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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, my sister is an ESTP and one of the main things that I notice that she has always had and I do not, is a very keen sense of what is in her own best interest. People, places, whatever. She always identifies and acts according to what is best for herself. While she could be very selfish when younger, she really isn't selfish now. She just doesn't compromise what is good for herself (which is not to say she doesn't do anything for others--she does).

It's taken me a long time to realize that I just do not have that instinct at all. I can tend not to prioritize self-care when needed, and in various kinds of relationships tend to automatically defer to the will of the other as most important. I'm getting better, but it doesn't come naturally. I know INFJs can be prone to depersonalization (been there, done that) and I wonder if maybe its a self-other boundary issue. idk...I'm thinking about it because I cannot believe how consistently wrong I have been in my relationship choices (not necessarily romantic, mostly friendships). I don't associate with people I consider bad or disrespectful toward me, but it's like I didn't quite realize they didn't feel particularly attached to me, or loyal.

Can anyone else relate?
 

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So, my sister is an ESTP and one of the main things that I notice that she has always had and I do not, is a very keen sense of what is in her own best interest. People, places, whatever. She always identifies and acts according to what is best for herself. While she could be very selfish when younger, she really isn't selfish now. She just doesn't compromise what is good for herself (which is not to say she doesn't do anything for others--she does).

It's taken me a long time to realize that I just do not have that instinct at all. I can tend not to prioritize self-care when needed, and in various kinds of relationships tend to automatically defer to the will of the other as most important. I'm getting better, but it doesn't come naturally. I know INFJs can be prone to depersonalization (been there, done that) and I wonder if maybe its a self-other boundary issue. idk...I'm thinking about it because I cannot believe how consistently wrong I have been in my relationship choices (not necessarily romantic, mostly friendships). I don't associate with people I consider bad or disrespectful toward me, but it's like I didn't quite realize they didn't feel particularly attached to me, or loyal.

Can anyone else relate?
I re-read Keirseys segment on SPs yesterday and that's exactly what he says. They're always scanning for the best angle to approach things, they master "the art of making moves to better one's position here and now".
We've got inferior Se, so we don't always pick up the opportunities like they do. On top of that our Fe is higher so we're much more likely to compromise to do something for someone else.

Versus the ESTP friend i know, he's definitely like that. He's a bit opportunistic, used to be selfish as well. He just always knows what to go after, while i typically wait until chances fall into my lap :)
 

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I'd like to mention that from what I've experienced of INxJ, not only not opportunistic, but in fact even the opposite - actively avoidant of opportunities, even if they are in the lap. It's almost as if....an opportunity seems fishy or not worthy, if it didn't originate from a grand Ni insight from within, and meticulously thought through and planned oit first. In the moment plans feel trite and foreign.
 

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I learned a lot from S-dominants, like ESTP's or ESFP's. I can be too selfless and indifferent to my surroundings, always accommodating to others' needs, they can teach me becoming more aware and choosing for your own comfort sometimes.

I remember being on a festival with this ESTP girl. At a certain point I was 1) physically cold, 2) hungry and 3) indecisive. The S-dominant then would 'save' me, by buying me an apple and tea (I didn't even know there were stands selling apples and tea at this festival) and giving me her spare blanket. Being warm and fed, I suddenly managed to make a decision (where to go, what to do) haha.

(I realize this is not completely on topic as it comes to relationship decisions, but it borders to it right? I had to think about it anyways)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No, I understand that completely. I was out with a guy once-ISTP-and we were doing a lot of walking and of course my feet were hurting but I wouldn't just stop for a rest. Finally he said we were going to stop and rest because "If it were me, I would have stopped a long time ago." . I really thought well of him for that. I guess that's the other thing about STPs (maybe even more than SFPs), they not only get their own self interest, but respect yours as well. Maybe they have the best boundaries of all the types.

It's like my instinct is to focus on the other and suppress the self. This has caused major friendship problems (leading to one of those infamous doorslams). Had I been able from the start to prioritize what was best for me, instead of prioritizing the other, it probably would not have gotten to that point.
 

