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Hello, pretty much the title says it all, but a little back story.

I'm a senior highschool student and in school I often had situations when there's a debate or something and I just feel that everybody is against me... My classmates just try to shut me down by shouting and making complete chaos in those moments, completely retarded, like it's an Ancient Greece where the one who shouted louder was right. And couple of days earlier I read a thread that Fi users tend to stand all by themselves against everybody and Fe users tend to side with majority.

So I'm asking you fellow Fe users, do you/would you back off your personal opinion if it were against the majorities opinion?
 

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Hello, pretty much the title says it all, but a little back story.

I'm a senior highschool student and in school I often had situations when there's a debate or something and I just feel that everybody is against me... My classmates just try to shut me down by shouting and making complete chaos in those moments, completely retarded, like it's an Ancient Greece where the one who shouted louder was right. And couple of days earlier I read a thread that Fi users tend to stand all by themselves against everybody and Fe users tend to side with majority.

So I'm asking you fellow Fe users, do you/would you back off your personal opinion if it were against the majorities opinion?
You’re in still high school huh? I noticed some of your posts reveal very high intuition, so I assumed you’d be much older. And you’re good at explaining in very few words.

I’d say, as an ENTP you’ll be a minority opinion most of the time, because you see possibilities & solutions that others can’t.

As for people shouting you down, it depends on the sophistication of your audience. High school kids can be rowdy, but in a professional environment you’ll do much better.
 

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This is a really interesting question about whether fe users go with the majority and fi users are willing to stand alone and it has really got me thinking.

In my workplace there are a lot of F types and during team meetings I've noticed that the ISFJs and ESFJs (Fe users) always pretend to agree with others when they actually don't. The ESFPs and ISFPs (Fi users) tend to go quiet when they disagree but when questioned directly will give their true opinion. The ESTJ, ESTP and ENFP on our ten are all strong characters who say exactly what they believe in no uncertain terms. Sadly,for me, there are no ENTPs in my workplace.

And for me, it is a constant dilemma. My Ni makes me determined to to seek the truth and it also tends to make me think I am always right (annoyingly for others). But my Fe doesn't want to upset people. Depending on how important the issue is to me and on my mood, I will sometimes hammer my point even if it is at odds with the rest and at other times just nod and go with the flow.
 

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I always side with myself. There is nothing more secure than my intuition. It's never always right, but if I don't trust myself I can't trust anything. Plus, the majority can be entirely retarded and I care more about them enlightening themselves than group harmony or some bullshit.

In your situation, I would stop fighting the wave and shouting. Be silent and listen, and then quietly state your opinions/arguments at low tide. There's something innately powerful about evocative speech from silent characters.
 

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No, I would not. There is no good reason to take the majority's opinion just for the sake of fitting in. Truth is truth; if they will not accept the truth, that is no reason to accept their untruths.

Here's a trick I've found helps; if you're stating something, and someone wants to challenge you (and it looks like they're about to bring everyone in on you), look them directly in the eyes, and call them out. If they don't respond, keep challenging them until they do; clown them a bit, too. If you just refute what they say when they start talking, everyone will jump in to defend them, but if you tell them to explain their position, it frames it as a one-on-one type of deal (and, if he starts looking to his buddies for support, that's a sign that he thinks he can't do it; call him out on that, too :wink:) and makes it much easier to state your point.
 

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I will only side with the masses if I agree with them. If I don't, then I will not.
 

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I typically side with myself. It's just who I am. Although, what helps, in discussions, is valuing the others point of view, regardless of their intentions. Not necessarily agreeing with them, but just listening to where they are coming from and respecting it (or at least trying to). Cause even (the perceived) dumbest in the class, might know something you don't. ;)
 

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I relish the debates where it's me against everyone else. Most of the debates I'm in tend to be this way. Like the time I blurted out in my 98% all male lighting class, that just because a man has sex with another man doesn't necessarily mean that he's gay. Lol If looks could kill I would have died 50 times that day. Every person went on the offensive against me, but what could be more exhilarating than verbally parrying, and deflecting each argument that someone throws at you? I live for this kind of discourse.
 
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I'd side with myself, I'm the only sane one left.
That's nothing to be proud about! Or so, Orsino? Ennui.

Back to the topic, I was actually more busy "sleeping" to actually show any of my opinions, but when people usually did that to other people in front of me I'd go all "If you really want to talk them down, wear high heels, some football equipment, and stand on a damned podium, oh and wear a crown, oh mighty majesty of mysteriously magnificent magnitudes of malevolent malapropisms."

They usually go "dafuq", and I usually tell them "That's how you bully while getting away with it, now go play with your cellphone and send more nekkid pics or something, oh, speaking of, here's your's (shows a cow)"

The entire event will either go to an uproar or confusion, person will start going all "thanks for stopping me, I was about to cuss/beat that prick up" to one of his/her friends, then I'd usually play a recording of other people saying that (don't ask ,I hid a recorder with me at all times during High School), and I'd then say "way to be an individuhal, now go away now, you're boring me more than the drill that went into your head". Person usually doesn't and tries to vent rage and also talk some desperate form of swagger, and I'd just laugh and motion the "beating the dead horse" motion, and tell them "that's what you'd wish you could do with one of your family members, I take it? Well do it to them, not to me".

