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  • There has never been a conspiracy in the History of the United States.

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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
(If TLDR; Skip to the bottom, answer the poll, and share you thoughts, thanks!)

I came to politics in a very formal manner, a left advocate of social change and systematic weeding out of corruption, but just as soon as I was becoming disenchanted and loathsome of the entire impotent process, I ran into a group of new friends that altered my understanding of what the world was and what geopolitical affairs meant for the people that had a mind to manipulate.

I've gone from surface level 'politics', i.e. the affairs of politicians and bureaucrats, to Meta-Politics, the politics of how surface level politics are born, and where they actually issue command from. There are usually prime movers that are more or less invisible to the public media, though finding out what they hold in common is a fairly simple task that requires research into, among other things:

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1)The Military Industrial Complex
2)The Monetary schema of the U.S. and Europe
3)The Corporate Media Empire of the West

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All of which stand as pillars to the continued hegemony of western civilization's domination over economic and political affairs.

You see, once you understand that a human life only lasts so long, and that in the cycle of generations you have to actively propagandize and acclimate new people to war or hierarchy, you begin to form a larger, holographic image of what is happening inside the realm of politics above the peripheral surface level of all these talking heads.

You get an image that represents the combined efforts of powerful and mindful individuals to maintain control over populations of people that, without constant supervision and indoctrination, would no longer identify by State or empty platitudes of "Proud to be an American, Where at least I know I'm Free".

Generations of humans have to be constantly reminded who they hate, what they're going to war for, and why they are all common in cause with expensive, extensive media campaigns and influence, otherwise the illusions would likely dissolve and the wheel would be broken.

I, personally, Don't think Conspiracies are just Probable to maintain such feats, I think they are Absolutely Necessary.



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So my question follows: Are you NOT a believer in the concept of conspiracies? If not, Why so? If so, which ones and what is your rationale?

I leave you with the sage words of former C.I.A. senior operations agent Duane "Dewey" Clarridge in his rebuttal to accusations following the exposing of the Iran-Contra Drug smuggling scandal during his time as senior officer.


 

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I, personally, Don't think Conspiracies are just Probable to maintain such feats, I think they are Absolutely Necessary.

The real issue here is why you capitalized so many unnecessary words. Certainly it wasn't an accident. I smell deeper motives. Trying to control us? Send subliminal messages? Ahh! It's a conspiracy!
 

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My friend was telling me about this conspiracy that's really crazy something about fema and having boxes the size of dead bodies and russia wanting to take us over and a universal currency and taking our guns away and stocking up on tanks and then something about the bible and "babylon" and the pope and obama and the antichrist and i was confused and scared. </3 No, I don't believe in conspiracy theories.
 

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I mean, conspiracies happen from time to time obviously. Conspiracies generally come out sooner or later though. You know how many people would have to be successfully bribed to keep a fake moon landing secret? Every single last person involved right down to the janitor who cleaned up the set. The more people a conspiracy involves, the more likely it is to collapse under its own weight, which is one of many reasons that most of the popular conspiracy theories are bull. For an accurate depiction of what a government conspiracy usually looks like, look at the Watergate scandal.

Anyway, INFJ board is <-- thattaway
 

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Granted, there are things going on that people don't know about, but I don't believe in the competence of most people to keep up any significant ruse over a period of time.

*Although, the spell-checker on this site is putting a squiggly line under "ruse" which makes me think there is a vast conspiracy to convince people to use more simplistic and commonplace words. This will contribute to the dumbing down of humanity to the point that it won't take a complicated conspiracy to control the masses. Any moron will be able to do it.
 

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From an alternate perspective, marketing wants as needs is probably the most commonplace conspiracy. Or more specifically, creating bedrock societal truths where none exist. For instance, making bacon and eggs the quintessential breakfast food. Or even creating the myth that some foods are more or less acceptable to eat at breakfast.

Taken from "Propaganda" by ED Bernays:

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.
 

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From an alternate perspective, marketing wants as needs is probably the most commonplace conspiracy. Or more specifically, creating bedrock societal truths where none exist. For instance, making bacon and eggs the quintessential breakfast food. Or even creating the myth that some foods are more or less acceptable to eat at breakfast.

Taken from "Propaganda" by ED Bernays:

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.
I'm sorry, are you saying bacon and eggs are not a universal, first meal of the day requirement? Looks like somebody needs to remove their tinfoil hat.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Granted, there are things going on that people don't know about, but I don't believe in the competence of most people to keep up any significant ruse over a period of time.

