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Discussion Starter #1
I've heard a few other types say that they've known ISFJs that do this, and I definitely know that the Fe in me gives me a desire to do this, even if I don't always do it.


Basically, whenever someone gives their opinion about something, and clearly thinks that another person is wrong, in my mind I always have a desire to present where the "other side" is coming from.

It's not really playing devil's advocate in the way that INTPs sometimes do. I'm not doing it because I want the person to strengthen their own argument by analyzing the opposing side.

It's all interpersonal. I like any person to try to understand where another person is coming from. It's all for the sake of harmony. It just bothers me so much when someone dismisses someone else's opinion, even if they've heard it a million times. Because I want them to understand that the other person may have different experiences and their own personal reasons for thinking something.

I do this even if the person I'm talking to and I both believe the opposing view is completely wrong and doesn't make sense.


I think it's because I've always felt that understanding people is the best way way to understand how to change their minds. Not everyone uses logic in the same way, so a lot of times I feel like presenting the same logical arguments about something is beating a dead horse.


So I always feel like I'm caught in the middle because of this. I value harmony so much. It bothers me when two people are disagreeing and not listening to each other.


It bothers me so much that even if there's no opposing viewpoint present, I'll still want to give it. It's because I want the other person to think about it the next time the topic comes up, even if I'm not there.


Now, like I said, I won't always speak up in every one of these situations...sometimes I'll hold my tongue because I don't think it'll do any good. But I'll always want to say something.


I've heard a few other types say they've known ISFJs that do this and it gets on their nerves. They say they don't care what people who aren't around them think at that particular moment...they just care about the topic itself.



So can other ISFJs relate to this? And have other types experienced ISFJs doing this? Or is it just my own experience?
 

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Yes. But I've always chalked this down to Ti behaviour motivated by Fe. Other times it's just pure Ti for Ti sake. I don't think all ISFJs do it though.

In a way, it's kind of has an idealistic motivation behind it. The idea that understanding the other side will allow for more empathy and harmony within one self and the other person.

Some people don't like this attitude though, since it comes across as if you're letting them off the hook by examining their behaviour. Sort of like this situation

"That guy murdered someone!"
"True, but he also had XYZ childhood that might have been the reason that this outcome occur"
"What? Are you trying to defend him?"
"Wait? What. No! I was just explaining how things might have led to this outcome."
Haha. Not the best example but it hopefully gets the message across. I think some ISFJs probably prefer to defend their own positions instead of worrying about alternative positions.
 

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I've been accused of defending people, while merely trying to understand them, before. Not quite the same, but I think it's motivated by a sort of similar feeling - I agree with KeroKai that it feels connected to Ti, also -, unless I think the person accusing them is very wrong, or course, and I'm trying to encourage them to see a more balanced point.
 

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I was smiling while reading your post because this is something I do and never really stopped to think about. Even when I'm not in an argument, I'm always trying to think about the current situation in terms of other people's points of view. I always think about how the other person or people must be feeling and what they'd think of the situation, and how I can properly tailor my actions to account for other people's points of view. When I'm around people who can't really consider other's feelings and emotions in this way, it actually frustrates me a little bit.

I think this is also why, as ISFJs, we are a little self-conscious about what others think of us. We're trying to see how others view us because we're looking at life from their perspective. I know that during social interaction, I'm always thinking about how others will view me and what they must be thinking and feeling about me.
 

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I think this is related to Fe. I've been known to do what KeroKai does, which is trying to present a solution as to why the person is behaving in a certain way. I'm not defending them, but just trying to understand them more.
 

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I've definitely felt bothered by some arguments that were being made without the others present. It doesn't feel right to have the other voices left out. Ah, one sided political ads! They just seem very mean and dirty if they attack...it lacks credibility too.

Once I learned about other perspectives, I cared more about the differing opinions and arguments. I didn't really learn too much about this until I was in my late teens. I feel very similarly about gossip and people's feelings and claims about other people. I try to stay objective, but it's motivated by feelings in a way. I don't usually gossip because of this too. It bothers me to make claims or say negatives that obviously travel like wildfire.
 

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In my experience, yes!

Entps present opposing arguments because of the argument itself. To me it seems as isfj´s present opposing arguments because they see it as their responsibility to educate others.
 
