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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've heard the natural partner of an INTJ is the ENTP or the ENFP, but I've heard that INTJs and ENFPs often pair better in relationships. What do you guys think of this?
 

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Prefer them for what, really?

I mean, for me, I feel fine adapting (for reasonable amounts of time) to either's company, but then again, IRL I'm always deliberately negotiating (in my head, on the fly, in real time) the best way to "handle" various kinds of people.

In fact, it's so natural that it's only in pretty rare edge cases that it becomes something deliberate to think about.

If it's, as I suspect, a question of a "romantic" partner, then there's too much at play. Some people cause you to enjoy trying to adapt to, which is probably a good thing, even if it doesn't always end well.

LTR? I don't know, there are too many real world things to deal with together that I couldn't say.

In theory? I don't know, maybe you can ping someone here who really knows Jung.
 

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I have gathered a picture that especially ENFP and INTJ are the perfect match made in heaven. The famous "opposites attract"-couple. Personally I have experienced this "cognitive xenophilia", but the same differences can also be recipe for catastrophe - and neither type is fond of conflict and drama. Relationship with ENTPs I find more even. Most likely due to similarities in functions. Although there is still much to debate about.

Personally I think INTJ-ENFP relationship is more passionate and dynamic while INTJ-ENTP is like best-bros-for-ever. Although both dynamics can be platonic or romantic.
 

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Too often you see the "manic pixie girlfriend" stereotype embodied in ENFP woman + INTJ man relationship. I don't like it. Some pairs like that can be perfectly healthy without fetishizing the ENFP's traits... however, typically, you don't see INTJ women gushing over ENFP men, I think. So I'm always vary of that pairing.

Me personally, I'd prefer ENTP over ENFP (in pure theory, depends on specific people ofc, I know ENTPs I wouldn't date ever and it's not because of their type). ENTP, being INTJ's shadow type makes the dynamic interesting enough, since we're both kinda the same but not really. ENFP seems just too different to make things work well in the long run. Like, I attract A TON of ESXX types - opposites attract, right? Yeah, it can be cool for a few months, even years but somewhere down the line you'll figure out you differ too much to grow old together etc (at least that's my experience anyway).
 

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I think INTJ/ENFP or INTJ/INFP would have better luck than INTJ/ENTP.....the Fi/Fe clash is a big deal. me and my ENTP ex didn't make it because of that lack of a common language to talk about emotions...both of us needed to feel understood and both were trying but it's just a totally different emotional language. he wanted more facial expressions and body language than I was able to do and he didn't seem to believe my words when I talked about how I felt.....I wanted him to be a little more aware of his own emotions so he could describe them to me in words. i couldnt extract any info about what *he* felt when all he gave me was his guesses about what other people were feeling.

ENTP Ti also kinda drove me up the wall. he wanted to play devil's advocate and debate literally anything including my own personal decisions that affect no one other than me (like what I should do at the gym). INTJ just wants to do their own thing especially when it doesn't affect anyone else. we butted heads a lot on that.
 

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if i were being asked to choose just on the type level, i'd be looking for the 'neither of the above' button. each one has areas where i seem to get along with them okay on a less personal level, but none of those areas are the ones where i'd probably be into a relationship. the phrase 'majoring in the minors' comes to my mind. it would be like thinking someone could make a good partner because you both like the same kind of ice cream.
 

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ENTP and ENFP often make good friends. I tend to like them.

But for a partner? Any Perceiver would be problematic. I like things on time, structured, and scheduled. Once a decision is made, I want that to be solid.

I see the value in the looser, more adaptable Perceiver approach. I just can't live like that. We would drive each other nuts.
 

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Delphic Seer
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ENFP all the way!







 
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Plague Doctor
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ENFP or ENTP? Hmm. I'd really rather not. lol

I mean, I can handle them for short bursts of time. And I admit that my best girlfriend is an ENFP. If I had to pick, I'd rather be around an ENFP than an ENTP just because I get the feeling around ENTPs that they can't take anything seriously at all.

But in actuality, I love my INTP partner and I get a lot out of my INFP friendships. INXPs are my favorite type for friends.
 

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From what little I've been able to observe of them, ENTPs and INTJs as a whole seem to kind of be like ENFPs and INFJs - they can get along pretty well, but seem to be better off as friends than lovers, with some exceptions obviously. One of the big complaints I've heard from an INTJ on ENTPs is that they play devil's advocate beyond the limits of reasonable, enjoyable discussion, and it gets on their last nerve. In a particular case I know of, an ENTP was also not respecting an INTJ's personal property, but that may have just been a one-off incident with that specific ENTP (I'm not sure).
 

