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Discussion Starter #1
ESTJ
organized, group oriented, focused, conventional, leader, emotionally stable, anal, attention seeking, planner, realistic, fearless, responsible, finisher, decisive, norm following, respects authority, punctual, hard working, stiff, self confident, thinks rules and regulations are important, follows the rules, clean, outgoing, social, content, does not like being alone, normal, regular, does not like weird or strange people / things - intolerant of differences, strict, disciplined, aggressive, assertive, content, happy, proper, formal, strict with self, meticulous, strong sense of purpose
favored careers:

executive, ceo, supervisor, business consultant, manager, strategist, financial planner, business person, office manager, public relations manager, international business specialist, business analyst, management consultant, operations manager, loan officer, lawyer, marketing, sports management, government employee, investment banker

disfavored careers:

poet, artist, songwriter, musician, novelist, art therapist, theatre teacher, art curator, film editor, video game designer, photo journalist, travel writer, actor, record store owner, camera operator, art historian, music teacher​
 

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I have a close ESTJ friend, and I agree with this for the most part.

What I don't agree with:
-attention seeking (she only actively seeks attn with people she's reallyyyy comfortable with or when socializing)
-does not like weird or strange people / things - intolerant of differences (she's extremely tolerant, outwardly especially, and finds differences intruiging)

These are SO true: disciplined, assertive, organized, respects authority, meticulous, does not like being alone
 

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I agree, Holly. This is a good description. Is this something that you drew up, or something you found?

There is one thing that I do not completely agree with: emotionally stable. The ESTJ I know is kind of neurotic.
But to your defense, nobody would know that if he didn't say that he's harder on himself than on anyone else.

Ya, soooo not a music teacher :laughing: He couldn't carry a beat or tune with a pair of adhesive gloves.
 

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Things I disagree:
does not like being alone - I love to be alone (especially when I need to organise my stuff or make a list of things to do), though I don't wanna be alone for long time.
normal - ummm... my friends ALWAYS says I'm crazy.


disfavored careers:
songwriter
novelist
film editor
photo journalist
travel writer

I'm a writer (editor, journalist, copywriter, and freelance novelist) :happy:



 
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My ESTJ friend is the most emotionally stable person I know. If you don't find them to be emotionally stable, then I've concluded emotional stability has nothing to do with type. Of course, the more someone is a Thinker, the more emotions are processed/expressed differently from a strong Feeler.

And from experience with ESXJs, I notice that they strive to be interested and good at everything. And it shows in the way they spend their time and energy, constantly picking up new skills, taking private lessons, joining clubs, traveling... The opportunity to go to the theatre would hardly be passed up, unless it was inconvenient in some way.
 
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The description omitted their most obvious traits


Selfish to the core

Always trying to control those around them

And bizarrely large egos. They usually are complete duds physically, mentally and socially but this does not faze them in the least, as they have an ego that constantly overrides the reality of who they really are and this in turn carries them forward

The most unlikable of all the Types

The world would be a better place without them
 

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I am married to one and I would agree with most of the above. When we first met I always called him 'consistently inconsistent'. He was always finding new things to be anal about.
But credit to him, if I bring up some constructive criticism he generally will make an effort to change. He is still ESTJ all over and I am Fe all over. Would agree with the comment 'always telling me that he is harder on himself than anyone else'. If I am just getting the splash over of his harsh standards lucky for me. I would surely die under his hard standards and be left for dead.
He stopped drinking and became an exercise junky. He is the most disciplined person I know when it comes to training. Thank God he focuses more on himself now and not trying to fix ME!!:laughing:
 

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A Mixed Bag

The descriptive terms are fairly accurate, although I do try to work at minimizing the negative aspects of my personality. Oddly enough, I love to write and I have auditioned for a leading role in a play. I love the arts!

I can't speak to Ape's experience with ESTJ's, but I always leave a situation in better shape than I found it. And I have, thrice in my life, donated all my assets to charity; perhaps, selfish is a youthful characteristic that all, who endeavor, grow beyond.

The favored career options are spot on! But, I like the options that you have listed in the disfavored category too. I don't know what this says about me, but I definitely have a creative streak in me. I might suggest that, perhaps, I am not a thoroughbred ESTJ, but I have taken the test more than a handful of times over the past decade, and I have consistently been ranked as an ESTJ each time.

Emotional stability is a tricky one... I am very stable and stress does not affect my work, but I do deal with depression (all my life). The trick for me is to stay engaged, keep working, thinking, moving, never giving in...
 

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I think that as with all personalities, this is a very generalized bag of characteristics. Certainly some people may exhibit more of these trends but it doesn't mean that they are so precise that it's "characteristic" of a personality. I find that with the MBTI, or the big 5, or even the neo personality test is to take every result and generalized principle with a very very big bucket of salt. And that if you are willing to be self-aware you don't need a personality test to tell you what you are.

Emotional stability for instance is a term that is incredibly relative. Some people think it means being happy all the time, some others think it's dealing with your emotions in such a way that it doesn't affect the things around you. For me it's the latter. I can't say that I'm never angry or never upset, but I never let it affect my work.

However this is may be also because I vary from one archetype to another relatively frequently although the ones that I keep reverting back to are I/E STJ and ENTJ.
 

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The description omitted their most obvious traits


Selfish to the core

Always trying to control those around them

And bizarrely large egos. They usually are complete duds physically, mentally and socially but this does not faze them in the least, as they have an ego that constantly overrides the reality of who they really are and this in turn carries them forward

The most unlikable of all the Types

The world would be a better place without them
I hate to say it, but I agree with almost 75% of this. I know 2 people who I'm thinking are ESTJs - at least they totally fit this profile along with the one originally posted. Plus I kind of put 1+2 together when figuring they're super outgoing, hardly ever emotional, aren't the slightest bit of day dreamers (unless they're stoned, which is more often then not, but I don't count that as being apart of who they really are...) and they tend to be a bit self-righteous.

