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So if a woman is happy with her body, she's a narcissist?
No, that might be why people give you a hard time about telling other people what about your body that you like. Because narcissism is a thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
No, that might be why people give you a hard time about telling other people what about your body that you like. Because narcissism is a thing.
Where did I say that?

People are having a conversation about how much they hate their bodies and you think I cut in with what I think of my body? Mostly people assume I'm not comfortable talking about my body because I haven't shared my thoughts. The entire point is that it's not okay just be happy with your body. If I felt I could just express that, why would I even post this thread?

You're dense.
 

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Where did I say that?

People are having a conversation about how much they hate their bodies and you think I cut in with what I think of my body? Mostly people assume I'm not comfortable talking about my body because I haven't shared my thoughts. The entire point is that it's not okay just be happy with your body. If I felt I could just express that, why would I even post this thread?

You're dense.
I was responding to those two particular paragraphs. You like yourself and that's a good thing, but some people may wrongly interpret your appreciating yourself as gloating and that's why some people may want to "bring you down a notch or two". I think you'd be surprised what the average person considers to be too much self-love and where the point that admiring yourself means narcissism.

Basically the long short of it is, if you say you like yourself, you don't even have to say much but people are going to interpret what you're saying as you like yourself TOO much and thus need to be criticized. I don't think society necessarily wants women to feel negative about their body, but there are entire industries dedicated to profiting from body negativity though, especially female body negativity. So you have to keep that in mind.
 

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Imo people are generally conditioned to look for ways to put themselves in a fixer position. A lot of people barely register life as anything other than a string of one-up interactions. You see it far more broadly than just the body discourse. Some people will try to tell you a better way of crossing the street if you give them a chance. They don't seem to know any other way to converse.

So naturally to people like that, there's no such thing as a status quo that's already just fine. They'll concoct something to correct you about no matter how you present. People will insert their pre-rehearsed 'expertise' whether it's applicable or not.

I do think from long experience that society carries a default assumption that if you're a woman, there's going to be something they'll be entitled or qualified to meddle with. So we come in for a shit ton of it, and assuming we all have body dysphoria is one of their most relied-upon premises. Would will deliver their pre-rehearsed lines whether they fit a given discussion or not. And there is already so much well intentioned verbiage out there determined to head is all off from whatever the emotional maladaptation of the fashion is, most people already do have a stack of little Pre-rehearsed 'advice' to give.
 

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@Catwalk

I wouldn't ever be with a man that accepts or forgives my weakness, but pushes me to overcome them.

That is complicated. As many will do that, but to control you.
 

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Happy people are shit consumers. As for society, most of us mentally checked out for lunch a long time ago and never came back. Our minds have been the playgrounds of every hollywood pervert for decades now. If it makes you feel any better, men get the same treatment.
 

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I think there's another aspect to this situation, that people don't seem comfortable with addressing.

There have been few times in history wherein, not only premarital sex, but casual sex has been normalized the way it is now, and accommodated to the degree it has, as well. How people encounter sex influences how people see potential partners. We live in world in which people make billions of swipes on Tinder every day. There is also the possiblity that many women, including very attractive women, are actually dissatisfied with their bodies, because this hook up culture that we have, forces women to compete on levels of attractiveness at a level that women might not feel compelled to, if women were merely competing for the attention of ONE man to keep has a life long partner. When women seek partners, they don't seek the average guy who's into them, but the top tier men, and top tier men only want top tier women when it comes to attractiveness, so there's a lot of both insecurity (hating their own bodies) among women who are not the top 5-10% in attractiveness, and a lot of sour grapes towards the women who are.

The other thing I didn't mention either, was that women enjoying their own attractiveness isn't something that society discourages among women in real life, but it seems to be carrying over to film and the media. I always laugh when watching reviews of Marvel comics and they mention the "marvel approved body type", which is a woman with a boyish figure, no boobs, no butt, nothing. Now, there's nothing wrong rail thin women with more boyish figures, and I know some men love women like this, but there's a general culture of fearing curves, fearing the kinds of women that would traditionally be considered highly sexually desirable. But, the women who lead the campaign against such portrayals of women are feminists, and are probably women who believe in this idea of young women playing the field, not having babies, not seeking a life long partner, but feeling like "if the boys can sow their oats in their youth, why can't the girls?"
But this game of playing the field is way more unkind to women than it is to men, because men will determine based on beauty and youth, whereas women will determine based on personality and wealth, hence a man can keep going even into old age if he has enough money and charm, but a woman loses out relatively early as there's always someone younger and prettier than her.