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It is a learning curve! I recognize myself in you so much. Only for the last half year or so I manage to listen more to my 'gut' and be true to what my needs are instead of doing what others want and then resenting them for 'making me do so'.
It is in us to listen to our own needs, but somewhere, somehow, we got accustomed to soothing others needs before our own.
As you are saying yourself, neglecting your own needs to avoid conflict can lead to the biggest conflicts. I really admire (and kind of seek out nowadays) the ISTP/ESTP/ESFP types, as I can truly be myself with them without too much compromise. They somewhat invite you to do the same as they do (be upfront about what they need). I also try to avoid/give less attention to the really needy types, haha.
 

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INFJs biggest flaw is that they don't know when to start, ESTPs biggest flaw is that they don't know when to give up.

One of my best friend is ESTP and she tries to get the most out of every moment, while I feel very detached, and see things as a blend of present, past and a cloud of future possibilities. I have the hardest time staying focused on things unfolding, I'm constantly going back and forth inside my head to piece everything slowly together and get a better grasp of what's happening.

ESTPs lack insight into their actions, what they truly desire, the consequences of their choices, and such. They tend to charge head on into traps at times. That's why I never felt as useful to someone as to an ESTP. That said they are extremely stubborn.

On the other hand, the pace of reality can seem overwhelming at times for INFJs, too much things happening and not enough time to think them through. And when there's time, it takes forever to leave the planning stages. ESTPs know how to engage me the most into doing something unplanned. I get a better grasp at managing the present moment too.
 

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It's taken me a long time to realize that I just do not have that instinct at all. I can tend not to prioritize self-care when needed, and in various kinds of relationships tend to automatically defer to the will of the other as most important.

Can anyone else relate?
I'd like to think that I have instinct via insight and know what's good for me on the different levels and options. Acting through with and choosing which route though is always a hurdle.

On the other hand if it's for someone else, it's much easier for me to get in gear. Strange really now that I write that.

In relationships I usually put the other person first which isn't very healthy. I'm learning to not care as much; it helps and it hurts. Sometimes you have to fight through it though and build up your own... resistance to resist.

It's about setting your own boundaries and although you want to please the other person you can't be the martyr all the time. If that person isn't also taking care of your needs then you might want to reevaluate your self worth and move on.

Good thing you've noticed this because that means you have that much more time to improve.
 
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ESTPs know how to engage me the most into doing something unplanned. I get a better grasp at managing the present moment too.
What do you think it is, specifically, that ESxP can do that kicks you into "unplanned mode"? I know it's natural for them, but I have always wondered what they do (in a realistic sense, not a theoretical sense).
 

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I'm making active steps in doing what's best for me right now. I wasn't like that before. I cringe knowing how I just did things to serve someone else's interest, and then I convinced myself that it was in my best interest.....when it wasn't. Doing what's best for me is pissing people off. I don't care anymore, bc im happier than ever.
 

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What do you think it is, specifically, that ESxP can do that kicks you into "unplanned mode"? I know it's natural for them, but I have always wondered what they do (in a realistic sense, not a theoretical sense).
They energize me, for lack of better words, in the way they behave, speak, etc. Because my Se comes last I am rather clueless of how it affects me, in the sense that being an extroverted function it can be charged from the outside without me being aware of it. My perception of the world changes, I feel more secure, energetic. ESTPs have that uncanny ability to excite me constantly, to make me curious about stuff I would never dare do on my own without sufficient prep. It's like finding a new perspective in yourself that was there all along, that you were too afraid or proud to even consider.
 

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While ESTPs may be keen on acting in their best interests for the here and now, they seem to have quite some difficulty in understanding and/or accepting more long term consequences to their actions.

My brother is an ESTP and for him, it's like tomorrow will never happen so he never considers it. We both inherited half of our father's home and had made plans to sell it, and he knew he'd get around $30,000 from it so even before it was sold, he put himself more than $20,000 in debt because he counted on that money coming in at some point, failing to realize or care that he'd be left with next to nothing once those debts were paid off. And that's where he is now, less than $100 and selling his car, with plans to live in a van (by choice, mind you) and work temp day labor for I guess the rest of his life or something.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if we INFJs had the opposite issue, in that we can see consequences to every choice and action, leading us to bouts of in-action or hesitation. Maybe that's in regards to both types having the same functions, only in reverse. Who knows?

While ESTPs do seem to be more 'free' in the way they live, I don't envy the costs they pay for that 'freedom'. But then I doubt they would want our sort of long term stability life either, lol.
 
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