[Alaya]

When I look at "normal" people going about their lives doing exactly what everyone else is doing it makes me wonder if that path of doing what's normal leads to a better and more productive life. What I mean by normal is that you hold a really focused philosophy of what you're supposed to do in life: you are born, you mature, you reproduce and die, that's the "normal" cycle of life. In addition, most people tend to devote their lives in a god that promises them a rich heaven after they die, in my opinion, that makes life easier to cope with when you have an external source of salvation, that if you do such and such thing, you're going to get such and such thing as a result. People are confident in that regard and gives them comfort, so they continue their lives as best as they can.

Then comes people like me who do nothing but look around and wonder what's the point in life because they get so stuck in their heads and realize that life is not so clear cut as a person in the description above make it out to be. You see through every contingency in the logic of others, and as a result, people tend to think you're weird and deluded. You start to make no sense at all and because of it, you become more and more of a recluse. Unfortunately, there's nothing these people can do, you can only put a persona to mask your inherent unconventionality so you can more or less interact with people. Another thing that makes life more difficult with people like me(atheism) is that you have to put another task on your shoulders of finding your own purpose in life without the aid of an external guide. You have to navigate yourself through the vast ocean of finding a unique truth for yourself to justify your own existence and why you're even here on this planet.

Which path have you chosen for yourself? Or any thoughts on the matter

Edit: I'm sorry if I'm not making any sense, but as you can see, I took the latter path.

 

[Ethanol]

Well I was born and raised a Christian and still am.

However I do understand what you're talking about (when it comes to atheism). I often wonder how atheists cope with life in terms of finding that purpose for living.

For me my belief and religion, though it is nice to know that there's a place after this, I still see it as a set of instructions on how to live a good long life on this earth.

I believe that a thoughtless life is not worth living, and a life without action isn't really a life fulfilled. As many people on this forum have said before, it's about balancing those two. Don't be so caught up in your head that you forget to live life. Set some goals for yourself and celebrate your successes. Take a step back and think about it all... come out of your shell and do it all over again. <--- that's been my approach as of a lately, and I really am happy to see that I've made a few steps forward to my goals. It's a nice feeling, that you're going somewhere.

 

[Alaya]

Well I was born and raised a Christian and still am.

However I do understand what you're talking about (when it comes to atheism). I often wonder how atheists cope with life in terms of finding that purpose for living.

For me my belief and religion, though it is nice to know that there's a place after this, I still see it as a set of instructions on how to live a good long life on this earth.

I believe that a thoughtless life is not worth living, and a life without action isn't really a life fulfilled. As many people on this forum have said before, it's about balancing those two. Don't be so caught up in your head that you forget to live life. Set some goals for yourself and celebrate your successes. Take a step back and think about it all... come out of your shell and do it all over again. <--- that's been my approach as of a lately, and I really am happy to see that I've made a few steps forward to my goals. It's a nice feeling, that you're going somewhere.

Like I always say to all believers, "cherish your faith" because although it's something personally I don't abide to, I've seen many people literally "saved" by becoming devoted to a god.

Another pointers that you mentioned such as accomplishing your goals is really a good advice. Like you said, there's nothing like feeling you accomplished something from your own merit, I've been there and it does really give you a boost in confidence and gives life more meaning. It's the same when I'm playing a video game, and I'm very excited of beating it but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter but that doesn't mean you didn't enjoy it. Maybe it's a bad analogy but I sometimes refer to this when i'm feeling joyful of having accomplished things. "It doesn't really matter, but I had fun" :laughing:

 

[StarryNight]

Well I was born and raised a Christian and still am.

However I do understand what you're talking about (when it comes to atheism). I often wonder how atheists cope with life in terms of finding that purpose for living.

For me my belief and religion, though it is nice to know that there's a place after this, I still see it as a set of instructions on how to live a good long life on this earth.

I believe that a thoughtless life is not worth living, and a life without action isn't really a life fulfilled. As many people on this forum have said before, it's about balancing those two. Don't be so caught up in your head that you forget to live life. Set some goals for yourself and celebrate your successes. Take a step back and think about it all... come out of your shell and do it all over again. <--- that's been my approach as of a lately, and I really am happy to see that I've made a few steps forward to my goals. It's a nice feeling, that you're going somewhere.

I agree with her completely.

