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Discussion Starter #1
I find it hard to be committed to religion because I have a hard time doing things solemnly for others. For me, it's all about being better than everyone else. I would end up worshipping for my own gain rather than the gains of others.

Does anyone else have this problem? State your religion and how you connect with it. Thanks!
 

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You choose to believe in it if you need an external motivation and guidance to do good or actually do something in life. To push you further. To help you be a better human, or a more productive being.

I never cared about the religion. I don't need it. I have myself, and friends.

Why do you think you need it?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You choose to believe in it if you need an external motivation and guidance to do good or actually do something in life. To push you further. To help you be a better human, or a more productive being.

I never cared about the religion. I don't need it. I have myself, and friends.

Why do you think you need it?
You may have gotten the wrong idea. I enjoy your curiosity, however, so I appreciate you asking. I never thought I needed religion, but I grew up in a religious household, so I've always wondered why I'm the only one in my family who doesn't connect. I recently wondered if the enneagram had anything do to with people and their decisions of faith, so now I'm collecting data for myself based on the results I receive. Therefore, I thank you.
 

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I don't find religion necessary. I also can't fathom personally connecting to it.
 

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I don't find religion necessary. I also can't fathom personally connecting to it.
Really? Then, do you believe that there is any connection at all as to why people may join or remain in religious groups?
 

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You may have gotten the wrong idea. I enjoy your curiosity, however, so I appreciate you asking. I never thought I needed religion, but I grew up in a religious household, so I've always wondered why I'm the only one in my family who doesn't connect. I recently wondered if the enneagram had anything do to with people and their decisions of faith, so now I'm collecting data for myself based on the results I receive. Therefore, I thank you.
While growing, you found better, more reliable ways, structures you used to answer certain questions and solve problems. Religion was not good enough for you, or something made you not to believe it, or stay away from it (perhaps some people you disliked a lot were religious or something like that).

Does not have much to do with enneagram. I mean, you could find some correlations I guess, but they would be very weak.

Consider this example. Why does, let's say Joshua, want to become a programmer? Perhaps he wants to belong to that group of programmers, as he likes them and wants to be one of them?
Similar with religion. If you see cool people in religious environment, you will likely become religious.
 

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While growing, you found better, more reliable ways, structures you used to answer certain questions and solve problems. Religion was not good enough for you, or something made you not to believe it, or stay away from it (perhaps some people you disliked a lot were religious or something like that).

Does not have much to do with enneagram. I mean, you could find some correlations I guess, but they would be very weak.

Consider this example. Why does, let's say Joshua, want to become a programmer? Perhaps he wants to belong to that group of programmers, as he likes them and wants to be one of them?
Similar with religion. If you see cool people in religious environment, you will likely become religious.
I can agree with you to an extent. However, some people do not join up on the bandwagon just because cool people are doing it, I feel. It never crossed my mind thinking that someone would not join a religion just because a few people they don't like are doing it. I guess it can hold some truth, but I doubt that would be any major reason for the majority of people. Your idea may work for buying certain items, but I feel as if religion is not a product to be bought, but rather, a mindset to have.

I always thought that people joined a religion for a reason other than fitting in or being like others around them, but everyone must have their own reasons, I guess. I would have thought it to be something more than what you have put it to be, however. I mean, don't people find religion to seek their better selves and achieve salvation, forgiving themselves and others to become the best person they can be?

At the beginning of your reply, about finding the better structure that works for me, I see the most truth behind that. This is what led me to wonder if religion had anything to do with the Enneagram. Since people are all built differently, I wondered about the structure of life they made for themselves and if it is based on the way they are built a.k.a. the enneagram or MBTI.
 

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I can agree with you to an extent. However, some people do not join up on the bandwagon just because cool people are doing it, I feel. It never crossed my mind thinking that someone would not join a religion just because a few people they don't like are doing it. I guess it can hold some truth, but I doubt that would be any major reason for the majority of people. Your idea may work for buying certain items, but I feel as if religion is not a product to be bought, but rather, a mindset to have.

