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Link these.
I’m sorry, I don’t know what you mean by “statements and guides, but no studies”. To me it seems that the studies were published in psychology journals and linked appropriately. You can download those from Science Direct yourself.

I find your tone unnecessarily aggressive. I never said men or women should do anything. I simply added a perspective on what people find attractive.
 

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Since you didn't respond about whether or not they're embedded in the article, I'll still break these down. I added numbers at the end for reference.

#1 - Dark triad personalities are good at making themselves appear more attractive through adornment. This doesn't mean that people are drawn to dark triad traits. It's that they're more attracted to...get this...more attractive people.

#2 - It's a study with a sample size of 73 freshmen...at first sight. This likely correlates to the findings of the first study, that people with dark triad traits put more effort into their appearance.

#3 - Is a breakdown of humor styles, relative to specific dark triad traits. Not sure how this relates to people being attracted to dark triad traits.
 

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For that quiz, I also got visionary and creative (equal percentage) and then a slightly lower percentage for intellectual. When answering the questions for "what I'm attracted to", I got royal as the highest percentage, followed by visionary and intellectual.
How do you feel about the royal archetype? I'm presuming from your list you were somewhat aware of it beforehand... For me I think it has been a guilty pleasure sort of thing mostly. I do tend to find that type the most immediately attractive but I don't necessarily like feeling that way... you know? There is a lot about it I find annoying. But also that annoyance can be a good thing, provokes some type of feeling lol
 
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Where, as in what were the covering words? Maybe the links aren't showing up for me if they were included in the article.

For the record, I'm not riled up. You should see me riled up.
Are you using dark mode

Relationship, popular, succesful
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Since you didn't respond about whether or not they're embedded in the article
Yes I did. I said they were inline links. That means embedded in the article. Not sure what you see in your browser, but here are the sentences within the article where the links are embedded (the links copied over as well it seems!):

#1 "Nicholas Holtzman and Michael Strube of Washington University in St. Louis were interested in looking at the relationship between physical attractiveness and people’s tendencies towards narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism."

#2 "The findings reinforce previous research showing that narcissists are more popular than others, literally at first sight."

#3 "Combining physical attractiveness with confidence and humor is even more effective, and it appears that people with exploitive personalities are more successful at this as well."

EDIT: appreciate the breakdown, btw
 

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Are you using dark mode

Relationship, popular, succesful
I'm looking at the archetypes article right this second. Using the Find function, there are no incidents of 'Relationship', three incidents of 'popular' where none are links and no incidents of successful. Are you looking at a different article?
 

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Yes I did. I said they were inline links. That means embedded in the article. Not sure what you see in your browser, but here are the sentences within the article where the links are embedded (the links copied over as well it seems!):

#1 "Nicholas Holtzman and Michael Strube of Washington University in St. Louis were interested in looking at the relationship between physical attractiveness and people’s tendencies towards narcissism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism."

#2 "The findings reinforce previous research showing that narcissists are more popular than others, literally at first sight."

#3 "Combining physical attractiveness with confidence and humor is even more effective, and it appears that people with exploitive personalities are more successful at this as well."

EDIT: appreciate the breakdown, btw
None of that is present in my version of the Archetypes article. Are you discussing a different page or a different article? I'm discussing the linked article in the opening post. It's titled:

The Ultimate List of Archetypes (Over 325)
 

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I'm looking at the archetypes article right this second. Using the Find function, there are no incidents of 'Relationship', three incidents of 'popular' where none are links and no incidents of successful. Are you looking at a different article?
The article trueself linked to you
 
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Discussion Starter #52
How do you feel about the royal archetype? I'm presuming from your list you were somewhat aware of it beforehand... For me I think it has been a guilty pleasure sort of thing mostly. I do tend to find that type the most immediately attractive but I don't necessarily like feeling that way... you know? There is a lot about it I find annoying. But also that annoyance can be a good thing, provokes some type of feeling lol
Your list was the most out there, haha.

Same. I feel it isn't relationship material, even if attraction happens. Exploring power dynamics can provide an interesting/exciting challenge, though, as long as it can be approached with some level of playfulness.

