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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
You know... unrealistically nice to everyone, walked all over, idealizes women, afraid of conflict, unable to express anger or aggression, very sensitive and emotional, low confidence and insecure, needy, hurt, wanting to please, not assertive, rejecting dating games that seem like manipulation, guilty or ashamed of their masculine side?

Many INFP traits seem to go right along with being a nice guy and finishing last. Good listener, puts other's need ahead of his own, ect. I have been working for a long time to rid myself of insecurities and get in touch with parts of me that I rejected before due to my idealism. For my own health, but also so that I can attract women.

Any of you guys struggled with being this way?

Had trouble with women because of it (You're the kind of guy I'd marry, not date)?



Do these actors piss you off?
 

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You know... unrealistically nice to everyone, walked all over, idealizes women, afraid of conflict, unable to express anger or aggression, very sensitive and emotional, low confidence and insecure, needy, hurt, wanting to please, not assertive, rejecting dating games that seem like manipulation, guilty or ashamed of their masculine side?

Many INFP traits seem to go right along with being a nice guy and finishing last. Good listener, puts other's need ahead of his own, ect. I have been working for a long time to rid myself of insecurities and get in touch with parts of me that I rejected before due to my idealism. For my own health, but also so that I can attract women.

Any of you guys struggled with being this way?

Had trouble with women because of it (You're the kind of guy I'd marry, not date)?
Yes to being afraid of conflict, unable to express anger, not assertive, and ashamed of masculinity. But I don't really have a problem with any of these things. I'm definitely not a people pleaser but at the same time I usually just try to get along with people for the sake of avoiding conflict. And people don't really walk over me, it just takes a lot for things to get to me. If it was anything in serious violation of my morals then I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself.

I've accepted that I have traits that are "stereotypically feminine" but that's just a label put in place by society. And I really don't give two shits about what society deems as normal male (or female for that matter) characteristics.
 

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Yes we do.......:frustrating:
Although i'm a manly man and my view on conflict is a bit different from a lot of other INFP's, I still get the whole nice guy label.I guess being more of an A$$h01e would fix this problem, unfortunately I don't have it in me to be that way. Unless I really don't like you then I can be a total and complete A$$h01e otherwise i'm mister nice guy.
 

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YES! Every thing you said is so me. And yes i have certainly had trouble with women as a result.

One girl I dated kept leaving me whenever something better came along and, as an idealistic INFP, I kept taking her back because each time I thought "this time will be different." She later admitted it was because she thought I was too nice to ever leave her, so because I treated her with the respect and consideration she deserved she took me for granted and thought I'd always be there to pick up the pieces.

In addition to being too "nice," I've also seen plenty of potential relationships fizzle out of the gate because I was afraid to make the "big moves" and get rejected. Some girls have even gone so far as to assume I was gay because I didn't try to get them in bed by the second date. This I attribute to my lack of confidence and insecurity with myself, as well as an ineptitude in noticing and interpreting social cues.

I feel like "you're a great guy, I know you'll find someone who's right for you some day" is a phrase INFP's hear more than any other type. And no matter how often we hear it, it never gets any easier.
 

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I often feel that way and worry that i am percieved that way. But in all honesty my problems with women haven't exactly been caused by their lack of interest in me. It's mainly just that the life i lead is alternate to the norm and most women would not like it, which leaves me with only a small number of girls for me to choose from. Which is quite depressing. When ive applied myself i have had my fair share of success in life even though i often feel that i haven't. I'm a firm believer in nice guys finishing first, it may be harder and we may face disapointments but in the end the results will be better.
 

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Yes we do.......:frustrating:
Although i'm a manly man and my view on conflict is a bit different from a lot of other INFP's, I still get the whole nice guy label.I guess being more of an A$$h01e would fix this problem, unfortunately I don't have it in me to be that way. Unless I really don't like you then I can be a total and complete A$$h01e otherwise i'm mister nice guy.
Girls I don't like/are not attracted to I have no problem being a dick to, which of course makes them like me because women like the chase. But with girls I actually like, I have a hard time hiding my feelings and go way out of my way to be polite to them or help them out. Of course, they don't like me because they know they can have me and hey, where's the fun in that?

