Personality Cafe banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
5,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This is a bit of an odd topic but I really didn't know where else to put it.

Firstly, this isn't at all about romance. It's about friends, usually of the same gender - seriously this thread is not about romantic relations at all.

So to start... I think it's perfectly normal to have a friend stay at your place if they're a good mate and they've nowhere else to go, or if it's simply the most convenient thing for them to do. Not necessarily long term - I mean sudden impulsive events where they just have to stay for one night. For example, if you go out and get drunk on an evening with your mate and they live quite far away, or perhaps they're passing through town and need a place to crash. Obviously just let them stay over, right...?

To me this is the norm and should come as standard in any strong friendship. Anyone I know and trust can stay at my place if needed.

Needless to say I was extremely surprised last night when I had to cycle home, drunk out of my eyeballs, for 1 hour, at 6am this morning after being out all night with a mate (of 3 years) who had previously said I could stay at his. While walking towards his place, I did the sort of 'polite' thing of saying, "You know I really don't mind cycling home if staying at yours is too much trouble...". Of course the expected and normal response would be, "No really it's fine, what's the big deal?", however his response was more along the lines of, "Ah well yeah actually my girlfriend might not be too happy about it" (even though it's his apartment!), with clear hints that he'd rather I didn't stay over. And so I grabbed a bike and cycled 1 hour home at 6 oclock in the morning. There's no way I'm gonna stay over in a house where I feel like a burden, or like I was only allowed in out of pity. So I bid him an amicable farewell and made my way home.

Is this normal? Is it to do with upbringing? Is it just me who thinks it's not at all okay to send a mate home like that? And am I the only one who doesn't need to ever think twice about letting a good mate crash at my place? After last night, my 'friendship rating' for this guy was slashed in half. I'm amazed it happened. I've let him stay at my place before, too.

I'm now wondering what other people think to letting good, long term friends stay over on random occasions.

Cheers!

 
* For those who wonder how I just 'grabbed' a bike - in China there are public bike hire schemes with literally hundreds of thousands of bikes in every city (seriously, some areas are plagued by them!). And no, for those who may be wondering about culture factors in my above-mentioned issue - the friend I'm talking about is not Chinese, he's British like me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
I do not know if it is related to upbringing... my view on it seems similar to my parents', though, which is to not offer their home as an informal crash pad but to offer it more formally when making plans with close friends. I would offer my home as a stopping place to a close friend or relative traveling through town but only for good friends. I love having people over but it is a heavy expenditure of energy for me, too. So I have generally been selective about it.

Right now my husband and I live in a small apartment, and we have not invited anyone to stay over yet. He is a sp-dom e9 introverted Judger who has been providing for himself since he was 18 - home is his refuge and he dislikes changes to his routine. I think if he were more open to it, I'd have had invited a couple of friends over from time to time, but at the same time I know have some friends and relatives who would abuse that invitation, too. So for right now I am comfortable with us not offering our place. However - I don't tell friends that they can crash at my apartment! I try to do things near their place, or give/find a ride home for them.

As for your situation though - I don't think it's anyone else's duty to provide you a spot to stay, unless you have previous arrangements and/or they're somehow responsible for your wellbeing. But if your friend said you could crash with him, and then he reneged, that's very shitty. At the same time, you also shouldn't have told him you were fine with cycling home if you weren't. He ought to have at least bought you a taxi home if he absolutely couldn't fulfill his promise.
 

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
5,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
As for your situation though - I don't think it's anyone else's duty to provide you a spot to stay, unless you have previous arrangements and/or they're somehow responsible for your wellbeing. If your friend said you could crash with him, and then he reneged, that's very shitty.
Well yeah that's exactly the point.

I was quite ready to cycle home and that was my original plan - in fact I was looking forward to the exercise - but when he said I could stay at his, I decided to stay out much, much later than I otherwise would have.

Anyway, this wasn't necessarily meant to be about my specific circumstances haha. I'm mainly interested in how other people perceive their own home, and their willingness to allow others in.

