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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The relationship between me and every boss I've had throughout my professional career has gone like this:

  1. The boss assigns me an easy project.
  2. I solve the project, but do so in a way the boss didn't expect.
  3. The boss freaks out, and decides from that point on that I'm smart but impractical.
  4. The boss has a brilliant idea about how to solve a problem.
  5. The boss shares this solution with me and I point out that I had presented it to him a few weeks ago and he blew it off.

Most bosses start paying attention to me more after step 5, but sometimes step 5 has to repeat a few times for it to really sink in.

As you can probably guess, this seems to happen more with J types. And I don't just mean ESTJs. In fact, I've had more problems with INTJs than other types. Does this happen to anyone else? Has anyone found any solutions to this?
 

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Stop showing up your bosses.

Just do you job and don't explain how you did it.

noone likes the smart guy.
 
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We are often too smart for our own good. In an idea world everyone would welcome our smart ideas but in the real world it will only seem as if we are trying to upstage the manager.

Of course, we dont HAVE an ego to speak off, but they dont know that. Bosses do not comprehend that we want to solve problems creatively just for the sake of solving problems creatively.
Perhaps its an idea to make the boss think it was his idea in the first place? Most fall for that ruse.
 

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Work for INTP bosses. Problem solved :p

As for INTJ bosses, the problem with Ni is that sometimes it can look over the information, pick up similar pieces it has seen before, reference something from past, and reject whatever it is presented on the grounds of not being novel. The emotion generated at this point in Ni-bearer ranges from slight boredom to anger aimed at people who he or she thinks are presenting same information as before (if you go to INTJ forum there is even a thread there about how they hate repetition). This may at times be misleading and make Ni overlook things that are actually novel and that actually matter. I sometimes find myself backtracking to things I have overlooked before - sounds like what you observe your bosses doing.

So the reason probably lies in way that you are presenting your information makes their Ni immediately reject it or get bored about it or delay processing it. Be more like ENTP in this manner. Don't just explain your idea in monotone voice like I have seen some INTPs do it. Stress the interesting and the new parts, impersonate the used-care salesman for a few minutes, advertise your solution to your boss. Remember that Ni really likes the parts where things click together, whereas describing something in great detail, part by part, is likely to make the Ni-bearer feel bored or frustrated and also wondering why all this detail matters anyways.
 

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Do you know why knowone listens to you? This is what I've discovered, only incompetent people get into management. Incompetent people surround themselfs with incompetent people. Incompetent people do not listen to and are afraid of competent people. INTPs can spot incompetent people a mile away. Incompetent people know that INTPs are dangerous to their surrvival. We are the damned.
 

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That sounds like a horrible position to be in. When I was in the Army, it got to a point where I would just stop offering opinions. Either no one would understand them, or someone would just re-package and re-present my idea as their own and get the credit. Such is life...
 

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Naah, I think this is just an old school management trick. I know a guy that has done this for 20 years now, and that is one of the reasons he's the boss. He loves hearing ideas, but tells everyone their idea is crap. Best idea in the world = 'crap.' Then months down the road, after he thinks everyone has forgotten (or perhaps he has) he submits it as his own. I would not put it past him to fire a person just to steal an idea.

I heard Edison did this often, and he did it to Tesla. When Tesla protested, Edison said something like,"Welcome to America." The result was Tesla going back to communism. I could be wrong, I am not looking at sources :laughing:

Anyhows, You have to go over his head, and do this in planned moves. He will be pissed and you tread dangerous ground, but such is high level mgmt. Otherwise just nod and smile like your co-workers. Show off some good ears by asking well formed questions. I asked for raises every time I submitted an idea, and became the highest paid in my group.
 

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If you can word questions to make it seem like it was your bosses idea that inspired you, then welcome to right-hand manhood. If he goes higher you are likely the first candidate he will promote for his spot.

Class, I want everyone to write this down :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Naah, I think this is just an old school management trick. I know a guy that has done this for 20 years now, and that is one of the reasons he's the boss. He loves hearing ideas, but tells everyone their idea is crap. Best idea in the world = 'crap.' Then months down the road, after he thinks everyone has forgotten (or perhaps he has) he submits it as his own. I would not put it past him to fire a person just to steal an idea.

I heard Edison did this often, and he did it to Tesla. When Tesla protested, Edison said something like,"Welcome to America." The result was Tesla going back to communism. I could be wrong, I am not looking at sources :laughing:

Anyhows, You have to go over his head, and do this in planned moves. He will be pissed and you tread dangerous ground, but such is high level mgmt. Otherwise just nod and smile like your co-workers. Show off some good ears by asking well formed questions. I asked for raises every time I submitted an idea, and became the highest paid in my group.
I doubt this is it. I honestly think that they just dismissed my solution without fully understanding them and then later "came up with them themselves".
 