But these two people are totally selfish, have huge egos, are huge attention whores... However, that is just these two people, I'm not saying ALL ESTJs are. And again, I'm not even sure if these 2 people are... just a very good estimation. I wouldn't say that ESTJs the most unlikable of all the types because I don't know all of the types & I don't think that's fair to say... It's all based on your own personality and who you're more likely to get along with. And I totally disagree with the last comment.
 

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I think that people may be mixing selfish with controlling. When you are selfish you care about no one but yourself. ESTJ's are CONTROLLING of people because they CARE. We don't want to people we love to be mean, or get into trouble, or get hurt by making what we consider bad decisions. And yes, no one likes to be controlled, and it is not the best way to show that we care, but selfish? I would completely disagree, ESTJ are one of the types that do the most for people, it is not always in the most direct way. Whatever ESTJ you found that was selfish was either extremely unhealthy or not an ESTJ at all. I would say we can be cocky, but again not selfish.

For example. My friend was drinking too much. He was hanging out with a lot of people that did that a lot, he told me he was depressed, it got to the point where he fell down the stairs and had to go to the hospital. I told him that I was worried about this and he said it didn't matter. Of course I felt a need to control this situation so without his permission I contacted his brother about this. Yes, I could have told him i was doing this, but he probably would have said its no big deal. It was controlling of me, but I felt that I needed to do whatever it took to protect him. And he actually is a lot better now and really appreciates that I had the guts to do that, because apparently none of his other friends did, they thought it would be too controlling. :)


Also, I would say that I like people to be just who they are, and have no problems with strange and weird things. I would disagree with attention seeker. Although we are quite extroverted that does not mean we need to be the center of attention. I don't mind it, but I like to have everyone talking together usually, its awkward if I'm the only one doing everything. And normal is probably not correct, although maybe more like we prefer to do things the usual way? I'm not intolerant of differences either, but I do have a view about what is wrong and right. And happy of course depends on the person. And I'd probably add physical protector and loyal.

I would disagree with some of the disfavored careers as well. All the ESTJ's I know are in some ways artists, as am I. Most of the time though it ends up being a hobby instead.
 

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well, more or less agreed. :) They're nice, but the way they see difference is almost like we're aliens or something.
Not that I care. I still love them, as long as my belief, values, and interest are safe...

ESTJ's are CONTROLLING of people because they CARE. We don't want to people we love to be mean, or get into trouble, or get hurt by making what we consider bad decisions.
"Funny how 'I have your best interest in heart' always involves serving the interests of the person speaking" *


*) Not that ignorance is the answer; but sometimes ESTJs (the ones I know) crossed the line few times too many.
 
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Its probably similar to how you feel about a child who's getting in trouble or may do something that might hurt them. You want to make sure that overall they dont hurt themselves and so you tell them what's right and wrong, and in some cases grab them before they get hit by a car. Of course, the part about parenting that i think ESTJ's have a problem with is letting the children make their own mistakes because for us, like anyone else its very painful to see them hurt.

Obviously adults are not children, and its probably strange that we would then act very similar with friends and family that we would with children. Its the same principle though, its all about being worried your love one will get hurt, its just not always handled in the best manner. I would say where it is extremely successful is in really dangerous situations. I had a friend who was almost suicidal this summer and started drinking and partying way too much. Even to the point where he fell down the stairs and had to go to the hospital. I tried to not be controlling at first and talk to him about it, but he just sort of shrugged it off. Thats where i get really controlling. I needed to know where he was ALL the time and that he wasn't dead somewhere. Eventually i even went behind his back and told his brother what was going on. Was it really controlling? Absolutely. But it was worth it for him to be safe. And he actually even says now that i saved his life, so like everything else there are good and bad sides to it.
 

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And to tahquitz:

I also have an extreme creative side so I'm assuming that is just a part of an ESTJ. I probably have every craft project that exists in my house. I've knitted so many things i cant even remember all of them. In college I was an art minor. I love to play the piano, sing and play the guitar. In high school I did stagecrew, which is building and painting the sets for shows. Art is beautiful to me. Other ESTJ's i know also love to be creative, one actually is probably going to become a famous song writer. So dont worry you're definitely not the only one!
 

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And to tahquitz:

I also have an extreme creative side so I'm assuming that is just a part of an ESTJ. I probably have every craft project that exists in my house. I've knitted so many things i cant even remember all of them. In college I was an art minor. I love to play the piano, sing and play the guitar. In high school I did stagecrew, which is building and painting the sets for shows. Art is beautiful to me. Other ESTJ's i know also love to be creative, one actually is probably going to become a famous song writer. So dont worry you're definitely not the only one!
Art is good mate; however, it is unnecessary. I wasted my high school years going the arts and I wish I could have done something else. You know, if it wasn't for the arts, I would have done so much better in university...
 

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Oh and about the ESTJ's wanting to control everything...it's not that we want to control everything that's around us...it's just that we have a need to control OUR lives. For example, I need to be in complete control of my life and if you are part of my life, you better be ready to be "controlled". I need to be able to follow rules and principles that I have adopted, and if you happen to go against my set of rules, I will tell you to behave. I realize that everyone has their own set of rules and principles...however, I believe my set of rules and principles is superior so I tend to push others who don't share my viewpoints. That's how I do it, and that is the best way to do it.
 
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