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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know I'm an INTJ and many MBTI sources describe the INTJ to be arrogant/confident (though the MBTI description honestly doesn't mean that much---that's really a discussion for another time) but I can't help but notice that it's statistically significant among INTJs (at least online) so just curious. (I wouldn't know because I have low self-confidence (except for the things I really know that I'm good at, and thus I can't really say that I find low self-confidence to be repulsive because that would steer me further down the path of self-loathing (like I need anymore of that) *ok, other thing, I have quite a self-deprecating sense of humour and I've observed that it impedes my social interactions because people think that it's socially unacceptable to laugh at my jokes because then they would be laughing at me. do any of you INTJs have the same problem socially lol?*
 

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It is not so much ''low confidence,'' - for myself, but how it manifest(s) specifically and [generally] in most individual(s) that acquire it;

Ex; (1)
-->

Dependency™

High-functioning sensitivity™

Constant Reassurance™

Self-defeatist™ Mindsets


____________

All in which; I have no innate draw to (&) you will not find me associating with this individual -- the aspect(s) of my personality; does not infuse exceptionally with individual(s) in these mindset(s);


Individual(s) with high-dependency conflict with my desire for independency / individualistic / solitary pursuit(s), (&) thus, have the most difficulties adapting to, and understanding it.


Individual(s) with that need constant-reassurance, will also not mix with my private / introverted (&) emotional-illiteracy that takes time to implement.


I find individual(s) that need constant-reassurance [ to my standard(s)] in a healthy way, to be (F)™ types to which I can adjust to, however, their constant-reassurance does not manifest in a form 'not believing it true,' (e.g., my word(s) / assertions are lies) - like the individual that lacks sufficient confidence does, the (FP™) constant-reassurance therein lies within my ambiguity / cognitive empathy or differential expressions.


I find ''self-defeatists,'' mindsets to be the most fixed in their ways / beliefs - and, this manifests in individual(s) lacking in confidence to such extreme degrees to which it spew(s) / leak(s) out onto myself to which cause conflict(s). This, also mixed with ''high-functioning sensitivity,'' will MOST incompatiable (via) my innate personality structure.

[HR][/HR]

On that cue;


There ARE, indeed, specimen that lack of confidence manifest(s), as I implied above, differetiate from the following (via) Ex; (1) -- to which I can tolerate / deal with (&) work with.

Ex; (A)
--->

Lacking in confidence in certain aspects of appearance || Tolerable.

Lacking in confidence in certain aspects of work / performance || Tolerable.

The degree (e.g., moderate / high / low) of confidence, or lack of also matter(s) as well - there are also ways that ''lack of confidence,'' is present, however, does not really conflict with myself in a debilitating manner.

A thin line appear(s) between ''confidence,'' (&) purposeful arrogance -- which, with MY personality, appear(s) to resort to stubbornness (&) concussions from continuous 'head butts' and power-plays; which appears the ''number one,'' complaint regarding INTJ.
 

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I don't think being INTJ is more or less inclined to be attracted to confidence than any other type.
I think in generally people find confidence attractive. Confidence helps one stand out in the crowd.

However this is not always the person one 'falls in love with' for many reasons.
One reason being those who tend to attract the types of people who hold insecurities (or low self confidence) are often those who have those same qualities within themselves. Whether we realise it or not how we behave tells others how to treat us as it's about what we accept from others.

A confident person who is comfortable with who they are is more likely to make decisions inline with what is best for them.

A person with low confidence, be it due to an insecurity they hold, is more likely to make a decision based on the insecurity or inner fear, essentially to find a 'crutch' for their insecurity which may or may not be best for them.

This is a human thing to compensate for our own weaknesses, not a type thing.
 

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I think self deprecating humour isn't that funny, unless it has the context of some awkward (or silly) situation.
About the attractiveness: I find lack of self confidence more annoying than non attractive, unless that person reacts with the need to elevate his-self (or to diminish others) to compensate that feeling - that's a repulsive behaviour.
 

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I'm generally confident. I know what I'm good at and that is enough. Its alright for people to doubt themselves sometimes. But I don't understand the need to put themselves down in front of others. What is the intention? It will annoy me if they are constantly saying something negative about themselves expecting some kind of consolation from me.

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I know I'm an INTJ and many MBTI sources describe the INTJ to be arrogant/confident (though the MBTI description honestly doesn't mean that much---that's really a discussion for another time) but I can't help but notice that it's statistically significant among INTJs (at least online) so just curious. (I wouldn't know because I have low self-confidence (except for the things I really know that I'm good at, and thus I can't really say that I find low self-confidence to be repulsive because that would steer me further down the path of self-loathing (like I need anymore of that) *ok, other thing, I have quite a self-deprecating sense of humour and I've observed that it impedes my social interactions because people think that it's socially unacceptable to laugh at my jokes because then they would be laughing at me. do any of you INTJs have the same problem socially lol?*
The question in the title of your post is different from what you are describing/asking in your post.

I do find low self confidence unattractive. In fact, I find it very annoying. I won't call it repulsive though.

One of the things that I've noticed in people with low self-confidence is that it seems to be a state in which they are most comfortable. This isn't always true of course. There are cases where people really try to get more confident and actively try to work on it. I can respect those that try. What I can't respect is those people that just seem to be fine with it and try to make everyone know they don't think that much of them selves. It makes me wonder in what way they get comfortable with it. Is it simply a need to be an underdog? Is it fear of responsibility? It must be something, because when there is no action to do something about one's "suffering" there has to be a reason for it. Perhaps it's just fear of change. The unknown is less comfortable than the known of the current suffering. At least the known is predictable. At least with the predictability of the known, there is comfort in the certainty that it won't get worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
What if it was 'constantly saying negative things about myself' for humour?

I don't know, sometimes I just like laughing when I fuck stuff up because it's so funny to think that I tried so hard and then made a careless mistake. My point isn't usually to say 'I made a mistake and it's a really rare occurrence' it's more that I'm laughing at the situation itself. I laugh even when it happens to other people but more so when it happens to me because I'm usually not that observant of other people lol.

Last time I wrote an essay for history and the content of my essay was quite good but then I left an important sentence in my conclusion with a comma, a double space and a full stop. I just said "what kind of an idiot am I? to spend so long writing that essay just to forget something so small yet significant". In the end, I still got an A- and it wasn't the grade I was concerned over, it was more that it's so funny to think that spent so long on it just to make a silly mistake like that.
 

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I like quiet confidence, detecting that this person knows/is comfortable with who they are while also being open to new perspectives and pro-growth. These types of people can be mistaken as shy or of low confidence (often due to physical appearance) yet I see it as them having learnt the life skills around more listening than talking, it doesn't impede their will or ability to pursue their goals and they don't need everyone to know about it either. INTJs can be shy but confidence is separate to both that and the INTJ profile in itself.

How I see 'low confidence' has been described well by the members above. I would describe that as low self-esteem coupled with low confidence, since 'confidence' is somewhat vague. These types of people are annoying and unattractive, Catwalk describes perfectly what this can lead to and why I have no time for it anymore.

Now if you're defining low confidence as not being extroverted and confrontational, I urge you to rethink this often misconstrued word. This is what confidence comes down to:

Merriam Webster online dictionary said:
confident
adjective con·fi·dent \ˈkän-fə-dənt, -ˌdent\

Full Definition of confident
1
: full of conviction : certain <confident of success> <confident that conditions will improve>

2
: having or showing assurance and self-reliance <a confident young businessman> <a confident manner>

3
obsolete : trustful, confiding
It is the second definition that is often confused and taken as being the full definition. If someone is going about their life pursuing their goals with an optimistic rather than self-defeatist attitude (even if they have reasons such as anxiety, lack of social skills, etc. to overcome), then that is the essence of confidence.

A note on self-depreciating humour: I've always found that awkward, often-times those jokes seem loaded and I don't know what to do. It's not funny and I don't want to react at all to it but no reaction is taken as a reaction... Now if this was someone I knew with varying types of humour in his repertoire and his intent was clear, I can laugh over that - I have those jokes inside my head all the time.
 

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What if it was 'constantly saying negative things about myself' for humour?

I don't know, sometimes I just like laughing when I fuck stuff up because it's so funny to think that I tried so hard and then made a careless mistake. My point isn't usually to say 'I made a mistake and it's a really rare occurrence' it's more that I'm laughing at the situation itself. I laugh even when it happens to other people but more so when it happens to me because I'm usually not that observant of other people lol.

