Personality Cafe banner

21 - 40 of 69 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,039 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Hey, don't give up that easily... OK, I don't want to push you, just nudge... :crazy:

When you do have the time, i think that from my impression of you on the forum so far and what kateykins wrote, going deeper in analysing your tertiary and inferior could be revealing.

Well, now that's off my chest... Sorry to bother you. :unsure:

No, I really don't see the need.

I can practically read people's minds. How could I not be an INFJ? :wink:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
Well according to what Penchant posted I think I'm more Ne...

And accoring to Vel's description (in Dave's first post), Ethical seems to fit me better...so Fe Se...I do make lots of plans and schedules and I seem to clean my room a lot buts that's because it is always a mess! I don't know how I manage it. I always seem to be doing something and I will spend hours in my room and think what I have I just been doing all this time?

I also tend to leave for lectures at the last possble minute so I end up just dumping what I was doing so that I leave on time. Hence why it's always a mess.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
I'm more intuitive Ni-Ti subtype. Apparently I have been more intuitive ever since childhood. I had an interest in subjects like sciences and math and was fascinated by more abstract concepts in physics. At the same time I didn't really take to language and literature classes much, even though writing stories is supposed to be an INFJ strength. My thoughts are apparently less people/relationship-focused than for some INFJs. I like quiet contemplation as this is when I achieve most insight into something I've been studying and trying to understand.

My Ti kicked in hard in late teens and I went on anti-depressants for a while because of it. I couldn't sleep nights and was crying every other day. MBTI types that use Ti judge themselves critically, competitively, on standard of achievement (at the same time they judge others morally, as per Fe). So if you ever felt like you are such a failure that you suck and aren't achieving - this is what Ti is in its essence, a driving force goading you towards some sort of individual achievement. It is not good or evil in itself inherently - it is only evil if you use it to harm yourself and others.
I seem to suffer from Ti a lot then! I am such a perfectionist that part of the reason I hated criticism from other people was because I already gave enough of it to myself. I always want to be the best, to get the top marks in everything I ever do, so if I don't get the grades I expect it can be heartbreaking.

I've always been more interested in the arts and literature. Science and maths were never an interest of mine until recently. I've been enjoying reading more books and watching TV programs to with science and it is very interesting.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,794 Posts
I'm more intuitive Ni-Ti subtype. Apparently I have been more intuitive ever since childhood. I had an interest in subjects like sciences and math and was fascinated by more abstract concepts in physics. At the same time I didn't really take to language and literature classes much, even though writing stories is supposed to be an INFJ strength. My thoughts are apparently less people/relationship-focused than for some INFJs. I like quiet contemplation as this is when I achieve most insight into something I've been studying and trying to understand.

My Ti kicked in hard in late teens and I went on anti-depressants for a while because of it. I couldn't sleep nights and was crying every other day. MBTI types that use Ti judge themselves critically, competitively, on standard of achievement (at the same time they judge others morally, as per Fe). So if you ever felt like you are such a failure that you suck and aren't achieving - this is what Ti is in its essence, a driving force goading you towards some sort of individual achievement. It is not good or evil in itself inherently - it is only evil if you use it to harm yourself and others.


IEI, INFp, INFJ - Intuitive subtype description:
Facial expression is typically interrogative, and they seem calm, dreamy, and contemplative. Their line of behaviour is frequently passive. Romantic spirits. They live in the world of illusions, and they attempt to avoid negative emotions. They can be optimistic. They shrink away from conflict situations and support compromises. They are restrained in their clothing, elegant and refined. They can fulfill the functions of an abstract thinker, work in psychology and psychotherapy.

The intuitive subtype appears as a quiet, tactful, languid and diffident individual. They seem torn off from reality, inert and poorly adapted to life. However, such impressions are erroneous, for they possess a fine intuition, which aids them in establishing useful connections and obtaining support from influential people. Seem externally serene but sentimentally are disposed to experience moodiness and bouts of melancholy. While their voice at times seems monotonous they often induce a light surprise, even full interest, from the interlocutor. Outwardly are pensive, slightly strained/intense.. Prone to emanate sadness masked in sardonic irony. Speech is measured, smooth and intimately heart-felt. On their face they almost constantly exude a polite half-smile that easily wins people’s trust. Gestures are modest, shy. Gait is ponderous, elegant.