*Although, the spell-checker on this site is putting a squiggly line under "ruse" which makes me think there is a vast conspiracy to convince people to use more simplistic and commonplace words. This will contribute to the dumbing down of humanity to the point that it won't take a complicated conspiracy to control the masses. Any moron will be able to do it.
I think people, perhaps INTPs in particular because of that weak Fe, tend to project their understanding of the world onto other people. I think everyone is vastly overcalculating the intelligence of the average human being. Or they simply lack the creativity to see how it would function.

Remember, just because you can't concieve of how it is I stole your sandwhich, is not necessarily an omission that I could not have possibly stolen your sandwhich. 'Tis a classical fallacy. Debunkers and debunkees alike use it.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity
 

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Discussion Starter #13
From an alternate perspective, marketing wants as needs is probably the most commonplace conspiracy. Or more specifically, creating bedrock societal truths where none exist. For instance, making bacon and eggs the quintessential breakfast food. Or even creating the myth that some foods are more or less acceptable to eat at breakfast.

Taken from "Propaganda" by ED Bernays:

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.
You've seen Adam Curtis' Illustrious series : "The Century of Self", I take it? If not, i highly reccommend it, that goes to everyone participating in this.

Kellogg's cereal founder also made flakey breakfast stuffs to prevent people from masturbating. I am not kidding. These are the kinds of people that invented the breakfast staples. And there is actually some good truth to all that bacon and eggs breakfast noise, farming needed a subsidy. Advertising was on board.

Corn Flakes Were Invented as Part of an Anti-Masturbation Crusade | Mental Floss
 

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thank god people here are quoting bernays.

I studied Bernays as part of my training in propoganda for the military. I worked as an adjuct in psyops and intel writing basically what amounts to marketing scripts and narratives for Americans, Iraqis & military seniors as well as an occasional representative. I can't talk about some of the stuff that I did, but let me put it this way

I am not a right-wing religious fundamentalist
I am not a marxist or aligned with any political party

but I 150% believe, based on my knowledge of how the military psyops community works and is organized as well as my own training and the fact that I was being groomed for a higher position in psyops and based on the knowledge of friends who moved into more nefarious positions of classified information, etc, that the government or some higher power is totally capable of massive subversion, to the point that they would make 9/11 a hit job. I know for a fact that AQ was a psyop creation from CIA as were some other insurgent groups. I can't speak about how I know but I know and even if I could say there is plenty of media evidence to show that this is true.

It's no lie that the petrodollar/banking system is devaluing the western world or that we are in proxy wars with Russia via Syria and the Czechoslovakia.

I'm not sure how any of the above falls into a conspiracy theory. I didn't make it high up into the psy op community but I went far enough to see how much we are and were lying to the American people/the world. I don't believe in the Apocalypse bs Babylon stuff that fundamentalists teach but I also recognize our senators and congressmen are probably working for something/one higher than the US govn't.

Personal theories: I think CIA has taken over the central government. It's a theory, but I have no other explanation for why some of the weird shit I saw go down has gone down. Since my work in intel the CIA community has made aggressive maneuvers to bring parts of the FBI/DEA and military NCIS and Intel communities on board with their mission, encouraging a kind of virtual one-sided transparency into other organizations. CIA is the only branch totally immune to NSA, which has surveillance of all other aspects of the DOJ. It's really weird. It's like CIA is its own sovereignty, immune to anyone or anything, including representatives and congress. They can make anyone disappear. Anyone. That community has the virtual power of immunity. They run the drug trade in Afghan and other parts of Europe and have some kind of play in C.America though I have no friends who work in that area, so just assuming based on what I know they are capable of.

Also, the CIA has some great programs that specialize in misinformation. I think alot of the "conspiracy theory" sites that sound like nut jobs are actually funded by them. We did similar stuff in Iraq and Afgah and it really works well. It's probably the best strategy I've seen to date.

Wish I could talk more about what I've done but I can't. Maybe in twenty years when everything's released. There are still things my trainers from the 'Nam era can't talk about.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Personal theories: I think CIA has taken over the central government. It's a theory, but I have no other explanation for why some of the weird shit I saw go down has gone down. Since my work in intel the CIA community has made aggressive maneuvers to bring parts of the FBI/DEA and military NCIS and Intel communities on board with their mission, encouraging a kind of virtual one-sided transparency into other organizations. CIA is the only branch totally immune to NSA, which has surveillance of all other aspects of the DOJ. It's really weird. It's like CIA is its own sovereignty, immune to anyone or anything, including representatives and congress. They can make anyone disappear. Anyone. That community has the virtual power of immunity. They run the drug trade in Afghan and other parts of Europe and have some kind of play in C.America though I have no friends who work in that area, so just assuming based on what I know they are capable of.
Oh yes indeed my friend, the CIA has gotten very big for its britches in the last few decades, so big in fact, that its arguably the strongest organization in foreign affairs right now, it's become a bit of a rogue element, and I don't think people anticipated just how powerful it would become. Though it's not that surprising given their modus operandi as subversion.