It's an eternal conundrum. Do I stay true to myself and continue to be Captain Nice Guy and banish myself to the "friend zone", or start acting like a dick to attract women and become one of the shallow douchebags I've always hated????? Ugh. Sometimes I wish I were an Se dominant so I wouldn't constantly obsess over this shit
 

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I am just not the kind of take charge, kick butt and take names kind of person that seems to be so popular. I am not the one to chase after girls anyway, and I would even hesitate to do that if I had something of a special feeling towards them. Besides, all the times that happened it was rarely more than a minor crush.
The very notion of fighting for someone's heart is anathema to me. If I have to go out 'convincing', 'persuading' or 'seducing' girls so that they feel I am worthy of loving, it a non-starter.

Bottom line, if they want me they better be ready to ask me, because I am too introverted/shy/scared to do that.

And I need someone who can follow where I am going both with my thoughts and with my feelings. I find that most can't. The one for me needs to have an inquisitive mind, she needs to be curious about things. She needs to be willing and able to use her brain. I am not asking for high IQ or high education, I am asking for the willingness to use what they have.

And as for feelings, I will love someone with all that I have and all that I am. For me a lukewarm relationship with someone who 'is not sure yet' is not the thing.

But I got lucky. I did find that very special one in the end, although it is just as much a case of her finding me.
 

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I think it's good to be nice and sincere, but also have a backbone. Have a strong sense of self so that women can catch on those vibes.

Other than that, hah, if only you knew the number of women who cry over wanting men to be ''nice'' for a change :crazy:
 

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I feel like "you're a great guy, I know you'll find someone who's right for you some day" is a phrase INFP's hear more than any other type. And no matter how often we hear it, it never gets any easier.
I've lost count of the number of rejections I've had with that line being the explanation. Not only has it not gotten easier, it gets harder to take every time. Sometimes I wish that the girl would instead slap me in the face and call me a rotten bastard with no value as a human being. At least it would make me feel like my loneliness was a deserved punishment. Instead, it's like a chocolate covered ball of dung, a compliment covered rejection.
 

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Sometimes I wish that the girl would instead slap me in the face and call me a rotten bastard with no value as a human being. At least it would make me feel like my loneliness was a deserved punishment. Instead, it's like a chocolate covered ball of dung, a compliment covered rejection.
Right on dude. And lol @ the metaphor, very nice work :laughing: It doesn't feel like it means much when they say it, but I'd still prefer it to the verbal lashing. I tend to take any criticism as a personality flaw, and while I'm sure I'm fully dysfunctional and thoroughly clueless and awkward, I have a hard time reminding myself that one person not liking me does not signify the end of the world.
 

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I've lost count of the number of rejections I've had with that line being the explanation. Not only has it not gotten easier, it gets harder to take every time. Sometimes I wish that the girl would instead slap me in the face and call me a rotten bastard with no value as a human being. At least it would make me feel like my loneliness was a deserved punishment. Instead, it's like a chocolate covered ball of dung, a compliment covered rejection.
I've had to deal with that too. "You're a sweet girl. Someday the right man will come along."

What it usually means is, "Yeah, I'll be your friend as long as I don't have to touch you. I can't fall in love with an ugly girl, especially a crazy one."

Although sometimes it's, "You're awesome, but I'm gay" or "My girlfriend would just love you. You have so much in common!"

I would only consider a guy who was nice, considerate, and somewhat feminine. Unfortunately, you guys don't seem to want me. If any do, I'm here. Still waiting.

 

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I don't really like the term feminine being used to describe being nice and understanding, it is slightly sexist, although unfortunately acceptable in today's society. I find that the girls who only won't date the 'nice guy' are a waste of time, as there are women out there who are looking for a sensitive kind person to be with; as you can see above, snail for example=D
 

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I'd say I suffer from most of those traits and it has inhibited me a lot in the past. The only exception really, is that now I have the confidence to actually make a move -- and that makes the world of difference.

Every trait mentioned in the opening paragraph is something that most girls can admire (or overlook, depending) with the exception of low confidence. I'm not saying you need to be the most dashing guy out there, but remember that most girls suffer from low self esteem. If you're at least a bit higher than her in that category, you'll be a-ok.

As someone who has had a lot of long term relationships, girls "fall" for me based on a lot of the traits you consider a weakness. The last 3 girls I've shown romantic interest in said "are you sure you're not a girl? I have never heard a guy speak about things the way you do" to which I had no idea how to interpret.. are they insulting me? Fortunately they followed it up with "you're everything I've ever wanted." Phew, ego restored. For the record, yes, I can have a bit of a bad boy edge, but that's more of a bonus (pleasant surprise, but unnecessary) after they've already been won over. I don't act like a sleeze or anything early on :p, that's much later!

