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What goals do you consider most important for your country in the long run?

  • Maintaining the order of nation

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Giving the people more say in important government decisions

    Votes: 10 55.6%
  • Fighting rising process

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Protecting freedom of speech

    Votes: 8 44.4%

  • Total voters
    18
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

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Discussion Starter #1
"There is a lot of talk these days about what this country’s goals should be in the next ten or fifteen years. Would you please say which one of them you yourself consider most important in the long-run:

a) Maintaining the order of nation;
b) Giving the people more say in important government decisions
c) Fighting rising process; or
d) Protecting freedom of speech."

Acquisitive/materialist values reflect physical or economic insecurity, respondents chose items a) and c). Respondents having post-bourgeois/postmaterialist value-orientations choosing b) and d)
Inglehart, 1997, 994

A large body of evidence indicates that people's basic values are largely fixed when they reach adulthood, and change relatively little thereafter.
Rokeach, Milton(1968). Beliefs, Attitudes and Values.


The Inglehart Values Map visualizes the strong correlation of values in different cultures.

wiki said:
Cohorts which often experienced economic scarcity would ceteris paribus place a high value on meeting economic needs (such as valuing economic growth above protecting the environment) and on safety needs (will support more authoritarian styles of leadership, will exhibit strong feelings of national pride, will be strongly in favor of maintaining a large, strong army and will be more willing to sacrifice civil liberties for the sake of law and order). On the other hand, cohorts who have experienced sustained high material affluence start to give high priority to values such as individual improvement, personal freedom, citizen input in government decisions, the ideal of a society based on humanism, and maintaining a clean and healthy environment.
Further reading:
http://www.fnu.zmaw.de/fileadmin/fnu-files/publication/working-papers/inglehart.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I'm just asking because I have the idea that INFP's inherently lean towards Post-Materialist values: autonomy and self expression. What do you think about it?
 

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Bump. Nice attempt at an interesting topic, better than having the same few subjects discussed. Maybe I'll enjoy it if I get an explanation of "fighting rising process" and more people participate.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ah I guess it's a typo, copied it from the PDF. It's meant to be "Fighting rising prices." (inflation)

The question is a simple way into empirically measuring the spread of Post-Materialism in societies.

So basically people who grew up with a lot of scarcity lean towards answer A & C and value materialist values.
People who grew up without any concern regarding material needs lean towards answer B & D and value post-materialist values.

A figure showing a shift between values

More info and figures
Untitled Document
 

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I can't decide. All four of those things are important. I think many people don't realize that "More say," my first impulse, goes against maintaining order, because people are very different and end up fighting against other citizens over desired changes. The state of the USA today. Book reference: The Big Sort. Leaders need to listen and not anger most citizens, at the very least.
 

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My first instinct is to answer both A and D. I like order because, hey, I don't want a riot outside my house. But freedom of speech is also important. It really depends on what extreme one takes these to. Being orderly doesn't mean being oppressive, and I really dislike oppressiveness.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what is covered under "post-materialism." Going by the name alone, yes, I am post-materialist. I hate the way the US is run with its capitalism and consumer-oriented society. Heck, I'd probably support higher taxes if it meant more things like national health care and better citizen services. (I say probably because I don't live on my own yet.)

Could we have a short summary of what post-materialism is? Some people might be turned off by the official-ness of your links.
 

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Virtually all of the 4 choices are important in their own respects, but also incredibly dangerous as well and always make you think "... but at what expense?"

When I originally voted for this awhile back, I went with giving people more say in decisions, but I assumed too much in terms of people having a competent mind which takes into account their own feelings, but also others. In the end, it may result in a number of value clashes which is a problem in itself that compromises the "order of the nation" as you can never please everyone. Severe disagreements on serious issues can even lead to violent acts and quite possibly a civil war.

With that, and other things in mind, I think primary importance is to maintain a state of order. Naturally you can say that cruel dictators rule through that same general premise, but sometimes it's not about having the best plan, just that everyone is on board with it. Alternatively, you can have half-assed laws which basically please everyone to some extent, but often leads to important things being forgotten or ignored. In the end, there will always be victims, but it's about catering to the mass (depressing statement).

Anyways, my order.......
1st - Maintaining the order of nation;
2nd - Fighting rising process; (relates to above). Almost no one likes their gov, but if you can afford to eat, sleep, and get the odd luxury, then you'll still generally suffice.
3rd - Protecting freedom of speech." -- Sure you can say it, 9.99/10 it won't make a difference unless you can rally a significantly large group of people behind you (unlikelyyyyyyy). Regardless, it still gives people comfort to complain.
4th - Giving the people more say in important government decisions - From my own perspective I'd say "Sure, give me the whip and I'll fix a few things into shape," but I don't know if I trust Jack the Ripper down the street though. In the end, most people want to shed responsibility though, that's why we vote for people to do the work for us.

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Hopefully that was within the range of what you were looking for. I think people can argue anything, so i'm sure there are holes in every argument.
 

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I believe there's increasing demand for "More say" by the general popuation. (Probably not the SPs.) It worries me. I wish there were more demand for better leaders.
 

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I believe there's increasing demand for "More say" by the general popuation. (Probably not the SPs.) It worries me. I wish there were more demand for better leaders.
This might be because people want to think "more say" means the "right government" will suddenly exist. It doesn't work that way. More say doesn't equal a good society because the majority of people are, sadly, not smart. I agree, we really need better leaders more than we need more ability to vote.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So far it looks like people who voted indeed lean towards postmaterialist values.

The system is based on hierarchy of need, just like Maslow's triangle theory. Again, according to Inglehart's theory: if your nation already is in order and does have a steady economy, you'll lean towards answer B and D. The state of the nation effects your political preference.

My first instinct is to answer both A and D. I like order because, hey, I don't want a riot outside my house. But freedom of speech is also important. It really depends on what extreme one takes these to. Being orderly doesn't mean being oppressive, and I really dislike oppressiveness.

To be honest, I'm not really sure what is covered under "post-materialism." Going by the name alone, yes, I am post-materialist. I hate the way the US is run with its capitalism and consumer-oriented society. Heck, I'd probably support higher taxes if it meant more things like national health care and better citizen services. (I say probably because I don't live on my own yet.)

Could we have a short summary of what post-materialism is? Some people might be turned off by the official-ness of your links.
From worldvaluesurvey.com
A central component of this emerging dimension involves the polarization between Materialist and Postmaterialist values, reflecting a cultural shift that is emerging among generations who have grown up taking survival for granted. Self-expression values give high priority to environmental protection, tolerance of diversity and rising demands for participation in decision making in economic and political life. These values also reflect mass polarization over tolerance of outgroups, including foreigners, gays and lesbians and gender equality. The shift from survival values to self-expression values also includes a shift in child-rearing values, from emphasis on hard work toward emphasis on imagination and tolerance as important values to teach a child. And it goes with a rising sense of subjective well-being that is conducive to an atmosphere of tolerance, trust and political moderation. Finally, societies that rank high on self-expression values also tend to rank high on interpersonal trust.
This produces a culture of trust and tolerance, in which people place a relatively high value on individual freedom and self-expression, and have activist political orientations. These are precisely the attributes that the political culture literature defines as crucial to democracy.
 
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