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I have two INTJs as friends (one male, one female) and they both seem to have a strong aversion to loud or crowded places, (more so than I do and that's saying something). They also both seem anxious about how they're coming off to other people for example they'll notice when someone's judging them or they'll be overly cautious trying not to offend people.

I'm not sure what to think about this because they can easily pass as simply "INTJ traits", it just seems likely that many would also identify with HSP:

Highly Sensitive people are described as having "high sensory processing sensitivity" and therefore are more affected by the sensory details in their environment (i.e background noise, smells, clutter). Most of the time they are also more careful and thorough thinkers but are more easily disturbed by an imperfect environment.
Here's an article explaining this, which also directs you to a short test you can take.


On the side:
If you guys have any suggestions on how I can make my friends feel more socially at ease around me please give them to me. They're so on edge about being offensive even though I told them they don't have to be. I find myself weary of hurting THEM with my humor, not the other way around.
 

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Actually, you seem to describing me to a certain extent, at least in regards to worrying about offending people.

More immature INTJ's are usually both oblivious as well as apathetic when it comes to how they come off to other people. They may not be intentionally mean. They just simply don't care. However, I think INTJ's do have a certain ability to be self aware. Once they begin to develop their other functions, they see that their words and actions do have the potential to cause long term damage. If they reach this point, their desire to "improve" themselves kick in, and they begin to try to engage their environment, looking for signs that they might be annoying their friends. Their Ni goes into full gear, and they become much more concerned (i.e., paranoid) with how their friends view them.

I know have experienced this, myself. I had at least one friend that I pushed away because I was clingy, and I didn't want to do that again.
 

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Age 24 INTJ male here.

I do not like crowds either or very cluttered places. I prefer to spend time with my friends or girlfriend privately without and type of disturbance. I just feel that no one should ruin my day and time with them.

Say if we go to a amusement park, there are going to be crowds and lots of slow-walking families and annoying children walking in front of us. It ruins the mood for me because I really want it to be "me and friends/girlfriend" time. I don't want it to be "me and friends/girlfriend and random strangers time."

I just want to eliminate all possible factors that can make the day go wrong. In the end, I just want to increase the chances of the day going well. I want to talk privately with my friends or girlfriend without disturbance.

It's true. I know how blunt and honest I can be as an INTJ. We don't have good emotional awareness so we say it as is. We feel being honest and direct resolves issues and brings a message across with clarity and less chance of misinterpretation. We value it to be more practical. However, is blunt and runs the risk of hurting people's feelings. Sometimes we are not emotional aware that what we just said was offensive. We hold many last experiences with people calling us names because of INTJ mentality when we have no intention to harm. We are constantly try falsely accused of being a bad person. It's just that our INTJ mentality has poor emotional awareness and we are not emotionally adequate to people around us. We grow paranoid knowing how we are so we try to take every extra measure to not hurt others as we have been told many times how we make people feel from our past experience.

I guess they just have to improve and practice on being more emotional adequate? I don't know. I'm INTJ and I struggle with the same problem.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5
 

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I didn't test as highly sensitive, but there were some things that resonated with me.

I can't handle loud, harsh noises. I try to avoid fluorescent lighting because it annoys me. My space is too cluttered right now and it's affecting my productivity and efficiency. So, I'm working to simplify.

When I go out with friends I like to go places that aren't crowded or so loud we can't have a conversation. I'm a little older, so I am more self-aware and aware of the comfort and feelings of others. I was also raised in a small, southern place, so formality in manners and hospitality was drilled into me. I'm lucky I have that as autopilot, I guess. As a female, I feel like I'm supposed to be sympathetic when bad relationship things happen to my friends, and most of the time I saw it coming. I try to keep that to myself and buy the Ben and Jerry's and wine. *shrug*

Just be cool. If one of the INTJs does something that could be offensive, just try to whisper in their ear or something, especially if they don't read the reaction of the other person. My opinion is that it's a good sign they're aware that they can come off as abrasive, so they're just asking for help with social cues and appropriate behavior. Be a good role model. That makes you a good friend.
 

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I tested as HS and I do think you are on to something. I have questioned myself about this before except my question is addressing PTSD. My dad had it and I became his main person to release on at age 12. Many of the questions in the test were reactions I would probably not have if not exposed to PTSD.
I test INTJ pretty much every time and my cognitive function is definitely in hierarchy systems, however I am highly compassionate and empathetic to people and as an older adult I have learned to use that and ignore some of my INTJ tendencies to build a forte around myself and not be useful.

