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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Okay, so recently I got into an argument with people who wanted to act as if they're the personification of their type down to a T, because apparently to them being ENTJ means they're the shit. For arguing against this and pointing out that this typology system is just one of a few and not the end all, be all, of the study of personality, I was argued against and told to go to my little DPRK, which apparently means I am a North Korean Dictator for saying I can lead an enterprise I start be I an Introvert or not an Introvert. I know it was an ego thing on their part, because they seemed to try to fit into their type, like slipping into a stereotype.

I did read false modesty, with the ENTJ the argument began with saying that an ENTJ knows to let the most competent person lead, but these statements were mixed with, for lack of a better word, slurs against INTPs saying that an INTP wouldn't have a thick enough skin to deal with people. I was then asked to find a link proving otherwise and was ridiculed for not having statistics of some sort that were apparently expected of me, for saying that neither an INTP nor an ENTJ can be deemed better at something as a whole unless subjected to experimentation and then published as results and conclusions. I was irritated by it all because I can't communicate well through text like this, I tend to use body language and my voice, but text always fails me, where I can succeed easily with words and sending out a vibe. I actually discussed this with someone once. He said that he believes technology breaks more friendships than it creates over misunderstandings, because only vocal and facial interaction is natural to us as a species.

The thing is, all I was trying to say, though I am terrible at this writing bullshit and stated as such in my damn Intro thread, is that it's the individual, and what's in their heart that defines them and what they do. It's also their choice to do something. And even if ENTJ, it isn't your typing, it's simply you, someone who developed over many years, that can succeed through hard work and determination. Yes, aptitude helps, but even if you naturally suck hard at something, that's the first step to being okay at something.

The reason I feel so strongly about this, is that I was called shit my whole life. I had Dyspraxia, so my natural intellectual abilities weren't noticed early on, and I was treated like an imbecile. I could barely hold a pen, barely write, and I sometimes couldn't keep track of what I was meant to be reading on a page. People know more about Dyslexia, something people have and still succeed with(Richard Branson), but fewer people know about Dyspraxia and how it can hinder someone and mask their talents as children. It's because of this, the fact that I have been told early on in life that I will never succeed, including by my parents, because I could barely write my signature at one point in my life, that I see it as a challenge when people say anything to do with me will make it more difficult for me to succeed. I believe in the potential of others, and I believe in myself. I've only self tested as INTP, but last night also got INTJ, and the night before tried another test and got ISTP, and in the past when I enjoyed people a bit more and enjoyed getting things done without risk to what I had planned, got ENTJ on two tests.

In truth, I notice a lot of Extroversion in myself from recent and far past events in my life, but I also notice a lot of thoughtful Introversion and enjoying being able to think alone if just for an hour at least(Ambiversion?) I also think I share a lot in common with all these types, including ENTP. I do not, however, believe that any of these types, whatever a PROFESSIONAL MBTI TESTER would type me as, can ever really define me as a person. I'm simply me. I know if I got a professional test, I could look into the type, and realize more about myself. It would be used to help me, which is what Jung wanted for people as a Psychiatrist. I have my goals in life. So far, I've done everything else I've wanted to do in my life, despite hearing I'm worthless and would fail constantly on a daily basis for the majority of my life, so, I know I can do everything else too. And so can you. No matter what your type is, because in the end, it's there only to help you, it's not all of you and it can't define you in your totality.
 

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I have seen people capitalize on their supposed type alot.

That said half the time for example a supposed ENTJ is peacocking I dont even think they are ENTJ. It seems the believable ENTJs really have no reason to act like that. Usually alot of the nit wits that capitalize on that sort of thing are often WISHING they were the type. If they were the actual type they would not need to play things up or play things down or over project. Its almost hysterical when someone who is CLEARLY a beta over projects themselves and deludes themselves to being ENTJ.

Anyways yeah I see alot of SJs and SFPs in the ISTP section who try and personify a stereotype more then they are just as. The more they try and act like they are too cool for school and play everything off the more I question their type. Like someone will come in the STP section and ask a question pertaining to feelings, then idiots who misunderstand Ti & Fe respond by over playing ISTP stereotype). I gotta laugh at the SJs that could even mistake themselves as ISTP with all their subjective moralty at times.

INTP I know what you mean some can be just way to serious and take themselves way too serious. They can have a tendency to write off others (especially non NTs). Theres some very insightful ones. But yeah theres way too much cock stroking among some of them (not all).

