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And by that, I mean having too much of it. This winter, I have found it difficult to step outside without thinking about how horrible homelessness is, and that some people will freeze to death tonight. My university town has a particularly bad homeless problem (the council have been absolute bastards on this issue) and, after spending god-knows-how-much trying to help various people out, I have found it too much to bear, and try to avoid the centre of town as much as possible because it makes me horribly anxious and misanthropic, and pessimistic about the state of society in general. In fact, going into town at all can be difficult for this reason, because of all the manipulative advertising and packaging, the wastefulness of consumerism, and the hopelessness of change...

It's not always like this; I'm not always negative. But it's fucking hard to maintain that attitude in the face of all the absolute bullshit that forms the foundations of society.

And it's also god damn hard to stay distant enough from my friends' problems. I feel like I see clearly how they are causing their own unhappiness, and it's painful to watch them struggle with that, knowing that there's not much I can do except offer my opinion, advice, and comfort. Some of these problems will take a lifetime to overcome, if they are to be overcome at all. And that's fucking painful to know. That said, it is incredibly rewarding when I see my friends benefit from my input. But it takes a LOT of mental energy on my side.

I guess I wanted to vent a bit and see if anyone here relates. There's this stereotype of INTPs being "unemotional" and "unempathetic" but it's complete BS in my case. What pains me is that people see me as some sort of cynical joker, when I care deeply about so much.
 

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Perhaps, yes. It does occupy my mind, but for a hell of a lot more 'stupid' reasons. So not this:

I have found it difficult to step outside without thinking about how horrible homelessness is, and that some people will freeze to death tonight.
But more like... "What if my fish dies?"; "God I hope grandma doesn't spill her drink."; "Should I smoke in front of this passerby?". I can't be bothered by the 'bigger' issues. Not because I can't do anything about them (well that too I guess), but because I honestly feel 0 difference in terms of the emotional distress they cause.


Ps: I don't want to throw any insults, but your post sounds loaded with Fi. Sneers to 'society', deeply feeling for the homeless, ... the type of issues that traditionally upset the Fi users amongst us. (Not implying you are an INFP, just stating my observation.)
 

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But more like... "What if my fish dies?"; "God I hope grandma doesn't spill her drink."; "Should I smoke in front of this passerby?". I can't be bothered by the 'bigger' issues. Not because I can't do anything about them (well that too I guess), but because I honestly feel 0 difference in terms of the emotional distress they cause.
If you feel 0 difference in terms of emotional distress, wouldn't that mean you are bothered equally by 'bigger' and 'smaller' issues? I'm not sure which you mean.

Ps: I don't want to throw any insults, but your post sounds loaded with Fi. Sneers to 'society', deeply feeling for the homeless, ... the type of issues that traditionally upset the Fi users amongst us. (Not implying you are an INFP, just stating my observation.)
The post sounds loaded with Fi to you because I am talking about empathy (which incidentally is associated with Fe too). If I was talking about the metaphysics of causation you would say the post is loaded with Ti.
 

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I have a lot of empathy for animals, global and potential suffering and for people who suffer in silence. So yeah, things like homelessness, sick kids, people who are obviously suffering but they're trying to hide it etc. get to me. But it's weird because that's empathy for people that I don't know and quite often can't even see. My problem is with people in my vicinity. For some reason I can't muster up any real empathy for them. I always think that they're overreacting and they should get a grip or they're trying to manipulate me or they're suffering from victim mentality. I just don't care.
 

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Yes, I can relate. My solution is extreme isolation from news and people and/or drugs (whatever your preference). Not the best solution but it is not something I can switch off. I have to keep functioning for other things.
 

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If you feel 0 difference in terms of emotional distress, wouldn't that mean you are bothered equally by 'bigger' and 'smaller' issues? I'm not sure which you mean.
That is another way of putting it, yes. 0 difference = equal.

The post sounds loaded with Fi to you because I am talking about empathy (which incidentally is associated with Fe too). If I was talking about the metaphysics of causation you would say the post is loaded with Ti.
Like hell. A commie can talk about capitalism from a commie perspective. You come clean about it.
 

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@starvingautist

You're talking about sympathy, not empathy. There is a difference. Psychopaths without an ounce of pity or compassion can experience empathy, it's essential to their manipulations. Sympathy, that's where the feels come in.