As far as helping your friends. I have no advice. I am pretty "main stream" now. All of the answers I answered yes to really totally bother me, some are reactions I have never been able to control. Like if you walk in a room and I have no idea you are there and you start talking....I will scream and physically jump to get away. If you are close to me and touch me and I don't know you have entered the room....I will deck you. Total reaction. PTSD in action on that.
I began to deal with things at about age 30. I used this type of stuff, personality tests in the beginning. I took up astrology and have studied it for 8 years now. I have found it very helpful and informative. I have used traditional protestant religion and that has been useful although I have moved away from that now and am more open to enlightenment or spirituality. So, saying all that to say the advice that orionelf gave was good and you should do that, encourage them...but if it does not get the results you are hoping you may have to realize they may have to make peace for themselves, their way.
Really great you noticed and are wanting to help. You are a really smart and good friend for them.
Good luck
 

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I have two INTJs as friends (one male, one female) and they both seem to have a strong aversion to loud or crowded places, (more so than I do and that's saying something). They also both seem anxious about how they're coming off to other people for example they'll notice when someone's judging them or they'll be overly cautious trying not to offend people.

I'm not sure what to think about this because they can easily pass as simply "INTJ traits", it just seems likely that many would also identify with HSP:

Highly Sensitive people are described as having "high sensory processing sensitivity" and therefore are more affected by the sensory details in their environment (i.e background noise, smells, clutter). Most of the time they are also more careful and thorough thinkers but are more easily disturbed by an imperfect environment.
Here's an article explaining this, which also directs you to a short test you can take.

On the side:
If you guys have any suggestions on how I can make my friends feel more socially at ease around me please give them to me. They're so on edge about being offensive even though I told them they don't have to be. I find myself weary of hurting THEM with my humor, not the other way around.
May I ask how old you and your friends are?

To be honest, the description of your friends is very, very vague and I don't think we can be of much help with the information provided.

And no, I cannot relate to this. At all.
I also find it unlikely that this applies to INTJs (whose Se is the inferior function) in general.

I hardly notice sublte smells or sounds and people often have to tell me before I actually notice them. I could give many examples for my sensoric obliviousness. I don't even want to notice it, it seems so ... insignificant?

Oh yeah, once, I even manged to sleep on an uncomfortable chair in a loud room with many people and a bad smell. I was tired and simply wanted everybody to know that I don't give a shit.


From my points of view, I love INFPs. They can be a bit demanding when they ask for advice (I'm not referring to you ^^) but otherwise I love their intuitive nature and how they care for other people :kitteh:

And I find it honestly hard to imagine that an INTJ actually gets hurt by INFP humor lol.
Maybe something which goes against personal values? That's where we are most vulnerable in and understand little humor.
 

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HSP has been brought up in another thread before, and at least out of the INTJs on this forum it seems we could relate to at least portions of the descriptions and indicators.

I don't like loud crowds either. If I do go it has to be with the right people and event dependant. People are stupid, sometimes they smell, they don't watch where they're going or clean up after themselves, and they're loud. Overloading on that with a crowd is like my personal hell.

My ex used to like going to concerts and festivals and stuff and she would stand next to the speaker and ignore me or she'd want to stand in the longest line at the faire and talk about personal things loudly. I guess thats what I get for dating an ESFP. It sounds pretty lame and needy but for me to not want to throw myself into the river at a loud crowded event I really just need someone to hand hold me through the whole process, have a solid plan, and not contribute to the din.
 

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I haven't really considered this in the past, and it honestly seems to be a new development in my life. (The online assessment said I could be HSP.)

I have found that even in situations that wouldn't be viewed as a crowd, I have to scribble my thoughts in a notebook or I will become over stimulated. If I don't look down at the page and focus entirely on my own thoughts, I can't focus my thoughts over what is going on all around me; even then I still hear other conversations and in a boisterous room it is too much. I sleep with sound-blocking ear muffs and sometimes take them around with me.

Paying attention to individual's moods would be learned in my case, I watch for all the physical changes in the body that show mood. I don't naturally know what people are feeling, I have just diverted my efforts into understanding; and now I understand. I have spent a lot of effort in changing how I come across to people, this mostly involves me not talking about myself as few individuals really care all that much about you and talking about yourself seems to repel in most cases. It is all about efficiency, readjusting and reevaluating to be the most efficient when dealing with other individuals, finding what works and what to avoid.

For sensory perceptions themselves, it seems hit or miss for smell; sometimes I notice subtle smells and tie them back to what they are (i.e. shampoo, food, etc) other times individuals can smell things that I cannot smell even if I try. (then again you can only be sensitive to what you are physically capable of sensing.) I see far more than I let on. I hear everything and it drives me crazy. Who knows.

