Personality Cafe banner

21 - 40 of 53 Posts

·
Registered
INFP
Joined
·
1,489 Posts
I happen to like ESTPs. They can be very charming and fun-loving.
But ESTJs tend to scare me.
I think ESTJs are probably the scariest personality type.
I can't imagine having a relationship with one.
I feel like they think everything about me is wrong and they like to intimidate me and they're just utterly cold. Monotone, no sense of humor whatsoever. and they are big on disciplining even strangers. I would never want to get on an ESTJ's bad side.
My ex-friend's dad was an ESTJ and he would take out things I did on my friend and hold her hostage if I made one misstep.
He NEVER trusted me even though I never gave him any reason to mistrust me.

My ex's father was most likely an ESTJ and since I knew he had weaknesses where I had strengths and I had actually developed my Te quite a bit, I could get him to behave around me, but he was a complete dick to my ex-boyfriend no matter what I did.
He would give me gifts and then berate my ex right afterwards.
I felt really weird about it. I knew if I stood up for my ex, the ESTJ would show his true colors to me and I wouldn't be able to be around him at all.

I feel like he somehow noticed and admired that I used Te but also had a lot of Fi since I was aware of it and that I was the more "developed" person. I guess its because I knew his weakness.

I feel SO lucky none of my close family members are ESTJ. My uncle might be one, but when I stood my ground he backed off because there was nothing he could do to get me to act the way he wanted me to. He also admired my intelligence for a little while [back when I was showing it off in a very Ne way].

The ONLY family member that is allowed to tell me what to do is my father who is a FP.

I feel like ESTJs are what is wrong with this world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,133 Posts
@Lord Pixel

Okay...I foresaw a post like this since the instant I posted this thread, so...

First off, congratulations on overcoming your differences and seeing the good sides of ESTJs. I didn't meant to imply that this relationship was impossible, only that I have had some bad experiences with them myself. My OP was kind of a combination of pent-up Fi-related ranting and exaggeration.

Also, I think that in my case, being a 9 in the Enneagram makes the whole ESTJ "work hard, play hard" attitude more off-putting by default for me than some other INFPs, because Type 9 by definition prefers to slow down and take things easy, and in the less healthy levels can actually think its a good thing to be lazy. :tongue:

Secondly, now that you mention it, I DO think the two people I mentioned were ESTP rather than ESTJ, going by what you said about Ti vs Te brutal honesty.



AMEN to this. It's EXACTLY this kind of personally devaluing feelings and even taking pleasure in causing emotional pain that an INFP will turn from in horror. Even though they develop tertiary Fe later in life, the typical 20-something ExTP often has this kind of schadenfreude in spades, and I cannot stand them. That was what I meant when I said that ESTJs mean no harm, they can just be too harsh and direct with their criticisms sometimes.

I guess the reason I didn't mention ENTPs is because I haven't had as much experience with them, and they at least share some degree of intellectualism and Ne with me, where sometimes it seems that all ESTPs talk about are sports, extreme adventures, and other stuff I just don't care about, on top of all the hurtful jokes and stuff.

I remember a little while back I read a poll thread on here asking what is the meanest MBTI type, and ESTJ was actually in the lead by far. You should quote your above post in that thread if you can find it.
What if I told you....I foresaw you foreseeing this post. Every thread as a counter opinion.

ESTP is the INFP conflictor type and vice versa, we simply just do not get each other in close relations. I think enneagram can soften the conflicts though.

Also they have some type 8w9 ESTJs and probably some type 9w8 ESTJs, and some of them can be lazy too, I understand the stress of "WORK HARD WORK HARD!" because I have 9 in my tri-type and can be stressed out from forcefullness too, I know this is cliche but not every ESTJ is like that to that extreme at least, ESTP also loses respect for anybody who is lazy as well. And yea ESTJ criticisms can hurt but definitely not as much as EXTP criticisms. ESTJ criticism mostly hurts because deep down you know yourself they are right and you have been slacking lol. They access a part of you that you are neglecting. And we do the same to them. maybe I'm just at the point where I'm like "ESTJs are easy." but they are fairly straight forward people, easy to understand and if you work with them they let you know EXACTLY what you need to do so there is no confusion, which makes a job much easier to complete because they have the step by step process laid out. Once you find your way with an ESTJ you've got it because these people are predictable. And ESTJs can get so caught up in work they need someone to remind them life isn't all about work, some of them actually appreciate fun and relaxation, just not as long as us INFPs, because they are different from us. Also age influences relations as well, if you have an ESTJ that is much older than you and tries to take parental role you might get the work hard attitude form them more than an ESTJ your age who isn't at work and just wants to meet people and socialize, that ESTJ might be more up for doing some activity, sharing their opinions about things, might be a little competitive and cracking corny jokes.