None of that is present in my version of the Archetypes article. Are you discussing a different page or a different article? I'm discussing the linked article in the opening post. It's titled:

The Ultimate List of Archetypes (Over 325)
I misunderstood which article you wanted information about! The links I posted were in reference to the article Psychology Uncovers Sex Appeal of Dark Personalities - Scientific American that Trueself posted. Whoops.

The first article is a convenient list of possible archetypes drawn from different books/sources that the author references within the article. There are no "studies" about it whatsoever, you are correct.
 

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The article trueself linked to you
Your list was the most out there, haha.

Same. I feel it isn't relationship material, even if attraction happens. Exploring power dynamics can provide an interesting/exciting challenge, though, as long as it can be approached with some level of playfulness.



I misunderstood which article you wanted information about! The links I posted were in reference to the article Psychology Uncovers Sex Appeal of Dark Personalities - Scientific American that Trueself posted. Whoops.

The first article is a convenient list of possible archetypes drawn from different books/sources that the author references within the article. There are no "studies" about it whatsoever, you are correct.
Thanks, you two! I now understand how the misunderstanding occurred. Trueself linked an article which I responded to with a reference to hybristophilia. Because I had already responded to it and negated it, I automatically reverted to the opening post article whenever he mentioned 'article'.

So, my humblest apologies to @Trueself for calling what he stated 'bullshit'. It wasn't bullshit relative to the information provided in his link, even though the studies themselves didn't really back up his perspective of people being attracted to dark triad traits beyond hybristophilia. If anything, two of the studies backed up my perspective that people are drawn to physical attractiveness, at least at first meet and greet.
 

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Which ones? How does that influence your attraction to them? Why do you think you go for one archetype over another, if you do?

Here is a list of potential archetypes to get started:

Archetypes List: The Ultimate List of Over 325 Archetypes (scottjeffrey.com)
So I felt like approaching this again--and I also wanted to say thanks for the recommendation for Wandavision (I think it was you)--I just watched the most recent episode and it's a pretty interesting show. It's starting to make me wonder about archetypes in Wanda's mind, like if that's how the town operates, in some ways. It reminds me a bit of that psychological concept (especially in this last episode).

But I guess...I'll remember significant attractions and think about what archetype they might have reminded me of. I did have some sort of relationship with all of them, but was only in a relationship with the last I describe here.

First major attraction was...I guess he does remind me of Loki a tiny bit, because he became pretty tricky, especially when he started suffering from substance abuse problems. He was a musician though--I probably would have associated him more with the starving artist or the starving philosopher (maybe the "scholar"? Something about him reminds me a lot of Orpheus--like I would associate him with that archetype. I guess he'd probably be typed an intellectual (if I remember right) in the other quiz thing.

Second would have probably been more like Pan or Dionysis. At least that is who I would associate him with. He was more sensual and also even similar to the animalistic sides of Pan. But generally peaceful and more interested in enjoying the world and exploring than anything else. Maybe sort of mystic at times. He was intelligent but he didn't care to focus on studies. But he was actually pretty brilliant as much as I feel he ended up squandering it. Hopefully he came back--both of these people went through difficult times. I don't even know if this one is still alive.

Ex
My long term ex and ex long-term partner was also very into nature, and similarly sort of reminded me of the second--of Pan or maybe even Apollo because he also (when I first met him) was interested in the humanities, but also of civility and etiquette. Very much about the nature, and we spent a lot of our time together camping, which I like to do. So idk. He def. was an athlete so that would have been the type from that quiz source. But also stingy and controlling, and complaining a lot. But at least when I first met him I thought he was more of a poet, I think. But really his passion was just nature and athletics.

I'll have to think about it more. I think I resist putting people into categories or trying to narrow down my own feelings, but it's helpful to reflect on this type of thing.
 

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I'll have to think about it more. I think I resist putting people into categories or trying to narrow down my own feelings, but it's helpful to reflect on this type of thing.
eternal child.


etc:



 

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eternal child.


etc:



The first two that I described were when they were in college (and I was in high school), so they were still sort of in that period of childhood, but I can definitely see the Dionysis, peter-pan kind of archetype with the second one.

