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The lack of refinement--it's kind of tricky because none of these people were really very unrefined though. The most was probably the Second, and he was bent on rejecting the privilege he'd grown up with.

He was almost like reminding me of the story of Siddhartha where he wanted to know what was outside of his palace walls, and he got caught in this extreme cycle to essentially destroy all confinement, even down to his own identity and sanity.

But he was (like all these men) from a somewhat more privileged background than me, so really I would have always taken on the role of being less refined than pretty much any of them. And I also have the propensity to become pretty dumb (and silent) when I'm experiencing strong emotions, so they really would have seen me being more unrefined and unsophisticated, imo.

Wolverine might really just remind me of my dad and myself, in the bigger picture--I was always more angry and more unrefined in that way--more impulsive and likely to rush in and try to save someone, regardless of how stupid it made me look. More simple-minded about issues of love or society. More rebellious against "Society" as a kid. And really, more of a loner than any of these guys.

I think Two was trying to find some kind of "realness" as if he idk...felt separated by his upbringing on the East Coast...something about him, like he wanted to be more ghetto. Like he didn't feel his life was real enough. Everything was too easy for him.

I guess athlete (Three) was sometimes unrefined, but usually that was still within his control and calculated (imo). None of these people were as unpolished and idk...single minded? As me? In some ways the gender expectations were switched--none of these men were macho men either. All probably, on some level, philosophers and pacifists, even if hedonistic at times.

Is this a weaker aspect in me? I guess--I've always been bad at personas or social relationships. I've never been really smart or anything.

With cognitive functions--I guess I could see some kind of sensing function, and my third example tested (and I think it's accurate) as an ESFJ.

But I am not sure--none of them remind me of Te. The first one would have been kind of a philosopher--really both first and second might be sort of like Ti, reminding me of it.

The term "duplicity" comes to mind--because I tend to be fairly transparent and single-minded. I am not duplicitous. But these people would all have some capability of being duplicitous, as they really wouldn't be unrefined. They were all better able to navigate the social realm and definitely none of them would really have been loners. They were all socially malleable, which makes me think of Fe or maybe the duplicity of Ti. None of them are particularly naive or so much "an open book," whereas I am kind of like that, or I can be. They all had more of a social sophistication--either from thinking or feeling, probably.

In some ways, we all shared a sort of less stringent gender role adherence--none of these guys are macho men who would just by nature rush in and save a damsel in distress or something--that is more what I would do, even though I don't view myself as being "macho." Whereas these men would be more likely to try indirect routes--being social and trying to maneuver that way.

So in that way they were actually all more refined than me. Though they did suffer from substance abuse problems--it was only at this point when you really saw them slipping out of their ability to maneuver and navigate socially, when they were just that far gone. However, I am like that normally. It's natural for me to be against the social grain and unsophisticated and out of place in society. They actually had to try to get there. I have to try to pass for someone who has some culture, and even then I feel an acute sense of being an imposter, which is why I prefer to be alone and definitely not to try to get along with a group.

But maybe the lack of refinement is a theme for me. Since it's something I identify with. I very much wanted to be understood. I tend to identify, also, with the characters that are practically mute--like almost the animals. That are so bad at expressing themselves. And I think it's because when I do have strong emotional reactions I do have a hard time articulating anything. Instead I tend to lock up, and I did especially as a kid--so some of these people knew very little about me (like I mean almost nothing) and I was observing them constantly. So it's sort of like the observer--and perhaps I just wanted to be understood or accepted. These are people who would probably be better at reaching people--maybe Fe? Idk.

I thought about this archetype of the sort of mute, wild-person while watching The Boys, and in some ways all these guys are also sort of similar to Frenchie. Frenchie really isn't the most macho character, the most refined, but also not the most unrefined. But he's sort of doing his own thing but better able of navigating the social environment. And so I think that on some level perhaps I appreciated the connection or the interest in connection--the patience, maybe. Of connecting with someone who is normally either intimidating (I was a bit more intimidating as a kid) or just not really that reachable?

