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Do you believe in Fate/Destiny?
or some kind of "Higher Power" (many would term it as "God", although not necessarily have to be like in religions' descriptions) that perhaps we humans can't comprehend, that work 'mysteriously' in determining each of our fate, from our birth until we return to dust?
And how about freewill?
can two of them actually work hand-in-hand simultaneously?
 

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I know there are things beyond what our five senses can percieve, sharks for example can sense electric currents that we can't, so there is no reason to think that other invisible forces couldn't be there.

I do "believe" in Destiny/Karma because I see it as the whole network of action/reaction, cause/consequence that it is. When you start to think what previous events caused something you could stretch yourself to the begining of everything. It's not that there was no choice, the choice was made long before you were even aware.
 

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I'm a hard determinist -- everything is pre-determined based on an antecedent casual chain of events. This coincides well with my Soulmate belief (meant to be together), but also revolves around the Chaos Theory of everything being interconnected.

In some ways, this helps me alleviate the anger I would have towards certain types of people because I believe they are a byproduct of those forces.

For example,
Let's say someone commits a crime and kills 5 people.
A determinist takes a broader scope and creates links as to "why" or "how" this happened for the purpose of understanding.
A Free-Will follower is really just looking at scientific facts to prove that this individual did indeed commit the crime. Basically, guilty or not guilty.

For this, and many other reasons, I believe I have more "free"dom through awareness, but additionally, the ability to exonerate myself from certain forms of guilt or self-criticism. I am who I am :D.
 

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I think fate puts you in situation, and you have the free will to make decisions which in turn lead you down a path. Sometime when i get a bit up in my head i think my life is governed by some sort of narritve purpose, like certain things(usually bad things) had to happen because they are just part of the story. it may sounds like a bit of a cop out but generally when good things happen i consider it my fault, and when bad stuff happens it isn't my fault. If there is a God they aren't playing a direct role, She built a world the is supposed to make sense and divine intervention doesn't really fit.
 

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@Lad

your post made me think a bit, as usual i took a very subjective perspective. got me to thinking does fate affect diffrent people in diffrent ways, like people who don't think critically as much and are generally more content with their lives maybe they had less decisions presented to them by fate.
 
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I don't know if I believe in the text book definition of Fate, but I do believe that my life is guided. How and by who? I have no idea. But I do know that sometimes a series of highly unlikely events work at pushing me in a certain direction, to be in a certain place at a certain time, and they're quite inexplicable. Let's say (this is all hypothetical) you're sleeping and then suddenly you awake and can't go back to sleep. You decide to go out for a drive, late at night, and you end up on a lonely road and you suddenly run out of gas when you know you had a full tank that morning. You walk to a house to ask for help and there's a dead body on the floor and nobody else. Suddenly the police arrive and begin asking you questions. Very Kafkaesque. How do you explain how you arrived there? I suppose most INFPs have similar stories.

I often wonder how much of what we see or experience happens in the real world and how much happens inside of our heads. Dumbledore said, "Of course it's all in your head, Harry. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening in the real world too."

If we both go to see a Superman flick, we will both agree that we're seeing a flying man. But is the man really flying? This is like Jimmy Olsen saying to Superman, "Have you realised that we're not really Olsen and Superman, but two actors repeating lines from a script?" And Superman replying, "And have you realised that we're not even flesh and blood? We're merely a 2D light image projected on a screen." Have you ever seen The Truman Show? Obviously, I'm getting around to Holographic Universe because it's that time of night.

Are we merely sitting in a library somewhere with VR glasses and experiencing events which appear extremely real to us? It makes more sense than trying to explain how we humans could have evolved faster than is mathematically possible. Who's creating our reality? Our "higher" selves? Humans from the future coming back in time to speed up progress? Some Supreme Being? For what purpose? Did I really end up in a house with a dead body or did someone else imagine it and placed the memory in my head? What we imagine to be fate could be, in reality, merely electrical impulses in our brain.