I always thought that people joined a religion for a reason other than fitting in or being like others around them, but everyone must have their own reasons, I guess. I would have thought it to be something more than what you have put it to be, however. I mean, don't people find religion to seek their better selves and achieve salvation, forgiving themselves and others to become the best person they can be?

At the beginning of your reply, about finding the better structure that works for me, I see the most truth behind that. This is what led me to wonder if religion had anything to do with the Enneagram. Since people are all built differently, I wondered about the structure of life they made for themselves and if it is based on the way they are built a.k.a. the enneagram or MBTI.
I focused on people who are unlikely to become religious. For example, you and me. Actually, most of the people in the world right now.

You are right if we look at the general population. People become religious as religion helps them to understand their objectives, how to be good, decent people.

It was different ages ago, when ideas such as "do that to be a great man" were "trending" in the world. Now, there are people who become religious for reasons you suggested, but I feel like the gap between such people and those who become religious because of "small" reasons as the ones I suggested, is getting smaller.

I think it would make more sense to find a correlation between MBTI and religion rather than enneagram and religion. Yet, this one would not likely produce any good results either.

Fi doms -- if spiritual, very strongly, fe doms often on the edge etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I focused on people who are unlikely to become religious. For example, you and me. Actually, most of the people in the world right now.

You are right if we look at the general population. People become religious as religion helps them to understand their objectives, how to be good, decent people.

It was different ages ago, when ideas such as "do that to be a great man" were "trending" in the world. Now, there are people who become religious for reasons you suggested, but I feel like the gap between such people and those who become religious because of "small" reasons as the ones I suggested, is getting smaller.

I think it would make more sense to find a correlation between MBTI and religion rather than enneagram and religion. Yet, this one would not likely produce any good results either.

Fi doms -- if spiritual, very strongly, fe doms often on the edge etc.
Thanks for your imput. I guess it really depends on more than one factor in life. I was only wondering if it had a large difference or not, but I guess I was getting too caught up in the details.
 

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Shouldn’t faith be involved in joining a religion? Kind of pointless to join a religious group if you don’t believe in the key points of their beliefs. That’s why there are so many different groups with in each major religion, because at some point some members of one group might have been dissatisfied with how things were structured or even with the interpretations of holy books.

And in a couple of cases, like the mormons, someone claimed they had received a message from god or had a vision of what god wants humans to do.

Personally though I’m a non believer. I don’t believe in god, I don’t believe in anything supernatural (angels, demons, ghosts), I don’t believe in heaven or hell. So for me joining a religious group would be difficult because I’d probably find most of their beliefs to be hogwash and it would be a waste of my time. Luckily for me I grew up in a very secular country so being a non believer never posed a problem for me. I didn’t grow up in a religious family where faith or religion was forced upon me. No sending me to Sunday school and such.

I have gotten the impression that for Some people in some places in the US can experience issues when they don’t want to continue to be members of their religious group b/c of being non believers.
 

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I find it hard to be committed to religion because I have a hard time doing things solemnly for others. For me, it's all about being better than everyone else. I would end up worshipping for my own gain rather than the gains of others.

Does anyone else have this problem? State your religion and how you connect with it. Thanks!
You should read the Quran, if only for what I'm about to say about being connected to everything/everyone. I identify strongly with what you say, worshipping for your own gain rather than the gain of others. I think that there are no selfless acts. I also think that Reality is One, so it doesn't really matter anyway. We are all connected and there is no escaping that how we affect others/the world, we are affected.

My "religion" is the best of the religions. I've read the New Testament, the Quran, the Dhammapada, listened to the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita (they're on my reading list, will get to them one day), and read/listened to a number of assorted spiritual teachers across the main religions.