Last time I wrote an essay for history and the content of my essay was quite good but then I left an important sentence in my conclusion with a comma, a double space and a full stop. I just said "what kind of an idiot am I? to spend so long writing that essay just to forget something so small yet significant". In the end, I still got an A- and it wasn't the grade I was concerned over, it was more that it's so funny to think that spent so long on it just to make a silly mistake like that.
Constantly? Ehh... How does that happen? That would be bothersome.

If you pointed things like that out every now and then, I'd find that hilarious - that example above wasn't loaded though.

I do stupid shit all the time. There have been several times, for example, when I was completely absorbed in my head and went to the kitchen for something... came all the way back up with something else, then laughed at myself and went back down again to forget once again. I pointed this out only today, saying, 'Bloody hell, I'm an idiot!' :laughing: That kind of laughter over a situation isn't loaded; it isn't about recurring real problems.

A friend I had during sixth form was very self-defeatist, anxious, paranoid and an all-around whiner. His way of joking over a situation tended to use these phrases:

- And that's why no one likes me
- Of course this would happen to ME, <insert a situation in which he fucked up and it was kinda funny>
- What's the point? Shit things always happen except to <insert people he was envious about>

I won't go on, it was all annoying as fuck.
 

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Depends. Low confidence and low self esteem in the form of targeting other's self esteem is not only boring to see but most likely to lose all respect I could have for that given person.

A lot of good people are not confident in themselves. I don't really care if someone has a poor image of themselves, as long as it isn't overbearing and doesn't define them as a person. INTJ's are the hardest on themselves and when they are presented with someone who appears weak, we have a natural reaction to find that unappealing.

We also have to answer what confidence really is. Most people simply just define it as a feeling of affirmation, internal security that is addictive due to our feeling nature. I would argue confidence is a surety of oneself, when self-trust and self-competence has become a constant in someone's life. Then there is no need for feelings of inadequacy.
 

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people think that it's socially unacceptable to laugh at my jokes because then they would be laughing at me. do any of you INTJs have the same problem socially lol?*
it's a grey zone. i tell stories against myself too, but mostly when i'm amused by myself without caring about the outcome of whatever goofball thing i just did. when i do care, it's not funny and i don't try to make a funny story of it.

what makes me uncomfortable is when i sense someone is genuinely angry with themselves, and trying to pretend it's a joke. my instinct is to go straight for the things that matter. when the person it matters to is playing a bullshit game of 'ha ha, it's funny' i hate it.

it's not because i don't want to laugh at their misfortunes. it's because i don't believe them.
 
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Absolutely.

Confidence, to me, is self acceptance, owning up to your flaws, being comfortable in your own skin. If you don't/can't/won't accept who you are, who can/will?

I set the bar highest for myself, but that only motivates me to do better. I don't let my shortcomings define who I am as a person.


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Im more attracted to intelligence, I tend to forgive most other things if you are intelligent enough.

Why I love Penguin from Gotham! Perfect little Sociopath

 

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i actualy dont care about confidence or no confidence,i like intellegence better,and if a girl can do something cool like shes a good pianist then im in,if a girl is super creative then i wouldnt care about confidence
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I like quiet confidence, detecting that this person knows/is comfortable with who they are while also being open to new perspectives and pro-growth. These types of people can be mistaken as shy or of low confidence (often due to physical appearance) yet I see it as them having learnt the life skills around more listening than talking, it doesn't impede their will or ability to pursue their goals and they don't need everyone to know about it either. INTJs can be shy but confidence is separate to both that and the INTJ profile in itself.

How I see 'low confidence' has been described well by the members above. I would describe that as low self-esteem coupled with low confidence, since 'confidence' is somewhat vague. These types of people are annoying and unattractive, Catwalk describes perfectly what this can lead to and why I have no time for it anymore.

Now if you're defining low confidence as not being extroverted and confrontational, I urge you to rethink this often misconstrued word. This is what confidence comes down to:



It is the second definition that is often confused and taken as being the full definition. If someone is going about their life pursuing their goals with an optimistic rather than self-defeatist attitude (even if they have reasons such as anxiety, lack of social skills, etc. to overcome), then that is the essence of confidence.

