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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just had this conversation with my mum.

Have you ever felt like the way you look, isn't *you*?


Inwardly, I've always felt like a small, innocent, cute person that needs protecting and is quite vulnerable to the outside world. I feel like I should be lady like, petite and have some what of a dancers body, youthful, small bust and body etc.

In reality, I'm 5'8, broad hips and shoulders, small bust (well that bit was done right) but, I'm described as having a soft voice, a youthful face and fresh skin.

I also feel like I should be a natural blonde, because I can be quite ditzy.

I used to have more of an image of big and clumsy, but I've kind of outgrown that.

When I look in the mirror, I don't see an obese person- I actually see myself as being about 15 kilos lighter than I am. I can put on nice clothes, make my hair look pretty and put on makeup and feel fine about leaving the house, but then I see photos of myself, and am thankful that I am somewhat delusional about my appearance, otherwise I would never leave the house.

I wonder how I would feel about my body and appearance if I ever got down to the 63-70 kilos I am dying to weigh, and if I managed to tone up/get rid of my flab. Would I look in the mirror and see me? I've always felt like my outsides don't match my insides.

I feel like I would be more comfortable looking like Taylor Swift or Jessica Alba. Then again, I can't imagine waking up looking like them in the morning, I still don't feel like I would look like ''me''. It makes me wonder what really makes a person. We can only play around with the natural mold that God has given us, in terms of facial and body shape. The rest can be adjusted with plastic surgery, makeup, hair dye and styling products and clothing.

I'm not looking for advice or validation
- that's not the point. Sometimes, I go through periods of life feeling very happy with the way I look! Its more a discussion of how common this experience of disconnection with body and mind is, and if its affected you. I think its an interesting topic. It makes you consider, if you had full customisation, and choices over the way you look, from beginning to end, how would you choose to look? Its a lot easier to consider how you look now, and make small changes from there, whether realistic/possible or not.


I was a big toddler... you could tell I was going to be tall





I've always been good at expressing myself/dressing to my type {ENFP}/playing around with accessories. When I was 3-12, I was always looking for new necklaces, headbands or tutus to wear. I guess my physical appearance didn't matter up to a certain point, it was always about the clothes.


Me dressed as a princess for a hospital float in the parade. I guess I've always wanted to be treated like a princess/lady- like how they are in Disney movies, and how I perceived my friends to be treated?


Freaking awkward looking.

More pictures of me here- http://www.squidoo.com/my-life-in-pictures
 

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i always thought that the way you perceive your body played a role in developing your general outlook and attitude towards life and your self. for me anyway, everythings always connected. just because you're happy but overweight doesn't mean you've lost at all the perception of your body or who you are. its not strange that you're happy despite not having that super tiny waist. but i suppose you mean to say that you feel like you're in the 'wrong body'. the more we go for the stereotypes - the way you deem blondeness to imply one's clumsiness, for example, or how you believe that vulnerability may relate to petiteness - the more we'll feel this disconnection which you're describing, because we feel that we need to meet certain standards of appearances to help express our inner qualities and properly define us. that we do not possess certain physical qualities makes us feel like something just doesn't 'feel right', as you're saying. for instance, a woman may not feel all that lady like because she isn't 'petite enough'. i guess this all really comes down to how much we've accepted certain stereotypes brought about by our societies.

our outsides don't reflect our insides in that stereotypical sense at all (for instance, take the stereotype that overweight people are lazy.) its the perception of our outside that influences and develops our inside, our outlook on life, our overall selves. together, both the outside and inside contribute to our character and who we are. its not that our outside MUST reflect our inside, its that it already does, and more importantly, its that our inside is always in a state of growth and development anyway. don't try to mold yourself in any particular way, because you'll always continue to grow. theres nothing fixed about who we are. and there is no physical criteria for any of our personal qualities. our looks are just one part of who we are, but then comes the other, more significant part where we personally define those looks. i believe its that second part which makes up who we are overall.