I would also like to say that there was a time in my life where I didn't know what I believed in, and the more I'd think about it, the more lost I became...and I was raised Christian. To find purpose in this life for yourself it's something that has to find you (if that makes any sense)...as if it dawns on you, and that's what happened to me. The more you stress on what is considered "normal" by others and what they do, and quite frankly I don't think anyone is completely normal, the more it'll eat at you. Just try to enjoy life as Ethanol stated, and hopefully down the road it'll come to you, because sometimes it takes longer for others.

Hope I helped :happy:

 

[Ethanol]

Like I always say to all believers, "cherish your faith" because although it's something personally I don't abide to, I've seen many people literally "saved" by becoming devoted to a god.

Another pointers that you mentioned such as accomplishing your goals is really a good advice. Like you said, there's nothing like feeling you accomplished something from your own merit, I've been there and it does really give you a boost in confidence and gives life more meaning. It's the same when I'm playing a video game, and I'm very excited of beating it but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter but that doesn't mean you didn't enjoy it. Maybe it's a bad analogy but I sometimes refer to this when i'm feeling joyful of having accomplished things. "It doesn't really matter, but I had fun" :laughing:

LOL I find it funny you compared that to a video game. I gave up on MMORPGs all together because it was sucking all of the time out of my ACTUAL life. Oh man.. one of my really good friends is addicted to MMORPGs and it's really really sad watching how time flies by and they're still stuck in a room playing this retarded game that isn't even real life. I gave up on MMORPGs, but I do need to start playing some games as research for which companies I'd like to work for. I think NCSoft is a good choice =)

PS: The filler episodes on Naruto ruined suchhhh a good series. I'm so mad. If Naruto hadn't had fillers, it would be neck to neck with Full Metal Alchemist in my book. It's sad how they butchered that series. The manga is still good though!

 

[Alaya]

I
To find purpose in this life for yourself it's something that has to find you (if that makes any sense)...as if it dawns on you, and that's what happened to me.

This intuitively makes a lot of sense, but it's a problem I'm currently fixing. I'm not very good at "going with the flow" as they say, I have a hard time in putting myself at the hands of destiny and see where it takes me. But you're right, maybe I have to give this a rest for a while and an answer will eventually come up. You might be sorry you ever said this, now I'm going partying every day :tongue:

So definitely, your post definitely helped :wink:

 

[Alaya]

LOL I find it funny you compared that to a video game. I gave up on MMORPGs all together because it was sucking all of the time out of my ACTUAL life. Oh man.. one of my really good friends is addicted to MMORPGs and it's really really sad watching how time flies by and they're still stuck in a room playing this retarded game that isn't even real life. I gave up on MMORPGs, but I do need to start playing some games as research for which companies I'd like to work for. I think NCSoft is a good choice =)

PS: The filler episodes on Naruto ruined suchhhh a good series. I'm so mad. If Naruto hadn't had fillers, it would be neck to neck with Full Metal Alchemist in my book. It's sad how they butchered that series. The manga is still good though!

You'll probably be laughing on the floor if you knew what I'm doing right now....ok, since you insist I'm playing World of Warcraft. One word of advice for you: DON'T go through that road, it's horrible. I'm seriously thinking that WOW is more real than real life, and I'm not exaggerating lol. It's sad and I admit it, but I promise that once I get my character at level 80 I'll go outside and be more normal ok? Deal?

About Naruto, I agree, it had way too many fillers. I absolutely have a vendetta against the creators of the anime. The manga is much better.

 

[Ethanol]

You'll probably be laughing on the floor if you knew what I'm doing right now....ok, since you insist I'm playing World of Warcraft. One word of advice for you: DON'T go through that road, it's horrible. I'm seriously thinking that WOW is more real than real life, and I'm not exaggerating lol. It's sad and I admit it, but I promise that once I get my character at level 80 I'll go outside and be more normal ok? Deal?

About Naruto, I agree, it had way too many fillers. I absolutely have a vendetta against the creators of the anime. The manga is much better.

LEVEL 80?!? Omgosh! That's crazy ahahaha you need to get out of that game! Just think about it, for every level you gained on WoW you could've raised your geek lvl in real life become this genius programmer and worked at Blizzard making a six figure salary :crazy:

I can't wait until the next chapter of Naruto's manga. He has sage mode, PLUS he tamed the nine tailed fox! That's like crazy power. Minato <3!