For many centuries the Hindus have believed that we live in a world of illusion. How do we see behind the illusion? Through Zen and satori, perhaps? Zen masters say, "You are not born and you do not die." It's tremendously freeing to believe this. But it also robs us of opportunities to fully experience emotions and learning situations. It's like getting the answer sheet before exams.

Somehow I suspect this is not the sort of reply you were seeking, so I'll stop here.
 

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I will take the seemingly absurd stance that both freewill and determinism exist for us. I had an epiphany about it a few months ago and will attempt to convey my thoughts into words.

For all intents and purposes we experience the wonders of freewill in which we have the ability to make choices and cannot predict the future. On the flipside, the chain of events that unfold in this physical reality are based on specific cause & effect laws that must happen in a very specific way and cannot be altered. Even our own thoughts are cause & effect as much as we would like to deny it.

We have the unique situation of seeing existence as more than it is. This is the joy of "time". Think of it as the difference of knowing the outcome of a football game vs. watching the game in its entirety. The result is the same, but watching the game gives you more information about the thing that is "the game".

If we see all that is as "the game", we know there is only one outcome and it cannot be changed, but we can experience what happens and see WHY it happens.

In a way, we are here to understand who we are... and we are all that is. Who are "we", though? Everyone and everything, from a pebble of sand at the bottom of the ocean to the furthest galaxies we haven't even discovered yet.

If this goes against your own beliefs, please don't take offense. These are my opinions.
 

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I did once strongly believe in fate, destiny and karma, cause and effect etc. I would consult astrology, tarot, numerology, runes, whatever other "sign" I could find to give me direction and clarity as to which path to take and discover the truth. At times I have had some amazing psychic-type events occur which reinforce my opinion that fate is at work and supernatural forces are just a given. I do believe this. But I have chosen not to attempt to uncover the future and calculate which path is the correct one that I was destined to take anymore because I have found it crippling to do so. What if I make a mistake and take the wrong path? How will I know? I do feel like I am supposed to be here on this planet for some reason, damned if I know what it is, but it can’t be to work a mundane job, buy a bigger t.v. and pay for insurance.
I now prefer to trust my intuition and synchronicity plays a big part as well. I am really trying to see the opportunities which are presenting themselves to me and using signs to guide my choices. I am more going with the flow although I give those flows a considerable amount of thought (obviously). I think that there are so many options available to us in this world that it is just so overwhelming. I get overwhelmed with these possibilities, I could have numerous destinies depending on an incalculable number of chosen options made throughout my life. How can you not go wrong somewhere along the way? Is it then for us to bring our choices back to the original destined path or are we damned. To walk aimlessly unfulfilled ? Surely not, I can’t buy that, therefore I believe in both fate, spiritual guidance or what ever you may like to call it, but I also believe that free will is a factor too.
 

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Every human has the same fate...to grow old and die.

What you do with your life till that moment depends on you. Certain things in life will push you towards a certain fate, but you still have the free will to push back and do what you want.

This is my opinion.
 

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I did once strongly believe in fate, destiny and karma, cause and effect etc. I would consult astrology, tarot, numerology, runes, whatever other "sign" I could find to give me direction and clarity as to which path to take and discover the truth. At times I have had some amazing psychic-type events occur which reinforce my opinion that fate is at work and supernatural forces are just a given. I do believe this. But I have chosen not to attempt to uncover the future and calculate which path is the correct one that I was destined to take anymore because I have found it crippling to do so. What if I make a mistake and take the wrong path? How will I know? I do feel like I am supposed to be here on this planet for some reason, damned if I know what it is, but it can’t be to work a mundane job, buy a bigger t.v. and pay for insurance.
I now prefer to trust my intuition and synchronicity plays a big part as well. I am really trying to see the opportunities which are presenting themselves to me and using signs to guide my choices. I am more going with the flow although I give those flows a considerable amount of thought (obviously). I think that there are so many options available to us in this world that it is just so overwhelming. I get overwhelmed with these possibilities, I could have numerous destinies depending on an incalculable number of chosen options made throughout my life. How can you not go wrong somewhere along the way? Is it then for us to bring our choices back to the original destined path or are we damned. To walk aimlessly unfulfilled ? Surely not, I can’t buy that, therefore I believe in both fate, spiritual guidance or what ever you may like to call it, but I also believe that free will is a factor too.
Let's say you're going to drive to a vacation spot. Don't you naturally check the weather forecasts, traffic cams, etc to see if it's safe? Would you find it agonising? If the forecast said "tornadoes this weekend" would you agonise whether you were meant to go or postpone your weekend? Is that any different to checking your cards or runes to see if you should take a different route?