i really hope some of that made sense, i'm sleepy as heck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
just because you're happy but overweight doesn't mean you've lost at all the perception of your body or who you are. its not strange that you're happy despite not having that super tiny waist.
That's not what I'm saying at all. Its a feeling I've had all my life, even when I was slim.

but i suppose you mean to say that you feel like you're in the 'wrong body'.
Exactly! Or the wrong ''version''

the way you deem blondeness to imply one's clumsiness
No. Clumsiness- falling over a lot, losing control over your body. Ditziness- saying silly things. Maybe you accidentily wrote the wrong word.

how you believe that vulnerability may relate to petiteness -
or being protected by a male... or wanted to be protected by a male- its a little bit harder to find a guy thats taller than you when you're 5'8. I also don't feel very girly/lady like/like a princess (strange thing that a girl should be described as, I guess I grew up on too many Disney movies, wanting to wear pretty dresses)

the more we'll feel this disconnection which you're describing, because we feel that we need to meet certain standards of appearances to help express our inner qualities and properly define us. that we do not possess certain physical qualities makes us feel like something just doesn't 'feel right', as you're saying. for instance, a woman may not feel all that lady like because she isn't 'petite enough'.
Yes I think it is about judgement. If I looked like the way I feel I should look inside my head, I think people would treat me differently. Instead, they just see this big girl, who should be able to protect herself and be successful in life, but is actually extremely vulnerable and scared.

our outsides don't reflect our insides in that stereotypical sense at all (for instance, take the stereotype that overweight people are lazy.) its the perception of our outside that influences and develops our inside, our outlook on life, our overall selves.
Exactly, its like the frustrating point, that people assume that if you're have outer beauty, you're beautiful on the outside, worth getting to know, date, etc, while unattractive people have to work a bit harder to get that kind of attention and validation.

together, both the outside and inside contribute to our character and who we are. its not that our outside MUST reflect our inside,
its that it already does,
Doesn't that last bit contradict your previous point?

and more importantly, its that our inside is always in a state of growth and development anyway.
Hmm, this thread is more about outer appearances though, theres no limit to how your personality/character can change over time. That is a very encouraging fact of life!

Thank you for your post, I enjoyed reading it. Sorry for breaking it apart, sometimes its easier for me to break it into chunks than reply to the whole thing!
 

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I completely get what you mean.
My situation is a bit different, but I suppose it really loosely relates...
Mostly I act very flowery and sunshine-y and I'm really... well, being one yourself you'd know what it's typically like to be an ENFP.
However, I end up with lots of black clothes in my wardrobe (shopping is boring so I use gifts I get and the stuff my aunt, who is in a rock band, gets me) and I kind of just slide into a rocker look by default. I'm not saying I mind about the clothes (I don't really care haha), but I think this makes me look, well, more intimidating than I really am.
And strangely, I end up acting or thinking in a more rocker, rebel-without-a-cause, gothy way.
But I digress, so apologies.
Basically what I'm saying is clothes affect the way I am to some extent.
Which leads to the question: how come looks (face, body, etc) don't affect the way one acts? Or do physical features actually affect the way you act? And to what extent?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I completely get what you mean. Mostly I act very flowery and sunshine-y and I'm really... well, being one yourself you'd know what it's typically like to be an ENFP.
However, I end up with lots of black clothes in my wardrobe (shopping is boring so I use gifts I get and the stuff my aunt, who is in a rock band, gets me) and I kind of just slide into a rocker look by default. I'm not saying I mind about the clothes (I don't really care haha), but I think this makes me look, well, more intimidating than I really am.
Oh god, my clothes don't reflect me much at all! They make me look alot younger than I am, because my sister and mum buy terrible things for me, and I end up in a lot of dresses (I like dresses, if they are the right ones, and boots- not necessarily together). My problems with clothes, fashion is presentation, is I have no idea how to style my hair so I always end up in pony tails or plaits, I have trouble with my make-up, I never have money, and I don't exactly have a desirable or small body, so its hard to find things that fit. There are definitely some things that look good on me. My style inspirations are people like Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, Jessica Alba and Beyonce.

Stuff I like: http://pinterest.com/xstephnz/my-style/

Which leads to the question: how come looks (face, body, etc) don't affect the way one acts? Or do physical features actually affect the way you act? And to what extent?
I'm sure they do... people treat us based on how we look, in some way. Big, strong guys are expected to help lift things. Beautiful, slim people are expected to dress nicely. Overweight people are expected to have low self esteem, and to be lazy and food obsessed. As for me, I have had lots of experiences where I don't get treated like a lady, or a girl. When I go to couple dance classes and there's an uneven amount of girls and guys, I get expected to step in as one of the guys, so I end up getting really confused. I'm used to guys not holding doors for me, so I always walk through last. The way people see me, affects the way I act. Now that I'm a bit older, guys try to treat me like a girl, but I kind of reject it, and it makes me feel sad, and like a bit of a loser.
 

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Yeah, this has always been a great "problem" for me. When I was little I was always the shortest and skinniest in the group, but I guess I am pretty average in height and weight now. In my head though, I usually see myself as vigorous, much taller and stronger. Furthermore, I often identify with old, wise men too as well as another part of me identifies so much with a teen boy that I am sometimes surprised when I find myself in my female body. Oh, archetypes. :)
 

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Just had this conversation with my mum.

Have you ever felt like the way you look, isn't *you*?


Inwardly, I've always felt like a small, innocent, cute person that needs protecting and is quite vulnerable to the outside world. I feel like I should be lady like, petite and have some what of a dancers body, youthful, small bust and body etc.

In reality, I'm 5'8, broad hips and shoulders, small bust (well that bit was done right) but, I'm described as having a soft voice, a youthful face and fresh skin.

I also feel like I should be a natural blonde, because I can be quite ditzy.

I used to have more of an image of big and clumsy, but I've kind of outgrown that.

When I look in the mirror, I don't see an obese person- I actually see myself as being about 15 kilos lighter than I am. I can put on nice clothes, make my hair look pretty and put on makeup and feel fine about leaving the house, but then I see photos of myself, and am thankful that I am somewhat delusional about my appearance, otherwise I would never leave the house.

I wonder how I would feel about my body and appearance if I ever got down to the 63-70 kilos I am dying to weigh, and if I managed to tone up/get rid of my flab. Would I look in the mirror and see me? I've always felt like my outsides don't match my insides.

I feel like I would be more comfortable looking like Taylor Swift or Jessica Alba. Then again, I can't imagine waking up looking like them in the morning, I still don't feel like I would look like ''me''. It makes me wonder what really makes a person. We can only play around with the natural mold that God has given us, in terms of facial and body shape. The rest can be adjusted with plastic surgery, makeup, hair dye and styling products and clothing.

I'm not looking for advice or validation
- that's not the point. Sometimes, I go through periods of life feeling very happy with the way I look! Its more a discussion of how common this experience of disconnection with body and mind is, and if its affected you. I think its an interesting topic. It makes you consider, if you had full customisation, and choices over the way you look, from beginning to end, how would you choose to look? Its a lot easier to consider how you look now, and make small changes from there, whether realistic/possible or not.

That's an interesting observation. I'm sure many people probably deal with the same kinds of things. I think what happens is there is a disconnect that comes with not being completely "grounded" in your own body. I don't really see myself as different than I am but I do get disconnected sometimes. In my case I would travel through life only partially feeling and experiencing things and it felt like i was just watching myself from somewhere else. I started looking at my pictures and feeling like they were only a shell and not the real me. I'd look in the mirror and feel like a robot. It was the weirdest thing. I found out that part of that was the fact that I wasn't allowing myself to be who I was. I am in the military and at the time all this was going on, I was only showing part of myself to fit in and keep my instructors, peers and superiors from getting a negative view of me. But no matter what they think, you have to allow yourself to be who you are. You can't be afraid of rejection.

I think when this happens you see what you could be or want to be but you're not completely in your body to deal with it. Once you can fully allow yourself to reside within your body and remain grounded, you can either decide that you enjoy the way you are now or that you want to make changes to get to your goal of being smaller, blonde, or whatever it is that you think would suit you best. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting something for yourself if it makes you happy because that's part of being who you are. Don't let people tell you that what you see is what you get. Your wants, goals and dreams are very valid.