I also saw the thread that said ESTJ is the meanest type, and I agree they can be mean, but I said ESTP is the meanest type and some even admitted to being considered bullies. And ESTJ won't physically harm you or abuse you like an ESTP might (I grew up with one for 13 years, it was rough.)

I guess all this really says is meet more ESTJs so you don't get stuck thinking all of them are bad based on a few.

@telepariah
Thank you for that post. This is my experience with ESTJs as well, you can really count on these people and they want to serve the people around them and help better their lives at their best. At their worst the can be bossy and rigid, and maybe some some harsh criticisms, but this is unhealthy behavior and any type that's acting unhealthy is pretty ugly.

And When ESTJs have a moment of Fi, it's like a huge big deal and revelation to them, and a good person to have around them and understand them in those moments would be a high Fi user, because most might look at the ESTj and see them weird because that behavior is unusal for them, and they appreciate someone who does not judge them in those vulnerable moments.

I think people have a sort of misunderstanding that this type sucks all the time lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,133 Posts
as an ESTJ woman, oh my god. THANK YOU. Everything you described here I can imagine my INFP bf feels now that I'm looking at it from your perspective-- it's mind blowingly accurate! I've never had someone so infatuated with me before just BEING ME. I've dated guys that ~THINK~ they want a business type of girl, but they don't-- it scares them lol. But INFPs you are all never afraid because you're seeing way past the surfacey stuff. And if we get you, oh my god, WE GET YOU-- we can make you laugh at any given moment. And also, I would say yeah you do know how to "control" us in a sense when it comes to feelings. But also we kind of do the same to you too ;). So yes, get yourself a sexy stone ESTJ gf!
Lol I shall indeed go get that sexy stone ESTJ gf! lol, Thank you for the encouragement, that was awesome lol.

That's interesting that some guys think they want a business type but really don't because I have been the opposite most of my life, admiring from afar but always denying that I wanted that lol even in the middle of being attracted, like a resistance that says "mmmmmmmmmmm,NO!" lol, I give in now. Yea I realize ESTJ can make me laugh, in weird ways too, sometimes it's just them quoting some catch phrase from a movie in an appropriate moment. Or when some older ESTJs say older catch phrases they used in the past, I have no idea why but it causes gut level laughter for me lol. It is very comforting to be liked for the way you are, I've always felt like girls I was with wanted me to be tougher or more aggressive and it feels like I've been hired for a job yI am not good at lol. When I dated girls that liked my humor and witty banter I was like a fish in water, and ESTJs can get all the witty stuff and it's an awesome time when someone gets that. And yea well the way you guys control us is more obvious and out in the open lol but some ESTJs I've noticed do have a sneaky indirect way of hinting suggestions to you too lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
134 Posts
Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
@Lord Pixel

On the meanest type thread, I said that I feel like ENTJs are the scariest personality type (as in, most intimidating to me), and ESTPs are the meanest type (as in mean-spirited).

By the way...My Mom and Dad are INTJ and ESFP respectively, and although they made it to 11 years before finally divorcing, I can tell you that what ultimately broke them up was the very thing that attracted them in the first place - how different they were from each other. When I asked each of them individually what led them to divorce, both of them told me about feeling like the other was being difficult on purpose, as well as feeling like the other could often set a bad example for me (I definitely felt like I got plenty of mixed signals from them about appropriate behavior and whatnot). Even as early as when I was a toddler, fights between the two of them were common and hushed up.

So I know for a fact that Duality relationships do not always work out in the end. :wink:

Oh, and I can also tell you that many INFs are among those most fervently opposed to President Trump (an ESTP), because from their point of view, he literally embodies all that they resent in this world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: L P

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,133 Posts
@Lord Pixel

On the meanest type thread, I said that I feel like ENTJs are the scariest personality type (as in, most intimidating to me), and ESTPs are the meanest type (as in mean-spirited).