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For what? friendship? relationship? marriage ?
For the later I think there is a fine line between what we THINK we want (INTJ would often say: independent/bubbly/smart companion, preferably other N's, right?) and what we really want once we live 24/24 with someone. ENFP & ENTP may be fine but have you considered SJs & SPs?
I've lived with my INTJ husband for 10+ years and as your typical Ti user, I spent too much time thinking about, well, us.



The fact is in REAL life, real shits happens, you need to pay the bills, take the kids to school, clean the toilets, write thank you cards to your plumber/concierge/mother in law, bring real money at home, do gardening, build your credit score etc ....
INTJs and both ENXP aren't that good at these stuff nor want to do them. When I first moved in with my husband, I had to drop off of law school because he was accepted at a prestigious MBA outside of our country and it was "the opportunity of a lifetime" - at least for him. Then I became literally his cleaning lady because he was very busy with his MBA. Then we could pay a cleaner and the kids came into our lives. Then we could pay a half-time nanny & I could work again (luckily) but I had to manage all the family schedule/dinner with the colleagues & bosses (because you need to invite the colleagues in your pristine house in order to "look" good in his world) & plan my own work around his work schedule.


Useless to say, as NP - I'm not very good at all those things and felt some kind of resentment. Which he couldn't understand because his friends wives (the SJs) were so happy to have this kind of life: the big house, an investment banker husband & the WASP schools for their kids. He couldn't understand why I wanted to work so badly (in the meantime I worked my ass off and build/sold n small business)
I always felt like NTJs are so ambitious and single focused on their own professional goals. Despise what they say about enjoying ENXPs company, we're just not efficient enough & too free spirit and carefree for them in their real life plans.
I asked my husband if he would be happier with an ISFJ but he said he wouldn't & was happy with me because I was funny, original and smart ... AND despite of my "shortcomings" in the domestic department. But are those really shortcomings? I'm very fine with being the dreamer & unpractical person I am, my ENFP ex was totally fine with that and I feel like the Te in INTJ doesn't always fit with ENPs Ne.



Also, I think as Ns, especially Ne users, ENPs are both prone to anxiety & overthinking, I'm not sure how it goes with INTJs who also really live in their heads. Sometimes it feels like we are both struggling with our own problems without being able to help each other.
Maybe a SP with Se and the easy going/ living in the instant mindset would be good for INTJs!


With all that being said, we are still married and very happy together, and yes very much in love, we try to be very honest and humble, saying sorry and being open to work on our problems. Which I think is the key for a happy marriage. But, no, I don't think ENPs are much better than the SJ, SPs or any other types in the long term. Even if Ni/Ne spark is always there.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
For what? friendship? relationship? marriage ?
For the later I think there is a fine line between what we THINK we want (INTJ would often say: independent/bubbly/smart companion, preferably other N's, right?) and what we really want once we live 24/24 with someone. ENFP & ENTP may be fine but have you considered SJs & SPs?
I've lived with my INTJ husband for 10+ years and as your typical Ti user, I spent too much time thinking about, well, us.



The fact is in REAL life, real shits happens, you need to pay the bills, take the kids to school, clean the toilets, write thank you cards to your plumber/concierge/mother in law, bring real money at home, do gardening, build your credit score etc ....
INTJs and both ENXP aren't that good at these stuff nor want to do them. When I first moved in with my husband, I had to drop off of law school because he was accepted at a prestigious MBA outside of our country and it was "the opportunity of a lifetime" - at least for him. Then I became literally his cleaning lady because he was very busy with his MBA. Then we could pay a cleaner and the kids came into our lives. Then we could pay a half-time nanny & I could work again (luckily) but I had to manage all the family schedule/dinner with the colleagues & bosses (because you need to invite the colleagues in your pristine house in order to "look" good in his world) & plan my own work around his work schedule.


Useless to say, as NP - I'm not very good at all those things and felt some kind of resentment. Which he couldn't understand because his friends wives (the SJs) were so happy to have this kind of life: the big house, an investment banker husband & the WASP schools for their kids. He couldn't understand why I wanted to work so badly (in the meantime I worked my ass off and build/sold n small business)
I always felt like NTJs are so ambitious and single focused on their own professional goals. Despise what they say about enjoying ENXPs company, we're just not efficient enough & too free spirit and carefree for them in their real life plans.
I asked my husband if he would be happier with an ISFJ but he said he wouldn't & was happy with me because I was funny, original and smart ... AND despite of my "shortcomings" in the domestic department. But are those really shortcomings? I'm very fine with being the dreamer & unpractical person I am, my ENFP ex was totally fine with that and I feel like the Te in INTJ doesn't always fit with ENPs Ne.



