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On good days, I'm cheerful, flirty, accommodating, playful, driven to succeed, friendly, helpful, success-oriented, group-driven, silly, curious, caring, competitive in a sportsmanlike manner. I'm okay with things slipping through my fingers, for the most part.

But then other days...

I have a particular tendency which can be viewed in two lights, I have a habit of grasping onto issues with suffocating, piercing talons, never letting go until what I'm grasping is violently burst into pieces. It is a quality that has made me resourceful, giving me the ability to find out what I want to find out, or get certain things that I want, but it's also a quality that has destroyed many other people including myself. When I have a problem which prods at my brain I will stop at nothing to get it relieved, particularly when this problem has to do with someone not giving me what I want. I also get many compulsions of physical violence, but I have never followed through on them (with exception to a couple times in my youth).

When I'm in this state of mind, I can't let go regardless of how hard I try, and this will usually end up in me compromising important tasks and goals that I need to get done.

I've noted that I enjoy seeing the aggressors in emotional distress/pain at one point or another -- at a certain point getting what I originally wanted is not enough, I find myself wanting to twist their arm backwards as well, kind of like a "fuck you for what you put me through".

I become controlling, domineering, manipulative, exploitative, uncaring of other's emotions or obligations. Fierce, determined, and relentless, but usually for unhealthy goals.

One particular example is a girlfriend. Everything started out quite well, as it always does. Overtime I slowly began to feel more and more of my values or lines were being violated, particularly in the trust department. We live in a big city, and often times she'd be traveling alone through the city, or going to private events, or meeting with certain guy friends -- and wearing outfits I'd deem inappropriate for those situations such as short skirts, low-cut shirts which reveal too much, etc. (they'd be particularly low cut because she would get comments left and right about pulling her shirt up from various people). Anyway, long story short -- I confront her, she disagrees, I confront her again until she eventually agrees, then she finds loopholes, then I confront her about those loopholes, then she finds other loopholes, etc. Eventually accuses me of micromanaging her, I can't not because trust is violated, etc. etc.

This just one example. Eventually it gets to a point where I'm punishing, turning cold shoulders, hitting where I know it hurts. Because it almost makes me feel better knowing I have control over the situation, and exercising that control means seeing the aggressor in pain.

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The reason I bring up the whole story is for a complete background. So far, this seems to resonate quite closely with a level 7 (unhealthy) type 8:

Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.
Though also seems like it might fall under levels 8 or 9 of a type 3 (excluding the murderous tendencies):

Level 8: Devious and deceptive so that their mistakes and wrongdoings will not be exposed. Untrustworthy, maliciously betraying or sabotaging people to triumph over them. Delusionally jealous of others

Level 9: Become vindictive, attempting to ruin others' happiness. Relentless, obsessive about destroying whatever reminds them of their own shortcomings and failures. Psychopathic, murder. Generally corresponds to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I've noticed when I get in these phases I tend to lose zeal for other areas of my life; I become a one-way street. Apart from my goal, I fall apart, lose order, lose organization, lose friendliness, etc.

One thing I don't do is pick fights with others when I'm like this -- I'm pretty talented at compartmentalizing my relationships with people. But, of course, there is always a little bleed over.


Could I be a mistyped 8? I considered the idea of being a type 2 who has disintegrated to type 8 but devoting my life to helping others generally isn't enough for me -- I've tried that out. I don't know if these qualities are characteristic of any type 3...


Edit: wanted to add that when I get like this, I make for an incredible detective (adds on to my resourcefulness). If any of you have seen the show Dexter, I can become that stalker -- but on a smaller scale of course.
 

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This just one example. Eventually it gets to a point where I'm punishing, turning cold shoulders, hitting where I know it hurts. Because it almost makes me feel better knowing I have control over the situation, and exercising that control means seeing the aggressor in pain.
It's pretty common when you have an 8 in your tritype to feel like you need control. I think anyone with an 8 in their tritype has difficulty letting go of anger. When I'm angry I get really angry and I can't let go of it. Wanting to indulge anger is 8.

Whether you are an 8 for your core is a matter only you will have to determine.

But here's my take on it anyway...

I feel a lot of 8 in your post so it's possible that it's your core type.