I'll admit that I don't map out my future but go along willy-nilly "walking aimlessly" as you say, but certainly not unfulfilled. Somebody here has a sig, "Not everyone who wanders is lost" which may be a Christian thing, but I choose to take it literally. I think a good life is one like a good meal, with a little of everything - sweet, sour, bitter, hot, cold - all in moderation. A life without love is as shallow as a life without hate. The quest for "happiness" is not only futile but misleading as we count only the few moments in an entire lifetime as having been worthwhile while discounting all the valuable moments that made us who we are and who we are to the people we love. If you never had a moment of sadness you couldn't empathise or understand when your child comes to you for solace because her pet died. I'm not saying we should go looking for trouble as we look for happiness, but sorrow is a part of life and we could learn to embrace those times as also being valuable and even essential, which is why I don't bother too much about the future.
That's my not-so-humble opinion. :happy:
 

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A fitting dialogue from The Matrix Reloaded:

The Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time.
Neo: Then why can't I see what happens to her?
The Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand.
Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?
The Oracle: No, you've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.
Neo: No. I can't do that. I won't.
The Oracle: Well, you have to.
Neo: Why?
The Oracle: Because you're the One.

Neo: But if you already know, how can I make a choice?
The Oracle: Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand *why* you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now.
 

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Thanks Aurum. I'd watched Reloaded before but dismissed it as being "lightweight" as compared with the first Matrix. I'll go watch it again now.
 

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Thanks Aurum. I'd watched Reloaded before but dismissed it as being "lightweight" as compared with the first Matrix. I'll go watch it again now.
Reloaded is actually my favorite of the trilogy. The fight scene with the multiple Smiths and then the freeway chase scene were both just awesome. I also enjoyed that dialogue with the Oracle and then the Architect. It confused me at first, but after watching it a few times, it began to make sense.
 

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99%: Man (or woman) is in charge, responsible for their lives, path, choices.
1%: "shit happens out of The Blue", viruses, cancers, mental illnesses take over someone's life.

I reserve the right to change my opinion about these %'s, in the future. IOW, I might be wrong.
 

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Very often, I sit on a bus or a sidewalk cafe and watch the masses hurrying, going to work, going home, going who-knows-where. I know they're people with lives and families, problems and joys, but I cannot help feeling that they're not real people. They're born and they die, and in those few short moments between, they have no idea what their lives are about, no purpose other than make money and raise children. I know that sounds horribly arrogant of me, as if my life were any different, but that's how I feel. My life has been largely free of major troubles healthwise and I've been lucky (and grateful) enough to do mostly what I like (which seems to be composed of idle thoughts) which apparently gives me a different (I wouldn't say selfish though it seems so) perspective on life. Many of my friends with "mapped and successful" lives often confide that they're dreadfully unhappy in their chosen careers and if they could start over they would choose different paths but felt locked in mid-stream. I have to say that I'm very happy with my unmapped life and I wouldn't change a moment of it.
 

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I would hate to believe in destiny and predestination - it is like we do not have a choice than to live as we live. I do believe that each of us is unrepeatable, unique, special, and a purposeful human being. What we do we those gifts given is up to us.
On the other hand, one cannot help being born in a certain culture, family, socio-economic status, country - all of this somewhat determines who we are and possible pathways that we might take. Still, we are given free will to decide whether the circumstances we are born in and endure during the life dictate our path, or we are the ones who try to change their influences. Sometimes, this is very hard. That is why we have Hope. I think that a spiritual direction is given, but not everyone is listening to such call. God, universe, whatever your belief systems calls it, does influence us in a spiritual way but only when we want to, he or it does not push and make you to believe what you do not want to believe. God is not micromanaging our particular lives - a lot of things bad or good happens to bad or good people by chance alone. If Karma existed many hidden Nazis and war criminals would be punished a long time ago or as soon as they did their evil. I believe we live in some kind of an organized chaos - which forces are not still understood by me, but a lot of things happen due to our own choices not only to us but to rest of the world. We are all connected by such choices despite how far we live from each other.
 

