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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen something... about friendships, the more time goes by the more solid it looks, some people notice this too and there are some nice articles/research about it. When described, some people deny how building close friendships becomes harder over time (we don't have as many time available as in the past and time is important building relationships, but that's just one factor). Long story short... we can find people with no real friends or not even one friend at all but they... don't know it, they think they have friends (when they... don't).

Friends are a valuable and rare treasure.

There are some nice readings (and if you are smart enough you can notice this yourself), you can build a "love" relationship easier than a close real friendship. Hell, to many, the aspects of friendship are not even present in their relationships and they are ok with it, they don't even notice the absence (there was a nice thread about this here in the forum). Funny enough, you can have friendships (if you do have friends) lasting longer than a love relationship.

So, do you have friends? people you can count on?
 
I'm 40 now, so it's not easy to slip false arguments or imaginary truths to me specially if I know you. I know a lot of people who think they have friends, real friends "brothers" but as years go by, I've seen how when problems appear, they are alone, or... simply put, it's strangers who help them, this involves car problems, getting sick, needing money, emotional support when relationships fail, grief, blood donnors, etc. This also applies to many people I know deep into churchs and religions, so think twice before saying you have friends


And, does your parents have any friends?


  • If yes or no, how this affects you?
  • Do they try to impose their reality on you?
  • As you age, do you see similarities in your life to your parents?
  • Do you even think friends exist? is friendship possible?
 

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So, do you have friends? people you can count on?
Maybe. I think my friends would be there for me for short-term things, but I don't think they would be much help for long-term problems.

And, do your parents have any friends?
I don't think so.

If yes or no, how this affects you?
I don't think it does.

Do they try to impose their reality on you?
They never really have in any way.

As you age, do you see similarities in your life to your parents?
There are many similarities, but many differences as well.

Do you even think friends exist? is friendship possible?
Yes, definitely.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My mother is narcissistic, my sister too, in fact she is the golden child, I'm the lost boy/scapegoat. If you are not familiar with this, it means my mother wants to be the center of attention, is manipulative and doesn't show caring to me as to my sister. Anything that happens to me is not important and I've been the focus of blame projection, a victim of indiference over the years. My sister is her other self so everything that happens to her is of the most importance, sure my parents split. Most of what narcissistic parents do is try to destroy your confidence and boundaries, your value as a human being.

Thus... I had my family repeating on me, that friends don't exist, that I don't have any friends, that nobody will ever love me, etc etc etc.

Sure I don't live there anymore and I do have friends, the ones taking shifts to take care of me when sick after a surgery, a kind of support I never knew coming from my sister, relationships so nice, warm and loyal that make my sister (my own blood) look like a cruel indiferent stranger. My mother life along the years and what I have seen with my own eyes show... she doesn't have any friends. My uncle, her brother... doesn't have any friends. I've been close to him the last years and the more you are near the more it sucks being near, he lives alone, his family only tolerates contact at some distance. Long story short: both my uncle and mother live alone and people keep little contact.

And no, they don't give any signs of having friends. They critizice "friendships" and if you give a hint of thinking they don't have friends, both try to say they do have friends and the brother/sister doesn't. Still, every story of the past they tell shows no signs of having a friend helping on anything. They are isolated, both with personality traits that makes them hard to have a round, both are sweet at first but increasingly irritating. Anyone who gets in touch slowly disappear.


I've seen here and in other areas how some parents... if bitter in some way, try to push their children to believe that good thing that never happened to them, will never happen to their children because it doesn't exist, such as friends. My grandparents were very different, very loved, it sucks to see older people in your family so isolated and so bitter. So Im curious how your parents life affects yours in terms of similarities.
 

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So, do you have friends? people you can count on?

Yes I have friends- many

And, does your parents have any friends?


My Enfj mother has one friend and many acquaintances- she devoted her life to raising me ( I wish she didn't)

My intp have 1 , my grandmother known her best friend since the age of 5 ( they're both 101 now and very much alive ) I call my grandma best friend grandma- her kids took care of my grandmother when my grandma come visits her - and vice versa . She's like family to us. To the point that her grandkids seems like cousins to me .

  • If yes or no, how this affects you?
    I'm close with my mom's bff, I view and see her as an aunt , they have a sisterly relationship- it makes me feel good to know that there is somebody out there who looks out for my mother .

    My grandmother bff I love - I look up to her and trust in her, she gives me insightful advice . I consider her family and always have - since the moment I met her I was drawn to her . She would risk her life for my grandmother

    My Entp father have many friends ( a lot) and now that he's dying they're here for him even more

  • Do they try to impose their reality on you?