Or maybe it's a case of lingual drift like 'gender' supplanting 'sex', the implied condescension that often accompanies sympathy being perceived as politically incorrect and distasteful.
 

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Because of the frequent abuse the practice, involuntary commitment to mental facilities went out of favor in the 1960's. In particular, Governer Ronald Reagan of California shut down many mental institutions. Unfortunately, that has proved to be a mistake, as so many homeless people actually belong in those institutions- for both society's and their benefit. I realize this sounds very paternalistic, but that is exactly what is called for in many instances. The loss of use of public space by residents is infuriating. America has some beautiful, well designed public spaces that are purpose built to foster a sense of community. That is especially important in the multi cultural environment that is forced upon us. But it only takes one guy screaming at himself and others, or running around naked, or pissing and shitting on the walkways or fountains to ruin it for everyone else. Just one guy, but there are usually a dozen or more.

Anything would be better than the situation that many cities face today. Where providing aid just increases the number of homeless in a city, until it becomes an unbearable nuisance to the residents. Who demand that SOMETHING be done. What is usually done is the homeless are put in jail or relocated.
"Don't tear down a wall if you don't know why it was built" America has spent the last 50 years tearing down useful walls without considering what will happen when they are down.( That's a metaphor, for the 10 minutes to Wapner crowd.)
 

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And by that, I mean having too much of it. This winter, I have found it difficult to step outside without thinking about how horrible homelessness is, and that some people will freeze to death tonight. My university town has a particularly bad homeless problem (the council have been absolute bastards on this issue) and, after spending god-knows-how-much trying to help various people out, I have found it too much to bear, and try to avoid the centre of town as much as possible because it makes me horribly anxious and misanthropic, and pessimistic about the state of society in general. In fact, going into town at all can be difficult for this reason, because of all the manipulative advertising and packaging, the wastefulness of consumerism, and the hopelessness of change...
I don’t think I’ve ever related to something more than I’ve related to what you said right now. Especially the going out to town part - I’ve just quit on that part in general xD I moved somewhere further from the city, because of this very reason, also grumpy vindictive homeless people are a no go.

This seems to be an inferior Fe issue. Where we breakdown is our need for social harmony and intimacy in social relationships. What everyone values. (i.e, protecting people from homelessness). Only problem is we are not our Animus and we are not ESFJs, we just can’t live purely for other people for too long as it leads to nervous breakdown.


It's not always like this; I'm not always negative. But it's fucking hard to maintain that attitude in the face of all the absolute bullshit that forms the foundations of society.
It’s okay to be negative, and it’s okay to be different. I feel like I had to learn that personally, or I would have suffered an aneurysm or something as an ENTJ 9w1 used to tell me.


And it's also god damn hard to stay distant enough from my friends' problems. I feel like I see clearly how they are causing their own unhappiness, and it's painful to watch them struggle with that, knowing that there's not much I can do except offer my opinion, advice, and comfort. Some of these problems will take a lifetime to overcome, if they are to be overcome at all. And that's fucking painful to know. That said, it is incredibly rewarding when I see my friends benefit from my input. But it takes a LOT of mental energy on my side.

I guess I wanted to vent a bit and see if anyone here relates. There's this stereotype of INTPs being "unemotional" and "unempathetic" but it's complete BS in my case. What pains me is that people see me as some sort of cynical joker, when I care deeply about so much.
Again, toxic inferior Fe strikes again. We only see the world and the immediate situation through a very small detailed lens and a subjective one and we only feel social relationships in a negative way. I guess seeing the possibility of finiteness, in our relationships, that they are all temporary and unique, in time, allows for this sort of emotional release.

The only humans in this world who don’t have emotions, are robot humans.
 

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Ps: I don't want to throw any insults, but your post sounds loaded with Fi. Sneers to 'society', deeply feeling for the homeless, ... the type of issues that traditionally upset the Fi users amongst us. (Not implying you are an INFP, just stating my observation.)
Fe is more about social values, relationships,etc and that would include a tendency to be successful in social services and social justice or politics. I can relate to all of this as an inferior Fe user, as I usually fall short of trying to help people, it’s a no go.

Both Fi and Fe users , or Ti and are users can participate in social justice, it has nothing to do with cognitive styles of thinking. Those are the symptoms , not the disease.
 