Theres a huge bias in the typing community against sensors as well as feelers often which is also quite stupid and makes people take themselves too seriously or mistype.

Anyways remember alot of people mistype themselves. Sometimes its just trial and error and learning about mbti. Sometimes the people get engulfed because they mistake their type as merit. When really even if we are assuming its their type still personal characteristics define people more then mbti. Every mbti has their rotten apples of a bunch as well as their ripe. And alot of the types have oranges claiming to be apples.

I consider extreme typing to be restricting. Most peoples function order for example are not as black and white as any of the exact type processes. Also when you factor in ennegram and such.

Its a useful guide and tool to understand your strengths and weaknesses in yourself and others. It definitely I agree is not something that one should wrap their entire identity in.

@Obligatoryusername91
Btw....
When I first started I tested as INTP (honestly I noticed it was when I answered more neutral and down the middle and was less describing of myself.

I had a hard time figuring out and narrowing things down and still have a hard time resolving self to one type.

Anyways I test in different ways depending on the test myself.

For starters on cognitive functions test I usually get ENTP. On mbti tests I get ISTP.
I have noticed I can answering basically the same on my answers for one test vs another and get different results which means theres a lack of consistency in testers. And varies greatly cognitive functions answers vs mbti test.

Another thing if you can see a pattern in what you always type lowest in or highest in that can be helpful. I know that no matter any test I always score lowest on Fi much lower drastically then any other function. And so it already eliminates any type that has Fi in first 3.

I know that I score consistent in Ti, Se, Fe, (oddly my Ne is higher then my Ni).

Anyways its easier to look at the patterns and narrow down from there. With the functions. But theres still not usually a one box really fits all.

Your testing in both Fi & Fe personalities try and figure which type you really use. Or if not by that by observing Te vs Ti.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
@Cinnamon83 I never knew there was a bias against Feelers. I so far like Feelers, and suspect most of the women I've been with have been Feelers. There was always something charming about their concern for other people, and yet their hypocrisy in passing judgement on other people. An odd mix of adorable and annoying. Personality is complex. I've been told by people that I dictate and have heard the term "domineering" at times in my life. My ex Rebecca said I'm a watch checking type A personality but she's a relaxed go with the flow type B.

I've started trying to look deeper into myself from all the weird crap people have said about me over the years. I learned on a really bad drug trip that it might be possible I do tend to have an extremely undeveloped feel for other people's emotions, while still managing to connect dots about them in my own mind, some of which have been called jumping to conclusions, as it probably is mostly "Ni", but I know my Fe is...somewhat crippled. If I had a better grasp on Fe, like I seemed to on shrooms, I learned I would be a lot better with people, so, I sometimes wish I were a Feeler. I could use that. I have my own layperson ideas that personality is a lot more fluid than some typology would have you think. That maybe people can be E at times and I at other times, or end up as an irrational F at times but a logical Thinker at others. I was described by family as being "Jekyll&Hyde" with how I seem to change drastically. Like, one day or minute, bright and happy eyes. The other, cold, slightly "stormy clouded" eyes. So, I doubt the constraints some people involved in this lovely "cybercommunity" try to imagine exist, and try to project on others.

I definitely see it as a guide, for self improvement and avoiding pitfalls.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
@Cinnamon83 I never knew there was a bias against Feelers. I so far like Feelers, and suspect most of the women I've been with have been Feelers. There was always something charming about their concern for other people, and yet their hypocrisy in passing judgement on other people. An odd mix of adorable and annoying. Personality is complex. I've been told by people that I dictate and have heard the term "domineering" at times in my life. My ex Rebecca said I'm a watch checking type A personality but she's a relaxed go with the flow type B.

I've started trying to look deeper into myself from all the weird crap people have said about me over the years. I learned on a really bad drug trip that it might be possible I do tend to have an extremely undeveloped feel for other people's emotions, while still managing to connect dots about them in my own mind, some of which have been called jumping to conclusions, as it probably is mostly "Ni", but I know my Fe is...somewhat crippled. If I had a better grasp on Fe, like I seemed to on shrooms, I learned I would be a lot better with people, so, I sometimes wish I were a Feeler. I could use that. I have my own layperson ideas that personality is a lot more fluid than some typology would have you think. That maybe people can be E at times and I at other times, or end up as an irrational F at times but a logical Thinker at others. I was described by family as being "Jekyll&Hyde" with how I seem to change drastically. Like, one day or minute, bright and happy eyes. The other, cold, slightly "stormy clouded" eyes. So, I doubt the constraints some people involved in this lovely "cybercommunity" try to imagine exist, and try to project on others.

