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Altruism. I would like to know if two's believe in or practice completely unselfish help to others, do you truly expect nothing in return? Don't we all help or support others for something in return, such as companionship, reputation or praise?
 

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Well, that is the main struggle with Two's, in my opinion. Two's -- unhealthy even up to the relatively healthy -- tend to be manipulative. They give in order to receive (appreciation, "love", trust, companionship). Two's strive to feel needed. Two's are subject to being blinded by their perceived "altruism"...and subconsciously expect some sort of return, though they may not be aware of this. In fact, when their expectations are not met, they can become aggressive and lash out.

Being a Two myself, I would say that I personally believe altruism may exist, but I believe it is very rare. Someone who gives expecting nothing in return would be a rare find in my opinion. A Two would need to be the healthiest possible in order to do this, according to Enneagram. I would assume a Two that is unaware of their manipulative tendencies would believe fully that they are being altruistic, as I used to believe before I started my effort to discover my patterns. Now that I am aware of my patterns, I recognize that I manipulate people all the time, and then try to stop. :p

I'm sorry for ranting. To answer your questions simply: I believe that Twos are idealistic and believe they may be altruistic when they are not.
 

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Would twos be satisfied with people if they merely offered verbal acknowledgment of the (sincere) appreciation for the two's assistance or would something more be needed to keep them happy?
For me personally an acknowledgment of some kind is always appreciated of which verbal is just fine. I don't really expect anything in return as such because the actual feeling from being helpful is indeed very satisfying...if that makes any sense? The best reward is usually in seeing the happiness / gratitude via the positive results in the person / people / situation you've assisted. Seeing others happy / helped / whatever is like a natural high for me...hard to explain really.

Obviously when someone does something nice for me; especially when it's out of the blue is absolutely fantastic and leaves me feeling revitalized / on top of the world. :happy:
 

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I usually feel more satisfied when I receive something more visual than a "thank you". I love to see people's demeanor change in response to what I do for them. I;m sensitive to the slightest change in the way they act and carry themselves, and even if they say thank you, I can usually tell whether I've made an actual difference or not...and judge myself accordingly. If they thank me and SEEM happier or less troubled, then I feel satisfied. But if they thank me, but still seem irritated/upset/sad/"x emotion", then I feel like I am insufficient and have failed.

I do not like gifts as means of expressing appreciation..I just strive to SEE the difference I made..I suppose...
 

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Would twos be satisfied with people if they merely offered verbal acknowledgment of the (sincere) appreciation for the two's assistance or would something more be needed to keep them happy?
A simple "btw, thanks for your idea/assistance on this. i think it turned out well" would be great. it acknowledges that i made a difference in some tiny way and i would be happy if someone mentioned any way i helped. even if it is an email message weeks later saying " i forgot to mention this, but thanks for your help that time!". :blushed:

Ive noticed with some of my INTJ friends, they don't offer this verbal acknowledgement.but i know them better to know that it doesn't mean they ARENT thankful. I don't get offended either if no verbal acknowledgement is given, but a tiny verbal gesture often makes my day. :proud:
 

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I think perhaps it really does depend at what metal-health state of your type you are in; regards to whether we need validation for helping others or not. And perhaps how much validation if we do need it.
 

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I think perhaps it really does depend at what metal-health state of your type you are in; regards to whether we need validation for helping others or not. And perhaps how much validation if we do need it.
I agree entirely.

"In a real way, Twos are dependent on the loving responses of others to validate their self-image—the good, selfless, loving person. The problem is that as long as Twos are focused on others to find indications of their own value and lovability, they fail to be fully aware of all of their own feelings and cannot recognize the lovable qualities within themselves. As Twos deteriorate, the situation worsens, because they also fail to recognize loving responses in others. Average to unhealthy Twos start looking for very specific signs that others love them, and any others indications of affection do not count. Thus, Twos must figure out what kind of person they need to be, what they will have to do, in order to elicit from others the specific responses that "count" as love." (2—Enneagram Type Two: The Helper—Overview)

It's sort of unfortunate how even average Twos look for validation, but only find it in certain responses that meet their criteria for "actual" appreciation. I know I can relate to that; I often catch myself going to the end of the world, changing my behavior and personality, and doing whatever it takes to receive the indications of love that I strive to "earn." It's manipulation. I contort myself and use hints to try to obtain the validation from another person, and use them to satisfy my self-worth. I think Twos need to search for validation within themselves to be happy...because relying on others does not constitute stability. Twos need to find a sense of purpose to feel fulfilled..and I believe that if they find a niche in life where they contribute to the goodness in the world (whether through a career, service, or hobby), then they can feel as if they have purpose and a meaningful existence. And then, perhaps, they can stop seeking signs of validation from others and become healthy and maybe altruistic...
 

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I agree entirely.

I think Twos need to search for validation within themselves to be happy...because relying on others does not constitute stability. Twos need to find a sense of purpose to feel fulfilled..and I believe that if they find a niche in life where they contribute to the goodness in the world (whether through a career, service, or hobby), then they can feel as if they have purpose and a meaningful existence. And then, perhaps, they can stop seeking signs of validation from others and become healthy and maybe altruistic...
Yes that's so true. I know when I am thoroughly involved in something which totally is in sync with my values; I feel validated regardless of any external gratitude. It's like I actually see the good in everyone then and feel validated internally which means I don't look elsewhere or depend on others so much. Hope that makes sense.

On the other end of the scale; if I don't care adequately for my own needs (which I have learned to do more of recently and funnily enough my life is unbelievably fantastic despite lots of stuff going on which would normally have me in a downward spiral)...then I become my shadow self and see all the negatives in everything. Not good at all.
 

