Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

Registered
ENTP | 4w3 | SP/SX
Joined
46 Posts
Rarely if ever, there's always a way to explain things without pissing people off and that in of itself to me a talent, being brutally honest is too easy and doing that makes a lot of enemies, just because I have TI doesn't give me an excuse to be a dickhead 馃ぃ. I don't blame the function, I blame the individual who uses the function in that manner.
 

Registered
INFJ
Joined
255 Posts
I'm an INFJ, and... I rarely offend people, because I usually bend the truth enough so they can accept what I am offering. If I cannot bend it or say it partially, I usually keep it for myself because I rarely see any point in starting a heated open debate with them getting their feelings hurt.

But, when I was a teenager I was a rebel and, I had zero problems saying offensive things I've found to be true irregardless of what people think, sometimes I would tell them exactly because I knew people will find it offensive but thought-provoking, because they will have difficulties denying it. You can see similar behaviour in young Marlyn Manson, who is supposedly INFJ as well.

Today, I rarely offend, except when I really, really need to be so direct, such as in close relationships that are in a problem. EDIT: Or maybe if I had a really bad day and someone poked me right in the nerve.
 

Registered
INTJ 5w6 583 sp/sx
Joined
709 Posts
馃 Do you find that you offend people easily with your TI truth?

Ti is Thinking within introverted attitude, which prioritizes subject over object.
It is less concerned with objective reality and, therefore, will less likely come up with a "truth" in an immediately intelligible to others form. And less likely will make one appear as an asshole as opposed to Te.
From video I got an impression that Ti is "independent thinking", while Te is just "group thinking" that agrees with others, which is wrong.
 

Registered
ENTJ
Joined
1,190 Posts
馃 Do you find that you offend people easily with your TI truth?

How I get away with demon Fe.

1. Proceed to say something offensive
2. Justify it to myself coz I'm merely telling the truth
3. Tell the offended person he/she needs to accept reality and stop living in the clouds and proceed to mock the over reacting fool
4. I become a comedian coz of all my inappropriate jokes
5. I start seeing people as NPCs
6. Wut is feeling?
:D
 

Registered
INFJ
Joined
255 Posts
Ti is Thinking within introverted attitude, which prioritizes subject over object.
It is less concerned with objective reality and, therefore, will less likely come up with a "truth" in an immediately intelligible to others form. And less likely will make one appear as an asshole as opposed to Te.
From video I got an impression that Ti is "independent thinking", while Te is just "group thinking" that agrees with others, which is wrong.
Yeah, Ti will more often confuse others and be thought of as nitpicky. Ti assholes say "this doesn't make sense" and then they describe why is a statement contradictory. Ti isn't really a "truth-spouting" function because, as you said, logic is made within internal paradigm, and not developed around a particular objective situation.

Ti doms and Ti aux are more about boldy proclaiming their own internal worldviews and carefuly crafted opinions. This can of course rub people the wrong way, especially Fi people that find their values attacked by logical critique, implying that they should change their values.
 

Registered
Joined
2,728 Posts
I can almost guarantee that nobody sees 'honest opinions' as being like an 'asshole'. THAT is determined by the rest of your behavior.

I've known some brutally honest, no-nonsense Ti types who call it like they see it (note: not "like it is", how they see it, that's key difference). Never have they acted like an asshole toward me tho. Maybe they are making an effort to be 'play nice' with me, idk, but if they do, that's out of their own volition. There are also types who, after getting their precious ego hurt when being told they aren't dropping the truth bomb they thought they were, proceed to go "waah waah well you're a bitch" - see the difference?
 

Registered
ESFJ
Joined
128 Posts
I don't believe truths, facts, and logic offend. I mean, what gives if 1+1=2. Nothing offensive.

On the other hand, making a point that a person is an inferior worthless piece of trash who doesn't have one ounce of intelligence nor of virtue, thus is undeserving of love, respect, and should be better off dead. Well, I'd say that'd be pretty offensive. When a "T subject" offends (no matter if the person is a T or F), it's rarely because it spoke the truth, but often because there was an implicit "I'm righter than thou and your opinion/character/intelligence is shit" along the way.

The "that doesn't make sense" sentence is a good example. There's a fine difference between saying "I don't understand your reasoning" and automatically dismissing someone's reasoning as "not making sense".
 