 

[Alaya]

LEVEL 80?!? Omgosh! That's crazy ahahaha you need to get out of that game! Just think about it, for every level you gained on WoW you could've raised your geek lvl in real life become this genius programmer and worked at Blizzard making a six figure salary :crazy:

I can't wait until the next chapter of Naruto's manga. He has sage mode, PLUS he tamed the nine tailed fox! That's like crazy power. Minato <3!

You really have a way with words, I'm reconsidering now hmmm "I can increase my geek level in real life", well I'll take your advice into good consideration. I'll tell you how it goes with my job interview at Blizzard and about my six figure salary lol

I was actually pissed that just when things were getting excited in Naruto, they decided to put for two weeks a flash back when they were on the academy. I was like "wtf?", they shouldn't do that with people. But I agree, the next few episodes are going to be pretty cool. I'm pretty sad that Itachi and Jiraya had to die, they were my favorite characters T.T

 

[vel]

When I look at my ISFJ mother and ESFJ grandmother, the things they busy with on daily basis, the way they have spent their lives I just cannot see myself being able to do same … it is like energy and time expanded in variety of directions that I cannot understand the use of and thus would not be content with. But on the other hand I feel that they are much better adjusted to normal life. They can happily hold regular jobs and make for far better parents and guardians of their family and friends than I can ever make. You can cover yourself up with a mask for a while, as I do when I am around them. But eventually the INFJ frustrated outwordliness that finds no outlet anywhere, little satisfactoin, and little practical usefulness starts coming to the surface as you cannot fake it forever.

I have compared human existence to what religion says and to what science says and to me it was very clear that science describes behavior of people very well, even explains death, while religion poses more questions than it answers and just wants you to take what it says on faith i.e. believe in it without asking why. Even if I had a religion and believed that my life would culminate either in hell or paradise or in constant reincarnation of some kind, then it still doesn't answer the question of why, why this ending, what's the meaning of it. So I just decided to just side with science and subscribe to philosophy of existientialism, which in plain form says that you just focus on what exists and create meaning for yourself (though some people argue about what it really means). In sense of what to do with my life my enneagram type overrides my MBTI profile. One of the basic drives of type 5s is to be useful. And desire to be useful makes me want to do something, apply myself somewhere, rather than spend time trying to figure world out and constantly thinking about meaning of life.

 

[Ethanol]

I was actually pissed that just when things were getting excited in Naruto, they decided to put for two weeks a flash back when they were on the academy. I was like "wtf?", they shouldn't do that with people. But I agree, the next few episodes are going to be pretty cool. I'm pretty sad that Itachi and Jiraya had to die, they were my favorite characters T.T

As soon as they did the flashbacks to the academy, I just felt my stomach turn. The story between Itachi and Sasuke is so weird, talk about a giant "sike". I dunno what to say other then the fact that if Itachi was still alive, I doubt they would be having a bonding moment on any level. I feel like Itachi would've died making sure Sasuke hated his guts.

However, the whole thing with Jiraya dieing :crying: I don't even want to think about it.

Have you seen Hunter Hunter X? I think they ended the anime series, unless they started a new season. ARRGH. So much anime I want to watch, not enough time for it! *bangs head on table*

 

[Alaya]

When I look at my ISFJ mother and ESFJ grandmother, the things they busy with on daily basis, the way they have spent their lives I just cannot see myself being able to do same … it is like energy and time expanded in variety of directions that I cannot understand the use of and thus would not be content with. But on the other hand I feel that they are much better adjusted to normal life. They can happily hold regular jobs and make for far better parents and guardians of their family and friends than I can ever make. You can cover yourself up with a mask for a while, as I do when I am around them. But eventually the INFJ frustrated outwordliness that finds no outlet anywhere, little satisfactoin, and little practical usefulness starts coming to the surface as you cannot fake it forever.