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Naah, I think this is just an old school management trick. I know a guy that has done this for 20 years now, and that is one of the reasons he's the boss. He loves hearing ideas, but tells everyone their idea is crap. Best idea in the world = 'crap.' Then months down the road, after he thinks everyone has forgotten (or perhaps he has) he submits it as his own. I would not put it past him to fire a person just to steal an idea.
This is another possibility.

If you sense that your boss is doing it on purpose (i.e. he has an incentive to present your ideas as his own higher up the line somewhere) then this may very well be the case. I had this guy try this tactic on me - basically tell me my ideas aren't very good, try to publicly put me down during group meetings, imply my 'rank' isn't high enough to speak to anyone above him, but then in private volunteer to lend me his ear to pass my ideas by him. This was all very fascinating to observe. But he had incentive to do it. If you sense that your boss is in reality overlooking your ideas, for example he is explaining to you (not at a group meeting but you specifically) same idea you have explained to him before, then he probably hasn't completely heard you out before or hasn't given it sufficient thought. These two type of situations should be easy to tell apart.
 

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Does this happen to anyone else?
yes.

Has anyone found any solutions to this?
no. =\

sorry to be so unhelpful. I think this is a classic INTP problem.

it hasn't happened to me with bosses, but with other people about random things. like I will talk about something new and interesting and the person will just nod and change the subject. then weeks later the person will tell me about this new and exciting thing that someone else told them--and it was the exact same thing I had told them. maybe if I act excited when I'm talking they'll actually listen? I don't know.
 

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Ask for permission when you're trying to persuade someone of anything. Something like "do you mind if I talk to you about this?" Then they'll say yes, of course. If you just blurt out the idea, they'll be taken off guard.

Also make sure to stick to the meat of what you're trying to convince them off. I used to ramble and people just didn't pay attention. I also lay things out with bullet points or numbered lists if it's written to try to simplify as much as possible. I started that after paying attention to someone else that seemed to be able to convince people of ideas, and that's how he did it.

For Si users, give an example of when it has worked before, for someone else. An Si user will be hesitant to try something new, even if it's obvious that it will work, unless they know of an occasion that it worked before. Are you sure you're not mistyping the INTJs who are actually ISTJ?

For Ni users... I don't know. I'm still figuring out how that function works. I work with a few INTJs who are programmers, and usually I just start throwing out ideas, then they take one and modify it into a form that actually works to solve the problem we're dealing with.
 

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Has anyone found any solutions to this?
Self-employment. :/

In seriousness, the only bosses I've had that haven't driven me crazy with this situation are the ones who aren't obsessed with climbing the ladder themselves. One was a lifelong small-business owner (he never had ladders to climb, so he never developed these kinds of bad habits), and another had found a comfortable money-versus-responsibility balance within a huge company. Neither of them cared how something got done, as long at it was legal, profitable, and ended with good word-of-mouth advertising.
 

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Unfortunately, that isn't an option. I'm a programmer and it's essential that everyone else be able to find out how I do my job.
No it's not.

Give them just the information they need and nothing more.

They do not want, appreciate or understand your contribution.

Stop caring, problem solved.
 

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At the places I've worked I seem to be thought of as an idiot. It's quite annoying, and when I ever decide to actually voice an idea they seem dumbfounded someone like me could have thought of it >.>

I think INTP's are cursed to be perceived as idiots since becoming accepted isn't on the top of our list. We usually realize it would take too much work to prove our intelligence and since we don't have a superficial need for people to like us we generally just say "fuck it".... I suppose that may just be me.

But seriously, has anyone else had the problem of being perceived as an idiot wherever you work, when you clearly know you aren't (at least compared to the others where you work)?...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
At the places I've worked I seem to be thought of as an idiot. It's quite annoying, and when I ever decide to actually voice an idea they seem dumbfounded someone like me could have thought of it >.>

I think INTP's are cursed to be perceived as idiots since becoming accepted isn't on the top of our list. We usually realize it would take too much work to prove our intelligence and since we don't have a superficial need for people to like us we generally just say "fuck it".... I suppose that may just be me.

But seriously, has anyone else had the problem of being perceived as an idiot wherever you work, when you clearly know you aren't (at least compared to the others where you work)?...
I don't think I've ever really been thought of as an idiot. Rather they seem to feel that I'm very smart but disconnected from reality. Where does that stereotype of INTPs come from anyway? I'm very connected to reality. It just so happens I have a different take on it.
 
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