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My best friend (ESTP) spit some unintended prose type shit to me yesterday concerning his attitude towards death and I'm curious as to whether any of you all might relate.

To preface, we always argue over "risk management" in all aspects of life; I generally swear by it (to some degree) and he laughs in its anal retentive face. We balance each other out that way--he pushes me to be more spontaneous and devil-may-care and I push him to look 10+ steps ahead and consider all likely outcomes, in depth, before making a decision. We heed each other's advice on the matter approximately 30-40% of the time. lol We definitely respect and value each other, but are both headstrong and very committed to our respective ways of "doing business."

There have been times when I've all but pleaded with the motherfucker to not do some shit I just kNew would literally get him killed. And to be fair, he's also had to get me down from a few ledges (always temper related) but he's of the former Mercenary, African gold mind investing, impromptu self-surgery performing, extreme cliff diving variety. To his credit, he's proven over and over again that he's rather competent at walking and/or crawling out of shit alive BUT ol' boy is getting up there in years and I think his indomitable will lies to his ever more indigestive body. lol

So we're (actually just me) arguing and I flat out ask him if he values his life because considering everything he's done and continues to do, it doesn't seem like it. (I dunno, maybe it's just me but I tend to want great fucking people to stick around, considering the pathetic state of humanity overall. lol) And as ever, with charisma perfectly at room temperature and a fucking twinkle in his eye, said, "By the time I was 18, I was ready to die because I had already seen so much shit. I experienced so many amazing things, good and bad. But I enjoyed my life. With no regrets. And so every day after that was a bonus round. I went for broke."

That whole response just struck me as "shit STPs say"; but it made sense to me. He officially made his peace with death once he amassed a sufficient amount of experiences. Is that relatable at all?

Moreover, if Se, especially dom Se, is concerned with experiencing the real world, in the here and now, in order to gain information, then that can be an end unto itself, no? Perhaps valuing the Se experience, in the moment, as paramount deprioritizes over concern for what comes after? As a tertiary Se user, I've certainly done adventurous/treacherous/reckless shit in the heat of the moment "just cause," "for the hell of it," "cause I felt like it" when so inspired without giving many fucks about potential consequences like death. I'm wondering if that impulse is much stronger/more usual/more refined somehow for a dominant Se user.

Do you fear death?
 

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lol What's the motivation behind this point of view?
I'm slowly starving to death from a extremely rare untreatable intestinal/stomach disorder
have had osteo arthritis in every joint in my body for 29 years
I'm in pain 24/7/365
never been married and the father of none
my fams are dead
meh we are all going to die from some thing some day
 

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I'm slowly starving to death from a extremely rare untreatable intestinal/stomach disorder
have had osteo arthritis in every joint in my body for 29 years
I'm in pain 24/7/365
never been married and the father of none
my fams are dead
meh we are all going to die from some thing some day
I mean, I'm thanking this message because its absolutely heartfelt but ... its sad :(

I like you Mr Vinniebob
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm slowly starving to death from a extremely rare untreatable intestinal/stomach disorder
have had osteo arthritis in every joint in my body for 29 years
I'm in pain 24/7/365
never been married and the father of none
my fams are dead
meh we are all going to die from some thing some day

Ah, I see. When life is bondage and death is freedom. I empathize with you, truly. I've had multiple times in my life where it ostensibly seemed that Life had a contract hit out on me but I'm so petty, vengeful and vindictive that I've decided to live out of spite. With every breath I say "FUCK YOU" to this unfair, absurdist shit show. lol I liken it to our parents (read: Life) bringing us into this reality, making our lives a dysfunctional hell (nature & nature) that renders us fractured to vary degrees, expecting us to go off and make do or not, but suddenly we flip the script on their asses, claim disability, and permanently move into the basement, completely neutralizing their ability to charge new tenants double the rent. Fuck that, I'm sticking around and driving up the electric bill until my trolling black heart gives out. :smug: Spite is an underrated motivator! Make em pay vinniebob.
 

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My best friend (ESTP) spit some unintended prose type shit to me yesterday concerning his attitude towards death and I'm curious as to whether any of you all might relate.

To preface, we always argue over "risk management" in all aspects of life; I generally swear by it (to some degree) and he laughs in its anal retentive face. We balance each other out that way--he pushes me to be more spontaneous and devil-may-care and I push him to look 10+ steps ahead and consider all likely outcomes, in depth, before making a decision. We heed each other's advice on the matter approximately 30-40% of the time. lol We definitely respect and value each other, but are both headstrong and very committed to our respective ways of "doing business."