The first one, I guess also--he just got addicted to heroin though and so there were some personality changes as his addiction progressed. But he was definitely dependent on them, and I can see how dependency seems like a quality a child would have. He was able to move on from that. He was kind of an asshole though--sort of narcissistic (not like the mental disorder, but personality wise), which I also associate with being child like, I guess.

I'm not sure what happened to the second one though. He was like full on heading into insanity with psychoactive use. His father was a physicist and he came from the East Coast, but he had full on adopted a party lifestyle, dropped out of college which he described as "so easy he didn't even have to read the books" (and it is true that there was/is (?) a disparity between California education and East Coast education, I think, but he was also smart) and just marched off into complete insanity...like just destroying himself and completely gone from this reality. It really does remind me of the myths around the Minyades and the madness associated with Dionysis.

I guess with both these people I did end up having maternal impulses because both of them had such problems with substance abuse at some point that the only relationship I would have even had, were I to have had any, would have been just trying to look out for their best interest or really treat them like children who couldn't make the right decisions for themselves. I thought about it--about how they really needed (especially the first one--as he did get a girlfriend but she was just feeding him ketamine) needed someone (I thought, like myself) to care for their well being and stuff. But of course people have to go their own way and we were never that close of friends that I would have much of a say. So I guess I can relate that to mothering/child aspect. I did constantly judge the first one's gf because she was basically the one who introduced him to opiates (they met when she became the singer in his band and started acting like some celebrity musician couple).

But the third one--the athlete--I mean, he was kind of an emotional man-baby, but I didn't think I was attracted to him FOR that reason. He was also 14 years older than me.

I think when you are younger (like under 25) you aren't really sure what maturity is since you're not yet fully physically mature, yourself. He may have seemed more mature since he was over 35, but really he was pretty immature. This is why I wouldn't ever date anyone under 25 (now that I am older than that), because I don't think they are fully mature or they really recognize maturity well, and I wouldn't want them to make the same mistake I did.

But I guess I do often want to take some kind of vacation--like escape from reality, and I think that might be part of the peter-pan thing at least, and maybe the Puer Aeternus. To be able to get away from responsibilities for just a while, to explore, to forget about what is expected (except for the very important, of course). So I can see that impulse a little and how I might be attracted to that.

I think the focus on nature could relate to that too--because nature is sort of the pure, uncorrupted by society, expression. So the sort of wanting to escape the confines of society and return to the origin of everything seems kind of puer? But I am not sure that is all that is going on there. I think nature has to also have some type of archetype that isn't just the eternal child, though it is interesting in that the concept of an eternal child is sort of thwarting nature, as it is everything's nature to grow up. I'm just not sure about embracing all of civilization or society--and how much of that is required to be a mature adult.

I don't find it that attractive when people refuse to grow up and I don't want to take care of extra children, but I do find it attractive to be able to leave civilization behind sometimes. And I guess my third example did do that a lot--he wasn't even from this country so he already didn't fit in to what was expected, as a foreigner, and then also the focus on going out into the back country--going backpacking and on ski trips. But yeah, I can also see that he had some child-like qualities.

I wonder if there are other archetypes as well though. Because I know some people who really remind me of children tend to repulse me a bit--like people who completely reject their responsibilities--when they are too narcissistic and egocentric and they have responsibilities but don't care about the harm they do to others.

The Eternal Child fits the second one pretty well though--he even was against having relationships, because he couldn't even handle the idea of that kind of restriction (of monogamy). He really did just want to run away from any and all restrictions, and he also became increasingly insane and detached from reality. I sometimes wonder if he ever made his way back again or if his parents ever found him or what. It's really kind of sad.

But it's kind of weird too--people sometimes think of me as more child-like and naive, and I tend to play a role of joking around and being sort of naive, but in those examples--especially the first two, I took more of a mothering attitude towards the end, and I did feel like what they needed was someone like that.
 

