w5 as: 4w3's want to show the world (and gain praise from) their individualism, while 4w5's harbor a sort of resentment towards the outside world because they see themselves as alien from it. 4w3's are typically more extroverted than 4w5s.

Good luck!
That's exactly why I think I'm a 4w3. For as long as I can remember, virtually my entire life, my main goal has been to receive praise for my individualism. I've constantly sought out individualism because I have felt different, but I've also yearned for approval and admiration. I've always been a daydreamer, and my daydreams have always consisted of imperssing others with how unique and individual I am, and I feel that without that in my life there's no point. Like, I need to be different and I need people to be impressed with that, and to think I'm cool...I'd definitely say that's my main goal in life.

I'd go as far as saying it's what motivates me. For a long time I thought I was shallow because I realized that I don't really do anything for myself, so much as I do it to impress others and to turn their heads my way. I've always wanted to stand out, be different and earn my status that way, and I spent a good two years of my life thinking I was "fake" because I cultivated my personality around weirdness in order to create an identity that I could obtain what I wanted with.

I don't think I was explaining myself correctly in my original post.

Could I be a core 3? I'm not sure if my "main goal in life" or whatever is that of a three of four, but after doing a lot of reading of both I'm fairly sure it's one of them...

But to those of you suggesting 7w6, I'll look into it. :) I do see a bit enneagram 7 in me, but I really do think my main purpose in life has always been what I explained before. I few years ago, when I was about 12 or 13 (I've always been extremely self-aware), I realized that my entire life seemed to revolve around being different and impressing people.

But regarding type 6, I don't see any of it in me...neither "loyal" or "skeptic" suit me at all, but I'm gonna do a bit more reading on it before I completely rule it out.
 

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Please keep in mind that nearly all 15-year-olds have a Fourish flavor to their personality. Feeling like you don't fit in is an inherent part of being a teenager. Even a 5w6 sp/so will have some features associated with Type Four during their teenage years, and that's probably the least Fourish type out of them all.

Although 7w6 and 6w7 are good suggestions, I recommend starting off your research with Type Three. You seem like you might be a 3w4.
 

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A potential long-ass post up ahead. Bear with me if you're interested in what I have to say.

My main goal in life is...to be different, but at the same time, fit in. Does that make sense? It seems like somewhat of an oxymoron, but it makes sense in my head. I was browsing a bunch of posts by 4w5s and found that most of them just wanted to be different, just for the sake of it and that they never felt understood and had no desire to fit in at all. I might be wrong, but that's the conclusion I came to. On one hand I relate to that, but on the other, I don't. So maybe I'm not a 4w5?

I want to be unique, and that's been my focus for most of my life, I think. But I don't want to be unique just because I like to be different, it's more like...my identity deviates from the norm, it has to, but not so much that I'm completely alone. To me there's no point in being special or unique if it doesn't connect me to other people somehow. I want to be impressive to others, because I'm different, but still fit in, yet..stand out. Now I'm repeating myself, aren't I?

I want to be apart of a group of people, to feel like I belong; and to be honest I've never felt like I didn't belong. I've always yearned for acceptance and admiration, but in the form of being fiercely individual. My mind seems to be a constant tug-of-war of how I perceive me, and how others perceive me, and how to make harmony on both sides. Ugh, I don't even know what I'm trying to say.

At one point I thought I was a type 3 because I've always been overly concerned about how people perceive me. I love to fit in, be accepted, but not to conform. I love to be impressive, attractive, to feel belonging...that's type 3 in a nutshell, right? But when I found out about type 4, I gravitated more towards that but I'm thinking I have a 3 wing! What do you think?

My daydreams (which is a type 4 thing?) consist of me being individual, expressing my identity, but not just being that one puzzle piece that doesn't fit in, you know?

Oh, and another thing - looking through that "you know you're a 4 when" post, I found a bunch of posts stating things like "when you get upset because your friends like that band you thought you were the only one that liked" ..that isn't so much me, honestly. I prefer to be individuals together! Of course if it's some random stranger, then I might feel a little miffed.