From my experience, many women aren't particularly needy or demanding as guys make them out to be. It's just that they get bombarded with guys trying to court them all the time that, what a guy may interpret as interest (eye contact across the room) a girl may need a lot more validation (approach + hi + somewhat forward flirting). Girls get checked out all the time, they get talked to all the time, so if you're interested in someone you need to kick yourself in the ass to make an actual move. You can't half-ass your move either, otherwise they'll write you off as a friend (which most have too many of already) or just small talk.

I think any kind of guy can land a lady, but you will rarely get anywhere unless you have the confidence to actually initiate "first contact." I see what some of you are saying about how you should not have to sell yourself, people should appreciate you for who you are. That is entirely true, but they have to know you exist first. Otherwise, they settle for the best jerk that comes along and honestly, how can you blame them?
 

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I am just not the kind of take charge, kick butt and take names kind of person that seems to be so popular. I am not the one to chase after girls anyway, and I would even hesitate to do that if I had something of a special feeling towards them. Besides, all the times that happened it was rarely more than a minor crush.
The very notion of fighting for someone's heart is anathema to me. If I have to go out 'convincing', 'persuading' or 'seducing' girls so that they feel I am worthy of loving, it a non-starter.

Bottom line, if they want me they better be ready to ask me, because I am too introverted/shy/scared to do that.

And I need someone who can follow where I am going both with my thoughts and with my feelings. I find that most can't. The one for me needs to have an inquisitive mind, she needs to be curious about things. She needs to be willing and able to use her brain. I am not asking for high IQ or high education, I am asking for the willingness to use what they have.

And as for feelings, I will love someone with all that I have and all that I am. For me a lukewarm relationship with someone who 'is not sure yet' is not the thing.
That's word for word what I was going to say..................:mellow:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I've changed in a lot of ways that have kept me from feeling like the guy who isn't treated like a man by girls. Like doing martial arts, confronting mean people, standing up for myself, being proud of my differences instead of ashamed, acting a little less wide-eyed idealistic and holding back my desire to make everyone feel good about themselves to my own detriment.

Just the other day, a cute cashier gave me the wrong change, only off by a buck and a quarter which I usually wouldn't notice because I'd rather her be comfortable than me get my money, and because I'm feeling more secure nowadays, I made her open the register and give me more money. Then she miscounted again, held up the line, and I told her again, you owe me some change. It was refreshing for her to be the embarrassed one and for me to feel like I deserve being treated fairly. Plus, no one got hurt, and I didn't walk away feeling like a wuss. Little successes like that one keep building me up.

It just seems like so much of this stuff was a huge challenge for me growing up because I was so sensitive to people liking me and had such low self-esteem. I agree with a lot of what Lad is saying, in fact I'm really glad to hear that he has had the same inhibitions because he seems to have the kind of confidence all of us struggle with. I don't think the traits I mentioned are weaknesses, in fact many of them are what I hold dear and think of as setting me apart from the jerks. I'm just fearful of having them to an extreme that drives people away and tells them we don't deserve to be treated like men.

I think a lot of our issues are misinterpreted as weaknesses and hurt us in a very real way before we are ever able to deal with them and win enough confidence to have success in an unidealistic world. But again, every time I watch a movie with some nice guy in it, it absolutely drives me crazy and reminds me of all the good-intentioned, soul wretching failures I've had trying to make that first move with a very crappy hand dealt to me. I hope we can all become the men we want to be and get the success and security we desire so much.
 

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Interesting question. As a young INFP I suffered with all of these things and then when I hit around 21 I realized that if I wanted to have any success with the ladies I had to tone down a lot of these qualities in the initial datiing process. I learned that giving to much of myself away to a woman immediately was a recipe for disaster and I also learned that I had to be willling to a bit harsh and walk away if necessary.

When I got into an actual relationship all of my INFP tendencies would come out and I just had to learn to put them back in check when I found myself single again. I think, for the most part , that women like INFP qualities in a partner but they still have the need for that bit of mystery and that "bad boy" quality at the beginning. No woman wants a dude that is totally pooring out his heart and acting
 
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No, I can't say I've ever had this problem. Most people think I'm an asshole, yet I don't feel "wanted" by girls in the slightest.

Honestly, I associate "nice guy" syndrome more with INFJ's. Fi has nothing to do with kindness.
 
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