5w4 is the most 8-like 5, too, and it's my general observation that the 358 tritype is the most control oriented tri-type. 3 wants success--puts efficiency and image before emotions or values. 5 wants control and perfection in knowledge. And 8 just doesn't want to be controlled by anyone, wants to be in charge of his/her own world and fate. So when you get those three types together you're bound to get furious about things every once and again.

In any case, in terms of your girlfriend situation, it seems like you're jealous. I guess I associate that more with type 8 than either 3 or 5. Most type 5's are not openly jealous a little clingy sometimes but not openly angry or jealous. And most type 3's are sort of too concerned with their image and thinking about getting laid themselves to really get jealous either--they're more likely to be angry about the fact that they don't have a million women hanging around their arms so they could just forget about that girl or impress her back into their arms. So, I could see in that case you being a type 8 core more than 3. But really, any combination of 358 could still be your tritype.

Also, I just wanted to say that 8's aren't always like killing people or something. They're nothing how people make them out to be. Just sometimes they get angry. Other people don't like the anger so they think 8's are monsters especially after reading the description. But I've met 8's in real life and they're sometimes loud and they sometimes like to fight, and yeah they get angry and when they're angry it can be a bit intimidating, etc. But they can also be incredibly kind, generous, and magnanimous. Underneath it all, they are warm, protective giants and just want to be accepted for who they are and appreciated for what they do.

Okay, I hope that helps. I am your quasi-identical after all and I've had ENTJs tell me in the past that I can be a bit unclear with what I'm saying. So, here's the quick and dirty: you very well might be an 8 for your core but that's not a bad thing.
 

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@marzipan01, that was extremely insightful, couldn't have asked for much more. Thank you.

Based on your getting laid description, I'm certainly an 8. I always take a head on ram heads approach, rather than trying to manipulate the field around the issue in attempts to avoid conflict but still get the goal accomplished. Though how often I have energy to delve into a conflict is another story.

Though I am also pretty self-image conscious and care / enjoy hearing what other people think, so.. type 3.

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I'm glad to hear it's characteristic of type 8s to exhibit many of the qualities I described. Here I thought I was a lone tyrant. If there's one thing that's certain about type 8s it's that, despite all the good qualities, they need to learn to simmer down more or less.

Come to think of it, all my conflicts with my parents revolve around power struggles.

Anyway, I will ponder on it. Thank you again for your help.
 

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What makes you say that?
actually, I take it back. this seems like some sort of combination of 6, 2 and Sx variant
- 6: micromanaging, various paranoia's about "trust". a core 8 would be more likely to think "she can handle herself" not fixate on the possibility of
- 2: you seem to have this mentality of "I know what's best for you, so you must obey me" you seem to think people will respond positively to this. on a more shallow note, among the attributes you praise in yourself are group driven, helpful, friendly and caring. on top of this you're "image conscious and care what other people think". it's not impossible for a core 8 to feel these things, bur frankly, the majority of them do not. also, remember 2 disintegrates to 8
- Sx dom: clear preoccupation with significant other during times when in a relationship
- I could possibly see a 1 fix as well, though I have less evidence for this. you appear to have very conservative views on relationship protocol, dress and trust that I have difficulty seeing an 8 putting so much moral weight behind. that said, an 8 fix is possible too. I could see you as a core 2w1 with an 8 fix as I see qualities of both 1 and 8

so I'd say at this point I'm thinking core 2 or core 6 are most likely

PS: I won't comment as to the eventual consequences of your behavior, but I suggest you take some time to think about them and reevaluate your boundaries, the boundaries of others and where they differ.

Edit: my current guess is 6w5 or 2w3 (either one could be first) followed by8w7 or 1w2 as your last fix and Sx/??
you seem far to focused on others to be a core 8
 

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@Swordsman of Mana
sx 8s can be controlling in relationships. 8's can have a conflicted relationship with trust in intimate settings. So, the micromanaging thing he is doing there with her clothing could easily come from an average (not EI's health levels) to somewhat unhealthy 8. Sx 8s tend to want to 'possess' their partners. They can get very controlling in similar ways. This kind of 8 is fully capable of telling a woman what to wear, how to move, what to eat, when unhealthy. That said, I have seen non-8s and non-6s confront their partners about clothing, so I wouldn't type him conclusively based on that alone. Sx first, though, is just about guaranteed.