Thoughts? Sorry for the most likely incoherent rambling lol
As far as I can gather (blue parts), your need for individuality is actually less a need for individuality itself, but more a need for adoration from peers for standing out. The need to belong and be accepted is actually an expression of the need for external acknowledgment, and the way you write it the acknowledgement ought to be a positive validation of your image. Negative feedback makes you change your mannerism/style.

This focus on positive feedback and validation is not typically a quality associated with type 4s. E4 is not overly focused on external validation. The way I understand it, 4s are individualistic because of their need to be themselves while discarding anything that is not their own, because anything that is not ones own is perceived as an impurity, as inauthentic - fakeness. @mimesis' post on the duality of introjection explains this perfectly.

You need what is not yours to show you what is yours. But at the same time, having or using what is not yours makes you an impure representation of what you could be.

Again, reading through the blue parts shows that your experimentation with styles/trends is not driven by the pursuit to find what is truly you while using your peers as contrast. It seems that your need is simply to be appealing, yet not mainstream.

Orange is a blatant stereotype.

So far, the following types seem like possibilities for your type -
1) 3
2) 6
3) 7
4) (improbable, but possible) 9

I read up a bit on type 6 and I'm not so sure if it suits me much? "Reliable, hard working, trustworhy, responsible"..yeah, that's not me at all. I tend to be very flightly and I'm not very good at keeping my word, nor am I at all hardworking. I can be loyal, but not to the point that I would ever be known for it. Which is something I should probably work on, but...

I also do not tend to be skeptical of things. As an ENFP (at least, I think it's an ENFP thing?), I'm more inclined to believe what I hear rather than question it, but of course I'm capable of doing so. I just tend to live in a world of optimism, unless something happens to get me down in the dumps. I'm also very trusting, I'll trust people until I have a reason not to, not the other way around.

I'm fairly sure I'm 4. I relate so much to almost everything I read in the forms that I actually got really emotional about it, because I thought I was alone in so much of it. I didn't think anyone else was so overly obsessed with their identity, and growing up, I was more inclined to be as strange and unique as possible than now. I guess what I meant by never feeling as if I don't belong is that I've never really had a me against the world mentality, I've felt as though not a lot of people really understand me, but never that there was nobody to understand me, or no one with the potential to. Maybe it's just because I am a very social person, and can't stand the feeling of being alone or completely distanced from people.

Thanks for the input though! I'll look into it some more. :D
The tendency to not doubt things right from the get-go is associated with 7 and 9. Both are positive outlook types. 7s tend not to doubt because they are not predisposed to looking at anything but the bright side (almost compulsively so) and 9s consider doubting and worrying a gratuitous exercise. Clearly, there are a lot of indicators towards 7.

The last paragraph makes me (almost) certain that you are SO first.

The feeling not being understood by everyone yet believing that there could be people who can understand you is something a lot of 7s feel. Not everyone gets us (if they did, there wouldn't be so many stereotypes of us doing rounds on the internet). But we don't feel hopeless about it and we usually take what we can get without getting too upset or disheartened.

Orange is a blatant stereotype. Again.

I'm 15!

Shame and envy? Hm...I can't stand to feel ashamed. I feel ashamed of myself when others reject me, and I envy other people that are unique and are able to express it and aren't rejected for it, I guess? I envy carefree people, with a lot of friends..that's all I can really think of.

I was thinking about it earlier and I realized that I forgot to mention, from ages 9-12, give or take I was quite obsessed with being different. I went through all kinds of phases, experimenting with my identity as all teenagers do, but my goal was to be unique, and stand out. For a while I didn't care much about what people thought of me, I just wanted to be different and recognized as such. I had a hardcore tomboy phase when I was 10 because I didn't want to be like "all those girly girls", etc. When I was 13, I had a classic rock phase where I was really into obtaining that punk rock image, because I wanted to stand out and I also wanted people to think I was cool and unique.