IEI, INFp, INFJ - Ethical subtype description:
Flatters and is charming and communicable. If they see negative emotions in the people around them, they will try to arrange things so that people will calm down. They will mobilize well in dangerous situations. Loves to be in the centre of attention and dramatize proceedings, possesses a sense of humour. They easily manipulate by intonation and voice; can work successfully as a journalist --- They easily succeed in enticing the person they talk to. Outwardly they can appear extravagant; frequently takes a bohemian and bright form.

The ethical subtype provides the impression of a soft, charming and emotional person. Usually look inspired and optimistic. Possess a fine sense of humor allowing them to list their problems and failures while smiling. Are ironic, crafty, unpredictably and inconsistent in behaviour and conversation. Creating original contrasts, they can unexpectedly prick and then just as quickly embrace/kiss. Artistic and charming; are eloquent in dialogue, occasionally portraying shades of familiarity and impudence. They’re generally affable, kind and careful. Easily draw attention and thereby attract people; talent towards persuasion: states requests in such a manner that it is difficult to refuse them. Movements are graceful as is their gait. Speech is emotional, rich with shades, sometimes melodious.
I can't choose between either of these. Parts of the first fit me and parts of the second fit me but I can't decide which on fits me more...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
712 Posts
I can't choose between either of these. Parts of the first fit me and parts of the second fit me but I can't decide which on fits me more...
I've got the same problem with the IEE subtypes. I'd need more description to identify with one over the other, but there isn't enough translated information on these subtypes to go by.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
I would consider myself to use alot of E yet in most online tests i only slightly fall into the J category, so this is rather interesting. Perhaps it is best for eacn one of us to "define" our own INFJ, although MBTI helps to give a general insight i think in someways it isn't specific enough, as i am sure you will find that some INFJ's are completely different to one another in many ways, perhaps it is pretty tough to get a gauge on things, i dunno, interesting nonetheless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
the INTPs have 25 varieties of them: personalitycafe.com/intp-forum-thinkers/4763-25-varieties-intps.html

we should be allowed to have at least these 2 :wink:
I think we are each a unique sub type...there will be as many subtypes for INFJs as there are INFJs themselves. :happy:

I wouldn't say that my Fe and Se were my strongest pionts or more refined atributes, by far, yet the actual discription of an Ethical Subtype in how they conduct themselves fits me really well. I don't think my movment is especially graceful, but I definatly have a melodiouse voice, that dances around my vocal range more than other people's do. It's very sing song, and can be anoying. At least it is to me when I hear it played back to me.

Originally Posted by dsv2e
No, I really don't see the need.

I can practically read people's minds. How could I not be an INFJ?
Ah, but ENFPs are pretty good at working people out too. They just do it useing a different thought process.

I think I kind of inhabit a bit of a grey area, between INFJ and ENFP. Both my Ni and Fi are quite strong, and my Ne is stronger than my Fe. But as Ni is still the strongest function, and roughly I am ordered NFTS, function wise, I seem to come out as an odd INFJ...who frequently acts like an ENFP and shares many of their quolities. INFJ is just simply a slightly better fit in general, but like clothes you buy in stores, as aposed to those tailor made for you, it's not 100% perfect. The types, like clothes sizes, are made to fit a wide range of people and it's possible to fall somewhere between the two, or have a top half one size, and a bottom half the size above, or vise versa.

At least, that is my personal assesment of the matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
I think I kind of inhabit a bit of a grey area, between INFJ and ENFP. Both my Ni and Fi are quite strong, and my Ne is stronger than my Fe. But as Ni is still the strongest function, and roughly I am ordered NFTS, function wise, I seem to come out as an odd INFJ....
Please don't think I'm trying to 'attack' you in any way, but I'm just wondering how you're using Ni, Ne, Fe and Fi? Does that mean you have no way or absorbing concrete information (S) or a thinking function? I also don't really get how you could inhabit a grey area between INFJ and ENFP, seeing as being introverted or extraverted is determined by how you recharge your batteries; by being alone or by being with others. Do you gain energy from both situations and are also drained by both situations? I also don't get how you can be in between two types who share not a single cognitive function, even though we have the same temperament.

And if you're NFTS it sounds to me like you're just a regular INFJ. Ni > Fe > Ti > Se. Or do you mean something else by that?

I just don't see the logic in it. Maybe you can explain to me what you mean?

edit: I hope it doesn't sound too confronting. I just have a hard time appearing 'warm' when using hard logic. But when something flies in the face of everything I've learned, I get curious. :tongue:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,039 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Ah, but ENFPs are pretty good at working people out too. They just do it useing a different thought process.

I think I kind of inhabit a bit of a grey area, between INFJ and ENFP. Both my Ni and Fi are quite strong, and my Ne is stronger than my Fe. But as Ni is still the strongest function, and roughly I am ordered NFTS, function wise, I seem to come out as an odd INFJ...who frequently acts like an ENFP and shares many of their quolities. INFJ is just simply a slightly better fit in general, but like clothes you buy in stores, as aposed to those tailor made for you, it's not 100% perfect. The types, like clothes sizes, are made to fit a wide range of people and it's possible to fall somewhere between the two, or have a top half one size, and a bottom half the size above, or vise versa.

At least, that is my personal assesment of the matter.
Maybe, but I'm definatley not an ENFP. I'm not any kind of P...I assure you.

I can understand why someone would think that I'm an extrovert. I can blend in fine with them, and I can have fun with them, but at the end of the day I go Ni all the way.

And actually, I do think Ni is still my #1 function. I would prefer that it not be, but I can't live on Fe alone. There just seems to be some aspects of myself that I can't seem to change.

Vel mentioned that the ethical subtype does like to be in the center of attention, and this can be very true for me. But the weird thing is, I don't like the fact that I like it. The same thing can be said with me being girl crazy. I don't want to be "shallow", but I can't seem to change that either.

I'm not perfect, and I can't be perfect. I would like to think that my "good" qualities outweigh the "bad", but I have a hard time concentrating on what's good about me. I am very self-aware, and sometimes I wish I wasn't, but I am very aware that I am too self-aware which is too self-aware. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
Please don't think I'm trying to 'attack' you in any way, but I'm just wondering how you're using Ni, Ne, Fe and Fi? Does that mean you have no way or absorbing concrete information (S) or a thinking function? I also don't really get how you could inhabit a grey area between INFJ and ENFP, seeing as being introverted or extraverted is determined by how you recharge your batteries; by being alone or by being with others. Do you gain energy from both situations and are also drained by both situations? I also don't get how you can be in between two types who share not a single cognitive function, even though we have the same temperament.

And if you're NFTS it sounds to me like you're just a regular INFJ. Ni > Fe > Ti > Se. Or do you mean something else by that?

I just don't see the logic in it. Maybe you can explain to me what you mean?

edit: I hope it doesn't sound too confronting. I just have a hard time appearing 'warm' when using hard logic. But when something flies in the face of everything I've learned, I get curious. :tongue:
Oh no, I think it is a sensible question to ask, and I am glad you have. I was hoping someone would bring it up, rather than secretly think I was talking rubbish, lol. If people don't confront me or contradit me, how can I explain myself, or correct myself when I have made an error? I may well have done, and I like to know when I have.

How have I come to these conclusions which fly in the face of MBTI logic?

Ok, MBTI states there are exactly 16 types of people in the world, with a set of fixed "functions" which determine how they think and make decisions. This is based on the work of Jung.

Only 16 types of people in the world? Well that's bullshit, and that's what Karl Jung said too. His said that you can certainly make generalisations about people and group them, but where does that end? you start with one or two types, but the shear variety and complexity of human nature quickly expands the number of types you need. likewise...only FOUR functions? Pffft...yeah, no, it had to be seperated further to essentually eight, but they aren't a comprehensive discription of subskills in those catogories, and you can excel at one N sub skill and suck at another. Well clearly the same can be said of Ni too, it must be composed of other "sub functions" and this will lead to lesser, but still notable, differences in Ni users, even of the same type.

Humans also have acess to all their cognative abilities, unless they are damaged in some way. Using one more than another doesn't mean you can't use the others. People like to think it does, as it excuses some of their behavioures or lack of interest in expanding those other skills. Which is all functions really are, a crude discriptions of variouse skill sets, and those skill sets have a loose link to neurology and brain structure.

This is why Karl Jung did not create MBTI type systems. They are useful, but fundamentally flawed. (also, I think he died)

For example, INFJs are grouped with Idealists, yet we are quite differnt to other Idealist types. Individually we are also quite different to each other. If we only used idealists to discribe the types it covers, you would get some ENFPs feeling as if they shaired more features of Inovators, as that includes ENTPs, as they are more similar to ENTPs than INFJs.