There have been times when I've all but pleaded with the motherfucker to not do some shit I just kNew would literally get him killed. And to be fair, he's also had to get me down from a few ledges (always temper related) but he's of the former Mercenary, African gold mind investing, impromptu self-surgery performing, extreme cliff diving variety. To his credit, he's proven over and over again that he's rather competent at walking and/or crawling out of shit alive BUT ol' boy is getting up there in years and I think his indomitable will lies to his ever more indigestive body. lol

So we're (actually just me) arguing and I flat out ask him if he values his life because considering everything he's done and continues to do, it doesn't seem like it. (I dunno, maybe it's just me but I tend to want great fucking people to stick around, considering the pathetic state of humanity overall. lol) And as ever, with charisma perfectly at room temperature and a fucking twinkle in his eye, said, "By the time I was 18, I was ready to die because I had already seen so much shit. I experienced so many amazing things, good and bad. But I enjoyed my life. With no regrets. And so every day after that was a bonus round. I went for broke."

That whole response just struck me as "shit STPs say"; but it made sense to me. He officially made his peace with death once he amassed a sufficient amount of experiences. Is that relatable at all?

Moreover, if Se, especially dom Se, is concerned with experiencing the real world, in the here and now, in order to gain information, then that can be an end unto itself, no? Perhaps valuing the Se experience, in the moment, as paramount deprioritizes over concern for what comes after? As a tertiary Se user, I've certainly done adventurous/treacherous/reckless shit in the heat of the moment "just cause," "for the hell of it," "cause I felt like it" when so inspired without giving many fucks about potential consequences like death. I'm wondering if that impulse is much stronger/more usual/more refined somehow for a dominant Se user.

Do you fear death?
im not 100% this is an STP thing... but when you see anybody enjoynig life to the fullest, its because they have experienced their own version of death... they are connected to the source energy... to love. those who've been there and back know that in order to truly live... something must die. that something , is your ego.

death is not the end. its just the back door.
 

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Fear of Death



No, I am not afraid of death. If I am, death is not, and if death is, I am not. In mortal danger I didn’t experience fear but astonishment and an imperative to focus on finding an escape by means of clear thinking – if I want to survive, that is. Adults who are afraid of death are retarded. By contrast it is not dysfunctional to be afraid of physical injury. Dead bodies look very peaceful if they are not disfigured, and they can help to build rapport with death, which should begin early in life.

Simon Critchley, Being and Time Part 6 – Death

Far from being morbid, Heidegger's conception of living in the knowledge of death is a liberating one

[T]he basic idea in Being and Time is very simple: being is time and time is finite. For human beings, time comes to an end with our death. Therefore, if we want to understand what it means to be an authentic human being, then it is essential that we constantly project our lives onto the horizon of our death. This is what Heidegger famously calls "being-towards-death". If our being is finite, then an authentic human life can only be found by confronting finitude and trying to make a meaning out of the fact of our death. Heidegger subscribes to the ancient maxim that "to philosophise is to learn how to die". Mortality is that in relation to which we shape and fashion our selfhood.

There are four rather formal criteria in Heidegger's conception of being-towards-death: it is non-relational, certain, indefinite and not to be outstripped. Firstly, death is non-relational in the sense in standing before death one has cut off all relations to others. Death cannot be experienced through the deaths of others, but only through my relation to my death. I will contest this criterion below.

Secondly, it is certain that we are going to die. Although one might evade or run away from the fact, no one doubts that life comes to an end in death. Thirdly, death is indefinite in the sense that although death is certain, we do not know when it going to happen. Most people desire a long and full life, but we can never know when the grim reaper is going to knock at our door.

Fourthly, to say that death is not to be outstripped (unüberholbar) simply means that death is pretty damned important. There's no way of trumping it and it outstrips all the possibilities that my power of free projection possesses. This is the idea behind Heidegger's famously paradoxically statement that death is the "possibility of impossibility". Death is that limit against which my potentiality-for- being (Seinkönnen) is to be measured. It is that essential impotence against which the potency of my freedom shatters itself.

