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Discussion Starter #1
So. What your opinion regarding to that particular topic mentioned in the title.

Bc Ive seen a change in human mating behavior in last 20 years. When I was a kid, girls used to go for the boys. Women would send all these signals for the game to begin. But I see that women/girls of these days are running more after their own voice, mirror image and luxury. I mean come on, incel guys, wth is wrong with all of us?

Did I get it all wrong, but weren't men and women supposed to have dif roles in life?
 

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So, is your issue that women are pursuing things beyond pleasing men and waiting to be courted? Or that some women are superficial (running after luxury and a mirror image)? Both?

I am an INTJ woman who has been with an INTJ man (but currently is not). All of the men that I've dated have appreciated my independence. I don't doubt that some men would hate it -- but, given that, we'd never even make it to a first date. With things like Tinder, people more and more using technology, pop culture, dating has changed. Arguably, people expect instant gratification more and some argue that it's more superficial. While true, I think that this issue is far separated from NT women being independent.
 

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I would like to find somebody someday, but I'm personally working on being more stable career-wise before playing.

Now I'm just worried that all the "good ones" will be gone by the time I'm done since I faced a few set-backs already :bored:...
 

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So. What your opinion regarding to that particular topic mentioned in the title.

Bc Ive seen a change in human mating behavior in last 20 years. When I was a kid, girls used to go for the boys. Women would send all these signals for the game to begin. But I see that women/girls of these days are running more after their own voice, mirror image and luxury. I mean come on, incel guys, wth is wrong with all of us?

Did I get it all wrong, but weren't men and women supposed to have dif roles in life?
I would like to find somebody someday, but I'm personally working on being more stable career-wise before playing.

Now I'm just worried that all the "good ones" will be gone by the time I'm done since I faced a few set-backs already :bored:...
In case both of you haven't realized it yet, there are causation relationships between your words.

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It's because women are realizing their own worth outside of men. The fact that it's 2018 and there are dating apps, websites, etc, makes it inevitable for the "rules of dating" to change.

I personally enjoy seeing traditional gender roles swapping. Of course, it depends on what works for each person. Some women still take joy in being a homemaker, others enjoy being businesswomen. Some men like the role being the main breadwinner, others like taking care of their kids.

To answer the main question, I know of a few INTJ women who have had no issues finding an SO. Each have found their partner in a different way from the other.
 

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Not sure if I get the question buuuut... I don't like waiting around, sending "signals" that men are often oblivous to. I am an INTJ - when I want something, I don't sit around idly, I go and get it. If a guy is offended by my active approach, he's not the right type of man for me.
With my current SO, I've bypassed the whole dating game by basically telling him that I'm interested in more than friendship and things developed from there. Later he told me that he never considers romantic relationship unless the woman gives crystal clear information that she wants him in that way. He doesn't want "signs" or "hints", he even had instances of very unhappy women who told him that they wanted him but waited for him to make a move, and he said sorry, I am not doing that.
My ENTJ friend has similar approach, he won't pursue a relationship unless the woman clearly states her interest. He used to "chase" women to win their interest but that never works.
So I guess the rules may have changed a bit, but this is just anecdotal evidence. I believe there may still be many people who belive in the whole "women send signals" and "men pursue them" thing...
 

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Not sure if I get the question buuuut... I don't like waiting around, sending "signals" that men are often oblivous to. I am an INTJ - when I want something, I don't sit around idly, I go and get it. If a guy is offended by my active approach, he's not the right type of man for me.
With my current SO, I've bypassed the whole dating game by basically telling him that I'm interested in more than friendship and things developed from there. Later he told me that he never considers romantic relationship unless the woman gives crystal clear information that she wants him in that way. He doesn't want "signs" or "hints", he even had instances of very unhappy women who told him that they wanted him but waited for him to make a move, and he said sorry, I am not doing that.
My ENTJ friend has similar approach, he won't pursue a relationship unless the woman clearly states her interest. He used to "chase" women to win their interest but that never works.
So I guess the rules may have changed a bit, but this is just anecdotal evidence. I believe there may still be many people who belive in the whole "women send signals" and "men pursue them" thing...
I can relate to what you said, as anecdotes. Because INTJs are exceptions and not the norms since we are lacking the emotional "intelligence" in gauging other's emotion. Bluntness is given and expected.
 

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So. What your opinion regarding to that particular topic mentioned in the title.