If functions are simply skill sets we all posses, why can't I have strong Ni and Fi? Because I must fit only one of 16 boxes, which essentually represent different human archytypes? No one is a pure archytype. I think some people fudge their actual function order to find a "best fit," or feel they must be unhealthy or mistaken, because some people with lots of quolifications decided that those 16 types and ways of thinking made more sense and were more univerally applyable than the individuals actual inner structure.

Yet such people exist, which acording to the rules of the 16 types, cannot be! So we get people going: oh if you mostly fix box A, but sometimes do stuff from box C then you have a box C "shadow type". People don't have shadow personalities lunging over them, apearing when you are threatened by evil...they are whole and compleate beings, it makes more sense they posses all the functions all the time, but just use them when they feel they are most apropreate. The actual rules are wrong, but people are too invested in them for them to be changed, and they are genuinly impressive and useful most of the time, providing you are awair of their flaws.

Sadly they are based on what seems logical, not how people really work. Like the belife from times past that men had two testicals as one produced female childen and the other male. It's pretty logical initually, but it doesn't mean it's true when you look more closly at what is actually going on.

I mean, why can't you be energised by the outside and use Ni/Si/Fi/Ti as your dominant function? Because those people with quolifications said, no, introverts seem more likly to be throughtful types, and I think to function properly the order you use your skills would have to go i,e,i,e or vise versa?

So, rather than trying to fit a predetermined box, I am looking at what I feel is really going on inside me, and how I really behave, then testing the theory on me, not applying myself to the theory. What I have personally found is I am an outgoing INFJ, with aspects of ENFP, and that though my Ni is strong so is my Fi. I also have good Ne and Fe, balenced Ti/Te which is average, and lesser Si, Se...though Si is better than Se...I still come out as INFJ though, cos Ni is dominent, and I am ordered NFTS over all, ignoring the i/e thing. It might be more acurate to say I am an NFTS, who most closely responds to the INFJ sub type. As others have said with the socinomics subtypes, some people definatly fit one or the other, and others straddle the two. If you look deeper in Ni and Fi, you might find a base skill importaint for both, that I accel at, and would explain why I seem not to be able to work this way, but do. Other INFJs are probably the same, so I'm not saying I am special.

Oh, and yes I am challenged with T and S, because I am dyslexic. T and S in real terms correspond to skills I naturally struggle at. I think of T/ S skills as left brain skills, and N/F skills as right brain skills. Dyslexic brains have been shown to be structrally different to other peoples, we have some weird shit going on, which seem to damage some dyslexics ability to handle left brain tasks, but mean they can kick many "normal" folks butt at right brain skills...and I regularly do kick me some "normal" butt at certain things. I can see some "normal" people as pretty stupid if I am not carful, because I am so good at certain things, but equally I look really stupid at times, because I can't freaking spell, or do basic maths. I have to keep that in mind, so I don't overdose on my own awsomeness or think I am utterly useless. (hence the odd mix of: I rock , but damn I am useless and anoying...I don't rock that much, I have going)

It's not ALL T or S skills I struggle with, I have a highly specific set of difficultis and strenghts, which most of the general population will not have. They probably come down to a seeming minisuce varation in my brain. But, based on this...I might be wrong about MBTI, and it works perfectly for "normal" people, but not for me because I am broken or whatever. However, if there is even one variation outside the norm, the rules as they exist are possibly wrong, and need re-examining. I know Zomboy has meantioned already it is hell to use MBTI in people with autisim or aspergers, cos they too have highly specific skills and difficulties, which can be totally polarised.

People often say to people like this: you can't be like that, or you are broken and not fully human, as most people arnt like you and it does not fit my rules I have devised for what humans are...but hey, we are as we are. You can't force us into boxs just because it makes it awkward for you, as our existance shows your theories are wrong, and now you have to go re-work the whole damn thing to acomidate or make sense of us.

Conclusion: MBTI is wrong. I can be however I like or actually am....yet it still has a great deal of merit, and can provide huge insights into how people work, as a lot of people do fit the rules MBTI lays out.

MBTI is a starting piont, not a desnation. If you read more about human cognition/cognative functions, the idea of there being only four types, with eight varients, is laughable. We are FAR more complex than that, and I am just one instance of what can result from tiny varibles in cognition, there are loads of different types of learning difficulties, mental issues, or things that affect cognition (altzimers,scistic fibrosis, parkinsons). You can get all sorts of different affects on cognition from altzimers, depending on where it start in the brain.

I resurch this stuff because I am all into understanding how I work, so I can deal with a world set out for people who don't function as I do, and cos I like to throw science at people who sneer at my existance. I also intend to understand others, so we can meet half way.

I can provide links to overviews on things I've touch on, and some resurch papers if you like...(I know you probably don't, but a girl can dream)
....

I know I have made a lot of staments, but all are purly my opions, also at pionts I am talking to myself more than the reader. Please disagree with me if you see errors in my reasoning! I like that, I don't want to have lots of misconceptions about things, especially how I work. :happy:

I also appoligise if the shear lenght and detail of this is not what you thought you were getting into. It's why I just made a short generlisation before. I've not gone into loads of detail to be all, I know more than you do, I am right...I just, have problems with handling information and understanding how others do that. I am also more used to explaing my theories to people who are attacking me, or think they know everything and wip out some pseudo-science. You get a lot of pricks trying to sell "cures" for dyslexia ect, on the disabilty forums I frequent, with only small sample size for resurch, if any. Hence I'm pretty critical of theories, or data I am presented with. I puplicly shred those abusing education and knowledge to get money from people who might lack education because of their problems, I do it for both sport and justice. I've been lucky with the suport I got, and I try to use it to defend and help others with my issues...

Annnd...stop.

(I am so sorry I wrote this much, but I don't know how else to do it so you understand where I am coming from, and can piont out wher the flaws in my reasoning lie....Oh god Filigee stop typing!!!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,545 Posts
IEI, INFp, INFJ - Intuitive subtype description:
Facial expression is typically interrogative, and they seem calm, dreamy, and contemplative. Their line of behaviour is frequently passive. Romantic spirits. They live in the world of illusions, and they attempt to avoid negative emotions. They can be optimistic. They shrink away from conflict situations and support compromises. They are restrained in their clothing, elegant and refined. They can fulfill the functions of an abstract thinker, work in psychology and psychotherapy.

The intuitive subtype appears as a quiet, tactful, languid and diffident individual. They seem torn off from reality, inert and poorly adapted to life. However, such impressions are erroneous, for they possess a fine intuition, which aids them in establishing useful connections and obtaining support from influential people. Seem externally serene but sentimentally are disposed to experience moodiness and bouts of melancholy. While their voice at times seems monotonous they often induce a light surprise, even full interest, from the interlocutor. Outwardly are pensive, slightly strained/intense.. Prone to emanate sadness masked in sardonic irony. Speech is measured, smooth and intimately heart-felt. On their face they almost constantly exude a polite half-smile that easily wins people’s trust. Gestures are modest, shy. Gait is ponderous, elegant.


IEI, INFp, INFJ - Ethical subtype description:
Flatters and is charming and communicable. If they see negative emotions in the people around them, they will try to arrange things so that people will calm down. They will mobilize well in dangerous situations. Loves to be in the centre of attention and dramatize proceedings, possesses a sense of humour. They easily manipulate by intonation and voice; can work successfully as a journalist --- They easily succeed in enticing the person they talk to. Outwardly they can appear extravagant; frequently takes a bohemian and bright form.

The ethical subtype provides the impression of a soft, charming and emotional person. Usually look inspired and optimistic. Possess a fine sense of humor allowing them to list their problems and failures while smiling. Are ironic, crafty, unpredictably and inconsistent in behaviour and conversation. Creating original contrasts, they can unexpectedly prick and then just as quickly embrace/kiss. Artistic and charming; are eloquent in dialogue, occasionally portraying shades of familiarity and impudence. They’re generally affable, kind and careful. Easily draw attention and thereby attract people; talent towards persuasion: states requests in such a manner that it is difficult to refuse them. Movements are graceful as is their gait. Speech is emotional, rich with shades, sometimes melodious.
Thanks vel I haven't read this description before but I wanted to ask why did they name the second type "ethical"? This is a bit confusing for me because I have a "strong J" but at the same time I fit in the first type above but I'm n enneagram type so ethics and applying my ideas or values practicality is very important for me; so this causes me to use the Fe alot. :confused:

Just a question about Ti function, the OP mentioned this:

I would rather someone flat-out disagree with me than to say that there is no absolute truth, which is of course an absolute statement.
Isn't seeking the absolute truth or a truth part of the Ti function?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
Yet such people exist, which acording to the rules of the 16 types, cannot be! So we get people going: oh if you mostly fix box A, but sometimes do stuff from box C then you have a box C "shadow type". People don't have shadow personalities lunging over them, apearing when you are threatened by evil...they are whole and compleate beings, it makes more sense they posses all the functions all the time, but just use them when they feel they are most apropreate. The actual rules are wrong, but people are too invested in them for them to be changed, and they are genuinly impressive and useful most of the time, providing you are awair of their flaws.