Registered
INFJ
Joined
255 Posts
I don't believe truths, facts, and logic offend. I mean, what gives if 1+1=2. Nothing offensive.

On the other hand, making a point that a person is a worthless piece of trash who doesn't have one ounce of intelligence nor of virtue, thus is undeserving of love, respect, and should be better off dead. Well, I'd say that'd be pretty offensive. When a "T subject" offends (no matter if the person is a T or F), it's rarely because it spoke the truth, but often because there was an implicit "I'm righter than thou and your opinion/character is shit" along the way.

The "that doesn't make sense" sentence is a good example. There's a fine difference between saying "I don't understand your reasoning" and automatically dismissing someone's reasoning as "not making sense".
You are 100% correct. On the other side, when you look at IxTPs for example, many of them just aren't paying attention to how they sound, they don't work on their delivery, and they might not be aware of how aggitated they are for wharever reason.

For Ti doms it's often frustrating how nonsensical some people are because they are hyperaware of what is said on the surface, what does it imply, and they want precision and coherence.

High Ti people (especially NTPs) value truth and logic, and they rightfully think that allowing nonsense to prosper leads to societal issues, so sometimes they overreact without being aware and critique something they've heard bluntly and in an unfriendly tone.
 

Registered
Joined
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm an INFJ, and... I rarely offend people, because I usually bend the truth enough so they can accept what I am offering. If I cannot bend it or say it partially, I usually keep it for myself because I rarely see any point in starting a heated open debate with them getting their feelings hurt.

But, when I was a teenager I was a rebel and, I had zero problems saying offensive things I've found to be true irregardless of what people think, sometimes I would tell them exactly because I knew people will find it offensive but thought-provoking, because they will have difficulties denying it. You can see similar behaviour in young Marlyn Manson, who is supposedly INFJ as well.

Today, I rarely offend, except when I really, really need to be so direct, such as in close relationships that are in a problem. EDIT: Or maybe if I had a really bad day and someone poked me right in the nerve.
It seems like you have developed your diplomacy well. Good communication skills, attitude, and delivery style can certainly influence how well a message is received :)
 

Registered
INFJ
Joined
255 Posts
It seems like you have developed your diplomacy well. Good communication skills, attitude, and delivery style can certainly influence how well a message is received :)
I am pretty good at diplomacy, yeah. But at one point this led me into feeling that I'm totally inauthentic, as well as lonely. Because I cloaked myself too hard and people couldn't figure it out. So there is a really positive side to outspoken Ti (or Fi, for that matter)
 

Registered
Joined
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am pretty good at diplomacy, yeah. But at one point this led me into feeling that I'm totally inauthentic, as well as lonely. Because I cloaked myself too hard and people couldn't figure it out. So there is a really positive side to outspoken Ti (or Fi, for that matter)
That's a good point...sometimes a person can shield too much, and this can contribute towards why many INFJs are seldom seen by others. It's not always easy to get the balance.
 

Registered
Joined
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ti is Thinking within introverted attitude, which prioritizes subject over object.
It is less concerned with objective reality and, therefore, will less likely come up with a "truth" in an immediately intelligible to others form. And less likely will make one appear as an asshole as opposed to Te.
From video I got an impression that Ti is "independent thinking", while Te is just "group thinking" that agrees with others, which is wrong.
I don't think that TI offends because its unintelligible....quite the contrary.

I agree that TE is not group thinking...but it is more consensus based and measurable, which means that a group of people have a higher probability to agree upon the same facts.

On the other hand TI...is originally derrived from within the mind of the thinker.
 

Registered
INTJ 5w6 583 sp/sx
Joined
709 Posts
@PersonaBelle
On the other hand TI...is originally derrived from within the mind of the thinker.
Which is exactly why it has higher chances to be "unrelatable" due to its heavy subjective factor.
What offends most is what is the "truth" that victim and offender can share because victim then is forced to accept these "facts".

With Ti it is usually easy to see this specific subjective perspective which has no obligations to model reality accurately as opposed to Te which is derived from object.
It is associated with the "consensus" simply because subjects frequently share the same objects and have similar tools (brains) to work with them.