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What I'm thinking of is prolly twine
made up of many pieces of string. This twine is part of a something, we can say a kite.

Doesn't matter if some of the strings of the twine might break, due to weather
as long as at least one piece is still holding. The kite flies.

Meaning that if a person is born within an experiment, secluded to a plain room, no interaction, no colors, no music or touch.
Only that there is at least one person who keeps their life intact with substance such as food and water care.

The person secluded still has chance to enhance a world without much to do with it,
just by simply having one other soul to interact with
who might possibly spread the influence on.

Twine can be thick or frayed, but it has the ability to help a kite to the air, by being attached.
Just a nice piece of fate, of humanity to think about.
I hold on to kite.
 
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What I'm thinking of is prolly twine
made up of many pieces of string. This twine is part of a something, we can say a kite.

Doesn't matter if some of the strings of the twine might break, due to weather
as long as at least one piece is still holding. The kite flies.

Meaning that if a person is born within an experiment, secluded to a plain room, no interaction, no colors, no music or touch.
Only that there is at least one person who keeps their life intact with substance such as food and water care.

The person secluded still has chance to enhance a world without much to do with it,
just by simply having one other soul to interact with
who might possibly spread the influence on.

Twine can be thick or frayed, but it has the ability to help a kite to the air, by being attached.
Just a nice piece of fate, of humanity to think about.
I hold on to kite.
So, you're not a gypsy or Bohemian or Prussian as I thought, SLD!

I share your thoughts. I too fly kites. I like to fly them with the lightest line possible. Anyone can fly with Spectra or Spider (horribly expensive, very strong, like a Platinum card) but where's the fun in that? If my kite reaches altitude, flies well and comes back safely to earth on thread, it's more of an accomplishment and says something about my skill as a kitemaker and kiteflyer than another flyer with a greater safety margin, n'est-ce pas?

To mod: we're still on-topic here! SLD will understand me if nobody else does.
 

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Always a great question because it's one of those things that makes flesh out a lot of your instincts and intuitions on the matter. Historically speaking it is also a great question in that arena as well. With everything it's all about how you define it and how much significance you put on it. Taken from my life, I don't subscribe to the typical "destiny." I believe we certainly have interests and values that will have a huge influence on what we will do and the effects of those decisions. As a small as example, you love drawing, well saying you are destined to draw a picture is kind of obvious. Hindsight is not recognizing destiny either, as it could have gone either way based on your decisions and only looks nice and neat looking back. But I think the real reason that I don't believe in the standard definition of destiny is I have experienced very cruel things in life, i.e. a convoy I was supposed to go on gets hit with an IED and people die. It could have been me very easily. Or my son has been born with a birth defect. I know people who are dead now, lived with them, served with them, to think for a moment they were destined to die is ridiculous. They were all better men then I am, to know people that closely and see how dumb luck can rip them away, tear holes in the heart of their families, all because they were at a particular location in time, and that is it. I mentioned choices can explain destiny, I think that is the most important. You have to have the courage to decide that your interest in drawing enables you to actually draw. To walk out into the world and follow your heart, your values, etc. I think the matrix quote of "We are all here to do what we are all here to do." Is wonderful and true. But that means you have to DO IT. Nothing is written out ahead of time. And life can come along and do unspeakably cruel things to you. But you have to carry the courage to go out anyway. Hope and courage. Life will be the bitch that is always is, but you will swim against the tide and meet great people, see great things, and experience things you were "meant" to, just like you were "meant" to draw that picture. But that just what I think, lol.
 
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