I have compared human existence to what religion says and to what science says and to me it was very clear that science describes behavior of people very well, even explains death, while religion poses more questions than it answers and just wants you to take what it says on faith i.e. believe in it without asking why. Even if I had a religion and believed that my life would culminate either in hell or paradise or in constant reincarnation of some kind, then it still doesn't answer the question of why, why this ending, what's the meaning of it. So I just decided to just side with science and subscribe to philosophy of existientialism, which in plain form says that you just focus on what exists and create meaning for yourself (though some people argue about what it really means). In sense of what to do with my life my enneagram type overrides my MBTI profile. One of the basic drives of type 5s is to be useful. And desire to be useful makes me want to do something, apply myself somewhere, rather than spend time trying to figure world out and constantly thinking about meaning of life.

I'm also 100% pro-science because it's better at describing and explaining why phenomena behaves the way it does, it makes me look more in control of my life if that makes sense. Since I was a kid I would always ask the tough questions about why we exist and what does it mean to be alive, and unfortunately my mom and everyone would usually grab the bible and tell me the reasons based on what it was written there. Although the explanations were there, I wasn't satisfied with the content and the overall meaning behind the words. Since then, I began to read more and more other philosophies and tried to construct a model of how it all fitted together but the more I did that, the more I felt lost, without direction. I had to conform with being labeled a Christian because I didn't have a valid and logical argument against the idea of a god or higher spiritual power.

In the present, I still label myself a Christian, since it will take an exhaustible amount of energy to explain to others what I really believe in. But in heart and soul I know I'm an atheist, or more clearer: an agnostic atheist.

 

[Collossus]

Now, for me 'normal' life is rather associated with a 'blind' because 'normal' people go through life without knowing what they are actually doing or why they do it, they just follow somebody else's rules.
I hate not knowing why should I believe in god or any religion, so I refused to believe in anything until I was shown viable reasons, and I got them. I believe people perceive the term god distorted (especially the christians): from my 'experience', I know there isn't just one god and that god does not have will (we are the manifestation of his will). For this latter reason, god isn't neither good or bad, he just is, and there isn't such things as heaven/hell, bad/evil etc., they are just manifestations of our will, but do not exist in the higher levels of spirituality we long to achieve. My 'faith' was written as a possibility, but that doesn't mean I can't change my mind on the run, changing your mind is only unhealthy when you do it so often you don't realize you receive a previous wanted gift after wishing for another. God never showed people rules to follow, because there aren't any. Some messages may be perceived as rules because of our subjective understanding.
I also understood the meaning of life, at least mine: to be happier by blindly playing games I made myself before, as it gives that feeling of excitement and/or unknown. If people would know nothing could ever harm them, they would not be motivated to be more persistent in their choices, so they built themselves a game of degradation. The state of god is way beyond our physical perception, so it is ours, but if we widen our visions without us specifically ask for them, then the whole experience we achieved so far may seem useless, because we already knew everything and most of the people would want to 'erase' their knowledge again and reenter the 'game' of life.:wink:

 

[Alaya]

As soon as they did the flashbacks to the academy, I just felt my stomach turn. The story between Itachi and Sasuke is so weird, talk about a giant "sike". I dunno what to say other then the fact that if Itachi was still alive, I doubt they would be having a bonding moment on any level. I feel like Itachi would've died making sure Sasuke hated his guts.

However, the whole thing with Jiraya dieing :crying: I don't even want to think about it.

Have you seen Hunter Hunter X? I think they ended the anime series, unless they started a new season. ARRGH. So much anime I want to watch, not enough time for it! *bangs head on table*

Hunter Hunter X? Nope, never heard of it.I'm going to check that out haha

The last anime I watched was called "Clannad" and I don't recommend watching it unless you're ready to sit down with a box of kleenex throughout the series. It was an amazingly beautiful series, but extremely depressing.

Have you watched Code Geass? I definitely recommend that one :wink:

 

[Alaya]

Now, for me 'normal' life is rather associated with a 'blind' because 'normal' people go through life without knowing what they are actually doing or why they do it, they just follow somebody else's rules.
I hate not knowing why should I believe in god or any religion, so I refused to believe in anything until I was shown viable reasons, and I got them. I believe people perceive the term god distorted (especially the christians): from my 'experience', I know there isn't just one god and that god does not have will (we are the manifestation of his will). For this latter reason, god isn't neither good or bad, he just is, and there isn't such things as heaven/hell, bad/evil etc., they are just manifestations of our will, but do not exist in the higher levels of spirituality we long to achieve. My 'faith' was written as a possibility, but that doesn't mean I can't change my mind on the run, changing your mind is only unhealthy when you do it so often you don't realize you receive a previous wanted gift after wishing for another. God never showed people rules to follow, because there aren't any. Some messages may be perceived as rules because of our subjective understanding.
I also understood the meaning of life, at least mine: to be happier by blindly playing games I made myself before, as it gives that feeling of excitement and/or unknown. If people would know nothing could ever harm them, they would not be motivated to be more persistent in their choices, so they built themselves a game of degradation. The state of god is way beyond our physical perception, so it is ours, but if we widen our visions without us specifically ask for them, then the whole experience we achieved so far may seem useless, because we already knew everything and most of the people would want to 'erase' their knowledge again and reenter the 'game' of life.:wink:

That's the thing, there are thousands and thousands(even more) of interpretations as to what god's will is, that they all get distorted into rigid systems of belief. My question has always been: what is the fundamental truth in our existence?(If any)

 

[Collossus]

That's the thing, there are thousands and thousands(even more) of interpretations as to what god's will is, that they all get distorted into rigid systems of belief. My question has always been: what is the fundamental truth in our existence?(If any)

The state of our existence. In rest, all the truths, lies, statements, actions are meant to reflect this state of being. The fact is, you can give up on everything else but being yourself: you simply cannot be not yourself, you can't deny your existence as long you need to exist in order to make this statement; it would be a conflict impossible to deal with. That doesn't mean you can't create the illusion of not being, but most often illusion is seen as a lie, and so it is in this case.

 

[Alaya]

The state of our existence. In rest, all the truths, lies, statements, actions are meant to reflect this state of being. The fact is, you can give up on everything else but being yourself: you simply cannot be not yourself, you can't deny your existence as long you need to exist in order to make this statement; it would be a conflict impossible to deal with. That doesn't mean you can't create the illusion of not being, but most often illusion is seen as a lie, and so it is in this case.

Have you ever looked into a mirror and asked yourself, "who the hell is this guy?", yeah, maybe it's an illusion in denying who you are, but I sometimes scare myself with the thought that I have lol

 

[Nomenclature]

I saw Bionic's quote somewhere that intelligence or an inquisitive nature is an evolutionary accident and not necessarily an advantage. The meaning of life or success in the biological context is to reproduce and pass on your genes, so yes, I can see how that's "normal"-- we were programmed to be that way.

Honestly, who hasn't questioned the meaning of life beyond that? :mellow: But I'm probably only thinking that way because I asked myself the "big questions" when I was nine or ten, AND I grew up in a non-religious household and I valued science and reasoning above all else. Don't get me wrong, I was precocious, but part of me thinks all of that musing jacked up my childhood and how I related to others and the world. I don't necessarily want to be normal as much as I would want to try it out.

In a way, I see being different as having a duty to live beyond the norm and do something extraordinary with my life.

I can wholly relate to you.

 

[Alaya]

I saw Bionic's quote somewhere that intelligence or an inquisitive nature is an evolutionary accident and not necessarily an advantage. The meaning of life or success in the biological context is to reproduce and pass on your genes, so yes, I can see how that's "normal"-- we were programmed to be that way.

Honestly, who hasn't questioned the meaning of life beyond that? :mellow: But I'm probably only thinking that way because I asked myself the "big questions" when I was nine or ten, AND I grew up in a non-religious household and I valued science and reasoning above all else. Don't get me wrong, I was precocious, but part of me thinks all of that musing jacked up my childhood and how I related to others and the world. I don't necessarily want to be normal as much as I would want to try it out.

In a way, I see being different as having a duty to live beyond the norm and do something extraordinary with my life.

I can wholly relate to you.

Probably unrelated to what you're saying but it somehow popped into my head once I finished reading your post was the allegory of Plato's cave. Maybe I'm trying too hard to explain to others what's beyond the cave, when most people don't care or want to know what's there.

Maybe my thinking is an evolutionary accident, maybe it's counterproductive to the human species to be thinking these sorts of things when my only duty should be to work my ass off, find a beautiful women to get married to, have children, and then see them grow as I grow old and await the kingdom of heaven to receive me with open arms.

 

[The Proof]

What I mean by normal is that you hold a really focused philosophy of what you're supposed to do in life: you are born, you mature, you reproduce and die, that's the "normal" cycle of life.

I didn't think I had a a choice about any of that :wink: