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Discussion Starter #1
Just curious to what everyone will say.You can say anything about Heaven, Hell, reincarnation, etc. You should put up some form of proof though since is is very... stupid to only put up a statement. You have to have a debate behind a statement that you think is true or there will be no point in believing it.

Please refrain from insulting others about their beliefs, and if you are insulted, then be the bigger person and ignore the insult. In general, people that are mean will say mean things because they have a low self-esteem and feel the need to others down with them.
 

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I do not believe in immortality. I believe that, when my brain stops functioning, I will be dead...forever. I cannot force myself to believe in some sort of divinity simply because others believe in it, or because it would make me feel better. Similarly, I cannot disbelieve in my ultimate non-existence simply because it is a mind-blowingly horrible thought that I will, at some point, possibly without even realizing it, cease to exist, never to exist again. All my experience and knowledge points to the atheistic conclusion that there is no second chance at life after a death in this world. Mortality is mortality. It sucks that we only get this short time to work with, but in a way, I can't imagine immortality would be any better...
 

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I see no evidence for it and all the people who experiment with this don't come back.
 

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What do you mean by beyond?

I believe there is something after the grave. I don't see much reason to support the notion of an immortal immaterial soul that survives death. I'm not saying it is impossible, it just seems unlikely and unnecessary. The bible does not teach that the soul goes on to live somewhere else apart from the body after death. Instead it explicitly teaches that everyone will be a part of a bodily resurrection in the last days. These bodies are not described as being identical to those we have now (they likely are incapable of sexual reproduction or digestion), but they are clearly bodies. I see the soul as sort of like a platonic form describing our identity, a gestalt composed mostly not not entirely by the patterns of our neural network. Such information can be expressed in multiple media, but does not exist apart from the media expressing it. I don't expect us to endure after death, but rather be recreated from God's memory. Those who remained in Christ will be given incorruptible bodies and life forever in glory. while the rest will face judgment and die again, this time ceasing to exist forever (not suffer eternal torment).


In the mean time, I tend to agree with atheists on our fate. Our consciousness ceases, the patterns that define us break down, and the matter of our flesh decomposes and goes on to become parts of other objects and organisms.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I see no evidence for it and all the people who experiment with this don't come back.
Well that 90 Minutes In Heaven guy seems to think different. He "says" that when he had died he went to Heaven and had seen it for himself. I doubt that really happened, and that he saw some hallucination, but I just wanted to put that out there.:happy:
 

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What do you mean by beyond?

I believe there is something after the grave. I don't see much reason to support the notion of an immortal immaterial soul that survives death. I'm not saying it is impossible, it just seems unlikely and unnecessary. The bible does not teach that the soul goes on to live somewhere else apart from the body after death. Instead it explicitly teaches that everyone will be a part of a bodily resurrection in the last days. These bodies are not described as being identical to those we have now (they likely are incapable of sexual reproduction or digestion), but they are clearly bodies. I see the soul as sort of like a platonic form describing our identity, a gestalt composed mostly not not entirely by the patterns of our neural network. Such information can be expressed in multiple media, but does not exist apart from the media expressing it. I don't expect us to endure after death, but rather be recreated from God's memory. In the mean time, I tend to agree with atheists on our fate. Our consciousness ceases, the patterns that define us break down, and the matter of our flesh decomposes and goes on to become parts of other objects and organisms.
The Bible makes many references to a punishment directly following death, as well as a paradise of sorts. It's 4 AM and my memory is shaky, but there's a story in which a rich man never had kindness to share with a supposed man of god, and the supposed man of god ended up in heaven, after which the rich man ended up in hell. The rich man asks for water, which is not a request he is granted. Following this, he asks the man of god to tell his family of the horrors which await them.

Sounds pretty direct, to me. :bored:
 

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Epicurus discussed death extensively, and reasons not to fear death. He's isn't given much credit for what he actually thought happened after death. While I do not think his argument is perfect, it is closest to what I believe and it meets the criterion of posting my belief with an argument of sorts.

Epicurus' first premise was that there are only two things in the world -- matter (atoms) and the void. He claimed everything, including the gods were made of atoms. He even said the soul is made of atoms.

His second premise was that all human experience is based off our senses. It is our eyes, ears, nose, etc that allow us to experience. It then follows that what gives the soul experience are the sensory organs.

The third premise is that after death the sensory organs are inactivated (since the body is dead) and the body begins to disintegrate.

Since the sensory organs are no longer intact, the soul does not have a way to experience. Without experience, there is no "life" after death. As the body disintegrates, he believes the soul does as well.

You may be skeptical of the soul being made of atoms, but with modern science, it may make sense. I think that it is possible that the human soul does, in fact, reside in the biological/electrochemical structure of the brain. If our brain is not the source of our souls, then I ask what is? And what is the soul made of?

So I don't believe in life after death. I would like the idea of reincarnation. It would be interesting to experience life as different people. But I do not believe this argument leaves room for reincarnation. In this argument, the body is the "form" of the soul, and when the body disintegrates the soul also looses shape. I don't see how the soul can remain intact long enough to reach another body.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
It makes sense about everything being made of atoms, though I don't really know about a soul. I guess the soul can be the source of energy that lets us be living human beings.:mellow:
 

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i hope you say "beyond the grave" in an old 40s horror movie accent. i'm not religious, but i do believe in statements without proof. proof are for suckers, hard core thinking and intuitive leaps can solve anything. statements without facts are just so much more interesting and harder to solve. there wouldn't be any fun left with the proof people in charge
 

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There is nothing. And since "there is something beyond the grave" is a positive factual statement it has the burden of proof. No proof --> we are forced to assume there is nothing beyond the grave. Without evidence there is as much reason to believe in heaven as there is reason to believe that after our deaths we are eternally amused by a medieval jester in a well ornamented oriental garden with a glass roof on top. The truth is, without evidence they are both equally ridiculous assumptions.

Also, DBS might be an incomplete cure but it has gone into great lengths proving once and for all that the mind and the "soul" are manifestations of the body, and that they cannot exist outside the body.

YouTube - Deep Brain Stimulation Research (DBS) - Mayo Clinic

It basically proves that your brain chemistry and electicity completely dictates your moods and motivations.
 

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speaking of which, do you think there is something beyond infinity? where does Buzz Lightyear go, exactly?
 
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