Bc Ive seen a change in human mating behavior in last 20 years. When I was a kid, girls used to go for the boys. Women would send all these signals for the game to begin. But I see that women/girls of these days are running more after their own voice, mirror image and luxury. I mean come on, incel guys, wth is wrong with all of us?

Did I get it all wrong, but weren't men and women supposed to have dif roles in life?
This seems as though proposing that no one has a mate and women and men aren't getting together. They are. It's just that incels have found each other on the internet and magnify their issue when it's really a small portion of the overall population. Probably the same amount it always has been of "incels", they just have a more readily found communication and grouping with each other now.

It's like people who only read stories about crime and think crime has gone way up when it's down in many places.

To answer the title or part of the question - I am an INTJ female with an INTJ male. I'm not sure how our "different roles in life" play into it. I'm not sure that I particularly purposefully "signaled" anything. We're both independent people that have gotten together. Yay. I dunno what else to say about that. *shrug*
 

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In case both of you haven't realized it yet, there are causation relationships between your words.

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Sorry to be dense, but what do you mean?
 

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It doesn't really seem like your question is specific to INTJs but rather just the gender roles that men and women typically express.

Did you mean to ask a question about INTJs in particular? I don't really see much to go off of from what you wrote if that's the case.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Interesting realities and POV´s.

I will now try to kill this thread by my own probably immense thinking process mistakes. So where ever I go lunatic, please advice about what the truth in your opinion.

I derivated this idea for a discussion about the phenomena from that fact that both IRL and in here I see very little longer term connection being made. There are some ppl who respect each other, some ppl who like one another, but it seems more of aquintaceship nature. When I'm comparing us to many other subforms I see almost zero drive for mating. So I was just wondering, are all the girls here in loving relationships or are all men here too intelligent to concentrate on the mating hints, or, are the ladies here too something that just seems no to work in their favor in this particular manner. Or smt else perhaps such as women coming to PerC to find info and not to socialize with opportunities in their minds. Or smt thing completely else.

Bc. I have noticed lots of intj men discussing about not having intimate engagements but women, not that much. It seems to me we might or have a pattern here of either higher real life sex drive for intj women that get em saturated than intj men (which I don't really believe in, but is always a possibility) or intj women like to shag more with me who are mainly not intjs? Or perhaps smt entirely else. So I thought maybe it has to do with competence to show interest online. Who knows. Thats why Im asking you about your expertise.

So. Starting from the beginning in a sec. Just a note 1st. Catwalk and Eyesopen have nailed the fun part of it. Thx for that one.

This is my lame attempt to entertain the thread as a loser that I am, possibly even an incel, dunno, gotta look more into it 1st. But definitely a nerd, judging from what I invest time and money into IRL.
@Dissentient

Both.

But especially the inability to deal with anything that differs from the self. Many intj women, and I really would like to focus specifically to our own type, might find it incredibly difficult to attract and intj man. Or to deal with an intj man. It can go to extents where she will find one just and perfectly like herself and then you will see a break up. Ive witnessed this IRL tons of times, Im looking it happening in front of my own eyes with intjs and find it just incredibly weird. I get the sensation that this is just wrong, that just didn’t happen for real. Then I go and reconnect the fuckers.

The inclination toward perfectionism is outstanding indeed, in the so called post modern society. I find that also in INFJs, just in a more moderated quantity. Is the the combo of beauty, intelligence and financial independence thats generating this? I mean it goes even to the extreme of being alone at 20-30-40-50, while wanting to share life with someone at the exact same time, kids, and so forth. Why is this happening. Are there not abilities to charm and hold and intj man, or are there so many other men out there to get sex and cash from its ok w/o an intj man. Bc the thing is, INTJ men do not stand that low sociosexually. Or do they? Bc I see intj men little bit sidetracked here, meaning lots of intj women coming and going on a weekly/monthly basis but most intj men frequenting the subforum literally a few times a day. It means the men get more from here or what, are more desperate? Thats an alarm signal for me, from a sociological POV, that avg intj mens sex value is lesser not to say way lesser than the avg intj woman. Meaning either she can not get to him or she thinks she's too .. dunno .. great to for him?

About money. Im a more traditional man. I felt weird about two wallets after 1st month with my now passed away intj sosx wife. Thats how I work. Yet in my mind it has nothing to do with any type of leverage, it was just more practical that way since we were both relatively wealthy from our familys´ sides that we never really thought about money that way. Nor any other type of independence. Its was just a natural merge to make it a lesser stress factor.

