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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I had to restate myself twice within two minutes today. I started thinking, could this lead to a lifelong social introverted conditioning? Or 'I need to grasp your understanding before you can grasp mine.'

The result of not doing this would be wasted energy, and would explain why large social settings are often draining. The listener's understanding determines the amount of explanation needed from me. It would explain a tendency to gravitate to some intelligent people who require less energy from me in socializing. It would explain many things.

My understanding is limited, but my questioning and reasoning goes against this (common?) view on introversion in some ways -
Furthermore, each of these four processes can be directed inwardly (introverted), which means it's conceptualized subjectively in terms of the self, or externally (extroverted), which means it's conceptualized objectively in terms of not-self.

Introverted attitudes view the outer world in terms of the self's subjective ideal, so they attempt to make the outer world more like the inner self. Their focus is deeper but less expansive--they can see all the implications of one idea at a time.
Do you have to restate yourself often?
Do you do this for the listener's benefit?
Do you think introversion may be a learned behavior, possibly still being reinforced?
May I have your thoughts on this?
 

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I know exactly where you're coming from; dumbing down your speech sucks. 'Tis why I try not to hang out with the...less intellectually inclined members of society.

I mean, if I have to I will, but it is always grating. I do it every day at work.
 
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Yes to all of the questions. It's not extremely draining until someone walks out on you mid-conversation just because he/she can't understand you.
 
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I often find myself having to do this and it's extremely irritating. It comes about because either 1) they didn't understand me the first time, so I'm re-stating it to try and explain better (which very often has to do with being able to have something make complete sense internally, but not so much when trying to verbalize it) or 2) they weren't listening.

When I have to re-state something that seems to me to be completely obvious and coherent, especially over and over again, it becomes very draining to me. If I have to beat something into someone's head it just tends to not be worth the effort. If someone isn't going to be attentive enough to catch whatever I'm saying, then it typically indicates a lack of interest/respect for my opinions, in which case I'm not going to waste my time telling them something they aren't going to listen to.
 

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Definitely. I'm an auto-correcting machine, almost every single time I speak. It sounds somewhere between a broken robot and psychobabble. This restating often leads to rapid (and unnecessary) over-analysis that ultimately leads to regret or rendition of the idea - which itself is excruciating because it may cause misunderstanding, and I HATE letting things linger without clarification.

It's a matter of correctness, regardless of whether the listener is concerned or not - they're receiving the truth (unless I just don't care about the matter and I'm just babbling). I restate and repeat things to make sure my point is clear, even if it is exhausting at times. Depends on importance.
 

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Do you have to restate yourself often?

Everytime I open my mouth outside of small talk.

Do you do this for the listener's benefit?

If I feel that it is worth the effort.

Do you think introversion may be a learned behavior, possibly still being reinforced?

Reinforced by yourself and those around you. They pick up on your demeanor and will make an initial attempt to be cheerful if they think you look sad. When they do not see the normal reply of you lighting up since you actually got attention, they then decide that you are a hopeless "anti-social" (when in fact they don't like the idea that you do not find them interesting because all they could say was that they think that you have a cool hat) and try to leave the area. This event then reinforces the introverts belief that people are boring and going home to do anything is more exciting than being around other sets of people. (yes that includes looping Frank Sinatra's Love and Marriage for 3 hours straight or reading Wild Animus) EDIT: Tiger Woods was reported to have done this exact thing after a press conference related to his recent divorce :wink:
 

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I find myself doing that a lot. I see people looking puzzled or reacting in ways that make it clear they have not understood what I said.
Often, what I say has many more dimensions and more depth to it than I seem to be able to communicate. Perhaps that is a lack of skill on my part, although i find that when talking to other flexible thinkers communication is much easier.
 

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Yes to all questions, but I think part of the problem is my way of speaking. It's easier in writing, but I know make much less sense face-to-face.
What you said about learned behaviour is really interesting, because when I was younger I had good communication skills, but my peers kept asking me not to use such long words. I learned to use small words, but you need a lot more of them because they often have less precise definitions. Another thing is that many people won't even try to understand you if they feel intimidated by the way you speak (especially while you're young), so I tried to be very non-threatening. My speech went downhill from there.
I'd be interested to know whether anyone else has had a deterioration like this. If you think introversion may be learned, does this mean that you could have been different? Have you changed in response to your environment?
 

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The ideas make perfect sense in my head so I feel others should too. Well, as it turns out they don't. I have to reword myself multiple times, usually ending with having to make a horrible metaphors for it because others can't think abstractly enough.
 

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Do you think introversion may be a learned behavior, possibly still being reinforced?

I've wondered this too.

If we restrict it to INT's, introversion is much more "learned" than what is "natural". In talking with the general public it seems that I am not alone in having a running list of topics just so I still pass as normal. So, in a way repressing the actual personality to be more extroverted. Oftentimes, just trying to avoid the conversation.

On the other hand, I was recently out with a person whom I just found out is a confirmed INTP (one of the rare females). I am currently travelling in Europe and hadn't yet run into an ideas person. I was quite chatty to say the least.