I remember with Two, he did seem like a good person too. One of his friends was imo a terrible human being, but he actually helped me and cared for me after his friend did something to harm me (he had also told his friend not to, but his friend did it anyway). So it was this kind of weird relationship where even though he didn't want attachments, he still had a good enough heart to try not to do the right thing and try to help, even if not in a macho way.

But I'll just put this video here, since this is really just musing and there are some parts I'm going to identify with, and perhaps some parts that are different that I am attracted to but I don't identify with, but I figured I'd just leave it here as I'd been thinking about it recently, after watching this video and thinking of some of the characters I'd really liked as a kid.

So it's possible that Wolverine was more egocentric--like I identify with him, or just I identify with him being like my dad or something, whereas the men I've really been attracted to haven't ever really been that much like that, but maybe more like Frenchie in this clip (but also really different). Also maybe even a slight ethnic aspect since these three guys were whiter than white...so there is this idea of the foreigner, or the animalistic non-white (that I might have internalized a little). The savage and society or the nature vs. civilization or culture.

So while that might not really be that accurate in any real capacity, it might be a theme that plays in the background from stories I heard as a child or experiences I had.


But the Boys is an interesting show regarding archetypes--I wonder what the men archetypes would be like in it.
 

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Also, I want to say that I wonder if that aspect (the wild-woman or whatever--the mute woman) could represent a part of the unconscious, and so it is like when you meet someone they can bring out a part of you that was somewhat unconscious and make it seem more civilized (or make it more civilized).

So thinking in terms of cognitive functions or conscious/unconscious archetypes, I wonder if that is part of it--like that maybe something about them appealed to a part of myself that was mostly unconscious (I guess it would be Te or maybe even Ti or Si or something). But perhaps still through being different but complementary.

How confusing!

Edit: I thought of this idea first when @Squirt suggested that they could have brought out a Wendy type of aspect, because I don't identify with her at all (I was a single child and mostly just played with the animals).

But it made me think about how interacting with archetypes (people who we are sort of associating with archetypes) could bring out archetypes within ourselves that we might not tend to be conscious of or identify with consciously.
 

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eh, don't mind me. I'm of the mind that nts simulate their reality. that philosophical wangst, wanking, rambling meandering is an animation cel placed over the landscape and continuously revised to make it fit within.. thus everything we tend to say, theorize, is merely self projection... than being arduously drawn from the wellsprings of knowledge.

But it made me think about how interacting with archetypes (people who we are sort of associating with archetypes) could bring out archetypes within ourselves that we might not tend to be conscious of or identify with consciously.
I think it's why parts therapy has gained a surge in popularity, not only for getting to the emotional conflicts that reside within us but the greater need to apply archetypes to everything.. to put it in a form we can more easily understand, much like children do, however, now we move towards a direction to communicate with them. . . the separation of the conscious mind to that of the biological, the body, the machine. . . and provide context to the external influences.

the methods have changed but it has been explored through out human history, from ecstatic rituals to drug fueled trips, from alchemy to medicine, from science to religion.

altered states, 1980. it's a cheesy film yet perhaps related to some concepts here.

or for the youngins, we could play themes within shin megami tensei, persona... concepts of a multitude of creatures born from our sub/consciousness.

Also, I want to say that I wonder if that aspect (the wild-woman or whatever--the mute woman) could represent a part of the unconscious, and so it is like when you meet someone they can bring out a part of you that was somewhat unconscious and make it seem more civilized (or make it more civilized).
 

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eh, don't mind me. I'm of the mind that nts simulate their reality. that philosophical wangst, wanking, rambling meandering is an animation cel placed over the landscape and continuously revised to make it fit within.. thus everything we tend to say, theorize, is merely self projection... than being arduously drawn from the wellsprings of knowledge.



