[devoid]

I know this doesn't sound very stereotypical ISTP; from what I gather you normally want everything to be straightforward and at face value. But when you're talking to a non-ISTP, do you tend to expect everything to have hidden meanings? It's such a cultural expectation in a way, for people to tiptoe around a topic and expect the other person to pick up on it. Does this ever make you jump to conclusions about what people say?

I tend to be very straightforward about everything myself, and very rarely if ever mean something other than what I say. Yet I notice that my ISTP partner normally gets defensive about things I say without me hinting at anything... He'll sometimes respond to something I didn't really say, which I always thought was strange since he himself never uses hidden meanings. I realized that he barely knows any other Ti types, and most of his family is ESFx or similar.

Do any of you have similar experiences?

 

[reletative]

I find that I don't feel I can trust other people to say what they mean...and I'm always searching out the "why" they saying what theyre saying. maybe I overanalyze, but I constantly find myself analyzing why someone said it the way they said it or why they worded it that way or why they brought it up in the first place....evenfor stupid stuff. Could be an overactive Ti gland, could be trust issue..... I dunno.
Or heck maybe it.s the fact that any question I ask is usually designed and thought out to get more information than the other person realizes, so I assume everyone is also doing the same thing to me

 

[devoid]

I find that I don't feel I can trust other people to say what they mean...and I'm always searching out the "why" they saying what theyre saying. maybe I overanalyze, but I constantly find myself analyzing why someone said it the way they said it or why they worded it that way or why they brought it up in the first place....evenfor stupid stuff. Could be an overactive Ti gland, could be trust issue..... I dunno.
Or heck maybe it.s the fact that any question I ask is usually designed and thought out to get more information than the other person realizes, so I assume everyone is also doing the same thing to me

Ti gland... that made me laugh. x3

Makes sense. I do that with some people, but not with my partner. I'm just so bad at reading body language most of the time and don't get most social cues, so I gave up worrying about hidden meanings in what others say. If I miss something, they can deal with it.

 

[zynthaxx]

I realized that he barely knows any other Ti types, and most of his family is ESFx or similar.

Growing up in a culture where people actually use hidden meanings would probably make a reasonably smart person adapt. That might not go away first thing.

 

[Erbse]

As ISTP the only one you can trust is yourself, we'll always take possibilities into consideration what things that been said by others could mean, but we don't necessarily choose to act on them.

While me may be oblivious to implication and hidden meanings most of the time we're well away if things simply aren't right. We immediately notice if tension is building up - what I typically do is sit it out and wait till it's brought up as opposed to poke around, for I'm not responsible for the other person's struggles if it's not being brought up to me.

Some ISTPs may handle it differently, but I've learned to leave people alone with their problems, if they'd want me to know they'd tell me, likewise clear myself of any blame if they choose not to communicate.

 

[DJArendee]

Yeah we speak at face value. Its funny how a couple of Ni users I know claim to speak at face value as well. My INFJ creative writing teacher always said, "There are no hidden meanings in this poem, its all there at face value!"

Yeah right. He's an unaware hippocrite. He was the only one who understood the poem, and would sit there and spew the meaning of the poem. Somehow "lights masked in a shroud of mystery" is a christmas tree. What's even better is the INTJ's are belligerent about their own face value interpretations.

Anyway yeah, we're the only ones who speak at face value. INTP's do too, but its usually with such incredible depth and accuracy of speech that they drive themselves nuts trying to explain anything... haha.

ESTJ's like to claim, "they'll tell you straight up," which sounds noble, but they usually have no idea how to express themselves or truly understand what it is they're trying to say, haha. I still love em though.

 

[reletative]

I find that I don't feel I can trust other people to say what they mean...and I'm always searching out the "why" they saying what theyre saying. maybe I overanalyze, but I constantly find myself analyzing why someone said it the way they said it or why they worded it that way or why they brought it up in the first place....evenfor stupid stuff. Could be an overactive Ti gland, could be trust issue..... I dunno.
Or heck maybe it.s the fact that any question I ask is usually designed and thought out to get more information than the other person realizes, so I assume everyone is also doing the same thing to me

Maybe I should point out that my dad is exxxxtreeeemely INTP (and very insecure), Mom is ESFJ, HUsband is ENFJ, Siblings are ESFJ, ESTJ, and ISFP. Im' pretty used to NOBODY saying exactly what they mean and lots of emotions flying around everywhere

 

[ClarifiedMind]

If I had a dollar for every time a person said, "I'm straight forward." I'd be rich...but can you really blame them? Who wants to admit to beating around the bush and not being upfront. With the exception of my family (mostly ISTP's and ISTJ) and my best friend no one, and I mean no one is upfront, especially my husband (ESTJ). We always have to play the game of connect the dots. It's extremely frustrating because I'm not good at it and I think it's stupid. We rarely argue but when we do this is usually the culprit. I feel like my intelligence is being insulted when people do this.

Case in point...the handyman just left my house. He told me that he cannot install our new dishwasher,return it buy a portable one, and remodel the kitchen. Fine. I hear it as exactly that. Now, when I tell my husband he's going to ask, "Soooo what do you think he meant by that?" or, "So what does that mean?" I will then hit the roof. Not everyone speaks in riddles!

 

[Capsicum]

I'm usually pretty shrewd when it comes to picking up hidden meanings in things.

I grew up in a small town where everyone bitched about everyone else, and it DOES get back to the person who was being bitched about. Thus, implying something rather than saying it outright a) gets the meaning across and b) gives the option of plausible denial should we be confronted by the person.

Plus in Australian English phrases can't always be taken at face value. For instance, your best friend is a "total bastard" but your worst enemy is "a bit of a bastard"; having "a bit of a problem" usually means the whole situation is buggered. So that's another influence.

 

[ClarifiedMind]

I'm usually pretty shrewd when it comes to picking up hidden meanings in things.

I grew up in a small town where everyone bitched about everyone else, and it DOES get back to the person who was being bitched about. Thus, implying something rather than saying it outright a) gets the meaning across and b) gives the option of plausible denial should we be confronted by the person.

Plus in Australian English phrases can't always be taken at face value. For instance, your best friend is a "total bastard" but your worst enemy is "a bit of a bastard"; having "a bit of a problem" usually means the whole situation is buggered. So that's another influence.

You know, after thinking about it I think in America it's in poor taste to just come out with it. However, you would be considered a bit of a wimp if you admit that you are indirect and like to beat around the bush.

 

[Capsicum]

However, you would be considered a bit of a wimp if you admit that you are indirect and like to beat around the bush.

Same here, which is why we don't admit it. Helps with the "plausible denial" thing as well. :laughing:

 

[devoid]

Haha, yeah. It's true that nobody is really 100% straightforward, except maybe a few INTJs... but I do try.

 

[tayto]

I think I need to learn to be more upfront. Some things just make me want to cringe and I don't want to say them out loud so I imply. Big mistake with an istp I suppose. I over estimated his intelligence if anything though, thinking he'll just know.

 

[ThoughtProcess]

I find that I don't feel I can trust other people to say what they mean...and I'm always searching out the "why" they saying what theyre saying. maybe I overanalyze, but I constantly find myself analyzing why someone said it the way they said it or why they worded it that way or why they brought it up in the first place.

This...

Growing up in a culture where people actually use hidden meanings would probably make a reasonably smart person adapt. That might not go away first thing.

...Plus this.

As I've said several times, my mom and wife are INFP and I believe my dad was an ISFJ. I'm used to people not saying what they mean or necessarily meaning what they say. I grew up having to read between the lines.

For instance. If you want me to take the trash out all you have to do is ask. Pulling the trash can out a few inches is not asking, it's hinting. My mom was really bad about that when I was a kid.

You know, after thinking about it I think in America it's in poor taste to just come out with it. However, you would be considered a bit of a wimp if you admit that you are indirect and like to beat around the bush.

I agree. I'm frequently chastised for using direct insults instead of veiled insults.

I think I need to learn to be more upfront. Some things just make me want to cringe and I don't want to say them out loud so I imply. Big mistake with an istp I suppose. I over estimated his intelligence if anything though, thinking he'll just know.

Yes, this is a big and often annoying mistake. However, you recognize it. :happy:

 

[ClarifiedMind]

For instance. If you want me to take the trash out all you have to do is ask. Pulling the trash can out a few inches is not asking, it's hinting. My mom was really bad about that when I was a kid.

This reminds me of story. I used to work for a call center when I was about 20 or 21. I used to work at night and it would get slow. So, I would read my book (this was before I learned how to look busy). So, I got up to go to the restroom and came back to a note laying in my chair, "no reading during down time." Not only was it in my chair, but it was everyone's chair on my team. Well! I snatched up the note and took it over to my supervisor. I asked him if he put that in my chair. He said he did but everyone got the same note. Then I said well, I was the only one reading! I told him the next time he needed to tell me something tell me to my face because that note was uncalled for. He was looking at me like I was crazy...I don't think he expected me to call him out.

That made me so angry! Why is it so hard to be direct...all that extra effort (typing a note, printing out 15 copies, passing it around...c'mon!). It would have been easier to just tell me not to read during down time. I know I will never get the answer to this question because I've been wondering practically my whole life but what is so hard about being direct? Don't try to spare my feelings. Logic comes before feelings and beating around the bush makes no sense at all so just....stop.

 

[Orangey]

I almost never take people's words at face value and can be pretty paranoid in general. I'm not really concerned about whether someone was meaning to insult me or anything petty like that, but I am concerned about them lying or withholding important information from me.

 

[ThoughtProcess]

I know I will never get the answer to this question because I've been wondering practically my whole life but what is so hard about being direct? Don't try to spare my feelings. Logic comes before feelings and beating around the bush makes no sense at all so just....stop.

Seriously.

I'm about to have to confront one of my former employers because dude won't stop talking shit about me and it's been 5-6 years since he screwed me over.

 

[madhatter]

This reminds me of story. I used to work for a call center when I was about 20 or 21. I used to work at night and it would get slow. So, I would read my book (this was before I learned how to look busy). So, I got up to go to the restroom and came back to a note laying in my chair, "no reading during down time." Not only was it in my chair, but it was everyone's chair on my team. Well! I snatched up the note and took it over to my supervisor. I asked him if he put that in my chair. He said he did but everyone got the same note. Then I said well, I was the only one reading! I told him the next time he needed to tell me something tell me to my face because that note was uncalled for. He was looking at me like I was crazy...I don't think he expected me to call him out.

That made me so angry! Why is it so hard to be direct...all that extra effort (typing a note, printing out 15 copies, passing it around...c'mon!). It would have been easier to just tell me not to read during down time. I know I will never get the answer to this question because I've been wondering practically my whole life but what is so hard about being direct? Don't try to spare my feelings. Logic comes before feelings and beating around the bush makes no sense at all so just....stop.

Oh man, my boss does this. I hate it. She'll call everyone together and give everyone the "talk" even if only one person did it, or try to micromanage everyone into little policies just because of one person's mistakes. (Thankfully, she's getting better at this, because it saves me the trouble of rebelling against her micromanaging.) And she'll put a note in the mail boxes, instead coming right out and saying it.

And actually, I think I got a note in my box about "reading on the job" too...but it was work-related, which is allowed. One of my co-workers who to this day remains "nameless" (even though I know who did it) was just trying to get me in trouble. I confronted my boss about the note, and asked her who told her so I could go talk to them. Well, she wouldn't tell me who it was dry, but I told her that if anybody ever came to her about me, that she should send them to me. And she said that she would do that.

I never had any more trouble after that. :crazy:

 

[ClarifiedMind]

Oh man, my boss does this. I hate it. She'll call everyone together and give everyone the "talk" even if only one person did it, or try to micromanage everyone into little policies just because of one person's mistakes. (Thankfully, she's getting better at this, because it saves me the trouble of rebelling against her micromanaging.) And she'll put a note in the mail boxes, instead coming right out and saying it.

And actually, I think I got a note in my box about "reading on the job" too...but it was work-related, which is allowed. One of my co-workers who to this day remains "nameless" (even though I know who did it) was just trying to get me in trouble. I confronted my boss about the note, and asked her who told her so I could go talk to them. Well, she wouldn't tell me who it was dry, but I told her that if anybody ever came to her about me, that she should send them to me. And she said that she would do that.

I never had any more trouble after that. :crazy:

Maybe when people do this they think they're you doing a favor. Little do they know, they are making the situation worse.

 

[madhatter]

Who? The boss or the co-worker?