At the end of the introduction to Being and Time, Heidegger writes, "Higher than actuality stands possibility". Being and Time is a long hymn of praise to possibility and it finds its highest expression in being-towards-death. Heidegger makes a distinction between anticipation (Vorlaufen) and expectation or awaiting (Erwarten). His claim is that the awaiting of death still contains too much of the actual, where death would be the actualisation of possibility. Such would be a gloomy philosophy of morbidity. On the contrary, for Heidegger, anticipation does not passively await death, but mobilises mortality as the condition for free action in the world.

This results in a hugely important and seemingly paradoxical thought: freedom is not the absence of necessity, in the form of death. On the contrary, freedom consists in the affirmation of the necessity of one's mortality. It is only in being-towards-death that one can become the person who one truly is. Concealed in the idea of death as the possibility of impossibility is the acceptance on one's mortal limitation as the basis for an affirmation of one's life.

So, there is nothing morbid about being-towards-death. Heidegger's thought is that being-towards-death pulls Dasein out of its immersion in inauthentic everyday life and allows it come into its own. It is only in relation to being-towards-death that I become passionately aware of my freedom.

Despite its baroque linguistic garb, Heidegger's analysis of being-towards-death is exceptionally direct and powerful. (S)

Epicurus: Letter to Menoeceus
 

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Is fear the word for it? I don't want to die just yet. There's lots to do still. I'll cease to exist and so I won't be here to have any thoughts or feelings about not existing anymore. You can work really hard to get immortalized on a plaque but people who didn't live through what you lived through, aren't going to read the names on those plaques or honestly give a shit about who did what. When you're dead, you can't feel proud of what you did because you don't exist anymore. None of it will matter anymore.

Living is experiencing and if you live fearing death, you're missing the point of living.
 

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Death, I think, is generally misunderstood. We tend to think in terms of the living and dead, or of the finality of death. We see a body on display in a funeral home and feel sadness or sorrow, perhaps fear or even repugnance. We definetly do not want join in the same fate as the recently departed. Perhaps we wonder how we can escape or evade death, or even what death is.

Before going further with my comments, I want to say that I’m not selling anything here, or even asking you to believe me. But I do want to share a bit of personal experience. How you assess this is, of course, entirely up to you.

I have had (my estimation) during my lifetime a dozen out of body experiences. No, drugs or alcohol were not involved. People often ask that. All experiences were involuntary.

To keep this brief and to the point, when out of body you are still you. There is no change. Your senses, intellect and mind are functional. You are simply and literally out of body. It is a natural experience, and not at all frightening.

I suggest you search the internet for OBERF (Out of Body Experience Research Foundation) or NDERF (Near Death Experiance Research Foundation) to learn more, should you be interested. There you will find thousands of documented experiences, to include a few of my own.

If you are of the “Fade to black” expectation upon death, I think you will find the experience to be substantially different.

I do not fear death in the traditional sense. I do not look forward to the illness, injury or old age that brings my in-body experience to a close. That may be a very difficult, and perhaps painful, undertaking.

My view is that we are at a minimum a two part being. Call it body and soul, if you like. We are not our body and our body is not really us. We ultimately depart our bodies, and the body, now residue, is dealt with. I have been out of body too many times to believe otherwise.

Disagreement and disbelief is expected. As mentioned, I’m not selling anything or looking to change anyone’s opinions or beliefs. My intent is only to communicate a bit of personal experience. It is not my desire to offend any reader’s personal beliefs, be they religious, spiritual or other.
 

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I mean, if fear comes from the unknown, don't we all fear death?
I think ESTP's might just be better at not thinking about it. :tongue:
Eh. I've faced a gun several times. I'm nihilistic. I lived in a war torn country and I was raised in a religion where death is accepted as a normal part of life. I think fear of death is a modern western thing since it isn't rampant anymore.

I don't fear it at all. I do not want to die ... But if I die. I die.*shrug*

I've thought about it a lot.
 

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I like the idea of being dead. I feel like I'm nothing anyway so I'm not too afraid of actually becoming nothing. (Boy, I do not sound like a Se user here.) I don't really think things are going uphill from here so it would be nice to have it all end now.

Dying itself, yeah I do fear that. I don't like the idea of experiencing so much pain that my body gives up because of it. I really hope that I die in a quick and relatively painless way.

Honestly, I'm fine with the idea of falling asleep tonight and never waking up, as long as it doesn't hurt.
 
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