I think it's why parts therapy has gained a surge in popularity, not only for getting to the emotional conflicts that reside within us but the greater need to apply archetypes to everything.. to put it in a form we can more easily understand, much like children do, however, now we move towards a direction to communicate with them. . . the separation of the conscious mind to that of the biological, the body, the machine. . . and provide context to the external influences.

the methods have changed but it has been explored through out human history, from ecstatic rituals to drug fueled trips, from alchemy to medicine, from science to religion.

altered states, 1980. it's a cheesy film yet perhaps related to some concepts here.

or for the youngins, we could play themes within shin megami tensei, persona... concepts of a multitude of creatures born from our sub/consciousness.



I was reminded of some video I watched about the sides of the brain, and one side of the brain being more emotional, visual and keeping information about previous emotional events (like traumas I guess), and the other side being capable of language.

And when you separate the two and they can't talk to each other very well but the emotional brain keeps doing its thing and then the verbal part of the brain just makes stuff up about what it's doing, having no idea. It just comes up with some jibberish explanation.

That's sort of what I feel like when I'm trying to peer into the murky waters of my mind and catch sight of an archetype to describe. Is it me? Is it him? Is it my family? Is it history?

Thinking of that inaccessible character, usually a female--it's like River from Firefly or like Kimiko or maybe even. So I don't really know what kind of archetype this is but it reminds me a little of Cassandra maybe, who also was involved with Apollo (the god of poetry and music etc--which I related these men to).

So Cassandra sounds crazy is inaccessible, and it really is only Apollo who knows (because he put a curse on her himself). Anyway, I'm not sure if that goes anywhere--but maybe just shows the contrast and relationship between having a mind that can observe things that others do not observe, predict things, but cannot express that.


Or maybe it is about colonialism and just speaking different languages and having different perspectives, but having that barrier of understanding. Cassandra was also Trojan and about to lose a war.

But looking back at the Cassandra thing (I couldn't find a good clip to just describe her, so this guy just summarizes the story--he's trying to sell some business class).

Oh maybe here's a better one:


So I think Cassandra would be a good example of this archetype as well. Because again, she's cursed with people not understanding her or thinking she is crazy (because she looks crazy). She's probably about to get her ass beat by pissing off the town.

So in some ways she reminds me of that side of the brain that doesn't possess language, but does possess the knowledge and the wisdom of what trauma has happened, the emotional side. And so I guess we could associate it with Feeling types more and maybe iNtuitive types--or maybe just Ni in SFP types.

And then, the opposite side--maybe more like Apollo--would be the side that is verbal, can talk and articulate things well. Is socially smooth and able to navigate life without looking crazy and while being taken seriously.

And so I am trying to define this division--like if I was to set types into different camps, I would set Wolverine in Cassandra's camp and I would set Orpheus the god of poetry, or Apollo, into another camp that might also be Feeler, but that compliments that side, as it is the voice for it, like the left brain is the voice for the right brain.

I mean, I'm really trying here to get back to the original topic which is "the people you are attracted to" and not who I identify with, though to some degree, I am sure I identify with people who I am also attracted to. But I guess maybe the gift of language and expression (whether musical or not) is something that they've all had. The First was a musician and also studied philosophy (it was his major) so talking was something he liked to do. The third shmoozed a lot--when I first met him he seemed more into poetry and music than he was. It turned out he really was passionate about going out in nature, but at the same time he reminds me more of Apollo than really anyone.

Kersey would have called me an apollonian.

But maybe it's also something as simple as introversion and extroversion, as my exes have all been way more extroverted than me and so I kind of let them be in charge of the whole friendship/social life thing, whereas if left to myself I never go out or bother to try to connect with other people aside from like the grocery store or random strangers I meet etc.

Either way, these guys were all more social and socially fluid, and this whole topic about Cassandra just came from trying to think about "refinement" and who would really be more refined in my teen years, and it wouldn't have been them.

I do tend to be attracted to people who can articulate things--I dated a guy who really did not like to talk and it was not that great of a relationship. I need to talk about things a lot to figure them. So I guess that unlike Wolverine, these guys probably weren't "strong silent type" people. Which is perhaps why I associated them all with Apollo, musical and poetical figures (even Pan plays from the pan pipes).

I'm not sure how Pan would fit with poetry or music--though I think he did compete against Apollo at one point (with his music). In this video it says he may be associated with "theatrical criticism."


Though some stories of Pan say Hermes is one of his parents, and Hermes is the messenger God so it might make sense to associate them with language and communication, including some artistic expression?

But perhaps it's just my own projection since I would like to be good at expressing myself and I do have some good verbal intelligence, and perhaps that whole struggle between feeling crazy or being able to express one's self or be taken seriously is something typical of people who do learn to express themselves well artistically because you are learning to express something that is difficult to communicate. So I was really just attracted to certain aspects of myself that I wanted to develop at that time.

I certainly could use to be a bit more hedonistic or at least open to emotional interactions (and sensual interactions), maybe--and I could also be more pleasant to be around (in a group). I would associate this with Fe or Si I guess. I guess it's sort of like the Eternal Child. But also maybe a little like the Bard type.

Like perhaps Geralt and Jaskier/Dandelion show a good relationship between extroversion and introversion, but they serve different roles. Geralt tends to take the greater amount of pain and suffering, to decide the ethical nitty gritty, and also to be really unexpressive. Maybe he's like the right brain, and Dandelion makes up for that in the show by being the go-between between Geralt and the rest of the people--so as to increase Geralt's profit. So while I relate to both of these characters and I do not relate to their relationship with each other that much, maybe it's another example of how extroversion and introversion can balance each other out or work together in relationships?

Jaskier does tend to just make stuff up like the left brain does when it's not connected to the right. And Geralt has a lot more substance and going on inside that never sees the world because of his lack of expression.

Even though Geralt isn't what I'd think of when I think of INFPs or ISFPs, but I think the "monster hunting" and the sort of dealing with that kind of duality of deciding who is a monster and who is not could be associated with Fi in some way--that it's also a mechanism that is not very visible or easy to explain. A lot of people complain that Fi is just subjective and that it has no reasoning--but I think that it just isn't very transparent (if it can even explain) about where the conclusions or judgments come from. Unlike Te or Fe. Of course Si and Ni and Ti are also similar to Fi in that they are introverted functions.

Jaskier is more like an NF I think, Kersey would have said he's Apollonian. But maybe that is sort of the archetype I was thinking of. And maybe it does tend to complement the sort of less accessible archetypes--like how Dandelion complements Geralt (they are both extremes and they both annoy me in their own way). I guess Geralt is also sort of similar to Wolverine too though.

So yeah--idk. Trying to be on topic. lol


As an adult I think my crushes have been more related to Te or something--or thinking functions. As a teen I really didn't even register what that was though I would get into arguments sometimes with someone who I suspect was an INT. And that was about it. But I've never really been around a lot of NTs--just haven't shared the same spaces, I don't think.

I think Vision seems more Thinker type--like from Wandavision. Maybe Te. Idk.

So maybe it's a process of consciousness--animus is supposed to represent or perhaps hold the parts of ourselves that we see as being foreign to ourselves--so perhaps it's just kind of working down the line of functions and bringing them into consciousness the more we develop. At this point it might be Thinking for me. idk
 

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Why aren't these videos posting as videos?! Oh--it must have been that I had already put too many videos in my last post so they were just loading as previews.

 

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@Rift I don't think I brought this up in the other comments, but I thought it might be something you may have thought about since you write about non-heterosexual culture sometimes, and I also saw it featured in some of the Jaskier/Dandelion videos--but it is the role of gender roles and sexuality.

Like it was interesting to consider if Geralt was female or a feminine version of that silent type--and Jaskier was the masculine archetype of what we tend to see as more feminine behavior nowa days.

I think that there's a really clear sort of power dynamic between them too--like the witcher is dominant and Jaskier is submissive to a degree, but imagine if that power dynamic didn't really exist that way b/c Geralt was female and I think it's a little more relatable for me. Of course Geralt is a man of action--he's very badass, but just having the silent, unexpressive loner (which probably was me during a lot of my teen years) and then having this sort of much more socially fluid person who was interested because who-even-knows-why, maybe just because in some way they are both misfits to a degree, of their own gender.

Myself, as a teen looking sort of scary with a shaved head and a scowl and then at least with #1 he was actually more into fashion and did actually wear makeup (which wasn't super normal for boys then) and did have some aspects of his gender performance being more feminine almost. Like I remember at one point later, him complaining about his girlfriend's mustache really bothering him, because he hated his own body hair and wanted to jump in a vat of nair.

So its also interesting if you throw in gender performances--or are masculine and feminine seen as archetypes or types of archetypes? The people who don't quite fit....I don't identify with a tomboy but I also definitely haven't always felt a strong identity with what is expected of the female gender. So while I was trying to figure out what the mutual attraction even was, I did think about this a bit.

Even my most recent ex, #3, is an ESFJ and his hands suggest that he was exposed to more estrogen at birth and have the more feminine finger pattern, whereas mine have the more masculine one that suggest I was exposed to a lot of testosterone in utero.

So while I don't consider myself bisexual, I wonder if there was something to that lack of adherence to gender identity during that period that also was familiar for each of us, but also sort of opposite.

I didn't really want to get into this too much though, because I feel it's easy to misunderstand and I also am not going through that stage of exploring gender expectations anymore and am pretty firm about how I feel about my gender. I don't feel the need to challenge society's expectations anymore. But at the time, I would say all these guys are a bit more "feminine" in society's eyes. And I was probably masculine in some ways, but not really.

With myself and #1--I know he's settled into just seeming to be heterosexual though he was bisexual. He doesn't wear makeup etc. I don't have a shaved head and I also don't think there's anything obviously non-gender-conforming about me now. But when we were teens and young adults we were both sort of androgynous-looking in our fashions. He with long hair, me with shaved head...both of us mixing masculine and feminine clothing in ways to express ourselves individually.

So idk...but something I thought about.
 

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With myself and #1--I know he's settled into just seeming to be heterosexual though he was bisexual. He doesn't wear makeup etc. I don't have a shaved head and I also don't think there's anything obviously non-gender-conforming about me now. But when we were teens and young adults we were both sort of androgynous-looking in our fashions. He with long hair, me with shaved head...both of us mixing masculine and feminine clothing in ways to express ourselves individually.

So idk...but something I thought about.
Anima and animus.
 

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Does this guy in the music video correlate with any archetype?

I'm not attracted to him, but he reminds me of positions I've been in dating--especially like how the woman is holding the gun (trigger warning if anyone is triggered by suicidal imagery or violence, the music video isn't graphic but it could be triggering?).

Like I always feel like I am forced to kill attractions--so I don't know if this would be just some general dangerous type of shadow complex stuff/animus stuff or if this kind of thing fits another attitude.

Not his performance so much as the lyrics. Figure'd I'd just ask since the song seems kind of familiar to how I experience some relationships. It was weirdly familiar when I heard it.

Maybe it's just a sort of universal messed-up-relationship-almost-ended song.

 

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People who do their own thing and are underestimated.
People who laugh a lot.
Intellectual discourse that somehow becomes passionate sex.
People who express their passions.
Work hard and play hard.

That sort of archetype (whatever that is).
 

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Does this guy in the music video correlate with any archetype?

I'm not attracted to him, but he reminds me of positions I've been in dating--especially like how the woman is holding the gun (trigger warning if anyone is triggered by suicidal imagery or violence, the music video isn't graphic but it could be triggering?).