A note on self-depreciating humour: I've always found that awkward, often-times those jokes seem loaded and I don't know what to do. It's not funny and I don't want to react at all to it but no reaction is taken as a reaction... Now if this was someone I knew with varying types of humour in his repertoire and his intent was clear, I can laugh over that - I have those jokes inside my head all the time.
It's actually quite paradoxical. I have anxiety and also what I would class as low self-esteem. I have quite a self-defeatist attitude but then I still never give up and try my best in all situations, I just continually doubt myself afterwards. But I'm usually quite resilient, I get over failure really quick and I never give up. My self-defeatist attitude is more of a fear of failure rather than a hard time responding to failure. And whenever fail, I like to laugh at the situation because it makes me feel better about it (which is conveyed as self-deprecation). Serious contemplation has also made me think that by justifying my failures (distributing the blame on something---eventually, I evenly divide it), I get a sense of closure, which is both a blessing and a curse because in the long run, justifying only makes me feel better temporarily and gives me an excuse to not improve myself for the better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Constantly? Ehh... How does that happen? That would be bothersome.

If you pointed things like that out every now and then, I'd find that hilarious - that example above wasn't loaded though.

I do stupid shit all the time. There have been several times, for example, when I was completely absorbed in my head and went to the kitchen for something... came all the way back up with something else, then laughed at myself and went back down again to forget once again. I pointed this out only today, saying, 'Bloody hell, I'm an idiot!' :laughing: That kind of laughter over a situation isn't loaded; it isn't about recurring real problems.

A friend I had during sixth form was very self-defeatist, anxious, paranoid and an all-around whiner. His way of joking over a situation tended to use these phrases:

- And that's why no one likes me
- Of course this would happen to ME, <insert a situation in which he fucked up and it was kinda funny>
- What's the point? Shit things always happen except to <insert people he was envious about>

I won't go on, it was all annoying as fuck.
Ok well at least my comments are less whiny. I never sound like I want people's pity (my best friend is an INTP and she always laughs at my self-deprecating jokes, she never complains that they're whiny (I think that if they did come off that way, she wouldn't laugh and just tell me that I'm being annoying)). It's just that my other friends (that I'm not as close with) don't think it's socially acceptable to laugh along with me. One that the INTP laughed along with was when I forgot someone's name and I said "look at me making so many friends". I'm sort of implying that I'm socially deficient, but then I'm not saying 'pity me', I just want you to laugh with me. And also, it was the first thought that came to my mind so I just blurted it out. And the more I think about it, the more it seems more like sarcasm than self-deprecation.

And I don't really care if people like me or not so I've never started a sentence like that. Plus I've never been that self-conscious about my looks or 've been particularly jealous or envious of other people, my self-doubt primarily lies in my belief of my own competency.

It's also not my only kind of humour, my INTP friend describes my humour to be dark, sarcastic and also sort of witty, so I wouldn't say that it's the only form of humor I show.

Ok so my question to you is, if you knew me in real life, would you also equate (in terms of annoyingness) my description with the 'pity me' quality of your sixth form friend's self-deprecation? You can be frank. I'm only asking not because I want to be liked by people but if it's hindering my social interaction (business opportunities+meeting new people!!*can't deny that I'm a social creature and that from an evolutionary standpoint, I do need to integrate with society*), I'd like to know how to adjust in different situations by improving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Absolutely.

Confidence, to me, is self acceptance, owning up to your flaws, being comfortable in your own skin. If you don't/can't/won't accept who you are, who can/will?

I set the bar highest for myself, but that only motivates me to do better. I don't let my shortcomings define who I am as a person.


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But isn't self-deprecation owning up to your flaws?
 

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My INTJ friend is brutally realistic about his own abilities as well as the things in his life that he wants to work on. He's confident about his strengths to the point of near-arrogance because he knows it's true.

(He actually said this: "Everyone at work knows I'm the man." And this is modest lmao).

But the funny thing is that he's so open and blunt about his weaknesses that he even seems confident about his flaws. Maybe to him, knowledge is confidence. Or maybe his lack of wallowing in negative emotion makes him seem confident? I'm not so sure.

:proud: I'll never understand you INTJs hahaha
 
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