But the part with instant gratification might be where we might find something more deep to look at. Perhaps that is linked to the media side of things, as well. That is smt that had yet failed to cross my mind entirely. If you cared to elaborate that a bit, Id guess many would like to hear more.
@birdsintrees
Really. I always thought I wasn't capable of giving labour. Dont be ridiculous you think. Well, I really can’t carry a kid inside of me. Ill give you my office dress, when I get back to UK in December, pls visit us and try putting a baby in my uterus. That be a first timer.
@starscream430
Thx for the genuinely open POV. Career is a major factor these days. It aint easy to make 200k or 400k from thin air for a house and the equivalent for a small business to become independent enough to take the risk to form a decent relationship where you as a man can fulfill the base needs and more of the wives. I respect that in you mate. Not to mention raising a family. You are a respectable guy bc of the sense of responsibility you're showing here. So not having the time, that is.

About all the good ones are gone by then. Can be, but there are plenty of women who are in the precise same situation as you are stability wisely. And lots of younger women too to fall in love with later if you are more selective regarding to the age side. Own age / 2 plus two years is the algo to that, btw. :))

Just thinking, you find intj women capable of seducing you?
@contradictionary
Thx for stepping in. No. Hadnt noticed it at all. Care to elaborate? :))) Heck, even tell us your opinion about the OP.

You too: Are intj women capable to seduce you?
@isaac_a15
Interesting. I agree. Women do have a value outside their man. But Id like to listen more carefully to what you exactly mean by that in context with time frame. If you don't mind that is.

You do? Im sorry mate. Im not with you on gender role swaps. Might fricken lead to transsexual set up. No. I think a woman should always be protected by a man, financially and from every single POV. Regardless of how Im feeling about that, why is it that you do fancy the change it that? The ups, the downs?

I know too a few intjs IRL. I have over 100 of us working in our company. And yes. They do find a SO. VERY easily. Just that most do not end with intj (men) like supposingly you and me are, why? Is there a problem of lesbian intjs women in mass Im just unaware of? They surely as hell weren’t lesbians when I was dealing with them in my youth.
@elight
Let me see if Im getting you right here. Too.
Interesting. So you'd find men somewhat blind to mating hints, thats why you use direct approach to get success as an outcome. Offended by your direct approach won't be a problem for an intj man thats for sure. So both theoretically and practically your method should yield/yields results in no time at all. But. Why won't many other intj women find this as a solution? Are they afraid of getting refused, or loosing face publicly or that maybe they aren't as attractive like they'd like to think they are. Or cause of lack of resources or what? Or are intj men somewhat unattractive to intj women, or what is it. Whats the limiting factor here?

Thx for sharing the enriching personal expertise too. Im extremely happy for your settled reality thats having a perfect compatibility with you needs I red from the connection thread, as I already mentioned there. I see what your SO means and where he(she) is coming from. Im another type of man (person) myself. I like teasing/testing/the game/heating-coooling-heating way too much to go fast directly. I get unexited when women do that, or expect me to do that. I want to take it low and slow, and then, when the timing is perfect, hit it harder than anyone ever before me; With consistency in higher highs in intensity and depth - pushing the boundaries of the positive. I feel like Im giving it for free if I go full steam right off the bat. I make her earn it. That way shell also respect getting/having it and also protect it as sacred. Again, thats just how I work. Im not happy with not leading. Its the hardest thing I can submit myself to. Its the max sacrifice from me. It only happens if Im so in love with a woman it makes me think Im either being led astray by deceit and emot. manipulation or make me take in calc that I just might want to marry her. In those specific scenarios I take a step back to let her the full freedom to show what her real intentions are. Its extremely painful for me, but Ill do that for the sake of greater good or self protection.

I have an ENTJ man who Ive trusted to handle a decent sector of my life. SXso 8w7. Charming fellow. What him and I have in common is the fact that we tend to push our image down as far as direct deceit of EVERYTHING about us, but towards the unattractive. thats how we filter noise from gold, I guess. Im Ixxx, he is Exxx, we got married before knowing each other and actually found our via our wives that we use the exact same tactic in our mating selection process.

We do that to form a fake chase in order to make us feel the power of not loosing the control under the most extreme circumstances and while doing that also test the depths of the intentions/feelings of the woman. Its a real rush to have someone from old money league, who is an intj, stunningly gorgeous physically, witty, with a high IQ, and extremely desired by practically all men who ever encountered her to love you even if you'd fake all your qualities into anti-them. Even more so if the social intelligence is high enough for her to call a man out on self-deprecation which means she truly gets it who and what you are. Or to call you an impotent in a public sphere with her pregnant with you kid being 8months old inside of her. That she's having the kid with the pool boy, pointing a finger at him who at the time was 12yo. Thats a catch for any guy to marry. thats some serious self confidence to put out in front of an entire group of not only wealthy but genetically alpha males. I used to love that. INTJ women at their best. And thats just the social cheekiness. Theres way more than just that.

I never said boys pursuit girls. I said for the game to begin. Its a whole another level than boys going after girls. Its compatibility and caring under test. Even forgiveness for minor errors that are immediately fixed in order to not make em repeating patterns. And so forth.

Also. You find talk about women who failed where as you didn’t great. And sure. Its a winners feeling. But I can’t work like that. I feel sadness for them not making it. Sure, its in my own advantage that they didn’t, but the part where theres outside humiliation being processed regarding to their losses.. I would find it almost impossible to express a humiliation process about an ex of mine with pride. I find that profoundly disgusting behavior. Everyone has flaws but to ridiculer them merciless just is .. well I would like to know myself about a man doing not that. So yeah. If you try doing that with in a hypothetic imaginary set up, Id literally leave you right there naked and all and permanently piss of from your life. Alphas do not need nor like social status validation. The just. …are. Im sorry if I upset you by say that, or even many of you, but that kinda proved my point. Theres no skill set for intj women to handle intj men. You girls think you can, but really really really few of you actually can. WHY? Why is this a reality. Are you virused by lower quality men who you’re spending your time while sharing your bodies to? Is there smt you accept that we get weirded out by? Or is there more. Im pointing this out not to draw attention to any particular case, but to raise awareness for the general problem in order to actually find a potential solution.

My issue here is this. Are INTJ women ready to handle attract, handle and then maintain that? Like the real abilities and necessary talent and skill set to keep things working, rolling long term and interesting. I mean IRL or here, I see very little talent in women pushing the hint or the concrete buttons of the intj men. And I still fail to comprehend why. Apart from my now passed away wife. I have found that generally INTJ women are afraid to drill in. They need a lot of excitement to sent out those signals or to come to you. Its not like they don't do it, bc they certainly do, its just that they need way more than infj, intp, infp who will do the liking online, and the rest of hints or the max 5min till the start the hair touching stuff IRL or the a look at you when they raise their mojitos and so forth not to mention entj, entps, enfj, and enfps whom WILL come to hit on you during the max 3 sec after they see you. Make that 1 sec. Its like theres a fear or smt else similar.

@C.D.

I get your point mate. Really do, but wheres all the fun part then of mingling. I love the hints and the process of the game for the sake of its own and that it gives time to figure out if I wanna be with her for more than 1min or not. The more I spend time with her the more it means she adds CONTINUOUS value to my life.
@Denature

Thx for the suggesting. Im very familiar with that piece of art.

That is my biggest fear man. That its a fake, anti natural, social construction to harm the productivity and the reproduction system of the human race. Its a conscious network of enforcement, support and even empowerment the social anomalies in views and values so that ppl would then sabo by this their own life quality - without even ever realizing they're doing it. Its a trap for the weak to fall into. They get the fact that their lives aint working, but they can't put their finger on it, can they. Its like a person who watches TV on a daily basis, and then wonders why he hasn't got time. OR, even worse, the fellow who looks at his kids and wonders when did they grew up so fast, that he'd wish them to be small again, to spend time with em, to actually know who they are. They lack the perception about how when an entire system is built to generate low consciousness levels (pride or less, from the 17 that are out there) to generate hidden slavery the end outcome of that being that all of us suffer. some admit that, most live in denial. bc its hard. Its hard to accept the truth. (I should know that one well enough with a passed away wife.) Some live a delusion for being untaught (self or external) - and that is VERY different from educated = brainwashed - some for encountering idiocy DAILY. Almost all the time. And some, fewer, but still who realize this shit we are into, will actually rob us the higher vibration levels of the soul and actually fuck up our eternities! All suffer bc of lack of liberty. Liberty to be who they really are with the ppl who are like em. Liberation from the bugged thinking and association patterns. Freedom from sin, that is.

In online socialization, I was hoping to understand WHY INTJ women are seemingly uninterested in INTJ men or if they are, whys there no action? I mean we all come here because of the similar ppl no, so wheres the fruits of that level of effort n time? Kinda stagnating outcome no? Wheres the excitement here?
@EyesOpen

You are right. I am. But Im not referring to casual chit chat. I mean real connections. Like this: Hey wanna have my email address? Hey wanna meet up? Hey, having this and that business idea what do you say, would you wanna jump in and make it as a team? Or you have really big lips, Id really fancy tasting em both, or as we ve been together for a year now you wanna marry me and even show everyone on PerC the it can happen originating from there for sake of inspiration, anything really.

Incels. I know. But I went to study the phenomena in one of their online meetings and its fucken scary, even for a guy like me with three wars udder my belt and more, what they are talking there. Shit like planning gang stalking and followed by a gang rape when ever a opportunity arises etc killing via torture shit. I mean, most or at least some of us have kids here, sisters, mothers, girl friends, wifes and so one. So wtf. I did try to reorientate those discussions, and succeeded, but Im afraid its just a momentary impact. They are in it for real. Its war between em and the women. I mean that shit is pure cumulative hatred. Got me worried, anyway. Some of us carry firearms on us, many even 2 for shitheads like that. But. Wouldn't it be nicer to solve this issue sociologically or at least psychologically than militarily? I mean those men need some serious support regarding to their view of women, bc their perception is that women are evil. so they need to shed blood for punishment?! wth. Its really weird shit. But they lack to see that thats just soft boundaries. Its just a shield not to get fucked by weak men. Its not like that is who women really are.

Im not sure if that is a global phenomena, or if its just in western societies. But what I can say its getting MASSIVE support. I think these poor fucks have been so badly humiliated by women they just are at level shame at those 17 levels of consciousness, so either they kill emselves of humiliate by raping .. ANY?? .. woman? I find it highly disturbing. Like the rest of the dark/deep side of the interned.

But again. Why do you think INTJ women do not engage INTJ men online, say this very subforum.
 

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I find the question interesting, because dating as a "mating ritual" is less then 5 years old in my country; quite new.
As such the "rules" of dating are still somewhat.. unclear to the majority of people.

My analysis of the current trend thus is:
1. Males do some "not acceptable" things by female standards.
2. Some females take legal action against that.
3. This leads to a increasingly careful approach to females by men.

However, I still think its a minority problem. Many people still hook up at the pub and parties initially.
The above, though, is unrelated to type and just a general observation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now to the INTJ side of things. Don't know, don't even see it as an issue requiring analysis. It is what it is.
 
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Sorry to be dense, but what do you mean?
There seems to be shifting of life priorities, especially on the female kinds. You confirmed it.
@Sandstread
I agree with what elight said. Intjs give direct bluntness, expecting the same in return. So when they met i assume there will be no mistery nor drama.

Unfortunately for me i'm quite new to this mbti and for the life of me i can hardly remember i had met any intj woman here. Noone i know fit the descriptions. So i can't really testify to the above...



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Discussion Starter #19
CD.

Elight is an example of a MATURE intj woman. I just noticed she's like b. in 1990. Heck I thought she was in her 60s listening to her opinions here and there. But. Not all women are mature. Not even close to all. So what Im interested in is this. Why won't many other intj women engage faster.

I know you are new. I can still remember you coming to the subforum thrilled about your new discoveries. And getting rid of the sadness that had been there. I respect you pal. There are not many ppl who raise up from the death like you've done there by rationalization. And solutioning. Heh, Id bet you'll do actually pretty big stuff in your life there. So. Don't worry about that mate.

Whats happened to you is actually this. bc you´ve learned the mbti from a young age, even if lesser years under thy belt, the essence you can today absorb from all of that experience may be 10, or 1000 times more than a person who, unfortunately, does not share knowing this system with you. Or understanding it.

But you got this one pretty well imagined: Not much of mystery. Zero drama. Unless you reallllyyyyy like and intj, then you gotta test the character a bits. Well, I do that, anyway. :)
 

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Attract an INTJ man? Easy! Just open THE BOX!


Rare footage of an INTJ female attracting and INTJ male and his 3 best friends.
 
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