Sadly they are based on what seems logical, not how people really work. Like the belife from times past that men had two testicals as one produced female childen and the other male. It's pretty logical initually, but it doesn't mean it's true when you look more closly at what is actually going on.

I mean, why can't you be energised by the outside and use Ni/Si/Fi/Ti as your dominant function? Because those people with quolifications said, no, introverts seem more likly to be throughtful types, and I think to function properly the order you use your skills would have to go i,e,i,e or vise versa?
The explanation for why we can have some types and not others goes like this. Personality corresponds to neurology of the brain. The brain is constructed in a specific way. Some brain regions link into others, but some are not connected together. So when information enters our mind via senses it gets processed in a specific way. It can flow from one region to another only if they are connected. If regions are not connected then it cannot flow this way. Hence why we can certain types like Te-Si-Ne-Fi, because this is how brain can be wired, but cannot have other types like Ne-Fe-Se-Si because brain cannot be connected this way.

Why functions go i,e,i,e has to do with them being opposites. For example if one function, Ai, thinks white is good and another function, Bi, thinks black is good, then you cannot use Ai and Bi for thinking. They will produce a major cognitive dissonance. So then people realized that the trick is in that these opposite functions are separated in orientation and it was Ai and Be. So this way Ai think white is good for oneself, and Be thinks black is good in the outside environment and they don't contradict one another this way. This is why we have TeFi, FiTe, NiSe, and NeSi and no some random way around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,704 Posts
A Scanner Darkly goes into what happens when the brain is sending the user mixed signals.

A Scanner Darkly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During this period, the author ceased writing completely and became fully dependent upon amphetamines, which he had been using intermittently for many years. "I did take amphetamines for years in order to be able to — I was able to produce 68 final pages of copy a day," Dick said.

Because of its semi-autobiographical nature, some of Scanner was torturous to write. Tessa Dick, Philip's wife at the time, once stated that she often found her husband weeping as the sun rose after a night-long writing session. Tessa has given interviews stating that "when he was with me, he wrote A Scanner Darkly [in] under two weeks. But we spent three years rewriting it."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,174 Posts
First of all, I agree with what Vel said.

(I am so sorry I wrote this much, but I don't know how else to do it so you understand where I am coming from, and can piont out wher the flaws in my reasoning lie....Oh god Filigee stop typing!!!)
That's quite alright, I understand wanting to be thorough. What I don't understand is why there can't be 16 types. You only need 4 (concious) functions to have a functioning apparatus. A way to interact with the outside world (Fe), a way to get information from the external world (Se), a way to filter incoming information (Ti) and a way to engage our internal world (Ni).

Like you said, even if there's only 16 types there's still many different types of people. But if there's two INFJ using the exact same cognitive functions (Ni>Fe>Ti>Se) it doesn't automatically mean they have to be exactly the same person. Just like two people can own the same type of car but drive very differently. Just like Hitler and Gandhi can both have the INFJ personality type.

Aside from that my biggest objection is that when you let go of the system behind MBTI, there's no point in discussing it at all. There'd be no INFJs, ESFPs or ISTJs. Just HUMANs. Then we're back where we started, unable to categorize people. Because let's face it, that's were doing. Creating boxes for people to fit in. I personally think that's a good thing because it gives you something to work with.

edit: I'm also unable to conciously use Te, Ne, Si or Fi. But I consistently notice myself using the other functions. The way I understand them to work corresponds with my actual experience, and I also recognize them working the same way in other people using those functions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Filigeedreamer

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,849 Posts
The way it has been described in socionics, which I find a more accurate portrait of what's going on in my mind at least, is that you aren't assigned 4 functions but all 8 - but then they are divided into blocks of 2 and property of each is explained.