I personally believe that women should love their bodies and love how they look, because there will always be a man who will love their body as well. But, I'm a big proponent of monogamy. I have one man who thinks I'm beautiful. If other men think I'm beautiful is something I don't care about, because I'm not looking to attract any other man, but the one I have. Of course I want to look good for him. I'm not ONLY happy with the way I look because of him, but I do feel like, if he's happy with my body and my looks, then, so am I. I don't feel compelled to join in with these women who hate their bodies, because, for one thing, I'm not in competition with any other woman, so I don't have to outdo any other woman when it comes to looks, and because I'm content.
 

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I made a post about this year(s) ago on this [site]. If you do not openly hate yourself with low/non-existent self-esteem, that is considered offensive and unnatural. There will be women that attack you for no reason at all because you're tired of hearing that mentally ill "I hate my body, society forces me to hate my body" spam everyday. I would say surround yourself by women that do not whine about this day in and day out and blame the world while simultaneously doing 0 self-improvement work or better their self-esteem and confidence as women outside of all the extra shit. This is incredibly immature, and most girls should be striving to grow out of that teengirl mindset by 20-30s. It's completely fucking weird to say things like, "I hate my body" and we are conditioned to think that's some normal thing to be hearing from women. Like no, that sounds fuckign weird and isn't cute to say. You sound ill. What are doing to work on confidence legitimately that doesn't involved some weird political movement? Not one of these impersonal women march whatever has made me feel any kind of way about myself on a personal level. Usually nothing gets fixed in these women, and there fucking 35 years old still in the same teengirl mindset when it comes to body issues.

Low self-esteem and perpetually abnormal thought patterns in women is considered humility and feminine, and most women have bought into it and think they are functioning at peak health efficiency than they are. That's the biggest garbage I've heard. It also probably comes from some ego-driven male type shit that tends to think mentally unhealthy or mentally ill women with self-hatred are a natural and normal state of a woman and women should strive for it. Part of it is male ignorance regarding what mentally ill actually look like and how these mental disorders manifest in women in comparison to men. She looks "all that" but sometimes the chick has a severe mental disorder and is unstable. Then there highly weird group of women that hate themselves and bodies and cannot communicate anything in adult form to a human man, and that's considered "shy, feminine and cute" like that's normal. Men are most responsive to women that exhibit a fuckton of insecurities and retarded anxieties and social phobias in regard to herself because it's so normalized, when she should be working on overcoming these things just like socially retarded men.
Your conflation and over stating the case is obvious, and I know, especially to you.

You malign the women that fall into this belief pattern and the men that you feel are either the direct or indirect cause of it. But both of these are only immature people.

All men are not like that. There are more mature men out there (than the mean).
All women are not like that. There are more mature women out there (than the mean).

Still a mature woman WILL want to constantly work on her body and any and all other aspects of her self, her wisdom, her maturity. Likewise a mature man will expect it of her. Further, each statement is true in vice versa. Perfection-aiming is moral duty. Perfection-expectation is immoral.
 
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Discussion Starter #49
I think there's another aspect to this situation, that people don't seem comfortable with addressing.

There have been few times in history wherein, not only premarital sex, but casual sex has been normalized the way it is now, and accommodated to the degree it has, as well. How people encounter sex influences how people see potential partners. We live in world in which people make billions of swipes on Tinder every day. There is also the possiblity that many women, including very attractive women, are actually dissatisfied with their bodies, because this hook up culture that we have, forces women to compete on levels of attractiveness at a level that women might not feel compelled to, if women were merely competing for the attention of ONE man to keep has a life long partner. When women seek partners, they don't seek the average guy who's into them, but the top tier men, and top tier men only want top tier women when it comes to attractiveness, so there's a lot of both insecurity (hating their own bodies) among women who are not the top 5-10% in attractiveness, and a lot of sour grapes towards the women who are.