Like I always feel like I am forced to kill attractions--so I don't know if this would be just some general dangerous type of shadow complex stuff/animus stuff or if this kind of thing fits another attitude.

Not his performance so much as the lyrics. Figure'd I'd just ask since the song seems kind of familiar to how I experience some relationships. It was weirdly familiar when I heard it.

Maybe it's just a sort of universal messed-up-relationship-almost-ended song.

It strikes me as the universal messed up, push-pull relationship where no one wants to be vulnerable.

I like this song, especially since the weeknd broke out of the deadly boring hip hop/r&b mold that dominates pop.
 

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It strikes me as the universal messed up, push-pull relationship where no one wants to be vulnerable.

I like this song, especially since the weeknd broke out of the deadly boring hip hop/r&b mold that dominates pop.

I've never heard them before. It was just the first video on youtube music that popped up. But then I listened and watched and it seemed kind of interesting.

that's an interesting interpretation--I see how it could be about vulnerability because they guy is like wearing a mask even if he's not wearing one. And then his waving the gun around looks like insecurity in a way--or people fearing to look vulnerable.

I haven't checked out any of their other stuff--but the song does seem sort of universal. I like it too.
 

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Specific archetypes? Yes, might be true..., now when I think about it.

I guess I should be thankful that I very rarely run into imitations of this archetype in real life, since I then just can focus on my work, without having any distracting thoughts regarding to..., do mating routine. It is not a bad thing to be picky after all...

I can recall that I has only happened 2.5-ish times that I actually seen a spicy tomboy in the wild, good they are rare, else I would probably never get anything done. If they would exist that much, I would probably just being romantic and giggly and hugging pillows as well as indirectly chasing them..., until they literally hunt me down and beat me up... xD
 

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Which ones? How does that influence your attraction to them? Why do you think you go for one archetype over another, if you do?

Here is a list of potential archetypes to get started:

Archetypes List: The Ultimate List of Over 325 Archetypes (scottjeffrey.com)
That's a lot of archetypes. Out of 325 archetypes, the type I'm attracted is surely going to be a match for at least one of them. After all, archetypes are stereotypes, technically speaking, so it's not hard to place someone in an archetype.

While there's too many to read, I can tell you my type and if you're interested and knowledgeable on the subject deduce which one is the archetype I'm attracted to.

I would like someone: caring and fun.

These are the 2 main attributes of that person. Other than that, I would like them to have a good character. Character is to treat people right, to be considerate about the way they feel. Someone who is not pretentious or sophisticated, with whom I can talk normally like it's a casual conversation. Someone who has a generally positive attitude, not being a complainer. She doesn't need to smile if he doesn't feel like it, but she doesn't have to be frowning, it gives the impression she wants to be left alone. People with a friendly attitude charge others with a positive energy. Of course, you don't have to be over the top, just enough to charge people with a positive energy.

But one of the most important things is being caring. To be caring about the person I mean. This is what love is above all else, care. To not be superficial, only in it for the looks. While looks matter, both ways, I would like someone who looks beyond looks when into dating, someone I would get to like by getting to know them. Instead, I would like to have a deep connection that is not about looks, someone who cares about me, someone who is interested in me and not my possessions. Love is more than having a good character, love is preferential treatment, love is care for one another.

I have to mention that I'm a male. So I'm not looking for qualities such as guts, initiative, confidence, dignity. For a man, I think it's important to have that to be attractive, but for a woman is optional. A shy man is less attractive than a shy woman. At the same time, I don't believe love is magic, it's beautiful but not magic, we love people because they have certain qualities, it all comes down to what qualities do you have that make you attractive? as seen from the outside, as people can't get into your head. For me, I would like someone who is caring and fun, someone that I love and also loves me.
 

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325 archetypes... I'll get back to this later.

I've never read much about archetypes or never really knew/undetstood what they were.

Edit: Seems a little bit of a load of wank to me.
 
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