This is an interesting topic, I am curious to see where it goes. Other than every single post is quite large.
 

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I have two INTJs as friends (one male, one female) and they both seem to have a strong aversion to loud or crowded places, (more so than I do and that's saying something). They also both seem anxious about how they're coming off to other people for example they'll notice when someone's judging them or they'll be overly cautious trying not to offend people.
That's a tough one for me I dislike crowded area's mostly because I'm used to listening in on everyone around me and its like sensory overload. I don't really care what people think of me I'm a decent guy but I'll be a sarcastic prig to you if you give me attitude or something. I usually dominate social environment's but I'm enneagram 8 so it may separate me from other INTJ's in that way

I'm not sure what to think about this because they can easily pass as simply "INTJ traits", it just seems likely that many would also identify with HSP:

Highly Sensitive people are described as having "high sensory processing sensitivity" and therefore are more affected by the sensory details in their environment (i.e background noise, smells, clutter). Most of the time they are also more careful and thorough thinkers but are more easily disturbed by an imperfect environment.
Here's an article explaining this, which also directs you to a short test you can take.
I would say that I am highly aware of everything going on in my environment I hear all conversations and chime in to multiple conversations if I weight in. I am aware of everything going on around me. In a dense social situation I'm trying to separate deconstruct mass amounts of data as I'm used to analyzing everything. Which is why I prefer smaller groups or I prefer to be drunk when in large groups Lol.

On the side:
If you guys have any suggestions on how I can make my friends feel more socially at ease around me please give them to me. They're so on edge about being offensive even though I told them they don't have to be. I find myself weary of hurting THEM with my humor, not the other way around.
I'm not sure I'm totally comfortable around people I know, I would say I'm probably the least likely person to get offended out of anyone I know. I would worry more about offending others because I'm not exactly sensitive to other peoples feelings.
 

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I did the test and only scored two of the things, but very INTJ-like, I thought several of the questions asked the same thing in a different way ...

So I'm not HSP but, as said, dislike crowds, and gravitate toward quiet areas with my back to the wall where I can see the exit. I dislike too much sensory input - hair in my face, sound, the dog barking endlessly etc.

I see things others don't. I've heard 'oh, I didn't see that' or 'Oh, I didn't think that' such a lot when being with and talking to friends.

I get sensory episodes where I twitch/vibrate/electrocute/buzz for two months or so. Not nice to live with, the electrocution is bloody painful. Suspect it's a nasty AI thing but the NHS don't seem overly anxious to Dx me, so I'm not bothering. Having whatever it is won't change just because they give it a name suddenly. But the twitching can drive me bonkers. A finger, or a toe - on and on and on and on .... aaaarrrrgggggggggghhhhh!

As we INTJ's also like the sensual, we should all be kept in a velvet-padded room with no windows and indirect lighting.
 

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I test as HSP. In my experience, it just takes a minute to be completely at ease with someone, generally it's not something that can be forced. But you can always just tell them that you're not easily offended, and that you mean no offense with your humor, that might ease them up a bit (and you can worry less about hurting them). And being INTJ they might appreciate the straight-shooter approach.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
May I ask how old you and your friends are?

To be honest, the description of your friends is very, very vague and I don't think we can be of much help with the information provided.

I also find it unlikely that this applies to INTJs (whose Se is the inferior function) in general.

And I find it honestly hard to imagine that an INTJ actually gets hurt by INFP humor lol.
The INTJs I've met have been a pleasure to be around so far, their authenticity is liberating :)

The girl is 17, the guy is 19, I realize that's still in the developmental stages (I figured their social concerns were partly because of that)
They'll both straight out ask to go to a quieter place in the breaks and they're both strong introverts. The girl complains about clutter, dirt and taste or texture of food. Socially, she doesn't like coming off as mean or rude, so she overcompensates and is hesitant to give her honest opinion, ask for things etc. The guy usually vents to me about odd looks people give him, or silent judgements he intuitively picks up. He's very withdrawn (holds about three friendships including me at the moment), but he's also very observant about other people. He also expresses a bit of overcompensation socially (at least with me), makes sure he doesn't offend me and expresses this repetitively even though neither of them have ever offended or hurt me.
They both had a phase in high school where they would try to integrate themselves socially and act "normal" which backfired for both of them and they both completely reject the image they had back then.
There's no doubt about them being INTJs, as I said the girl has the strong Ni/Se perfectionism going on and the guy has little coordination or awareness of his surroundings when he walks. You can see the Se in both of them.