Also, I think as Ns, especially Ne users, ENPs are both prone to anxiety & overthinking, I'm not sure how it goes with INTJs who also really live in their heads. Sometimes it feels like we are both struggling with our own problems without being able to help each other.
Maybe a SP with Se and the easy going/ living in the instant mindset would be good for INTJs!


With all that being said, we are still married and very happy together, and yes very much in love, we try to be very honest and humble, saying sorry and being open to work on our problems. Which I think is the key for a happy marriage. But, no, I don't think ENPs are much better than the SJ, SPs or any other types in the long term. Even if Ni/Ne spark is always there.
That's a really insightful response. I think I might be focusing on this whole system a bit much and this helps. Thank you.

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For what? friendship? relationship? marriage ?
For the later I think there is a fine line between what we THINK we want (INTJ would often say: independent/bubbly/smart companion, preferably other N's, right?) and what we really want once we live 24/24 with someone. ENFP & ENTP may be fine but have you considered SJs & SPs?
I've lived with my INTJ husband for 10+ years and as your typical Ti user, I spent too much time thinking about, well, us.



The fact is in REAL life, real shits happens, you need to pay the bills, take the kids to school, clean the toilets, write thank you cards to your plumber/concierge/mother in law, bring real money at home, do gardening, build your credit score etc ....
INTJs and both ENXP aren't that good at these stuff nor want to do them. When I first moved in with my husband, I had to drop off of law school because he was accepted at a prestigious MBA outside of our country and it was "the opportunity of a lifetime" - at least for him. Then I became literally his cleaning lady because he was very busy with his MBA. Then we could pay a cleaner and the kids came into our lives. Then we could pay a half-time nanny & I could work again (luckily) but I had to manage all the family schedule/dinner with the colleagues & bosses (because you need to invite the colleagues in your pristine house in order to "look" good in his world) & plan my own work around his work schedule.


Useless to say, as NP - I'm not very good at all those things and felt some kind of resentment. Which he couldn't understand because his friends wives (the SJs) were so happy to have this kind of life: the big house, an investment banker husband & the WASP schools for their kids. He couldn't understand why I wanted to work so badly (in the meantime I worked my ass off and build/sold n small business)
I always felt like NTJs are so ambitious and single focused on their own professional goals. Despise what they say about enjoying ENXPs company, we're just not efficient enough & too free spirit and carefree for them in their real life plans.
I asked my husband if he would be happier with an ISFJ but he said he wouldn't & was happy with me because I was funny, original and smart ... AND despite of my "shortcomings" in the domestic department. But are those really shortcomings? I'm very fine with being the dreamer & unpractical person I am, my ENFP ex was totally fine with that and I feel like the Te in INTJ doesn't always fit with ENPs Ne.



Also, I think as Ns, especially Ne users, ENPs are both prone to anxiety & overthinking, I'm not sure how it goes with INTJs who also really live in their heads. Sometimes it feels like we are both struggling with our own problems without being able to help each other.
Maybe a SP with Se and the easy going/ living in the instant mindset would be good for INTJs!


With all that being said, we are still married and very happy together, and yes very much in love, we try to be very honest and humble, saying sorry and being open to work on our problems. Which I think is the key for a happy marriage. But, no, I don't think ENPs are much better than the SJ, SPs or any other types in the long term. Even if Ni/Ne spark is always there.
If a spouse were to provide cleaning &co mostly, why not hire a cleaning lady/personal assistant instead? It'd be cheaper and less of a headache than dealing with xSFJ of some kind.
 

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For a friendship: ENTPs are better. You can talk just about anything with them... Oh, and they have great sense of humour! For relationships: neither. I've never met an ENTP woman, and the ENFPs that I've met... well... I've felt embarrassed to be around them in public. When I see an ENFP, usually I think of 2 things: "Are you ok?" (concerned) and "What's wrong with you?" (concerned and disturbed). They do inappropriate and embarrassing things at the worst times. They're ok to talk to, they're smart and mean well, but as far as relationships go: NO WAY! INFJs and ENFJs are waaaaay better! I can actually feel proud with them. Furthermore, they can actually contribute something useful to our couple and they have real personal ambitions I can help with. Together we can achieve things and they can cover my weaknesses and I can cover theirs. ENFPs... well, not so much... Usually, their ideas are... not very useful. I can see what I have to offer to an ENFP (discipline, structure, focus and the most important thing: willpower), but I honestly don't see what they can do for me. I think that in a couple both people would need to contribute to one another's goals and development.
 

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For what? friendship? relationship? marriage ?
For the later I think there is a fine line between what we THINK we want (INTJ would often say: independent/bubbly/smart companion, preferably other N's, right?) and what we really want once we live 24/24 with someone. ENFP & ENTP may be fine but have you considered SJs & SPs?
I've lived with my INTJ husband for 10+ years and as your typical Ti user, I spent too much time thinking about, well, us.