    Yes my mother often say the moment you have a family or kids then friends should all be diminish . After she had me she lost contacts with many of her friends ( she was very extroverted) and focus solely on me ( my mother was a single mom working 3 jobs - I have never felt neglected for all her focus was on my happiness ) . It's quite annoying actually - because her value isn't the same as mine .

    My father and grandmother never talk of friendship but they often talk fondly about their friends

  • As you age, do you see similarities in your life to your parents?

    No - I value friendship and I have many friends. The longer i know them the more I love them - marriage and kids doesn't make me value our friendship less. I'm the first one out of all my friends to have kids - I don't distance myself from them after kids . Most of my close friends considered me family for we have known each other since childhood and our parents watched over us. If a friend is need of help - finance /emotional support/ a place to live in - I'll gladly offer and know for a fact that they'll do the same for me . ( my isfp bff lived with me for a few years- he became close with my husband thanks to that )


    I feel like adding this piece

    Oddly enough my istp husband ( who started off valuing his friends more than anything- I've seen him move mountains and risk his own happiness for his friends) has no friends- he called them all acquaintances after marriage and purposely distance himself away from them- saying the relationship never were. It's sad to watch bc these people did not leave him and wanted to be on his life but he decided that they were dramatic and causes him more stress than comfort
    So now he has no friends and tons of acquaintances ( it used to be the other way around)
    No clue why this occurred

  • Do you even think friends exist? is friendship possible?
    Of course friendship exist and it is possible- treating people the way that I want to be treated and don't set expectations on them. I'm fortunate I have many great friends who I know would help me out whenever i need help . Oh yeah consistency isn't a theme for me- I don't need to see or interact with my close friends on a weekly / monthly basis - I know that they're always there .



    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
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I don't have friends, because I don't value friendship. It has no purpose in my life.

"Valuable" and "treasure" aren't words I would use to describe friendship, no.

I did have friendships in the past, which is how I realized it's all a farse and it has no purpose other than strange pointless irrational obligations.

And, does your parents have any friends?
  • If yes or no, how this affects you?
  • Do they try to impose their reality on you?
  • As you age, do you see similarities in your life to your parents?
  • Do you even think friends exist? is friendship possible?
1. No, they don't. My ISFJ father has never had friends, he says he doesn't see the point, friendships have no value for him. He's always been super social, but he will tell you in secret that he keeps everyone at arm's length and considers no one a friend. He knows a ton of people, and hangs out with them, goes to lunches and dinners and stuff, but he says they're not friends, they're just an excuse to socialize and eat good food. He doesn't get involved at a personal level.
My extroverted mother used to have 2 friends in the span of 20 years. Eventually she realized that friendships have no value to her, as it's only a bunch of obligations, and people will desert you when you truly need them. So she cut ties with the people and in the last few years focuses only on cultivating superficial acquaintances that benefit her financially or socially.

2. My parents' social lives don't affect me. If anything, I have affected them. They used to tell me for years "Why don't you make friends? It's healthy to have friends" and I would lecture them on how friendships are pointless, and you're better cultivating acquaintances that benefit you financially or for entertainment purposes. After years, they ended up agreeing with me and have joined my club in recent years.

3. They used to try impose their reality on me, when I was younger. But then they saw that I'm smart, and they realised I was right all along, and like I said, they joined my club in a very natural way after they had their own epiphanies about friendship and how overrated it is.

4. Yes, tons of similarities. It's astonishing to witness how family-focused an reliable I've become. In many ways I'm the spitting image of my ISFJ father. Now my parents rely on me for a lot of things, and I enjoy the responsibilities 100%

5. I would say it exists for some people. It doesn't exist for me. I just don't see the value. Friendships have never added any value to my life, none. But if they add value to other ppl's lives, great, go for it. To each their own. I don't think there's a Universal truth for this, and whoever says there is, they're just stupid in my mind.
 
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I don't have friends, because I don't value friendship. It has no purpose in my life.

"Valuable" and "treasure" aren't words I would use to describe friendship, no.

I did have friendships in the past, which is how I realized it's all a farse and it has no purpose other than strange pointless irrational obligations.
YES!! Finally someone who understands!!:penguin:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for sharing. What I had/have in mind with the questions (beyond knowing the answers) is how (complex) your/our parents can push children due to their bad experiences. Love exists regardless of me experiencing it, friendship exists regardless of me experiencing it or not, etc. But some people can become so bitter they preach their own conclusions, perhaps even trying to step on some truths to make their bitter lies possible.