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I wonder if there are other archetypes as well though. Because I know some people who really remind me of children tend to repulse me a bit--like people who completely reject their responsibilities--when they are too narcissistic and egocentric and they have responsibilities but don't care about the harm they do to others.
that last link offers a variety of children archetypes. . . frankly, tho, in terms of mbti, we could look at it as their third, tertiary function taking the lead - for the good and bad of it. People are often more wary of their inferior function because it's potential grip often has a negative outcome, thus many run from it, but inevitably leads to catharsis, growth - it's the last ditch reprieve for what we've been neglecting, or the loud thump of hitting rock bottom, as they say. But the third function does seem to correlate, my wants, desires, hunger, a greater need for it to be stimulated, attended to; needy child, bored teenager.

so, maybe it's unsurprising then that my relationship patterns fall into those that can keep up with Si's demands but with other traits I can riff or build off of.

if we look at enfp, then Te makes sense tha you're seeking troubled people to fix them or at least supplement them with your internal sense of values.. the 'good' path. always need some guinea pigs to further testing it's applicability.

if we look at infp, then we've got another Si that might be looking to be stimulated and seeking out troublemakers because it's a break in the structured routine that provides intel with new situations to react to or new experiences to be gained through these unknown variables

-- aiming for those with immature functions are certainly a way to go about it. . . I doubt there is much of a secure feeling aiming for fully matured individuals as the question becomes what can you offer them, and in turn, what they can actually give you aside from security, safety and predictability. to which, in turn, we may feel more the children in need of fixing.

so, maybe it's a power dynamic where we set ourselves up to be the ones in control of the relationship with some fears of intimacy or commitment, and more comfortable with 'broken' people as then we feel less broken in contrast, providing us with greater fulfillment because either we are evenly matched or capable of offering more to the relationship. our own stability, even if we question the existence or practicality of...
 

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Discussion Starter #58
So I felt like approaching this again--and I also wanted to say thanks for the recommendation for Wandavision (I think it was you)--I just watched the most recent episode and it's a pretty interesting show. It's starting to make me wonder about archetypes in Wanda's mind, like if that's how the town operates, in some ways. It reminds me a bit of that psychological concept (especially in this last episode).

But I guess...I'll remember significant attractions and think about what archetype they might have reminded me of. I did have some sort of relationship with all of them, but was only in a relationship with the last I describe here.
I didn't anticipate reflecting on specific people this way. I would be severely limited by my knowledge of different representative figures to compare with my sorely lacking education in literature... but I'll give it a try, too. Maybe @Rift can help, haha.

One theme that stands out from everything you said is this lack of refinement - which would also fit with the Wolverine "wild man" crush from the other thread.

Funny, men who were attracted to me when I was younger often seemed to be looking for a mother figure (archetype?), perhaps because I was responsible, open and emotionally stable, and for some more immature people that is a good mother replacement, or something. I'd wonder what those fellas were looking for in you, too. If you had a stability like that? I'm getting this sort of yin-yang chaos and order thing, here. Maybe they were "lost boys", Wendy. ;)

For relationships that are notable:

My first attraction would probably be best characterized as an "outlaw" or "explorer" archetype, with shadowy characteristics. If he wasn't so troubled he'd probably make a good "statesman" of sorts, too. He was young and angry, hell-bent on disrupting the status quo. He was also secretive and impossible to pin down, always on the move with a wide circle of acquaintances, and a deep compassion for outcasts and underdogs. And of course, a bit of a trickster. I was attracted to how difficult it was to figure him figure out, the unpredictability and restless searching for something he couldn't find. There was a thirst for adventure and sensuality that was really attractive, some of that "pan" quality - hedonistic, to be sure. This was probably the most intense attraction, being teenagers. And that the relationship doomed from the beginning.

Second attraction would have fit the "royal" archetype from that quiz. Completely different from the first guy, except the thread of having command over a crowd and being hard to pin down. He was a "mad hatter", a "gourmand", a theatrical personality and extremely outgoing. At the time I met him, I was just starting to come out of isolation, and so someone that could light up a room and take me on a whirlwind ride and make me feel like I was wanted and belonged was really attractive.