Well after coming to that realization I'm feeling way more content with things because I did a lot of meditation and used some "grounding" techniques from youtube to get back to being my true self. I recommend it. :proud:
 
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I often think I should look something like this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/god-country-history/1535245305/lightbox/

But seriously, I almost never feel connected to my physical body. It is just a protective layer around my brain to shield it from damage and give it the ability to perceive the world. Although, if the theory that every particle in the universe has another particle somewhere else in the universe doing the exact same thing as it (I believe this is quantum entanglement, but I am not sure) is correct, then my mind could be completely separate from my body. While my brain is the collection of neurons firing around, my mind could be a collection of particles spread out all across the universe which are tied together by being entangled to the particles in my brain, which are physically bound together. So your mind would be a separate entity from your body, meaning you are literally disconnected. Mindfuck.
 

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Fundamentally, it's not about "the way I look", it's about having a way I look at all. I don't interpret anything I see in the mirror as mine, and I don't think this would change if I were affixed to a different body.
 

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When I see a photo of myself or look in a mirror I don't really see "me". It's not that I feel either disappointed or pleased, it's that I feel disconnected from that image. However, when I see a video of myself I feel very connected. The words, the eyes, the speech patterns, the mannerisms...they all feel like "me" projected onto that human body I happen to occupy. I can see my spirit animating that human form that I otherwise wouldn't identify with. That's when I feel more connected to my body.
 

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Yes, I have a disconnect from my body, but less so now then when I was younger. This is not meant to be advice, just relating my experience, but I found yoga & other physical activities that tune you into your body movements & breathing to help ease this disconnected feeling, as cliche as it may be.

I still get a startle when I see photos of myself though, or I occasionally wonder who the girl in the reflection is when I accidentally catch myself in mirrors outside my home (I'm used to seeing myself in the mirrors at home). My face is the thing I just can't get used to. It just looks strange to me, and the more I analyze it the more I get unhealthy hangups over it (I'm "deformed" or something).

When it comes to my appearance, I don't NOT relate to my general image (I'm tallish, slender, brunette, not cookie-cutter pretty - all of which suits my arty smart girl self-image). I've put some effort into crafting a look that suits me, because I hate having that disconnect. I'm very much a mood dresser for that reason. I guess hair/makeup/clothes is enough to close the gap for me. As a child I was kind of awkward, nerdy, with big Daria glasses & wonky teeth, and sometimes I still see myself that way, so that it surprises me when people think I'm pretty/attractive. However, that's more of a disconnect with my perception & others' perceptions.

What I feel a disconnect with is the movement of my body, and how that appears. My facial expressions & body movements feel like they are not in-tune with my feelings & thoughts. I may appear colder, more awkward, etc, than I really feel.

I've never felt like my voice suits me either. I have this high pitched, little girl voice, and I think something a little deeper & "serious" would suit me better.
 

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Just had this conversation with my mum.

Have you ever felt like the way you look, isn't *you*?


Inwardly, I've always felt like a small, innocent, cute person that needs protecting and is quite vulnerable to the outside world. I feel like I should be lady like, petite and have some what of a dancers body, youthful, small bust and body etc.

In reality, I'm 5'8, broad hips and shoulders, small bust (well that bit was done right) but, I'm described as having a soft voice, a youthful face and fresh skin.
....

I think us Ne-people interact with the world through a layer of abstraction, so I can relate to your feeling of disconnected-ness between your physical body and the inner-spiritual you.