Interesting about your husband. I've earned all my own money since I was about 16 but I don't feel like I need to make my home a personal castle. This is interesting - it makes me wonder if a sense of privacy, personal space etc is perhaps MBTI related too. There are probably loads of factors I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,248 Posts
nteresting about your husband. I've earned all my own money since I was about 16 but I don't feel like I need to make my home a personal castle. This is interesting - it makes me wonder if a sense of privacy, personal space etc is perhaps MBTI related too. There are probably loads of factors I guess.
Probably so. He's an ISFJ 9w1 952 sp/soc. I would say his primary personal trait is independence. He is quite generous and amiable with friends. He very much enjoys spending time with them and he will go out of his way for them. I think he mostly dislikes tying himself down - having a friend stay over limits your freedom at home, of course. It also disrupts his usual routine, which gives him lots of space for peace and comfort. He is very much a master of keeping his own space and keeping it calm and comfortable. I admire and appreciate his ability to do so - it is one of the reasons I like him so much. I desire a peaceful, comfortable domain, too, but am not good at maintaining it - I am not good at laying down boundaries when I am drawing close to exhaustion and I let people and situations overwhelm me by accident. That is one of the reasons I am ok with our arrangement now... it protects me, too. Someday I anticipate we will have a larger home with a guest room and it will be easier to have people over.

Do you mind me asking your Enneagram type, if you have identified it? My understanding is that e5 sp and "my home is my castle" are often related. I would assume 9 sp, too. That plays in for my husband, of course. My ISTP brother, though, is 953 sx/sp, and he has people over all the time - in fact, I think he likes having people over nearly half the time. It doesn't seem to drain his energy at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,723 Posts
You know I really don't mind cycling home
it's not at all okay to send a mate home like that
so basically you said the exact opposite of what you were feeling in the name of "doing the sort of polite thing." I think that is not a good strategy with people you are close to. Better to be honest with people you are close to so they can know your real preferences.

...and what you did (saying one thing but feeling another) is appropriate sometimes but I think that's mostly for casual acquaintances that you would never see again; not for "real" relationships.

if I tell someone close to me how I feel then I expect (hope, actually) that they will believe me - he probably just assumed you were speaking plainly.
 

·
Premium Member
INTP
Joined
·
11,901 Posts
Stopping over is usually fine by me. Your friend was mostly in the wrong for inviting you to stay without running it by his gf first, if it might be an issue he's bothered about and wouldn't stand up to.

Otoh, if you feel the need to be polite in that way, maybe it's not that close a friendship?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,838 Posts
Some people expect things out of a friendship yet, they lack reciprocating the same. You may weigh your friendship based on time but, it could be meaningless to him. In short, you may have thought he was a friend but, he probably didn't think the same.

He also might be a 'high functioning introvert' that plays a role to "fit in" by day, but needs his own space at the end of the night.

I can understand where he's coming from with his gf- whether or not it's his place. Again, he probably doesn't trust you enough or regard you as a 'friend' enough to allow you to stay while his gf is in the same space. That and/or she probably would have gotten pissed bc maybe she wanted to be alone with him. Who knows.

It can be any number of things but, what's apparent is that you two have different ideas of what a 'friendship' consists of and how each person should act.
 

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
5,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Do you mind me asking your Enneagram type, if you have identified it?
No idea, sorry!

so basically you said the exact opposite of what you were feeling in the name of "doing the sort of polite thing." I think that is not a good strategy with people you are close to. Better to be honest with people you are close to so they can know your real preferences.

...and what you did (saying one thing but feeling another) is appropriate sometimes but I think that's mostly for casual acquaintances that you would never see again; not for "real" relationships.

if I tell someone close to me how I feel then I expect (hope, actually) that they will believe me - he probably just assumed you were speaking plainly. Better to be honest with people you are close to so they can know your real preferences.
Really? There's no way I was gonna speak up about it after he'd let his thoughts out. Complaining that I can't stay over is equivalent to begging for hospitality with a stranger who doesn't want to give it. No thanks! I wasn't desperate, just expectant after what he'd already said earlier in the night.

There was nothing direct about my speaking - I told him I don't necessarily need to stay at his place if it's a problem for him. He then told me it was a problem for him. This was hugely unexpected after he'd voluntarily said earlier that I could stay - and I had in no way asked or hinted at such a thing. I believe the plain speaking should have been on his part.

Stopping over is usually fine by me. Your friend was mostly in the wrong for inviting you to stay without running it by his gf first, if it might be an issue he's bothered about and wouldn't stand up to.