Third attraction was to an "intellectual", a "renaissance man", "alchemist", "poet", and "sage" type. The relationship characterized by shared dreams, love of knowledge, and creativity, and going on 10 years.

I suppose a common thread is some attraction to mystery and adventure, whether internal or external, that these archetypes afford.
 

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I suppose a common thread is some attraction to mystery and adventure, whether internal or external, that these archetypes afford.
the wild man, wolverine like character, is largely a bachelor. . . may have had many loves but never a 'mature' love or perhaps had one love early in life and a lot of rebounds. rough around the edges and prone to some unhealthy or stubborn ways. also a contradiction to himself, impulsive or flighty but has patience and direct but exhibits divergent thinking skills. externally cynical (rather than sheer pessimism), internally optimistic. pushes boundaries. when he does get depressed, he clinging to things he values, often reflects on past loves.. and there's likely a fair bit of romanticism in that, the idea you might leave a strong enough mark it has an impact on his life, imprint on his psyche, to be mourned in such way. A daddy figure with some strong aspects of the eternal child (or a child like aspect of his archetype) shining through. . . the mature fk'up at the other side of the tunnel. or the wounded veteran (perhaps or perhaps not a warrior).

again, I'd say I'm attracted to some of the weaker aspects in me, I don't want a pure contrast nor do I want someone that's too much like me.. but familiar enough that I can anticipate their needs and they can interpret mine. I likely view some of the rebellious streaks as a form of independence especially if they're willing to deal with the consequences of it. which makes xntj sage/creators an attractive option - the aggression, competitiveness, beneficial challenges, pure raw sexuality ... but mentally/emotionally sync more with xnfj sage/jesters - often shared vulnerabilities, tendency to compartmentalize or chameleon as second nature, intuitively grasp others but struggle with themselves... and there's the contradictions in being the sociable loner of the ixsp explorer/creators with their tendency for literal/proverbial wanderlust, reinventing the wheel and getting their hands dirty, so to speak.

now, of course, the archetypes serve as rough outline or scribbled sketch of their character and likely is more akin to how we think about ennegram, in particular, tritypes with varying maturity stages and wings. it's probably more defined if we say my attraction center on 6s and 8s primarily and 5s and 7s secondly. as more details and colours are added, their appearance as does the landscape change...

 

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Probably yes. But some are contradictory.

I have a fairly wide range.

One of the archetypes (I have no idea if it exists): it is "Nurse". But not just any, someone who is emotionally attached but not very attached. Which is still very good, efficient, hardworking. I mean, someone who wants to help but still isn't very sensitive. But she still cares. But she's not that sensitive. Or at least she has a field in which she is not sensitive and in private she can be sensitive but not too much.

Another archetype is ... that heroine who wants to make the world a better place but not in a sense far from reality. Not dreaming of a Utopia. But who actually dreams of a better world, but possible. Loving, loyal, brave.

Another archetype is ... that rebellious woman who gets into trouble from time to time, who sees life as a game and enjoys everything she does. Which is relaxed, detached. Don't take it too seriously. And seeking of breaking rules for fun. Finding the pleasure in danger. In exploring. In adventure.

Another archetype is ... that bitch who is intelligent, has intuition, but also has emotions and wants adventure and a lot of sex. Who knows how to be intelligent when needed but relies on "instincts" to a large extent.

Another archetype is that of a domineering woman, businesswoman, rational, calculated, who smiles rarely but deeply, markedly. Which never goes wrong and you get the impression that everything is calculated. But which has certain circumstances in which ... she unleashes. In which she lets herself be "controlled" by someone else (me) because she has trust and desire. Something like a mistress. But to be authoritarian with the rest. I want her in a submissive position.

Another archetype is that of the traditional woman but who accepts new things from someone (me). Who is obsessed with her image, with what she does. Which considers the physical aspect more important than the mental one. Which is a little silly but in a way "smart" sometimes. Who is obsessed and considers my rationality useful.

No matter archetype (every one of what I mentioned) I want her to be a bitch in private.
What I wrote about archetypes should be just...the public image.

I think there are many. Which is good.
I have plenty of choices.
 
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