At certain points, moreso recently I've tried to be more like other people my age. I started to feel as though I really didn't belong at all and it was scary, so I'd try to be less different, but still maintain that non-conformist flare.

I know I'm definitely not a type 6. I can't relate to it at all.

Another thing..one of the things that gets me going the most is when people think I'm someone who I'm not. I have pretty severe social anxiety, so a lot of the time I get labeled as introverted and it makes me SO mad. My life revolves around my identity, which I have a very strong sense of, and being misinterperted is one of the worst things to me. I also hate doing things that go against my self-image. For example, my mom would get mad at me and try to make me study when I was about 13 but I felt like I couldn't study, because I wanted to maintain my self-image at the time. I'm not sure what I was even going for. I guess I just wanted to be one of those people that didn't care about school and never had to study haha. She didn't understand at all.

I do relate to needing to be authentic and presenting myself genuinely. Like I said, presenting myself as someone I'm not is very very very distressing to me.
The first paragraph reveals two things - narcissism and jealousy. In the enneagram envy is meant to convey something completely different (yet not too far) from jealousy. It took me some time to understand that myself.

For example: I feel jealous when I see someone having something I have wanted for the longest time. I feel jealous when I see someone visibly more enthusiastic about life than I am.

More elaborately, I feel like I should also have what they have. I have nothing against them having the things I want, but I want it, too. I do not wish to rob another of a thing they have just because I want it.

The way I see it, you want to stand out from the mainstream yet be accepted for it and you are jealous of those who have these qualities. You do not wish doom upon such people. You merely wish you also had what they have.

The underlined part - it was scary - is a clear giveaway that what drives you is fear. It is not sadness or despair or a longing for a love you think impossible. It is the fear of sadness, of despair and of other things you consider unpleasant (which are essentially perceived as fearsome). More indicators pointing to 7.

That's exactly why I think I'm a 4w3. For as long as I can remember, virtually my entire life, my main goal has been to receive praise for my individualism. I've constantly sought out individualism because I have felt different, but I've also yearned for approval and admiration. I've always been a daydreamer, and my daydreams have always consisted of imperssing others with how unique and individual I am, and I feel that without that in my life there's no point. Like, I need to be different and I need people to be impressed with that, and to think I'm cool...I'd definitely say that's my main goal in life.

I'd go as far as saying it's what motivates me. For a long time I thought I was shallow because I realized that I don't really do anything for myself, so much as I do it to impress others and to turn their heads my way. I've always wanted to stand out, be different and earn my status that way, and I spent a good two years of my life thinking I was "fake" because I cultivated my personality around weirdness in order to create an identity that I could obtain what I wanted with.

I don't think I was explaining myself correctly in my original post.

Could I be a core 3? I'm not sure if my "main goal in life" or whatever is that of a three of four, but after doing a lot of reading of both I'm fairly sure it's one of them...

But to those of you suggesting 7w6, I'll look into it. :) I do see a bit enneagram 7 in me, but I really do think my main purpose in life has always been what I explained before. I few years ago, when I was about 12 or 13 (I've always been extremely self-aware), I realized that my entire life seemed to revolve around being different and impressing people.

But regarding type 6, I don't see any of it in me...neither "loyal" or "skeptic" suit me at all, but I'm gonna do a bit more reading on it before I completely rule it out.
The red parts and more so the underlined parts is you admitting that your objective is garnering praise. There is no room for negative feedback. This is consistent with narcissism.

Perhaps the only somewhat 4 thing that a core 4 could relate to would be the mustard colored bit - feeling of fakeness for doing something just to gain approval.

I think it likely that you are a 7 with a 4 fix. @justforthespark has given you a lot of points that show how 7 and 4 can seem alike but are not. A 4 fix kinda muddles the mystery about motivation, but a little probing is all it takes.
@Kipposhi thank you for that mention :)

A final word of advice: hold your horses till you're a little older. Teenage is not known for its stabilizing effect on an individual's psyche.
 
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