Otoh, if you feel the need to be polite in that way, maybe it's not that close a friendship?
Yeah, well it certainly isn't that close a friendship any more haha.

Strange though. He's confided quite a lot in me - some stuff that I know for sure he doesn't gladly tell everyone he meets. I think he really is just a bit funny with having people stay over. As others have said, it's probably one of these 'personal space' things. It's utterly absurd to me though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,723 Posts
No idea, sorry!



Really? There's no way I was gonna speak up about it after he'd let his thoughts out. Complaining that I can't stay over is equivalent to begging for hospitality with a stranger who doesn't want to give it. No thanks! I wasn't desperate, just expectant after what he'd already said earlier in the night.

There was nothing direct about my speaking - I told him I don't necessarily need to stay at his place if it's a problem for him. He then told me it was a problem for him. This was hugely unexpected after he'd voluntarily said earlier that I could stay - and I had in no way asked or hinted at such a thing. I believe the plain speaking should have been on his part.



Yeah, well it certainly isn't that close a friendship any more haha.

Strange though. He's confided quite a lot in me - some stuff that I know for sure he doesn't gladly tell everyone he meets. I think he really is just a bit funny with having people stay over. As others have said, it's probably one of these 'personal space' things. It's utterly absurd to me though.
The two parts of your post that I already quoted show where you said the opposite of what you felt - you told him "I really don't mind" and then you came to tell us "it's really not OK." The direct contradiction there is clear. if you set aside your desire to be right then you'll see it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,121 Posts
I agree with you about norms and expectations, but, you made one fatal error, you asked. If you had not asked you could have held him to his original offer and everything would have been everything. But you had to let your own guilt off the hook and ask to make it completely clean FOR YOU. When you did that he had the same LEVEL of response and checked his emotional landscape. YOU made it seem like no big deal, and he decided bitch aggro was worse than sending a friend home blotto. Plus you are talking bike riding. That is less hazardous by far than taking an auto. I am sorry to say that I know dozens of friends that refuse my offered place to recover and even fight me to get away to drive drunk. I am a big guy and very challenging. Some of those have become real fights. And I might have driven home a little drunk myself a few times.

I've been in exactly your situation a lot and with the same results. Bitch aggro is fierce. A lot of guys figure, let the other guy, my bud, be a guy and get his butt home. Saves wrinkles with the lady. Personally, when I get friends to stay and anger my lady, I do take it on myself to make it up to her as MY, not HIS decision. Own your choices, in all ways.
 

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
4,465 Posts
I'm now wondering what other people think to letting good, long term friends stay over on random occasions.
I've supported myself since I was 16. Letting people crash at my place, or me at theirs, was the norm and I was fine with it. But at about age 19 I wasn't comfortable with it any more, and that's one of the main reasons I quit drinking.

Most of my life I've lived in small places, and I really don't want anyone around. If a friend is passing through town or whatever, I'm fine with them sleeping in their own van in the driveway or something like that, but not in my house or apartment. If a friend was making a planned visit, I need them to stay in a nearby hostel or something.

As for your situation, you shouldn't have done the "polite" thing. He offered to let you stay, even though his girlfriend might not have liked it; this was a very friendly thing to do. When you said you were fine cycling home, you were saying no to his offer. Then he admitted that this was actually better for him. If I were you, I'd say, "Gee, what a nice friend, he offered to let me stay even though it might have been a problem."

You're about 30, right? It's different from being 20. You'll find that some of your contemporaries will let friends stay over after a hard night, and others won't. Some will be a bit conflicted about it (like the friend in your example) or will have family obligations, health/sleep issues, or other reasons for not wanting friends to sleep in their home.
 

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
5,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
The two parts of your post that I already quoted show where you said the opposite of what you felt - you told him "I really don't mind" and then you came to tell us "it's really not OK." The direct contradiction there is clear. if you set aside your desire to be right then you'll see it.
Not really. Your mistake can be seen here:

if I tell someone close to me how I feel then I expect (hope, actually) that they will believe me - he probably just assumed you were speaking plainly.
The part in bold is wrong. You assume I was speaking plainly. My mate knew full well that I wasn't.

Brits are polite to a fault - we all know that we don't mean it when we use manners with each other. The way we talk is incredibly nuanced and almost impossible to grasp for an outsider - this includes native English speakers, particularly Americans who I believe are indeed much more straightforward with what they want to say.