First... my mother and uncle live alone, isolated, not by personal choice, it's just they are so difficult to tolerate people grow far from them. They do talk about God, being good, nice, etc, but at close distance they are impossible to tolerate. They are nicer by the distance. The closer you are, the worse your experience. This can be difficult when you are the "son", because you live there, and people can have it difficult believing your parents are difficult people. I know other families who have big group pictures (let's leave aside if that's real or not), in our family... the more numerous picture has only 4 members, we had links and relationships with many family members but at the end you get the idea, every one stays apart from everyone. (survival?)

I enjoy being alone. Yet I have some social skills and didn't experience problems having "friends", sure some friends suck, but some don't. After some years when my mother reached certain age, she insisted that friends don't exist. Her arguments were bases mostly (absolutely) on the bad experiences she had, and anything good I had would be questioned. Friends caring for me would be accused of being bad people. The more noble the act they did, the worse my mother would react in disbelief, just like my uncle. At the end it's sad to discover they are both very, very bitter people isolated from everyone.

Yes I had difficult experiences, and then I almost... almost concluded friendship doesn't exist, etc. But life was greater and proved me wrong. Such experiences made some members of my family show visible discomfort, perhaps jealousy, perhaps hurt because they were the ones having to give such support but they didn't, I don't know, but I'm clear now my mother and uncle (to his family) tried to impose their bitter conclusions, not for survival (training their children) but due to pure bitterness. Thats like me coming to a forum saying nobody loves you because someone doesn't love me.


At the end... the thread is not about me... it's also an invitation to everyone. We might experience problems on our relationships and still FAIL to see how related this is to our parents, and we might fail to realize how similar we can be to them (or not). Some people become their parents and thus unable to love, because they learn only the bitter bad parts.
 

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I don't have friends, because I don't value friendship. It has no purpose in my life.

"Valuable" and "treasure" aren't words I would use to describe friendship, no.

I did have friendships in the past, which is how I realized it's all a farse and it has no purpose other than strange pointless irrational obligations.



1. No, they don't. My ISFJ father has never had friends, he says he doesn't see the point, friendships have no value for him. He's always been super social, but he will tell you in secret that he keeps everyone at arm's length and considers no one a friend. He knows a ton of people, and hangs out with them, goes to lunches and dinners and stuff, but he says they're not friends, they're just an excuse to socialize and eat good food. He doesn't get involved at a personal level.
My extroverted mother used to have 2 friends in the span of 20 years. Eventually she realized that friendships have no value to her, as it's only a bunch of obligations, and people will desert you when you truly need them. So she cut ties with the people and in the last few years focuses only on cultivating superficial acquaintances that benefit her financially or socially.

2. My parents' social lives don't affect me. If anything, I have affected them. They used to tell me for years "Why don't you make friends? It's healthy to have friends" and I would lecture them on how friendships are pointless, and you're better cultivating acquaintances that benefit you financially or for entertainment purposes. After years, they ended up agreeing with me and have joined my club in recent years.

3. They used to try impose their reality on me, when I was younger. But then they saw that I'm smart, and they realised I was right all along, and like I said, they joined my club in a very natural way after they had their own epiphanies about friendship and how overrated it is.

4. Yes, tons of similarities. It's astonishing to witness how family-focused an reliable I've become. In many ways I'm the spitting image of my ISFJ father. Now my parents rely on me for a lot of things, and I enjoy the responsibilities 100%

5. I would say it exists for some people. It doesn't exist for me. I just don't see the value. Friendships have never added any value to my life, none. But if they add value to other ppl's lives, great, go for it. To each their own. I don't think there's a Universal truth for this, and whoever says there is, they're just stupid in my mind.
So you have no friends whatsoever? Do you have family members you spend time with or acquaintances you just don't consider friends?oh or I guess an SO? I only ask because there's a lot of research behind humans needing some sort of companionship. So while I do get some people don't need friends. I'm guessing you just hangout with your family but I'm curious nonetheless.
 

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I don't think you can build any close relationship easily. Even love relationships could be called 'love' when they actually aren't.
I have a sea of acquaintances and 3 very close friends. I'm not sure if age has to do with it but I think having similarities and going through or getting brought things together helps a friendship immensely. I can find plenty of people who like to debate,play video games, hike, skydive,read, etc. But it's harder finding people I can truly trust and have a deeper connection with, this takes time and I guess in turn can correlate with age.