By the way...My Mom and Dad are INTJ and ESFP respectively, and although they made it to 11 years before finally divorcing, I can tell you that what ultimately broke them up was the very thing that attracted them in the first place - how different they were from each other. When I asked each of them individually what led them to divorce, both of them told me about feeling like the other was being difficult on purpose, as well as feeling like the other could often set a bad example for me (I definitely felt like I got plenty of mixed signals from them about appropriate behavior and whatnot). Even as early as when I was a toddler, fights between the two of them were common and hushed up.

So I know for a fact that Duality relationships do not always work out in the end. :wink:

Oh, and I can also tell you that many INFs are among those most fervently opposed to President Trump (an ESTP), because from their point of view, he literally embodies all that they resent in this world.
Yea, I mean, whose to say duality is guaranteed to work out in the long run, or any relationship for that matter. I never been in a duality relationship, only friendships, so I imagine the problems are different. I'm just defending the fact that ESTJs and INFPs can get along despite first impressions. And INFs despising Trump makes sense, such is the nature of opposites, they are many of the things you do not like or do not wish to acknowledge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
For a relationship or anything in really close proximity, I don't think so. My brother is an ESTJ. We got along when we were kids because we'd act silly together (common Ne). But as he grew up, he became much more serious and we butt heads ALOT. So much so that I decided to literally not talk to him for two years. We are not close at all, in fact I don't even know him very well as a person, but I can only guess by actions he has made and our past experiences.

I realized ESTJs and INFPs just have very different styles of communication. ESTJs can be very blunt, and to me, it always came off as unnecessary and hurtful, but I realize now that I'd get upset over his tone despite him not even saying anything objectively rude. This part wasn't his fault, we are just too different. I also realized I wasn't very fair to him in the past. I always criticized him about how he 'should' be doing this, this, and that. Or like judging his interests in cars and stuff I didn't understand. I acted like I was better than him or that he should change, but he can't change himself anymore than I can. I think we should all try to remember to accept people for who they are. I've always had a really bad habit of being too judgmental.

ESTJs in general can be good friends for INFPs. In my experience, they aren't the robots that they are painted out to be, they are actually quite sensitive, but it's hard for them to express any of that the way that we do. I've also noticed they're easy to read, despite their lack of emotional expression.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,786 Posts
Fi mental function prioritizes subjective personal values over group values. Basically, if an INFP thinks that the group is wrong, then they won't play along.

ESTJs use Te which is the mental function that prioritizes group order over personal beliefs. Te creates systems and rules that the ESTJ believes will be the most good for the most people.

Fi's thinks ESTJ are being sticklers and show no concern for the individual for not being flexible with the rules.

Te's thinks INFPs are being selfish and inconsiderate only thinking about their own comfort and convenience for not following the rules that were set up to benefit the tribe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
I think the whole opposites attract thing is more false than people want to admit.

Opposites can attract each other physically. It can be very attractive to want to try and learn new things, to branch outside the box, especially in the early honeymoon stage.

But for long term compatibility, most people connect through things they have in common. Serious relationships require similar communication styles, ways of thinking, ways of connecting.

An INFP may be intrigued by an ESTJ early on, but once the relationship becomes serious...I feel like there would be too much difference in communication. The two may end up getting annoyed with each other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,133 Posts
Fi mental function prioritizes subjective personal values over group values. Basically, if an INFP thinks that the group is wrong, then they won't play along.

ESTJs use Te which is the mental function that prioritizes group order over personal beliefs. Te creates systems and rules that the ESTJ believes will be the most good for the most people.

Fi's thinks ESTJ are being sticklers and show no concern for the individual for not being flexible with the rules.

Te's thinks INFPs are being selfish and inconsiderate only thinking about their own comfort and convenience for not following the rules that were set up to benefit the tribe.
Yea this can happen but this is assuming INFP and ESTJ are only their first function.

INFPs have Te and can recognize that these rules help things have structure that keeps things around us together and working. Though we may not know how to set up those structures up ourselves. So that's where the appreciation of Te comes in when someone can set them up.

and ESTJs have Fi and can recognize keeping good relations with individuals makes for a better running environment but they also might not know how to maintain individual relations with people, so once again appreciation for skilled Fi.