I definitely see it as a guide, for self improvement and avoiding pitfalls.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
@Cinnamon83 Definitely more Fi, though as I may have said in another post, I also lack a lot of self awareness of my own emotions. I am not good with whatever my F function is, Fe or Fi. If it helps, I care more about what I do know I feel than what others feel. I look into my heart, and know that feeling to be true to myself. As a teacher of mine once said though "guys are emotionally retarded", which is a generalization but it is true to an extent.
 

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@Cinnamon83 I never knew there was a bias against Feelers. I so far like Feelers, and suspect most of the women I've been with have been Feelers. There was always something charming about their concern for other people, and yet their hypocrisy in passing judgement on other people. An odd mix of adorable and annoying. Personality is complex. I've been told by people that I dictate and have heard the term "domineering" at times in my life. My ex Rebecca said I'm a watch checking type A personality but she's a relaxed go with the flow type B.

I've started trying to look deeper into myself from all the weird crap people have said about me over the years. I learned on a really bad drug trip that it might be possible I do tend to have an extremely undeveloped feel for other people's emotions, while still managing to connect dots about them in my own mind, some of which have been called jumping to conclusions, as it probably is mostly "Ni", but I know my Fe is...somewhat crippled. If I had a better grasp on Fe, like I seemed to on shrooms, I learned I would be a lot better with people, so, I sometimes wish I were a Feeler. I could use that. I have my own layperson ideas that personality is a lot more fluid than some typology would have you think. That maybe people can be E at times and I at other times, or end up as an irrational F at times but a logical Thinker at others. I was described by family as being "Jekyll&Hyde" with how I seem to change drastically. Like, one day or minute, bright and happy eyes. The other, cold, slightly "stormy clouded" eyes. So, I doubt the constraints some people involved in this lovely "cybercommunity" try to imagine exist, and try to project on others.

I definitely see it as a guide, for self improvement and avoiding pitfalls.
People that type as feelers tho doesnt mean they are more or less compassionate look into the functions better. I feel I relate to you because when I first looked into things I didnt get the mbti descriptions vs street interpretation.

For example theres domineering forceful take charge feeler types (feeler doesnt necessairly mean how we take it, depends on their function stacking and letter stacking. A good example of a feeler type that can be very commanding.... ENFJs (almost any of the FJs can have that presence within.

Just like alot of the TPs can actually be less hardened being perceivers. Despite being thinkers. (hard to explain but its based on the exact stacking and fucntions).

Heres one cognitive function test: (Try others too maybe?)
Jungian Cognitive Functions Test

Then consider your ennegram plays a role, in that you could be a harder version of a feeling type a softer version of a thinking type, and consider if the J or P is in your stacking more moderate or extreme. Look at your polarized results.

Theres alot of things that on the surface coming in arent just automatically known as well as need to be read about.
Read about the functions and look at your patterns. In polarized test results.
The 16 Type Patterns

Enneagram Institute: Enneagram Testing & Training

But yeah feeler doesnt mean nice and feeley (theres feelers that are assholes -trust me). Thinker doesnt mean not feeling. Ti mean the person thinks more introerted (read up on it),Te is opposite its how we conclude our thinking and relay.
 

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@Cinnamon83 Definitely more Fi, though as I may have said in another post, I also lack a lot of self awareness of my own emotions. I am not good with whatever my F function is, Fe or Fi. If it helps, I care more about what I do know I feel than what others feel. I look into my heart, and know that feeling to be true to myself. As a teacher of mine once said though "guys are emotionally retarded", which is a generalization but it is true to an extent.
Actually that lead me to think your more Fe... Fe has a harder time grasping their own emotions usually. Fi is usually understanding their emotions more. Fe is guided by exterior factors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@Cinnamon83 Could be. I'm still learning about the functions. And as I said, not good with the emotion thing, controlling them(sometimes) or otherwise. It's like I don't know if someone is making me feel a certain way, or if it's all myself. My reactive nature, such as with anger at something I think is depraved(people kicking a dog for laughs=me attacking the people) could be Fe? I thought Fe was about gauging the feelings of others though.
 