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Would asking Two's what type of validation they need help? I suspect I know the answer, but an explanation would be greatly appreciated.
Well, I suppose I can only speak for myself on this, but I would probably respond to that kind of question with "I don't know." I'm not so sure it would be helpful for the Two to reveal that to someone so that the other person could respond the way the Two wants them to; it seems like it might have a negative effect if someone asked that, with two very possible outcomes:
A) Learn how to feed the Two's pride [bad]
B) Possibly offend/shock the Two, which is not your intent [bad]

I actually think that being that upfront with the subject might be abrasive to a Two..and might come off as confrontational. (But would depend on the person and your relationship, of course)

I, at least, long to be understood by someone else through their intuition...and if I told someone what I wanted them to respond with (which would be impossible to describe anyway), I would lose some of my sentimental feelings towards them, since they would have me figured out..and..there would be no mystery left..if that makes sense (which I hope it does) :D

Yes that's so true. I know when I am thoroughly involved in something which totally is in sync with my values; I feel validated regardless of any external gratitude. It's like I actually see the good in everyone then and feel validated internally which means I don't look elsewhere or depend on others so much. Hope that makes sense.
I wish i felt that way more often! I'm a senior in high school and I'm having to make so many choices about college and careers and I'm afraid that I will never have any sort of positive impact on the world (which is a definite possibility), so I've been feeling quite...dead inside. I know that when I planted a garden, I felt fulfilled. It wasn't anything extraordinary -- it was just a garden -- but I felt like I made something better than it was before, and I felt gratified and accomplished (and hyper :p). It feels great to make a difference and not need a crutch of validation from someone else...
 

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By longing to " be understood by someone intuitively", I suppose you mean that they study you and learn about you the way two's are said to do with other people. Twos are a lot harder to deal with than I thought.:sad:
Thanks for the insight, as always.
 

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You're most welcome...and hey we are certainly don't always come up smelling like roses despite how much we would like to think we do.
And Fenryrr...you still have your entire life ahead of you. Understanding all of this personality stuff at such a tender age is absolutely awesome!:happy: Hey at 48 I still have trouble deciding on a career...but it's never too late to learn and implement new things
 

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Perennial: Yes, that's what I meant...sort of. :happy: It's not so much that I want to be studied, but simply want to have a connection with someone where, just by looking at each other, we can understand and be understood. Anything forced isn't really appealing to me (and perhaps Twos in general; I can only speak for me), so being the subject of a sort of a study so that I could be figured out by someone would not be overly-stimulating for me.Things that fall into place naturally are much more comfortable to me. It's not that I cannot or do not appreciate things that happen with patience and study, but in relationships, I naturally look for someone who just sort of "gets" me...

I honestly have no idea what I'm talking about anymore! :confused: I'm so sorry if I got way off-topic; I've been trying to keep my thoughts linear in this thread..but..y'know.. haha :]
What do you mean by "harder to deal with"? Haha..
--
Difromoz: Thank you so much for your advice and kindness. Really. :D
 
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When I said "difficult" I meant to say that it would be exceedingly challenging if not impossible to be in a relationship with a Two, given their expectations. I could never "just know" what someone wants; matters would be even worse if what you stated about not wanting to be studied is taken as being representative of Twos in general. Let me make clear that these are not criticisms directed at Twos, rather they are an acknowledgement of my own limitations with regard to them. I appreciate the insight.
 

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I dont think necessarily it has to be about someone "just knowing" what i want without me saying it. it's more about that person studying me and noticing patterns, commenting on things like "yeah, you usually ____" -things like that, and then if i act out of my normal pattern, they know that something is wrong or that i am not myself. i mean, i know some people who sort of understand me intuitively, but sometimes their intuition is off. they intuit i might be feeling or thinking this way, even though im not. it's really for me, about patterns or how im usually like.

for example, what gives me a great source of familiarity is when people comment to me "you seem a little __ today" or "yeah, you're usually ___". Sometimes their observations might be wrong, but for me it indicates that they have been observing me and pick up on small things like that. it shows that the small things DO matter and I am really touched when they notice something small and they comment on it later like "I noticed you went for the decaf this time. smart choice" or something tiny. for example, today, someone commented "you seemed a little quiet today." yes, i was more quiet today because of something bad that happened- that person didn't really get why i was quiet, or really knew where i was coming from, but just the fact that the person said made note of how i seemed that day signals for me a step in trying to understand who i am better.

something else that shows someone is trying to understand me better is maybe when they shoot me an email after a conversation i had with them and they say something like "you know it's really interesting you brought this up. i was thinking about it further, and i was trying to understand what you meant better.... and also these are my thoughts on ___" and that kind of opens up conversation and i feel all happy and giddy inside, even if the conversation isn't about how i feel or where i'm coming from and it's about some random topic

or if people say things like "you seem ___ - is it because of that project you're working on?" it shows that they are taking note of things about me. This is different than being studied, because being studied = mere observations, analyzing me, trying to see through me. Whereas in the examples i give, they make a note about something and they relay it back to me to bounce off of me, see my response and try to better understand me and sort of get where i am coming from. that said, even a simple comment "i see where you are coming from" serves as a source of familiarity in a conversation for me

Perennial... it really seems like there is a specific two you have in mind! esp when you wrote that twos are more harder than you thought!
 

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Yes. I'm currently supporting and helping (willingly, simply because I care) the woman who doesn't love me anymore and has fallen in love with someone else. Expecting absolutely nothing in return. I simply care. And I've done similar things to different people for no good reason.
 
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