I usually tease them about these things but kind of fail to tell them that I wouldn't make fun of these traits unless I've accepted them. I just usually hope I'm not touching on some kind of insecurity or something.
In general I try to think of ways to get them comfortable to express things without having to worry about saying something wrong.
They're probably the two friends I have that are most worried about offending other people, I can see the struggle in their faces. It's funny but also kind of disconcerting..
 

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I got 6 out of the questions there. Not HSP even though I usually get near the 100% mark on introversion.

I went to the zoo last month on the last day before the end of school hols with introverted 20 year old daughter (INTP) and introverted 14 year old son (possibly INTP). Son fell asleep as soon as we hit the car to leave and daughter has sworn off having children again while I just wandered around in a daze for the rest of the day.
 

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Not even going to bother with the test. I'm not even remotely HSP. Not at all.

I don't like crowds, but that's because I'm a misanthrope :p Chaotic situations can certainly set my teeth on edge. That's more to do with security concerns than feeling overwhelmed or overloaded though. I'm the type of person that can sleep or focus almost anywhere. I can tune out everything around me quite easily.

I'm also one of those people who manages to be both highly observant and completely oblivious at the same time. I'll see or be aware of things that others aren't, but I'll miss things that are right in front of me. As an example, one time I was meeting my (now ex-)husband at an airport. He had arrived a week or so ahead of me and we had agreed that we would meet at the hotel, rather than him coming out to the airport to collect me. I could tell you very specific details of what was happening at that arrival gate including the song that was playing, the flights that were listed on the arrivals screen, the clothes that the people next to me were wearing, etc. Yet, I managed to walk within 3 feet of my husband, who was holding a giant sign with my name on it, look right at him....and carry on by without even seeing him. Oops! :D
 

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I did not even come close to testing positive for HSP. I don't like crowds.. but more because I don't like dealing with stupidity, especially in abundance.
 

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I have two INTJs as friends (one male, one female) and they both seem to have a strong aversion to loud or crowded places, (more so than I do and that's saying something). They also both seem anxious about how they're coming off to other people for example they'll notice when someone's judging them or they'll be overly cautious trying not to offend people.

I'm not sure what to think about this because they can easily pass as simply "INTJ traits", it just seems likely that many would also identify with HSP:

Highly Sensitive people are described as having "high sensory processing sensitivity" and therefore are more affected by the sensory details in their environment (i.e background noise, smells, clutter). Most of the time they are also more careful and thorough thinkers but are more easily disturbed by an imperfect environment.
Here's an article explaining this, which also directs you to a short test you can take.


On the side:
If you guys have any suggestions on how I can make my friends feel more socially at ease around me please give them to me. They're so on edge about being offensive even though I told them they don't have to be. I find myself weary of hurting THEM with my humor, not the other way around.
To be honest, I really don't care too much if I offend people with what I say, but my reasoning is that I don't try to be rude--I actually do try to be polite whenever possible and pride myself in my consideration of people's feelings--so if someone is offended, I'll give them a shot and consider what they say, and if I messed up, then I'll own up; if not, then it's their issue. If I do my best and study my flaws, then I feel a certain "did my job" confidence, so at that point if I am not being a jerk and someone doesn't like me, then oh well.

Oh, I did try that test and was two points away from being considered a highly-sensitive person. I'd say that when I was younger and didn't have control over my life like I do as an adult and couldn't brace for life's action the same way, it did affect me more. Being in school was a bit overstimulating at times, but the exposure was great practice in dealing with a loud world; without it, I suspect that life would be more difficult today, so I guess a lot of it was for the best in the long run. Being able to prepare for or control the environment I'm in helps a great deal, so maybe if your friends had a little party/get together (of whatever kind, you don't need to do keg stands) at their place, so they are in a familiar environment and then perhaps they will open up. Oh, and topics they find interesting are almost perfect ways to get them talking, though it helps if you are genuinely interested. I'm convinced that most of this stuff (including dealing with sensitivity) can be learned and practiced, even if there is some genetic connection. Great post!
 

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No. I have seen people on youtube who are identifying with this shit and they seem like the most insufferable pussies.

Please count me out.
 
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I did not even come close to testing positive for HSP. I don't like crowds.. but more because I don't like dealing with stupidity, especially in abundance.
Stupidity is fine with me--in fact it can be delightful at times--so long as it doesn't inconvenience me. Ha, I came really close to testing positive for HSP at 13 points, though I suppose a love of art and music can constitute sensitivity.
 

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I got 26 on the test, I have come to identify as a HSP completely. As for your friends; it's hard to say - I prefer clear communication, no coddling.
 
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