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@Cinnamon83 Could be. I'm still learning about the functions. And as I said, not good with the emotion thing, controlling them(sometimes) or otherwise. It's like I don't know if someone is making me feel a certain way, or if it's all myself. My reactive nature, such as with anger at something I think is depraved(people kicking a dog for laughs=me attacking the people) could be Fe? I thought Fe was about gauging the feelings of others though.
Not if the Fe is lower down like in an ISTP (ISTP have inferior Fe and have a hard time grasping their emotions). They think logical but react very emotional for example. What you describe sounds very FJ or STP both have issues with that.

Fi users tend to have a very good grasp on what they feel and know it well. Fe is like scattered brained feeling because it is tryng to balance harmony and self preservation and its a challenge.
 

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@Cinnamon83 Not yet, might when bored. Is it any good, like, are the questions specific?
Heres one example of a qna from that section.
You go to that question and post a thread asking people to type you based on your answers.
Its useful to know how you score on congnitive functions tests tho too. I suggest taking that. And the Ennegram.
Anyways when your bored answer the questions below and copy and paste them to a thread in that section and people there will analyze. This is the link to that section....
What's my personality type?


1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?


Another questionaire....

1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?

3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?

4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?

5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?

6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2.

7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?

8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?

11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?

12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?

13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?

14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?

15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?

16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your enneagram, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the Keys2Cognition, it helps if you post these results here as well.

18. Finally, is there something else you find to be of importance you want to add about yourself you think might be of relevance when helping to type you?
 

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No matter what your type is, because in the end, it's there only to help you, it's not all of you and it can't define you in your totality.
I completely know where you're coming from.

It's sort of a difficult subject because this is a topic that pretty much centers itself around stereotyping, but there's definitely a point where it goes waaaay too far. I think a lot of the online MBTI community consists of people who feel somehow invalidated in their lives that are using their types to compensate for their perceived personal shortcomings, and then going on to use MBTI to make vast generalizations about people instead of actually understanding them better.

As an ESFP, I cannot tell you how many times I've been asked by people I've met on here why I'm not out partying (even at like 4pm on a Tuesday - really?). I've also had multiple people who were, frankly, total idiots call me stupid because they've got an N where I've got an S. The worst is when people try to tell me I can't be ESFP because I'm interested in any academic topics whatsoever (shocker) and can string together a sophisticated sentence - so I must be an ENFP, right? Lol, please.

If it's any consolation, I guarantee you that people who circlejerk about how good their type is at something are compensating for an insecurity. They're probably totally passive in groups and wish they had more balls to speak up, so they use the ENTJ stereotype as some semblance of showing that they don't possess said traits. The same happens for pretty much every type on here.
 

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Whether I do or not is irrelevant. Don't tell me what to do. :tongue:

The real message here is don't push your beliefs onto others.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@Cinnamon83 I thought ISTP myself, but, I think I might lean somewhat toward Ne traits. The ex I mentioned pointed out I have a habit of forming conclusions, both correct and outlandish, faster than anything. I was thinking ENTP MIGHT be it, as it accounts for my being an introvert in some aspects, while gaining my energy from the external world, like drinking people and situations in, which I think is Ne, but you could be right about ISTP, because I know they show an outgoing side. I'm not sure if I'm enough of a Sensor to be ISTP. I've gotten mixed results from tests, but, I would say I might be more Ne and that has been noted. I still see a lot in common with ISTP, so you're not far off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
@PaladinX I'm not pushing my beliefs onto others, I'm merely stating what I believe in, and that I believe people can overcome any difficulties they might have in life. There is a big difference. If some people want to take MBTI as scripture, that's their choice. I won't defend the stupidity of that. I'd rather you shoot me dead than accept such nonsense. The reason is, I wouldn't be able to live with myself for accepting blindly the idiocy and injustice of others. I don't care who I ruffle the feathers of along the way. That includes you, bud.
 

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@PaladinX I'm not pushing my beliefs onto others, I'm merely stating what I believe in, and that I believe people can overcome any difficulties they might have in life. There is a big difference. If some people want to take MBTI as scripture, that's their choice. I won't defend the stupidity of that. I'd rather you shoot me dead than accept such nonsense. The reason is, I wouldn't be able to live with myself for accepting blindly the idiocy and injustice of others. I don't care who I ruffle the feathers of along the way. That includes you, bud.
My comment was a joke based on your subject line (hence the smiley face). The follow-up comment was about the ENTJ you mentioned.

You need to lighten up, bud. Otherwise, no feathers ruffled. :p
 
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