The fact is in REAL life, real shits happens, you need to pay the bills, take the kids to school, clean the toilets, write thank you cards to your plumber/concierge/mother in law, bring real money at home, do gardening, build your credit score etc ....
INTJs and both ENXP aren't that good at these stuff nor want to do them. When I first moved in with my husband, I had to drop off of law school because he was accepted at a prestigious MBA outside of our country and it was "the opportunity of a lifetime" - at least for him. Then I became literally his cleaning lady because he was very busy with his MBA. Then we could pay a cleaner and the kids came into our lives. Then we could pay a half-time nanny & I could work again (luckily) but I had to manage all the family schedule/dinner with the colleagues & bosses (because you need to invite the colleagues in your pristine house in order to "look" good in his world) & plan my own work around his work schedule.


Useless to say, as NP - I'm not very good at all those things and felt some kind of resentment. Which he couldn't understand because his friends wives (the SJs) were so happy to have this kind of life: the big house, an investment banker husband & the WASP schools for their kids. He couldn't understand why I wanted to work so badly (in the meantime I worked my ass off and build/sold n small business)
I always felt like NTJs are so ambitious and single focused on their own professional goals. Despise what they say about enjoying ENXPs company, we're just not efficient enough & too free spirit and carefree for them in their real life plans.
I asked my husband if he would be happier with an ISFJ but he said he wouldn't & was happy with me because I was funny, original and smart ... AND despite of my "shortcomings" in the domestic department. But are those really shortcomings? I'm very fine with being the dreamer & unpractical person I am, my ENFP ex was totally fine with that and I feel like the Te in INTJ doesn't always fit with ENPs Ne.



Also, I think as Ns, especially Ne users, ENPs are both prone to anxiety & overthinking, I'm not sure how it goes with INTJs who also really live in their heads. Sometimes it feels like we are both struggling with our own problems without being able to help each other.
Maybe a SP with Se and the easy going/ living in the instant mindset would be good for INTJs!


With all that being said, we are still married and very happy together, and yes very much in love, we try to be very honest and humble, saying sorry and being open to work on our problems. Which I think is the key for a happy marriage. But, no, I don't think ENPs are much better than the SJ, SPs or any other types in the long term. Even if Ni/Ne spark is always there.
I agree with your post 100%.
First of all, it depends on what kind of relationship we're talking about.
Secondly, a mind mate is not the same as a husband or boyfriend. A husband isn't the same as a boyfriend. A husband who relates well to a wife isn't automatically a good father to their children (for those who want children). Etc

As for ENFP vs ENTP, I wouldn't want either as a romantic partner.
I don't want anything to do with most ENFPs and wouldn't even want to be friends with them because they take way too many liberties and try to turn me into their sidekick without ever adapting to me in return.
I like some ENTPs as friends, but... If nothing happens in real time with an XSTP its my fault because I'm too slow. If nothing happens in real time with an XNTP its because they are too slow. I can play a waiting game with one or two select XNTPs at a time, but if I only had XNTP friends, my path would be strewn with casualties knocked out by what little Se-Fi I have. ENTPs do make the best low-maintenace associates in situations where one is surrounded by boring, stressful, micromanaging and altogether hysterical people, though. INTPs can be very loyal and be the best platonic friends if they can get used to being friends at all.

The best boyfriend I've ever had was an ESTP. He'd be a rubbish husband but a great father, but that's no use to me because I'd make a great "father" myself.
And while tertiary Fe (in both ESTP and ENTPs) is the cutest thing in the world it doesn't actually help when you can't even tell whether you're at cross purposes or just killing each other with cuteness in any given emotional situation. That can only work if everyone sticks to their own F and doesn't expect the other one to be be an INFJ/ ESFP.
Se-Fi and Ni-Se get each other really easily, though.

My best and only husband is ISTJ, but he's such a natural born husband that he wouldn't be the most exciting boyfriend for someone who is in no hurry to get married.
It helps to have Te-Fi in common and having a similar lifestyle and lots of interests in common makes it possible to have a long term relationship. Si-Ne and Ni-Se don't read each other well at all, though. So it's necessary to discuss things at greater length.
He'd be a good "mother", but I can't be bothered to feed the whole lot of them and breeding is optional for me anyway.


If I was gay, I might prefer an XSFJ wife (yes, I'm sexist like that, give me T men and F women, just don't expect me to conform to those roles).
I could see that working for some INTJ males and XSFJ females if they follow traditional gender roles.

Lol, I'm rambling. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it all depends on what you're looking for, where you're at in your life etc. You can't expect one person to provide everything and to be your 'ideal' match.

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