So I think close friends are a rarity.
My parents do have friends. My mother has a few just to do stuff with sometimes. They aren't close friends. She dumped the 2 she had after realizing they suck, even though I had been telling her that for years lol. But it didn't matter because she's not the type to need or truly want friends.
Dad has 2 close ones, they've been friends for 30 years since they were like 15. Like me, he has a ton of acquaintances he sparingly gives time to.

My mom always tries to impose her reality on me. I listen and make my own decisions. I like having close friends and I'm a good judge of character. I don't let losers into my life even as acquaintances, unless I must for work and even then it's kept at 'good morning.' I'm nice to everyone though and acquaintances are good for connections for work and things like that.

Eh, only 18. But I think I'm probably more similar to my dad. And friends exist people just don't always know how to find real ones.
 

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I don't have a lot of friends

But most of my staple friends I have known over 15 years

A few of my friends may initially try and impose something. But usually they back off. Most people close to me know an easy way to trigger me to blow is to try and impose on many. Most of the time I am easy going. I am probably the last person someone wants to impose on. I am a stubborn MF and I can go from so 0 to 80 fast. It usually only takes me having to react like that and remind people to remember their place once every few years. But yes because I can be easy going majority sometimes people for get their place and over step boundaries. I really haven't dealt with it too recent. I was dealing with it more about two years ago. I think maybe just some outside circumstances were making me quieter than normal letting more slip by until I blew at a few.

Actually though I am pretty good at maintaining long lasting friendships overall. Given how much I have moved in life etc and always having a network from every age group and keeping in touch.

That said I actually put friends further down a list time wise. I just provide quality when I am around rather than quantity.

My dad was a very gregarious ENFP he had many people show up to his funeral. He always had friends.
Actually imo he prioritized friends WAY too much. (I have priorities above friends, like my kids)

My mom doesn't care to maintain friendships regularly like most people. She is close to a few people. My mom has issues that should be clinically diagnosed however in regards to PTSD, and OCD, etc. she has some like extra extra extra trust issues as far as speaking candidly with others. She really doesn't trust anyone except my INFJ sis. I already know why she doesn't trust me. It goes with that lash and thrash I have when someone imposes. I can get absolutely brutal hold up the largest mirror ever to people who don't stfu. I have done it to my mom. I am her eldest and I probably have the largest ability to destroy her ego. I have actually been more gentle than my sis though in some ways. My sis and my mom are so much alike. So my sis will nit pic my mom. Anyways I don't do that. Those two do it to each other. (This is the kinda shit which makes me lash out). To me that is more demoralizing than one alone hard knock blow. Daily bickering ugh. Gross. Also imo my mom and my sis enable each other's neuroticism. Where as when each comes to me independent if they ask I am like.... uh no. Wtf. My sis INFJ is my and moms best friend. I am not my moms best friend nor she with I. My general view of my mom "you want the truth, no you can't actually handle the fucken truth"
 

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1 So you have no friends whatsoever? 2 Do you have family members you spend time with 3 or acquaintances you just don't consider friends? 4 oh or I guess an SO? 5 I only ask because there's a lot of research behind humans needing some sort of companionship. So while I do get some people don't need friends. I'm guessing you just hangout with your family but I'm curious nonetheless.
1. Nope. Last time I had a friend, it was 8 years ago. That year I dumped them all, never regretted a thing. Best decision I made for my mental sanity. I had a friend 4 years ago, but that lasted 2 months.

2. Of course. Usually once a week we hang out. But sometimes I extend it to two weeks. Sometimes I go a month without texting them or calling or seeing them, I don't have the energy or desire to dedicate to that. I'd rather be indoors reading my pile of books and making artsy stuff.

3. I have many acquaintances yes, I hang out with them 3 times a year. Which means sometimes I go two years without talking to a person and then boom we suddenly hang out, then never speak again for two years, etc. These are people that I rotate, and they rotate me, it's an unspoken mutual agreement. Acquaintances are great for favors. I use them for practical things that help me achieve my goals, and I allow them to use me, meaning that if they ask a favor I will do it, bearing in mind that they will return the favor. Acquaintances are like a business deal.

4. No SO.

5. Yes, I know the research, however I think it's blown out of proportion. I can go months without human contact, I just get groceries delivered to my doorsteps and I focus on my art and forget the world. My parents have gone six months without hearing from me in the past. Easy. Introverts' thresholds for socializing are different from individual to individual, and I don't think there's a blanket statement that can describe humans's needs.
 
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