It's not easy to understand someone so backwards from you and it is a challenge, but when you see someone having troubles that you are skilled in dealing you become an asset to them and when you have troubles they deal with easily you recognize this person as an asset as well, and you can also learn a great deal on out to deal with your problems from watching someone skilled deal with them, it can rub off on you, simply because you have the capacity to understand their use of Si-Te, you only prefer to use and prioritize it less, until you are stressed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,786 Posts
Yea this can happen but this is assuming INFP and ESTJ are only their first function.

INFPs have Te and can recognize that these rules help things have structure that keeps things around us together and working. Though we may not know how to set up those structures up ourselves. So that's where the appreciation of Te comes in when someone can set them up.

and ESTJs have Fi and can recognize keeping good relations with individuals makes for a better running environment but they also might not know how to maintain individual relations with people, so once again appreciation for skilled Fi.

It's not easy to understand someone so backwards from you and it is a challenge, but when you see someone having troubles that you are skilled in dealing you become an asset to them and when you have troubles they deal with easily you recognize this person as an asset as well, and you can also learn a great deal on out to deal with your problems from watching someone skilled deal with them, it can rub off on you, simply because you have the capacity to understand their use of Si-Te, you only prefer to use and prioritize it less, until you are stressed.
INFPs have inferior Te and that works differently than dominant Te. Inferior functions, according to Jung, start out as mostly unconscious balances to the dominant function.

Under stress, INFPs start relying heavily on their dominant Fi and so Fi becomes over-exaggerated. Te balloons to compensate and it starts exhibiting as unconscious unhealthy expressions of Te.

Some symptoms of over-exaggerated Te inferior:
- the strong need to do something but it's not well directed so it can end up as cleaning binges or obsessive behavior.
- overly critical of other people
- wanting to do everything yourself because you can't trust anyone else to do it right

Healthy development of the inferior doesn't happen automatically. It has to be systematically developed over time. That's why INFPs don't get along with Te dominants. There's little understanding of what Te actually does or how it frames the world-view.

INFPs don't appreciate Te until they get older and realize that haven't really made any of their dreams come true. ESTJs don't appreciate Fi until they're older and realize they don't really know who they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,133 Posts
INFPs have inferior Te and that works differently than dominant Te. Inferior functions, according to Jung, start out as mostly unconscious balances to the dominant function.


Yea, you can see that unconscious balance when an Fi dom is around a Te dom, usually to get to a good equal balance is where the conflicts stem from, both ends of the see-saw are trying to push themselves up. INFPs use inf. Te but can recognize good use of Te and appreciate it in other's because they are not good at it themselves. It can be like someone taking a load off your back. I think this is easily noticeable when you have a problem that could be easily solved with Te, but you are confused how to go about it, if you get advice from a Te dom it can be like a "Wow why didn't I think of that." moment. Socionics calls the inferior function the suggestive function, we seek Te information to better our lives, and we receive information from this function well when it drives and complements our dom function. When we try to Te ourselves it can exhaust us, being around Te users can make us feel secure for lack of a better word, unless we are at conflict with them which might usually come from discussing worldviews and trying to get the other to fully understand or accept out worldviews.



QUOTE=infpblog;42400427]
Under stress, INFPs start relying heavily on their dominant Fi and so Fi becomes over-exaggerated. Te balloons to compensate and it starts exhibiting as unconscious unhealthy expressions of Te.


Some symptoms of over-exaggerated Te inferior:
- the strong need to do something but it's not well directed so it can end up as cleaning binges or obsessive behavior.
- overly critical of other people
- wanting to do everything yourself because you can't trust anyone else to do it right
[/QUOTE]

Yea an INFP in stress looks like a try hard ESTJ and vice versa for ESTJ. They over-react in ways that you normally act like, so their issue when they or we are stressed often looks silly and sometimes "cute" to the opposite, because the other is handling something so poorly that we find naturally easy to deal with ourselves. That capacity to understand the other in moments of stress is when that person becomes a major asset to the other. Just when you feel over your head in a problem they have a clearer head about it and can see it simply.