Anyway, there are many ways in which one can be asshole, but my point is that the most offending ones will be object-oriented in their conclusions since "truth" in such form has higher chances to be "agreed upon", just like you said.
 

Registered
INTP, 953
Joined
193 Posts
The reason why Ti conclusions have a semblance of validity is because the process disregards most personal attachment towards objects. The reason why it offends other people is usually because the conclusion and the chain of logic that leads to it are also in a form that disregards the other persons attachments toward objects. People usually just use the subjective source of information as a reason to ignore/critique it, it isn`t what they are insulted by.

I mainly just avoid speaking about my opinions completely, it is too stressful to figure out the emotional attachments of everyone I meet just to adapt all of my information to a form they can understand, so I only do it for the few people that genuinely try to understand my views. I usually just make up opinions to joke around because I want to avoid these issues.
 

exploring space
Joined
9,987 Posts
A lot of the things considered "Ti", usually from analyzing how TPs behave actually is extraverted thinking in the original theory. Being open to external information and using it to shape one's logic and systems, detached from the self. Original TE had nothing to do with efficiency specifically, and the way MBTI defines their Te in practice can be quite subjective when we see how it manifests in TJs.

For Ti doms it's often frustrating how nonsensical some people are because they are hyperaware of what is said on the surface, what does it imply, and they want precision and coherence.

High Ti people (especially NTPs) value truth and logic, and they rightfully think that allowing nonsense to prosper leads to societal issues, so sometimes they overreact without being aware and critique something they've heard bluntly and in an unfriendly tone.
this is the sort of thing I'm talking about

though I find Jung's descriptions lacking - probably due to the culture of the times and also 'cause I think he associated FE and TE too much with S and introversion too much with N and behavioral withdrawal, he describes a similar attitude to the above: (also kinda dramatic.. but the point is there)

In accordance with his definition, we must picture a, man whose constant aim -- in so far, of course, as he is a [p. 435] pure type -- is to bring his total life-activities into relation with intellectual conclusions, which in the last resort are always orientated by objective data, whether objective facts or generally valid ideas. This type of man gives the deciding voice-not merely for himself alone but also on behalf of his entourage-either to the actual objective reality or to its objectively orientated, intellectual formula. By this formula are good and evil measured, and beauty and ugliness determined. All is right that corresponds with this formula; all is wrong that contradicts it; and everything that is neutral to it is purely accidental. Because this formula seems to correspond with the meaning of the world, it also becomes a world-law whose realization must be achieved at all times and seasons, both individually and collectively. Just as the extraverted thinking type subordinates himself to his formula, so, for its own good, must his entourage also obey it, since the man who refuses to obey is wrong -- he is resisting the world-law, and is, therefore, unreasonable, immoral, and without a conscience. His moral code forbids him to tolerate exceptions; his ideal must, under all circumstances, be realized; for in his eyes it is the purest conceivable formulation of objective reality, and, therefore, must also be generally valid truth, quite indispensable for the salvation of man. This is not from any great love for his neighbour, but from a higher standpoint of justice and truth. Everything in his own nature that appears to invalidate this formula is mere imperfection, an accidental miss-fire, something to be eliminated on the next occasion, or, in the event of further failure, then clearly a sickness.
 

Registered
Joined
1,331 Posts
It's a very common Fe practice to make Ti the villain. This thread is an example of it. They would try to do it "diplomatically" so that everyone else would agree with them, making us the bad guy. We TPs are easy targets because it takes a lot for us to actually do something harmful to others where it matters, i.e. physically or mentally. This is especially true for NTPs, which makes us their perfect punching bags. If they practice this stuff on TJs or even FPs, they would face real wrath.
 

Registered
Joined
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
A lot of the things considered "Ti", usually from analyzing how TPs behave actually is extraverted thinking in the original theory. Being open to external information and using it to shape one's logic and systems, detached from the self. Original TE had nothing to do with efficiency specifically, and the way MBTI defines their Te in practice can be quite subjective when we see how it manifests in TJs.



this is the sort of thing I'm talking about

though I find Jung's descriptions lacking - probably due to the culture of the times and also 'cause I think he associated FE and TE too much with S and introversion too much with N and behavioral withdrawal, he describes a similar attitude to the above: (also kinda dramatic.. but the point is there)
Thanks for sharing, this makes a lot of sense.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top