@AbioticPrime, that sadistic side is definitely reflecting strong 8 influence. 3w2 is in there too. Now, I could see you as a core 8 with a strong 3 fix or a core 3 with a strong 8 fix. I would be very interested in reading your answers to the questionnaire. One lesson I've learnt from typing people is that the most obvious type can, upon examination, turn out to be just a fix not the core type..and sometimes not even that. So, now I pay even more attention than I did earlier. The more information I have from you, the closer I get to your type. I always thought @Sovereign was a core 8, but his questionnaire was very helpful because it got me (and more importantly Sovereign lol) to explore his type further. Anyway, do the questionnaire if you want. It can be very useful.
 

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On good days, I'm cheerful, flirty, accommodating, playful, driven to succeed, friendly, helpful, success-oriented, group-driven, silly, curious, caring, competitive in a sportsmanlike manner. I'm okay with things slipping through my fingers, for the most part.

But then other days...

I have a particular tendency which can be viewed in two lights, I have a habit of grasping onto issues with suffocating, piercing talons, never letting go until what I'm grasping is violently burst into pieces. It is a quality that has made me resourceful, giving me the ability to find out what I want to find out, or get certain things that I want, but it's also a quality that has destroyed many other people including myself. When I have a problem which prods at my brain I will stop at nothing to get it relieved, particularly when this problem has to do with someone not giving me what I want. I also get many compulsions of physical violence, but I have never followed through on them (with exception to a couple times in my youth).

When I'm in this state of mind, I can't let go regardless of how hard I try, and this will usually end up in me compromising important tasks and goals that I need to get done.

I've noted that I enjoy seeing the aggressors in emotional distress/pain at one point or another -- at a certain point getting what I originally wanted is not enough, I find myself wanting to twist their arm backwards as well, kind of like a "fuck you for what you put me through".

I become controlling, domineering, manipulative, exploitative, uncaring of other's emotions or obligations. Fierce, determined, and relentless, but usually for unhealthy goals.

One particular example is a girlfriend. Everything started out quite well, as it always does. Overtime I slowly began to feel more and more of my values or lines were being violated, particularly in the trust department. We live in a big city, and often times she'd be traveling alone through the city, or going to private events, or meeting with certain guy friends -- and wearing outfits I'd deem inappropriate for those situations such as short skirts, low-cut shirts which reveal too much, etc. (they'd be particularly low cut because she would get comments left and right about pulling her shirt up from various people). Anyway, long story short -- I confront her, she disagrees, I confront her again until she eventually agrees, then she finds loopholes, then I confront her about those loopholes, then she finds other loopholes, etc. Eventually accuses me of micromanaging her, I can't not because trust is violated, etc. etc.

This just one example. Eventually it gets to a point where I'm punishing, turning cold shoulders, hitting where I know it hurts. Because it almost makes me feel better knowing I have control over the situation, and exercising that control means seeing the aggressor in pain.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason I bring up the whole story is for a complete background. So far, this seems to resonate quite closely with a level 7 (unhealthy) type 8:



Though also seems like it might fall under levels 8 or 9 of a type 3 (excluding the murderous tendencies):




I've noticed when I get in these phases I tend to lose zeal for other areas of my life; I become a one-way street. Apart from my goal, I fall apart, lose order, lose organization, lose friendliness, etc.

One thing I don't do is pick fights with others when I'm like this -- I'm pretty talented at compartmentalizing my relationships with people. But, of course, there is always a little bleed over.


Could I be a mistyped 8? I considered the idea of being a type 2 who has disintegrated to type 8 but devoting my life to helping others generally isn't enough for me -- I've tried that out. I don't know if these qualities are characteristic of any type 3...


Edit: wanted to add that when I get like this, I make for an incredible detective (adds on to my resourcefulness). If any of you have seen the show Dexter, I can become that stalker -- but on a smaller scale of course.
I can relate with this to an extent. Whenever someone does something that I don't like, that I expressly forbid, that I REALLY don't want them to do, I get exactly like you say. I just don't get there often.

Than again, after reading, I think my body is an 8w1 or 1w8. Since this is impossible, I still don't know what I am. lol
 
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I can relate with this to an extent. Whenever someone does something that I don't like, that I expressly forbid, that I REALLY don't want them to do, I get exactly like you say. I just don't get there often.

Than again, after reading, I think my body is an 8w1 or 1w8. Since this is impossible, I still don't know what I am. lol
perhaps you're a 7w8 with a 1 fix (like me ^_^)
 

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perhaps you're a 7w8 with a 1 fix (like me ^_^)
After reading "Wisdom," that was my initial conclusion. I identify with a lot of the things that concern 8s, perhaps just as much as I do with 7. I'm trying to determine which is dominant there.

In order to have a 1 fix, I'd pretty much have to be 7, so I'm trying to determine to what level of strength a wing is expected to manifest and how it affects the core. Wisdom didn't spend a whole lot of time on that topic, and a few others, so I've ordered 3 more books. I had a 1 parent (1.5 of them, actually- 1w2, 2w1), so I need to find the root of that before I call the one fix mine. It might well be, though.

That's my apparent progress so far, but I plan to reveal my full findings later in the Type Me forum.
 

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After reading "Wisdom," that was my initial conclusion. I identify with a lot of the things that concern 8s, perhaps just as much as I do with 7. I'm trying to determine which is dominant there.

In order to have a 1 fix, I'd pretty much have to be 7, so I'm trying to determine to what level of strength a wing is expected to manifest and how it affects the core. Wisdom didn't spend a whole lot of time on that topic, and a few others, so I've ordered 3 more books. I had a 1 parent (1.5 of them, actually- 1w2, 2w1), so I need to find the root of that before I call the one fix mine. It might well be, though.

That's my apparent progress so far, but I plan to reveal my full findings later in the Type Me forum.
you're a 7/8 and your parents were a 1w2 and 2w1.....holy shit that must have sucked XD
 

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you're a 7/8 and your parents were a 1w2 and 2w1.....holy shit that must have sucked XD
No kidding. All I wanted to do as a kid was enjoy myself. My dad was 1w2, and he was very strict. I hated it at the time, but I learned a lot of responsibility. It came naturally, I think, as I have a definite superego fix myself that conflicted with his. Whereas he was probably 1w2, 2w1, 7w8 so/sx, I was possibly 7, 1, 3 sp/so. His strictness and harsh punishment caused me much fear and discomfort in my younger years, and probably pushed me towards the 8 wing and a self-preservation mindset. Even though he had his faults, he played a part in making me self-sufficient both physically and emotionally, and that's one of the things I like most about myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Main Questions

1. What drives you in life? What do you look for?

I look to live life for whatever I will it to be. I look to iron out all issues and strive to create a perfect existence for myself and those around me, even though the limit will never reach infinity (hopefully you understand my calculus reference). I strive to protect my loved ones, and to achieve perfect control of myself and my emotions.

2. What do you hope to accomplish in your life?

I hope to reach happiness, and find means to stay there. I hope to be an example for those struggling below me. I hope to accomplish my goals, and learn to get what I want in healthy ways. I hope to learn how to make life less of a struggle.

3. What do you hope to avoid doing or being? What values are important to you?

I loathe being emotional. I loathe falling trap to an empty nothing, which taints my perception of the world and causes me to make poor decisions -- I want to have full control of the car when I drive, the car being me. I dislike being a passive bystander. I won't be a doormat. I dislike being too selfish and narcissistic.

Values. A little extra aggression can make my task so much more pleasurable. Personally, I value contribution, willingness to work to the end, sticking to words, taking initiative, vocalizing (sometimes I personally don't vocalize enough), persistence. And for myself I value action, planning, independence.

4. What are your biggest fears (not including phobias)? Why?

I don't feel comfortable disclosing this.

5. How do you want others to see you? How do you see yourself?

I want others to notice and respect me. To agree with what I ask. To be considerate/thoughtful.

I don't really see myself because I don't really know myself. I think I am less aggressive, consistent, and organized than I believe myself to be. I also think I have poor interpersonal skills -- I can make many acquaintances and impress many people but I can't really connect. I'm pretty selfish in that I could most of the time care less how my actions affect other people, and I can be fairly exploitative whether it's harmful to the other party or not.