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I do this too, although I think it more than I say it. I don't use either Fe or Ti and usually present other points of view to Ti's I know. Perhaps its more feeling attitude in general.

I guess it's easier for a feeler to understand other people's actions from different perspectives because mostly people's actions aren't logical.
 

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Basically, whenever someone gives their opinion about something, and clearly thinks that another person is wrong, in my mind I always have a desire to present where the "other side" is coming from.

It's all interpersonal. I like any person to try to understand where another person is coming from. It's all for the sake of harmony. It just bothers me so much when someone dismisses someone else's opinion, even if they've heard it a million times. Because I want them to understand that the other person may have different experiences and their own personal reasons for thinking something.
This is me in most cases. Sometimes if I know my opinion is wrong about the other person's perspective, I won't present it (even if it would help create harmony). But I don't think that much about opposing opinions most of the time.

Harsh criticism of others makes me cringe (unless I've decided that the person had bad intentions--I don't have a problem with criticizing them for bad intentions--but that's a Type 1 Enneagram gut fix issue mostly though).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Some people don't like this attitude though, since it comes across as if you're letting them off the hook by examining their behaviour. Sort of like this situation



Haha. Not the best example but it hopefully gets the message across. I think some ISFJs probably prefer to defend their own positions instead of worrying about alternative positions.
I've been accused of defending people, while merely trying to understand them, before. Not quite the same, but I think it's motivated by a sort of similar feeling - I agree with KeroKai that it feels connected to Ti, also -, unless I think the person accusing them is very wrong, or course, and I'm trying to encourage them to see a more balanced point.
Yeah, I think what helps is saying that you're not excusing anyone's behavior, you're just trying to look at the reasoning of where it comes from. You're just showing empathy and understanding someone's perspective and looking at another side to the story. But I always emphasize that I'm not excusing anyone's behavior...I'm just trying to understand them so that improvements can be made.





I do it, we share the Fe + Ti. You probably do it for practical reasons, ENTPs do it because it's counter-intuitive not to.
In my experience, yes!

Entps present opposing arguments because of the argument itself. To me it seems as isfj´s present opposing arguments because they see it as their responsibility to educate others.
I do this too, although I think it more than I say it. I don't use either Fe or Ti and usually present other points of view to Ti's I know. Perhaps its more feeling attitude in general.

I guess it's easier for a feeler to understand other people's actions from different perspectives because mostly people's actions aren't logical.

Yeah, I think that's true. It seems like NTPs do it just to test out different theories in their mind, because of Ti and Ne. It seems like it's just their way of analyzing different perspectives, and to kind of keep details free and unrestrained.
 

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Yeah, I think that's true. It seems like NTPs do it just to test out different theories in their mind, because of Ti and Ne. It seems like it's just their way of analyzing different perspectives, and to kind of keep details free and unrestrained.
This, YES!:happy:
 
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Yeah I get that. I find myself either agreeing, or talking about the opposition. It does have to depend with whom I am speaking with sometimes I believe. Or what the tone of who I am talking to is. Its weird.. I do try to be open minded though, and I think its that I dont like people degrading others opinions, and do not like my opinions being degraded either
 
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Thank you thank you thank you for this thread.

I recently had a situation where I brought up the other side and tried to see it from their side, but was criticized because the action was "obviously not an accident"... when that's not what I was even opposing.

It boggled me because I usually tend to shy away from conflict, but for that particular situation, there was something in me that wouldn't just tow the line discreetly like most other times. It never occurred to me that it would be related to my personality. (D'oh!)

I also see a disparity within my own behavior, though, where if I am emotionally or personally involved in a situation, I will opt to quickly place judgment on the offender. Although I will feel some pangs of "maybe I should try and understand him/her", many times my own stubbornness or other concerns will overwhelm those pangs. As much as I want harmony and understanding, I'm not willing to sacrifice my physical or emotional well-being for it in unreciprocated relationships.
 

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What a fantastic thread/idea!

I've never seen this addressed anywhere, and this completely applies to me. I ALWAYS find myself "arguing" with other people because I hate one-sided presentations of any sort. Two sides to every coin, you know?

In the interest of fairness (a concept I'm almost annoyingly attached to) I try to present the motives or reasoning for the other side, regardless of whether it's what I personally support. I've never considered why I do this, but it's something I consistently do. And usually to the annoyance of my girlfriend :laughing:
 
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