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Most empathy is reflexive + processed at lower-functioning, low energy, sub-personal intuitive-mental capacities/units. (Post #1) demonstrates strong empathetic awareness.
 

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I use my powers of rationalisation to detach myself from the suffering around me, otherwise I fear it's going to break me.
 

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@starvingautist

You're talking about sympathy, not empathy. There is a difference. Psychopaths without an ounce of pity or compassion can experience empathy, it's essential to their manipulations. Sympathy, that's where the feels come in.

Or maybe it's a case of lingual drift like 'gender' supplanting 'sex', the implied condescension that often accompanies sympathy being perceived as politically incorrect and distasteful.
They flipped the sympathy and empathy definitions in the counseling field, at least at my college and in all of the books that they use. I wonder why they did that.

Sent from Heaven using My Will
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Like hell. A commie can talk about capitalism from a commie perspective. You come clean about it.
??

@starvingautist

You're talking about sympathy, not empathy. There is a difference. Psychopaths without an ounce of pity or compassion can experience empathy, it's essential to their manipulations. Sympathy, that's where the feels come in.

Or maybe it's a case of lingual drift like 'gender' supplanting 'sex', the implied condescension that often accompanies sympathy being perceived as politically incorrect and distasteful.
Nah, there are two types of empathy - psychopaths have cognitive empathy, but not affective empathy. (knowing why someone feels that way vs. feeling how they feel that way). I think this is common terminology. Sympathy is more of a supportive feeling (I think I can empathise, and empathise affectively, without sympathising). But yes, I think sympathy & compassion are caught up in the mix.

I don’t think I’ve ever related to something more than I’ve related to what you said right now. Especially the going out to town part - I’ve just quit on that part in general xD I moved somewhere further from the city, because of this very reason, also grumpy vindictive homeless people are a no go.

This seems to be an inferior Fe issue. Where we breakdown is our need for social harmony and intimacy in social relationships. What everyone values. (i.e, protecting people from homelessness). Only problem is we are not our Animus and we are not ESFJs, we just can’t live purely for other people for too long as it leads to nervous breakdown.
Yeah it probably has to do with inferior Fe. A hard part of dealing with this is that I could not, even possibly, be an activist about social issues, because I would go completely nuts (partly from having to deal with all the petty people-politics and managerial inefficiencies that would come with it, partly because I'd rather spend my time thinking about other things, even meta-ethics). I had to reconcile myself with pursuing academia while atrocities happen elsewhere on the globe. I'm considering going into psychotherapy, but I'm not sure if I'd get too burdened by it. I figure it's a good profession with regards to flexibility, and it'll be different every day, plus I'd get to (attempt to) solve some of the hardest problems out there. But emotionally, perhaps it'd be draining.

Lol I remember once in Glasgow I smiled at a homeless guy and walked past (no cash) and he started shouting after me - "just give me your fucking money!!" - which made me feel awful, and I thought I'd get stabbed or something. It was fine, I just felt like a shit person.


It’s okay to be negative, and it’s okay to be different. I feel like I had to learn that personally, or I would have suffered an aneurysm or something as an ENTJ 9w1 used to tell me.


Again, toxic inferior Fe strikes again. We only see the world and the immediate situation through a very small detailed lens and a subjective one and we only feel social relationships in a negative way. I guess seeing the possibility of finiteness, in our relationships, that they are all temporary and unique, in time, allows for this sort of emotional release.

The only humans in this world who don’t have emotions, are robot humans.
Well, I'd rather not be negative. It doesn't feel great. And I wouldn't say I only see social relationships negatively, far from it - I love people, and that's what makes me hate them. You probably get what I mean.

Thanks for this reply. It's good to relate to someone about this!

Most empathy is reflexive + processed at lower-functioning, low energy, sub-personal intuitive-mental capacities/units. (Post #1) demonstrates strong empathetic awareness.
Could you elaborate on this?

I use my powers of rationalisation to detach myself from the suffering around me, otherwise I fear it's going to break me.
I do this too, but all the while I'm aware that in this way it's easy to perpetuate the suffering.
 

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No, not really. I sometimes tear up when reading about people going through great lengths to take care of those less fortunate, but this isn't consistent and I frequently disregard such stories because I don't care. I'm still trying to figure out what makes me tear up in some cases though, it is a fairly new phenomenon and I don't understand it, which is annoying.
 
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