6. What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?

I feel best when I'm in control of any and all situations I exist in. When I can get the people around me to willingly cooperate, and hold the reins to myself and my emotions. When my life is structured, ordered, planned, and successfully executed. When I can take off my mask and openly express my intensity -- whether it be negative, positive, serious, flowery, destructive. Freedom.

I feel at my worst when I drown in complex emotions, knowing no way out. It makes me feel utterly powerless, and permeates the order and flow I've constructed in my life, ruining the hard work I've put in. When I can't stay persistent, can't focus, can't succeed.
When I'm scoffed at or replaced.

7. Describe how you experience each of: a) anger; b) shame; c) anxiety.
a) My anger is overwhelming. I never take it out physically or throw tantrums. I take it out on others through emotional violence, mostly because I can't contain it. I always try to isolate myself in bouts of anger, but it never holds.
b) When I feel shame, I put my head down and retreat. Once I've made a mistake I feel shameful for, my motivation is cut and I feel unworthy of my position.
c) My anxiety is often just as overwhelming as my anger. I become neurotic -- overanalytical -- insane. I do too much research, too much thinking -- I connect dots like no tomorrow. Sherlock would be proud. Then once I feel I've figured out what's really going on, I acquire this obsession -- I need to verify my conclusion, I need to see if what I've discovered is true. So I go out and keep pushing and pressing until I get my answer. It's a nasty cycle.

8. Describe how you respond to each of: a) stress; b) unexpected change; c) conflict.
a) I either get aggressive, cut the crap, and focus or I freeze in a thoughtless daze for a very long time.
b) I recalculate. I'm generally good with changes, though if a change is due to the sloth of another person I generally iron them out.
c) Before I was pretty bad with conflict. I'm trying to let things go more, and I'm trying to practice dual truths -- both sides can be right at the same time. But when that fails, I snap back into my original phase -- and that's extreme rigidity/stubbornness. I'm good at pulling out logical arguments and attacking with those. Or if I'm facing a creature of emotion, hitting them exactly where it hurts.

9. Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?

a) I respect authorities in a field and usually trust their guidance. But when the authority crosses certain boundaries I take my own path -- trailblazing through. If there is no authority, I push to establish one -- whether it's myself or someone I trust.
b) Power. I need to have my own sense of power. I need to have a firm grip of something -- at least a handle. As long as I feel I have power over at least some part of a situation, I can relax a little. If I have no power in a situation and can't get any -- I go elsewhere.

10. What is your overall outlook on life and humanity?

I think life is beautiful. Even all the ugliness is part of the beauty. Without pushiness, stubbornness, and will power I would get nowhere in life. Would it be alright for me to get nowhere? No. I have to feel I've succeeded at things. I have to keep reaching out for more. I have to keep exercising my talents -- stretching my abilities. Life is about both the chase and the catch, so sitting on your catch wont cut it -- there has to be chase.

I also think life is about friendship, compassion, respect, but I'm too untrusting to openly hand these out.

Humanity is far more brittle than it seems.. to me at least.


Optional Questions

12. Comment on your relationship with trust.

Trust is a tough thing to earn from me, mostly because I can see through bullshit.. and people bullshit a lot. I don't really trust anyone, and I think that's a large part of my problem. Here's a silly example: in my schooling experience classmates are always willing to ask one another "hey what was the homework? hey, what did I miss? hey, can I copy your notes?". I never trust this. I always go straight to the source -- either the legal course documents, or the teacher/professor themselves. Even if it's a simple question. I have to be sure.

13. List some of the traits you: a) like; b) dislike most about yourself.

a) I'm clever, intelligent, unique, not afraid to be aggressive, fairly independent, am quick to make decisions, and see more than many.
b) I can be tyrannical, inconsiderate, panicky, disorganized, inconsistent, overbearing, unpleasant, awkward, and abstain from taking action.

14. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?

Their fears. I don't really know what people like, but I know what they dislike. The only way I can understand what people like is by memorizing facts about them, "she likes X because she told me she likes X. He likes Y because he always picks Y at the store." I can usually see what people try to hide from the world.