My recent thinking in this area is that society is responsible for messing with introverts' self-concept. Mostly in placing a huge value on being well liked by the masses and having a great group of supportive and like-minded friends. There are other ways... you just need to be up for the challenge
 

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Do you have to restate yourself often?
Too often I would say. I tend to use "complex vocabulary"(as most of people say) in my native language. It is quite irritating when you use simple(for You, of course) words and even then you need to repeat. Even more infuriating is when you see that they want you to say it even more simplified manner. Which in my case leads to fear of omitting some important portion of data.

Do you do this for the listener's benefit?
For the purpose of Clarity, for the good of dialogue. This means - yes I do this for the listener's benefit and for My benefit.

Do you think introversion may be a learned behavior, possibly still being reinforced?
Well... Yes. From my point of view it strongly correlates with your own words: The listener's understanding determines the amount of explanation needed from me. It would explain a tendency to gravitate to some intelligent people who require less energy from me in socializing. It would explain many things.
Lets face it. Socializing tax our reserves right? If we connect this with fact that we are often forced to clarify our own statement what will we gain? Frustration or assumption that our listener is somewhat dumb. That makes us think "Who the hell need to speak with idiots?"
You are lucky when you are able find people which whom you share interests. Then you catches that's not true but your own logical error.
Another factor is that I tend to use long words with exact meaning. This make people uncomfortable. They are starting to see you as arrogant and somebody who is "trying to prove the he is intellectually superior"(By the way how often you get that one?). This is one big misunderstanding, at least when it comes to me. I just want speak clearly and plain logic. I also tend to be quite passionate about topics which I found interesting.
I have perfect example of that few days ago. I spoke with some stranger(named Bogdan if I remember right). It was about religion and faith(He is Baptist when I am Agnostic). It was quite fun. After that my friend told me that people was staring at us in disbelief, awe and fear.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
When I wrote this thread, I fought with myself over using 'dumbing down.' I thought, maybe the issue does lie with my tone, concept, or coherency? I realize that ether way, the result is more often a conformity from me. I say that this is done for the purpose of the listener because someone has to do this. If not, it becomes an impasse. I do not wish for a battle of wills. I do not wish to express superiority to anyone; I wish for communication to occur. When I do meet someone that conforms to my communication, it feels like meeting a sage or priest. That is a very rare experience for me.

What you said about learned behaviour is really interesting, because when I was younger I had good communication skills, but my peers kept asking me not to use such long words. I learned to use small words, but you need a lot more of them because they often have less precise definitions. Another thing is that many people won't even try to understand you if they feel intimidated by the way you speak (especially while you're young), so I tried to be very non-threatening. My speech went downhill from there.
I'd be interested to know whether anyone else has had a deterioration like this. If you think introversion may be learned, does this mean that you could have been different? Have you changed in response to your environment?
I feel the same way as this. I do feel that I had, and still have, a possible deterioration in speech. If I do meet someone who speaks intelligently, then I am often offset by this and need to adjust. I just spoke to the person at the gas station, and now I need to adjust for the professor. I would argue that this adjustment is conditioned by other personalities or intelligences being the majority in my surroundings. I would guess that being the minority would reinforce a desire for solitude.

Another factor is that I tend to use long words with exact meaning. This make people uncomfortable. They are starting to see you as arrogant and somebody who is "trying to prove the he is intellectually superior"(By the way how often you get that one?). This is one big misunderstanding, at least when it comes to me. I just want speak clearly and plain logic. I also tend to be quite passionate about topics which I found interesting.
I completely understand this statement.
 

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I seem to have to constantly restate and reword nearly everything I say nearly every time I say anything....Though I suppose I can't with any at all certainty blame it on my audience most of the time...I tend to ramble and simply run off on verbal tangents riddled with various jargon and psychobabble...

It also seems that I can never really express my thoughts into words....the only way I can really describe my thoughts is rambling on about my entire thought process..an arduous task that more often than not leaves my audience either dumbfounded or completely and entirely disenchanted and uninterested.

I suppose that this recurring pattern has a reinforcing effect on my introversion...when one can't relate to most people and the people in turn ostracize what they don't really understand...you have the perfect little petri dish to grow one good ol' fashioned half-schizoid or eccentric with a slight avoidant personality disorder.
 

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Reading this thread I realize how lucky I am to have so wonderful brothers and friends.

When we are together and talking with other people, often occurs a moment in discussion when we look to each others smiling;
that means "they never get it right, do they?".

The problem is rarely "complicated words", but more often sheer logic, or a quick leap in reasoning.


But despite this I remain introverted, even with them.
I'm like that, even when I know I'll be understood; maybe even because I feel I'll be understood without even talking (even).
(english really lacks synonyms for "even"; or is it me?)


So I don't have to restate myself often; I would do it, but I have found that people often feel too intimitated to ask me to clarify, which is sad.
I do it for my ideal of "understanding" which I think will benefit to everyone.
And I think introversion is so introverted that it remains what it is despite what's happening outside.
 
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