Also, the CIA has some great programs that specialize in misinformation. I think alot of the "conspiracy theory" sites that sound like nut jobs are actually funded by them. We did similar stuff in Iraq and Afgah and it really works well. It's probably the best strategy I've seen to date.

Wish I could talk more about what I've done but I can't. Maybe in twenty years when everything's released. There are still things my trainers from the 'Nam era can't talk about.
I'm not sure if it was my friend or I that came up with the idea that Alex Jones must be controlled opposition, but the way that man behaves with his contacts and with his information tells me that he is playing the role of a bug zapper, someone loud and noisy, with legit inside information, but it's being used to discredit and delay.

There's a lot of that stuff going on in the not so underground of American intelligence. There's many that (Rightfully) believe that there were agent provocateurs and informants gathering information on the behaviors of protestors in the Occupy Wall Street Movement as well as instigating violence among themselves.

This has become a big budget item lately, the stakes are higher now than ever, so I suppose it only makes sense that they seed the playing field with their agents.

 

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I'm not sure if it was my friend or I that came up with the idea that Alex Jones must be controlled opposition, but the way that man behaves with his contacts and with his information tells me that he is playing the role of a bug zapper, someone loud and noisy, with legit inside information, but it's being used to discredit and delay.

There's a lot of that stuff going on in the not so underground of American intelligence. There's many that (Rightfully) believe that there were agent provocateurs and informants gathering information on the behaviors of protestors in the Occupy Wall Street Movement as well as instigating violence among themselves.

This has become a big budget item lately, the stakes are higher now than ever, so I suppose it only makes sense that they seed the playing field with their agents.

Totally, Alex Jones is the kind of crazy loudmouth the CIA loves. We did this test op in Iraq (which I can talk about vaguely) where we picked some extremist similar to Jones (loud, opinionated, super radical and *almost* reasonable). This guy had been yapping on sm platforms calling himself a leader for years but nobody paid any attention to him probably other than his wives and goats. There was an order was going to raid him and take him in but then two days before the raid our team gets an order to do a "fix" on him. In brief, within the month we boosted this guy's presence on the 'net and soon all of the insurgents coming in country began to hit his pages. We set him up as the "leader" of that are and like candy they went for it. The project got handed to the big boys but from personal convos with others I know that basically they monitored all the new insurgent activity in the area through this guys site traffic. My team didn't even have a super high classification: imagine what they do at the GS-13 level or higher.

I don't believe our government is coordinated enough to pull some plot on the American people, but I think the CIA could. People ask me all the time why I don't write about this in some book. I'm like "do you want me to disappear?" Because I have veteran friends who've disappeared or worse. I had a female CPL friend who worked as an NCIS agent that was in joint with a unit similar to mine. She got out, I never heard from her again. The last we spoke she wanted to write about what she'd done. She said she was going to go to Canada, revoke citizenship and write from there. She got out and two months later nobody had heard or seen her. She's been missing for five years with no trace. I had another friend, worked as a Marine interrogator for psy ops. He also is gone. Completely vanished between a short 15 minute drive from work and his house. Can't tell you how much this happens in the psy ops/intel community. Another friend I have worked in Navy Intel, we trained together. Real sharp guy, almost impervious memory, INTP type, had an IQ higher than mine, which is to say +135 at minimum. He got out and his memory was shattered. He can't remember the name of his unit, where he served. His memory is entirely messed up but he does remember them giving him shots every two weeks. I'm pretty sure they drugged him and messed with his memory, though again, no proof. How does a guy with 135+ IQ and a nearly perfect memory go to being nearly dementia-like with no history of TBI or combat action/injury in less than 4 years?

The military was simplistic- we just did whatever got handed down to us from the PR brass who got orders from the Shady Box. Dude, not even our BN Cmdr know what was going on. Intel and psy ops were a field unto themselves. They handed reports in, sure, but if the Shady sent in a memo through brass that it was theirs that information would disappear and nobody in the battalion would be the wiser.
 
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