The other thing I didn't mention either, was that women enjoying their own attractiveness isn't something that society discourages among women in real life, but it seems to be carrying over to film and the media. I always laugh when watching reviews of Marvel comics and they mention the "marvel approved body type", which is a woman with a boyish figure, no boobs, no butt, nothing. Now, there's nothing wrong rail thin women with more boyish figures, and I know some men love women like this, but there's a general culture of fearing curves, fearing the kinds of women that would traditionally be considered highly sexually desirable. But, the women who lead the campaign against such portrayals of women are feminists, and are probably women who believe in this idea of young women playing the field, not having babies, not seeking a life long partner, but feeling like "if the boys can sow their oats in their youth, why can't the girls?"
But this game of playing the field is way more unkind to women than it is to men, because men will determine based on beauty and youth, whereas women will determine based on personality and wealth, hence a man can keep going even into old age if he has enough money and charm, but a woman loses out relatively early as there's always someone younger and prettier than her.


I personally believe that women should love their bodies and love how they look, because there will always be a man who will love their body as well. But, I'm a big proponent of monogamy. I have one man who thinks I'm beautiful. If other men think I'm beautiful is something I don't care about, because I'm not looking to attract any other man, but the one I have. Of course I want to look good for him. I'm not ONLY happy with the way I look because of him, but I do feel like, if he's happy with my body and my looks, then, so am I. I don't feel compelled to join in with these women who hate their bodies, because, for one thing, I'm not in competition with any other woman, so I don't have to outdo any other woman when it comes to looks, and because I'm content.

We're having less sex than previous generations. This idea behind hook-up culture, is mostly in the imaginations of other people. I'm an ESTP, supposedly one of the types most likely to be into that, but I'm not on any dating apps and not hooking up with random people I meet. The vast majority of my age group aren't hooking up with strangers they find on tinder. I'm not currently looking for a male life partner. My best friends are my life partners. Those are the relationships that I've nurtured the most. My parents are happily married, but their friendships have lasted longer their 30 year marriage. My priority after friends and family is my career and then, after that is an interest in dating. I don't even know if I want kids yet. I'm not playing the field. I have goals that I'm working towards and men aren't on the list. It's nice for other people if their main priority is settling down and having a family and I support that choice. Is it possible I might miss out on having a family of my own? Yeah, but I can live with that. I know other people much older than me that made similar choices and wouldn't change a thing.

I think women should love our bodies and love how we look because we only get the one body and we need to love ourselves first before we can have anything of value to offer anyone else. Sex is important to me but not my current priority. At some point it would be nice to have a relationship like my parents, but what I see happened there was my mother's career put on hold. At least she made a decent way through her career and had accomplishments that I'm proud of her for. But my eyes are wide open and I recognize that the idea of work life balance just doesn't happen. Especially not for women. And that's fine, I'm not going to demand the world change for me. I accept things are the way they are, prioritize and move along.
 

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I'm not trying to say that you're playing the field, but a lot of young women are, and even when they see a woman who prefers monogamy, if she's prettier than them, they'll see her as nothing more than competition.

I'm not saying anything to try to judge other people's life choices. It's just that I do believe that we've created a society that has way over conflated the importance of physical appearance, so when people care a lot about looks, the less attractive women are more eager to want to attack, judge, or try to bring down very attractive women, especially when they're enjoying the fact that they're attractive.
 

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All men are not like that. There are more mature men out there (than the mean).
All women are not like that. There are more mature women out there (than the mean).
Where did I say all women were like this? It is not just women that trash other women either, lul. Yes women do this, but men do it a fuck ton too. They gossip like women, it just doesn't "look like that". It's framed as man shit talk. People naturally shit talk other people and it is a very common thing, maybe not directly to their face, but they do. I do it myself.

I have had men spread bullshit about me too in bad faith office politics, such as I slept with certain men which never actually happened, and I had to hear this from another guy from the office, just based off of my appearance. But apparently this stuff never happens. It happen(s) frequently, and it is a thing.
 

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No we do not. Any insecurity is exploitable, many or deep insecurities based on all different sorts of trendy models disconnect from depth, read ethics and spirituality. Besides. What is more plausible to happen, for a well fed, hydrated and rest sports woman die because of an infection, or a skinny anorectic bulimic drugaddict model (and those who follow that type of trendiness) to pass on the other side because of the same infection?

So if a perception of what is of value is altered, you can crowcontrol.
 
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