The etymology of religion is something like one's own obligation or what one feels compelled to do. As stated above, I believe that we are all connected, and so my beneficence toward others can't help but me returned to me. Do I want the return? Yes! And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I give to gain with one small caveat: I have surrendered the gain. If I get it or dont get it doesn't really matter to me. I have accepted death and the ending of life as I know it. One day, all that I "love" will be gone. I'm already dead, as the great warriors say.

Another "selfish" part of giving and beneficence is the recognition and the admiration gained from it. People really love a giver. And yet it benefits the recipient and it great role modeling behavior. People want to be like that if they're worth anything.

Some people really mess up a good thing like religion... "It's Jesus or hell!" "Sinner!" "No fun or pleasure on earth, you must wait for heaven!" ... And they dupe unsuspecting people who, to their detriment don't form their own opinion.

The New Testament says all the law and prophets hang on, "Love the Lord your God with everything you've got, and love your neighbor as yourself."

The Quran says, "those who believe and do good deeds will enter paradise and they will have nothing to fear and nothing to regret."

The Buddha has said, "the righteous are happy here and Hereafter." And "those who think good and pure thoughts will do good and pure things, and they will be happy, and their happiness will *never* leave them [here or Hereafter]."

The Bhagavad Gita says, "No one who does good deeds will ever come to a bad end, either here or in the world to come. When such people die, they go to other realms where the righteous live."

Yet, what is a good deed? It is interesting that it is left up to the interpreter, and many differ over what it is. I take that as an invitation to come to my own conclusions.

"Surrender [to God, Reality, Truth, whatever you want to call it]" is another key concept in the religions I've studied. Hinduism says that good deeds performed for the sake of gain are essentially negated.

So, I think it's simple:
1) surrender to God all of your desires (but still strive on toward what you want, just with detachment) & accept Reality as it is
2) do good deeds & be a benefit to people, to life
3) have faith in good things to come
 

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Seems like the consensus so far is that 3's aren't so religious so sorry if I'm busting anything up. :wink:

I'm a Christian. Questioned religion real hard as a young person but ended up believing in it, though with some changes in the ideals I'd been taught. It's deeply important to me.

How I connect with it, complicated question. I mean yeah, church & all but church is not that important in my faith even though I go. The most real connections with God/my faith have been when I'm struggling with something. The best thing is when I sort of open myself up emotionally (which feels scary & I don't always do it) to the Mystery I believe is out there that we call God, it's like opening your eyes in a huge dark space and seeing if you see anything & believe it or not I do sometimes. I treasure those times. Sometimes in moments when I'm feeling a sense of worthlessness there's a lot of reassurance in that darkness, even a sense of being held. To me God offers the chance of getting past living for other people's attention, the chance of believing you really are worth something just in yourself, just in being a person. Someone's creation/child that they treasure.

The other place I've found God is in my work. I'm a writer. It's complicated & maybe this is enough for today. But at moments of greatest inspiration as I write I've found a surprising sense that it isn't only myself at work.

I do identify with the whole "making religion a competitive arena for being The Best in" pitfall as well though. I did that real hard in Bible college (oh Lord, Bible college... not necessarily a healthy environment esp for someone like me...) and it may have had a lot to do with the faith crisis that came after. Religion is only good for a 3 as a place to escape your ego, not indulge it for damn sure.
 

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I find it hard to be committed to religion because I have a hard time doing things solemnly for others. For me, it's all about being better than everyone else. I would end up worshipping for my own gain rather than the gains of others.

Does anyone else have this problem? State your religion and how you connect with it. Thanks!
religion in the larger sense, faith, belief systems, spirituality... its been a part of humanity , probably since we became self aware, conscious.

people typically need something to believe in to keep them going. this mechanism has been used to control people and the mob.

i dont think religion/faith/spirituality has anything to do with 'doing things solemnly for others'. actually, i find that when the individual is allowed to be the most selfish and ignore all outside voices but their own, they prosper... and if they prosper enough, that wealth is shared by those around them.
 
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