BTW, I love flatties:tongue:
 

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Not really, my extensive reading of philosophy help me understnad the whole mind body split and even so I never really felt like this body isn't supposed to be me..it's hard to explain but it just suits my personality perfectly
 

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yeah that's why i was saying it was a different type of disconnect for me that deals more with not being in my body rather than being different.

but my question for you is if you feel that you're different than how you look, why not work towards looking/acting how you feel? Of course you can't change who you are as a person and there's no need to try to become jessica alba. but you make it seem like you're too tall and not as petite and lovely like a princess as you'd like to be. But why can't you be a princess? what's wrong with being cute and innocent and needing a man's strong protection? I guess I just feel like if those are things you want for yourself it's not really a disconnect but more of your inner self and desires shining through. so i guess i'm asking if you feel like you're not supposed to think of yourself as a princess if you don't look the part and that's why you consider it a disconnect? or do you think there's a disconnect because all the cells aren't communicating properly in your brain and it causes you to not see yourself as you really are? because to me who you feel you are is who you are no matter what the mirror or society says.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
yeah that's why i was saying it was a different type of disconnect for me that deals more with not being in my body rather than being different.
Gotcha. I think I missed your point.

but my question for you is if you feel that you're different than how you look, why not work towards looking/acting how you feel? Of course you can't change who you are as a person and there's no need to try to become jessica alba. but you make it seem like you're too tall and not as petite and lovely like a princess as you'd like to be. But why can't you be a princess? what's wrong with being cute and innocent and needing a man's strong protection? I guess I just feel like if those are things you want for yourself it's not really a disconnect but more of your inner self and desires shining through. so i guess i'm asking if you feel like you're not supposed to think of yourself as a princess if you don't look the part and that's why you consider it a disconnect? or do you think there's a disconnect because all the cells aren't communicating properly in your brain and it causes you to not see yourself as you really are? because to me who you feel you are is who you are no matter what the mirror or society says.
I'll try and do the best with what I have been given, but its like trying to draw a colourful rainbow with pieces of black charcoal. It doesn't work.

I don't necessarily want to look how I feel on the inside, I used to get bullied really badly, so if I looked as weak and delicate as I feel sometimes, I probably would have experienced physical violence as well. I'm just saying the disconnect is weird, people don't see what is really there.

I don't want to need a mans protection, but I feel like I do. I want to be strong and fearless, but still, lady like. I want to be able to kick ass! Haha.
 

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Gotcha. I think I missed your point.


I'll try and do the best with what I have been given, but its like trying to draw a colourful rainbow with pieces of black charcoal. It doesn't work.

I don't necessarily want to look how I feel on the inside, I used to get bullied really badly, so if I looked as weak and delicate as I feel sometimes, I probably would have experienced physical violence as well. I'm just saying the disconnect is weird, people don't see what is really there.

I don't want to need a mans protection, but I feel like I do. I want to be strong and fearless, but still, lady like. I want to be able to kick ass! Haha.
haha. yeah i do see what you mean. In that sense I've felt that way too. I did feel kind of quiet and small in the past but i was a big girl and got made fun of because of it. but i think over the years i started to not care. especially cuz there are plenty of guys who like a girl my size. i might remind him of his mom or make him feel safe or my personality is more to his taste than a more popular pretty type girl is. but at the same time there's nothing wrong with expressing all of the things you are. there's probably some guy who is wondering where he'll find a girl who can kick his ass but also be ladylike haha. i think one of the biggest reasons why people can't find love is because they tried being themselves once and got turned down by someone who wasn't right anyway, or they let what others think influence them, and now they put themselves into the category that society made for them. i have to constantly check myself and make sure the things i'm doing and saying are what i really want or not. and you're funny haha you're not charcoal. but i like the way you talk. it probably would make some guy's day as well. i'm working on this too so i'm still trying to take my own advice but i can understand that it's weird to see yourself differently than you feel. So that's why i think it's important to be all the things you want to be even if they are all contradictions. Like, you are not a typical person like everyone else. You have to feel like you are special and so you get to draw outside the lines and break the rules and do what you want. I think there would be less of a disconnected feeling that way, you know? you would be able to be both what you see in the mirror and what you imagine yourself to be. you'd just have to figure out what things you'd have to do to get to that point.

sorry i know you said you didn't want any advice but i'm one of those "every girl is a beautiful princess no matter how she looks" kind of people. >_<
 
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Some of the ways I'd like to look:



I feel the slim teenage body with big, straight, messy hair feels a lot more "me". Though some people actually call me "Harry", so I guess I'm not that off.
 
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