...And it usually goes on and on until someone breaks it up, either way the attention was shifted to me, and gone away from the guy that didn't want the attention on his own beliefs.

Usually works.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You’re in still high school huh? I noticed some of your posts reveal very high intuition, so I assumed you’d be much older. And you’re good at explaining in very few words.

I’d say, as an ENTP you’ll be a minority opinion most of the time, because you see possibilities & solutions that others can’t.

As for people shouting you down, it depends on the sophistication of your audience. High school kids can be rowdy, but in a professional environment you’ll do much better.
Oh well thank you, if that post wasn't a sarcasm , but anyway in real life I'm very bad at words. :D They get all lost and forgotten when I have to explain something, but here on the internet I can think through posts and correct mistakes.


This is a really interesting question about whether fe users go with the majority and fi users are willing to stand alone and it has really got me thinking.

In my workplace there are a lot of F types and during team meetings I've noticed that the ISFJs and ESFJs (Fe users) always pretend to agree with others when they actually don't. The ESFPs and ISFPs (Fi users) tend to go quiet when they disagree but when questioned directly will give their true opinion. The ESTJ, ESTP and ENFP on our ten are all strong characters who say exactly what they believe in no uncertain terms. Sadly,for me, there are no ENTPs in my workplace.

And for me, it is a constant dilemma. My Ni makes me determined to to seek the truth and it also tends to make me think I am always right (annoyingly for others). But my Fe doesn't want to upset people. Depending on how important the issue is to me and on my mood, I will sometimes hammer my point even if it is at odds with the rest and at other times just nod and go with the flow.
Hmmm that's really interesting, looks like there is little connection between Fi and standing all by themselves and Fe - going with the group opinions and hiding their own. I have been seeing the same connections between types and opinions, except that I haven't met an ENFP, but I have heard that they are "Ultimate justice fighters" and the only ENTP I know is extremely aggressive. It seems like everybody makes a decision based on their own individual values.

For exampleISFJ/ESFJs (stereotypically) would go with the flow to fit in, ENFP are justice and truth fighters as I have said, ENTPs are truth fighters and just love to debate, ESTJs probably side with themselves because of them being very dominant e.t.c.

In my experience ESTPs tend to go quiet mode or side with majority, I don't think they care enough about things like that.
 

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Hmmm that's really interesting, looks like there is little connection between Fi and standing all by themselves and Fe - going with the group opinions and hiding their own. I have been seeing the same connections between types and opinions, except that I haven't met an ENFP, but I have heard that they are "Ultimate justice fighters" and the only ENTP I know is extremely aggressive. It seems like everybody makes a decision based on their own individual values.

For exampleISFJ/ESFJs (stereotypically) would go with the flow to fit in, ENFP are justice and truth fighters as I have said, ENTPs are truth fighters and just love to debate, ESTJs probably side with themselves because of them being very dominant e.t.c.

In my experience ESTPs tend to go quiet mode or side with majority, I don't think they care enough about things like that.
Fe and Fi aren't quite that simple as a blanket statement across all types. A thinking perceiver could, on the surface, seem cold and uncaring for others. Perhaps the descriptor most would use is "asshole". However, most thinking perceivers would never do something they think would fundamentally disrupt the social vibe of a group. However, we also develop our values based on what we know and how we think. In that way, a thinking perceiver might primarily judge a situation where someone has responded negatively as that person just needs to see more inline with what the thinking perceiver sees. On the other side of the coin with Fe/Ti, a feeling judger does the exact same thing. The difference is which function we primarily judge with. With Fi/Te the user would not violate something they view as a firmly held belief. A feeling perceiver might have a deeply held value of not hurting anyone's feelings. In this way, one might think this person is an Fe user since he or she is more likely to be amicable to others. With thinking judgers, they also have their deeply held values that they will never violate, but that isn't always readily apparent. You have to look at all of the functions and how they interact with each other rather than individual functions. Even then, you're not getting the whole picture.
 

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Side with myself. Sometimes the best company you can find is yourself. But friends flock to you generally when you least care. Just act like you don't give a shit.
 

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As an E9 it would have to be important for me not to stfu and back away from the conflict. I have zero issues with standing on my own on things but if there is to be yelling I do not want.

I will never agree with something that does not make rational sense to me, and I will argue untill everyone is sick of me, but others often take my form of 'understanding' interaction to be confirmation of their pov, and basically if I don't care I tend to let that go.
 

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I don't care for the conflict, but if you've got them yelling, you've basically won. It means all they have left is emotional displays. Smile visibly, sit down, and glow.

Now, let us return to what happened before they started yelling: Why did you set them off? It's perfectly possible to argue for a horrible choice, like let's say the functional utility of dead body recycling without the whole house coming down if you do it right. I'd bet even money you got attached to the idea you were defending, the pitch of your voice knocked up a half octave and a couple decibles louder. It;s hard for it not to.

Remember, step one is to debate as if you don't care if you won. Defuse the inevitable ratcheting of your own voice, and disarm them with a periodic stinker of a joke. This way, one day when you decide to raise your voice, it'll mean something.
 

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Self. Always.
 
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You should learn how to side with both. Side yourself, and manipulate the environment to make the masses side with YOU. Martin Luther King, Jr. did it
Wasn't Martin Luther King supposed to be an INFJ?
 
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