Th following may be of interest:

 



and this article:

The day 650 Glosters faced 10,000 Chinese - Telegraph
On Tuesday afternoon, an American, Maj-Gen Robert H Soule, asked the British brigadier, Thomas Brodie: "How are the Glosters doing?" The brigadier, schooled in British understatement, replied: "A bit sticky, things are pretty sticky down there." To American ears, this did not sound too desperate.
Gen Soule ordered the Glosters to hold fast and await relief the following morning. With that their fate was sealed.


Us Brits have a very particular way of dealing with pleasantries, manners, niceties and problem scenarios. It's a bit of a quagmire for those who are new to it, and indeed I think it can cause quite severe confusion at times. But we're both Brits. We know exactly how it works. He knew with certainty that I wasn't speaking plainly.

When walking towards his house, at which he'd already said I could stay, at 6 o clock in the morning, only the biggest idiot would take literally the statement that I don't mind doing a U-turn and making the one-hour bike journey home at 6 o clock in the morning, and only the biggest dickhead would use it as an excuse to to rescind their previous offer and have me instead go home, on a bike, for one hour, at 6 o clock in the morning.

Anyway this is all very much off topic now. Oh well.
 

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
5,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
You're about 30, right? It's different from being 20. You'll find that some of your contemporaries will let friends stay over after a hard night, and others won't. Some will be a bit conflicted about it (like the friend in your example) or will have family obligations, health/sleep issues, or other reasons for not wanting friends to sleep in their home.
Yep, for sure. Hence this thread. I was trying to get a consensus of opinion. Seems about 50/50 so far.

My 58 year old dad would be fine letting a mate stay over whenever is needed, too! Must be an upbringing and 'personal values' thing, I suppose.
 

·
Registered
INTP
Joined
·
5,121 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
It depends: Is his apartment big enough for them to fuck without you hearing it?
Probably not haha.

The funny thing is he doesn't even want to be with her any more. She's several shades of crazy, from what I've heard. Poor lad probably has his own shit to be dealing with between him and her. That doesn't excuse his change of heart at 6am though.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,075 Posts
Probably not haha.

The funny thing is he doesn't even want to be with her any more. She's several shades of crazy, from what I've heard. Poor lad probably has his own shit to be dealing with between him and her. That doesn't excuse his change of heart at 6am though.
Sounds like the part that you missed may have gone something like this:
"Sweetie, [insert your name] is staying with us tonight, I hope that's alright"
"But we were going to do that thing you said we were going to do and..."
[insert several hours of crazy later...]
"...AND THAT MEANS YOU DON'T LOVE ME!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,723 Posts
Not really. Your mistake can be seen here:



The part in bold is wrong. You assume I was speaking plainly. My mate knew full well that I wasn't.

Brits are polite to a fault - we all know that we don't mean it when we use manners with each other. The way we talk is incredibly nuanced and almost impossible to grasp for an outsider - this includes native English speakers, particularly Americans who I believe are indeed much more straightforward with what they want to say.

Th following may be of interest:



Us Brits have a very particular way of dealing with pleasantries, manners, niceties and problem scenarios. It's a bit of a quagmire for those who are new to it, and indeed I think it can cause quite severe confusion at times. But we're both Brits. We know exactly how it works. He knew with certainty that I wasn't speaking plainly.

When walking towards his house, at which he'd already said I could stay, at 6 o clock in the morning, only the biggest idiot would take literally the statement that I don't mind doing a U-turn and making the one-hour bike journey home at 6 o clock in the morning, and only the biggest dickhead would use it as an excuse to to rescind their previous offer and have me instead go home, on a bike, for one hour, at 6 o clock in the morning.

Anyway this is all very much off topic now. Oh well.
Nah that's not off topic at all...it actually makes a lot more sense now knowing you're British. Etiquette rules are different everywhere. I've actually heard Brits making fun of themselves for getting themselves into the exact same quagmire that you got yourself into :) "Oh no I was just being polite but the other person took me seriously; now what" - lol. It's just one of the downsides of that particular style of etiquette; you have to deal with people taking your words at face value sometimes when they usually don't :) Have fun fixing it! Lol.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,873 Posts
No. Fuck them lol. XD I'll let them stay outside unless they'll bring food and drinks
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top