The blocks are as follows:

1. Ego block: consists of leading and creative functions - dominant and auxiliary in MBTI sense - this is Ni and Fe for INFJs
2. Super-ego block: consists of role function and vulnerable function - rejected alternates of ego block, role and vulnerable functions are heavily suppressed because they have been rejected by ego function / not useful to ego functions - this is Si and Te for INFJs, and indeed many INFJs say that they don't have a good sense of either
3. ID block: consists of mobilizing and suggestive functions - tertiary and inferior in MBTI sense - Ti and Se for INFJs
4. Super-ID block: consists of ignoring function and demonstrative function - alternatives to leading and creative functions, where socionics says that people do have decent use of these functions but use them rarely and see them as boring and meaningless exercise overall - this is Ne and Fi for INFJs

Described in a lot more detail here: Functions - Wikisocion
I find that MBTI is a bit simplistic in how it assigns and treats functions. It just spits out 4-letter code at you and tells you this is the functional order. But there is little material out there to explain why? why is the order this way? This is probably because MBTI has been developed for the workplace, so they tried to make it easier to use by people who know nothing about psychology. It was greatly simplified down (and this is part of the reason why people who study socionics say MBTI is bullshit). Connecting it to socionics and archetypes and at least in my case I was able to connect some parts to evolution of society, it starts to make more sense why the functions are assigned as they are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
The explanation for why we can have some types and not others goes like this. Personality corresponds to neurology of the brain.
Check, I'm with you so far.

The brain is constructed in a specific way. Some brain regions link into others, but some are not connected together.
yes...

So when information enters our mind via senses it gets processed in a specific way.
Ah...and this may be where I am having trouble understanding. I have processing abnornalities, I do not process data like other people. Perhapes I am erronosly trying to apply my expirences to others, or this is why I am having difficulty interpreting how the functions relate to my expirences. ?

It can flow from one region to another only if they are connected. If regions are not connected then it cannot flow this way.
Hmmmm...ok, but what if your brain has more connections than other peoples?

Hence why we can certain types like Te-Si-Ne-Fi, because this is how brain can be wired, but cannot have other types like Ne-Fe-Se-Si because brain cannot be connected this way.
What if data is prevented from moving a certain way, due to injury or structural issues with the brain matter?

Why functions go i,e,i,e has to do with them being opposites. For example if one function, Ai, thinks white is good and another function, Bi, thinks black is good, then you cannot use Ai and Bi for thinking. They will produce a major cognitive dissonance.
Just cos it screws you up doesn't mean it can't happen.

So then people realized that the trick is in that these opposite functions are separated in orientation and it was Ai and Be. So this way Ai think white is good for oneself, and Be thinks black is good in the outside environment and they don't contradict one another this way. This is why we have TeFi, FiTe, NiSe, and NeSi and no some random way around.
One of the theorys on learning difficulties is people like me found a loop hole to these rules while we were developing, or developed in a way that did not make this an option. It suposedly gives us freaky powers, but seriouse short comings. Hence why the severly learning disabled can be amazingly gifted in certain areas.

So...what it comes down to for me is, am I broken...disabled, impaired, and all you guys are normal and function in the correct way, you are healthy and I am sick, I need correcting, or is MBTI wrong and people can be ordered differently, but it's incredibly rair?

That's the issue I am having.

I mean yeah, I have my problems, but I'd get on just fine if I wasn't constantly asked to do things I just am not designed to by society. My cognative differences do not affect my health or ability to sirvive, and I'm not crazy. I just learn differently. Which is what MBTI comes down to, how you take information in and process it, how you learn and respond to things...well, I don't do it like most of the population.

I'm not anti-MBTI or I wouldn't be here, it's more I want to see how I fit into it considering my neurological set up is suposed to be different, and I do see differences in myself compaired to the ideals. I am trying to understand the spirit of MBTI so I can see how I fit into it, what rules do I break, if any? Can I then use the principles behind the theory to better understand myself?

It may be Ni, Fi ect is not what is going on with me...but something is up, and I have a vague ideas what, but I want to find what it is in MBTI terms.

But this was a really useful post. Do you have a link you could give me to more information on how MBTI and it's functions are ment to corrolate to neuology or areas in the brain?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,039 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Isn't seeking the absolute truth or a truth part of the Ti function?
I don't think it's so much that I have sought-out absolute truth per say. I just felt that I had to take a position and stand by it, and I prefer for other people who I communicate with to do the same.
 
21 - 40 of 69 Posts
Top