15. If a stranger insults you, how do you respond/feel? What if they compliment you?

I try to ignore it as long as a scene wasn't caused. I wouldn't really confront and retaliate, I'm done with those days -- there's no point in reacting to an insecure fool, that's playing into their hand. The farthest I usually go is shooting back a death stare.

But I'm always prepared to get physical.

I feed off of compliments. It's extremely narcissistic of me. It's almost as if compliments are my little drug fix I thrive on. I'll seem like I'm ignoring it or am just barely trying to show appreciation of something I don't really pay attention to but on the inside I'm enjoying it a little too much.

16. What's something you are: a) thankful you have; b) wish you could have? Why?

a) This is sad, I can't really think of anything to be thankful for. But thank you, discreet online questionnaire for a moment of inspiration/realization. I will ponder on this.

b) I wish I could have complete control over myself, and that I didn't have to struggle to keep it. That way I could finally relax.
 

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@AbioticPrime

Thanks so much. Could you start a fresh thread in the What's my E-type forum? If not, we could discuss your type here just as well.

My first impression is that your gut fix is one, definitely not 8. This is strange because the sadism is a very 8-like trait. That said, an sx first 1 can also have a sadistic (usually in sexual/intimate matters..sx 1s try to perfect their mate, and raising questions about clothing [integrity theme] can be very one-ish) anger (resentment) laced edge. It's very likely that you're a core 1, but it's very interesting that what seemed so 8-like in your personality, upon further examination, seems to be coming from a very different place. You have a strong drive for imposing order onto your environment. Your desire to set a positive example for others, in light of the rest of your responses, is incredibly one-ish as well (1w2). 8 is an id-type. It's the type least likely to want to control their impulses and (repression of instinctual urges and emotions is One). SOM was onto something there. Your heart fix is 3w2. Your head fix is 6w5. I am a little short on time. But, I will get back to you.

In the meantime, I need you to read the 1,3,8 and 6 descriptions here:

1. Typewatch Enneagram: Typewatch Enneagram Type Descriptions

2. the enneagram ...info from the underground


Think about this statement as you read through descriptions:
I wish I could have complete control over myself, and that I didn't have to struggle to keep it. That way I could finally relax.

Tentative typing: most likely 1w2-6w5-3w2. second..possibility..leading with 3w2-1w2-6w5. So far, I don't see core 6 though I see strong 6 themes in your answers.
 

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@Boss, I think here should do just fine, since the sadism is part of the discussion.

Sexually speaking, I always take the lead. I don't perfect my partner in that domain ever, really.

The clothing situation is far less about integrity, and far more about my control over keeping her around for my needs, and keeping herself safe for her own sanity, not necessarily in that order. I'm not sure if this is part of the integrity theme, but a large part of it is I couldn't bare to be with a girl who's "impure" since I've been with her. It makes me feel less important, less in control in general, and just less in general.

I'm curious as to what place you're pointing to?
I will look into those. Thank you by the way
 

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I meant intimate relationships, not perfecting how well someone performs in the bedroom;). This isn't about sexual habits. I should've been more clear.

What is "impure" in this context? What does clothing have to do with impurity? Could you elaborate on that point.

What place? did you mean in that last comment?

ALso, check out this link:
http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/NaranjoSubtypes.pdf

It contains paraphrases of Naranjo's lectures. Naranjo is one of the founding theorists of the Enneagram. Much of his work is not available online.
 

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@AbioticPrime

My first impression is that your gut fix is one, definitely not 8. It's very likely that you're a core 1,....., upon further examination, seems to be coming from a very different place. You have a strong drive for imposing order onto your environment. Your desire to set a positive example for others, in light of the rest of your responses, is incredibly one-ish as well (1w2). 8 is an id-type. It's the type least likely to want to control their impulses and (repression of instinctual urges and emotions is One). SOM was onto something there. Your heart fix is 3w2. Your head fix is 6w5. I am a little short on time. But, I will get back to you.


Tentative typing: most likely 1w2-6w5-3w2. second..possibility..leading with 3w2-1w2-6w5. So far, I don't see core 6 though I see strong 6 themes in your answers.
+1..........
 
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