QUOTE=infpblog;42400427]
Healthy development of the inferior doesn't happen automatically. It has to be systematically developed over time. That's why INFPs don't get along with Te dominants. There's little understanding of what Te actually does or how it frames the world-view.[/QUOTE]

INFPs don't get along with Te dominants? That's not a hard fast rule and even on this forum you can find exceptions to that.

I don't know about systematic development, it's probably just more exposure to environments and people that use your inf. function.
I'm not sure if it's little understanding of what Te does as understanding it seems pretty straight forward, I think the jarring and conflicting aspect is when you see that the other uses your inf function to develop their worldview. Relating to Te worldview might be next to impossible for an INFP and vice versa for ESTJ, simply because it seems to prioritize and de-priotize what's unimportant and whats important to the other person.


QUOTE=infpblog;42400427]
INFPs don't appreciate Te until they get older and realize that haven't really made any of their dreams come true. ESTJs don't appreciate Fi until they're older and realize they don't really know who they are.[/QUOTE]

I agree that the appreciation manifests that way, but I think it's more like INFPs don't appreciate Te in themselves until older, or appreciate using it themselves, and same for ESTJ. But it can be appreciated in other's at earlier ages.

I'd say simply put they can help and hate each other. Help each deal with what the other sucks at, hate each other because they can't always agree on what's important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
I don't really see it working.Though my friend typed istj and we got along well. Seeing a relationship with a estj sounds a little hard to manage and I could see some hate
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
I happen to like ESTPs. They can be very charming and fun-loving.
But ESTJs tend to scare me.
I think ESTJs are probably the scariest personality type.
I can't imagine having a relationship with one.
I feel like they think everything about me is wrong and they like to intimidate me and they're just utterly cold. Monotone, no sense of humor whatsoever. and they are big on disciplining even strangers. I would never want to get on an ESTJ's bad side.
My ex-friend's dad was an ESTJ and he would take out things I did on my friend and hold her hostage if I made one misstep.
He NEVER trusted me even though I never gave him any reason to mistrust me.

My ex's father was most likely an ESTJ and since I knew he had weaknesses where I had strengths and I had actually developed my Te quite a bit, I could get him to behave around me, but he was a complete dick to my ex-boyfriend no matter what I did.
He would give me gifts and then berate my ex right afterwards.
I felt really weird about it. I knew if I stood up for my ex, the ESTJ would show his true colors to me and I wouldn't be able to be around him at all.

I feel like he somehow noticed and admired that I used Te but also had a lot of Fi since I was aware of it and that I was the more "developed" person. I guess its because I knew his weakness.

I feel SO lucky none of my close family members are ESTJ. My uncle might be one, but when I stood my ground he backed off because there was nothing he could do to get me to act the way he wanted me to. He also admired my intelligence for a little while [back when I was showing it off in a very Ne way].

The ONLY family member that is allowed to tell me what to do is my father who is a FP.

I feel like ESTJs are what is wrong with this world.
This makes me very sad :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
397 Posts
Lol I shall indeed go get that sexy stone ESTJ gf! lol, Thank you for the encouragement, that was awesome lol.

That's interesting that some guys think they want a business type but really don't because I have been the opposite most of my life, admiring from afar but always denying that I wanted that lol even in the middle of being attracted, like a resistance that says "mmmmmmmmmmm,NO!" lol, I give in now. Yea I realize ESTJ can make me laugh, in weird ways too, sometimes it's just them quoting some catch phrase from a movie in an appropriate moment. Or when some older ESTJs say older catch phrases they used in the past, I have no idea why but it causes gut level laughter for me lol. It is very comforting to be liked for the way you are, I've always felt like girls I was with wanted me to be tougher or more aggressive and it feels like I've been hired for a job yI am not good at lol. When I dated girls that liked my humor and witty banter I was like a fish in water, and ESTJs can get all the witty stuff and it's an awesome time when someone gets that. And yea well the way you guys control us is more obvious and out in the open lol but some ESTJs I've noticed do have a sneaky indirect way of hinting suggestions to you too lol.
ugh don't tell me my bf can read my mind! it's scary lol.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
15,154 Posts
I want to make a joke that involves the word "Titanic" , but I shall be properly mannered in this thread. I will follow all rules of polite decorum.

Usually, I have experienced, that.... opposites attract, but they do not last. Of course, and as usual, I speak only for my relationships.
 
21 - 40 of 53 Posts
Top