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I told her I "kinda like her" and she just said "okay". And told me not to worry about my friends who make jokes.
I wouldn't ask her anymore. She said okay after you said you liked her, that's extremely far from an enthusiastic response. She knows you like her. It's up to her if she wants anything more from your connection.
 

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From what you've said so far, I wouldn't assume anything. Maybe she just feels comfortable with you, as a friend, and doesn't realize the vibe she's putting out.

Given the work situation, and the fact that a relative owns the business, I'd be very cautious. Sooner or later she might get fired or feel she has to quit. Do you want to put her in this position?

If you are interested, perhaps take the very unromantic tactic of calling her out. Ask her if her actions indicate some kind of romantic interest. If she says yes, point out the complications that could arise if you become involved, especially if it doesn't work out. If she says no, okay then.

If she still wants to go forward, at least the work implications won't be on your conscience.

Alternatively, ask her on a very old-fashioned date, e.g., dinner in a romantic restaurant. Give her a rose and etc. If she isn't interested, she'll be like "Ew, what are you doing?" Then you can both laugh about it and move on. No harm done.

Or, things might work out okay. It can happen!
 

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I asked her if she liked me , because a friend said these things that you were showing signs and she said she had nothing like that and that we work together and she called him crazy.

I'm not sure if its okay to pursue it after this and just leave it at that guys, like it's just too difficult contextually. If something changes, she will let me know but nothing is going to happen immediately.
You're still overthinking this. You just need to ask her out. Fishing for whether she likes you and whatnot is very much beating around the bush and complicating things. The purpose behind your actions and what they are communicating do not match.

This is basically what a lot of women will hear when you say what you said. "I want you, but I'm afraid of looking stupid and feeling unwanted, so if you like me back, take that risk for me. If we end up getting together and we're faced with a scary situation in the future, I'm probably going to ask you to deal with that for us too." The percentage of women who genuinely like wearing the pants in a relationship is very very small.


We've already visited restaurants together as friends and just us two but we didnt have anything there

I told her I "kinda like her" and she just said "okay". And told me not to worry about my friends who make jokes.

Anyway I think she is being dishonest with me because she also added "we are friends because we live together", wait does that mean, that if we weren't living together, we would be something other than friends? Like these statements are like not conclusive enough.

I'm not necessarily beating around the bush, and the other guy from the bank who liked her who she told to message him, just up front told him he liked her and that's why she asked him to do that but there's no overt signs she likes him and she tries to keep a distance around him lol anyway that's guy's an asshole and assertive in some way but yeah I just did the exact same thing and got a weird response back.
If being honest is what makes a man an asshole, you should give being an asshole a try.

She might be dishonest with you. But there is a good reason for that. For most of human history it has been taboo and often dangerous for women to make the first move, even if they really like the guy. If you think it's hard for you to risk looking stupid, it's a lot harder for her. Bite the bullet. Be the man. And if she rejects you, you get to prove you're not an asshole by not kicking her out. And this time no beating around the bush. Not even 1% of it. Be 100% direct. "I like you. Let me take you out to [insert activity she likes] tonight." It's direct and respectful.
 

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Discussion Starter #44 (Edited)
@Vexus @ENFPathetic

@Supulupup @Sensational

Turns out she rates the guy at the bank a 5, and her friend from the bakery, the nice guy who gives her cakes a 7-8 but apparently shes not interested in him either. She was like hell no to the bank guy :D so we were all wrong, and I was right, she HATES being catcalled by guys and she didnt like the bank guy.

She showed me her ex for the first time. Looked like a scrawny lizard to me and she said he had some attractive traits. He rate his attractiveness a a 30%.

She rated my attractiveness a 70%.

I told her I told my friend to ask her I liked her, I came clean and told her I had a massive crush on her and she responded.

She kept asking if I would get angry and said we shouldnt go dating, not even to the restaurant we went to nearby and we shouldnt be boyfriend or girlfriend in the future.

At first, she said "If we didnt have family problems, coworker limitations and i wasnt from a poor family" we would be boyfriend and girlfriend. Then she took it back later and said, "nah I only said that so you wouldn't get angry"

She said she really really wanted us to be "best friends". There was so much chemistry between us speaking privately in our room that I could have just gone in for a kiss right there and then and she would have been okay with it (you know, to "not make me mad")

I also raised some issues about my dad unnecessarily touching her hips when we were living together, when they were fixing a tank and she needed to get transported outside or on another occasion where she was trying to move past a window from a platform outside. He made a sexual joke and it really pissed me off, in relation to "thanking her for getting him his eggplant", (in other words, his dick) and I told her it was sexual harassment. And she said gross, at first but later he corrected what he said, and said "oh no it's my stomach thanking you because I have stomach issues". This is next to rumours spread by my mum that that were sleeping together occasionally and he was sleeping with a past assistant, and her mum also yells at her thinking this may be true, I've seen them disappear on one occasion but cant really verify the theory. My dad also has partial ownership of the company. I forgot to add, so I would have to leave the premises and live with my uncle closer to the girl I like, in the event I ever hit or sue him.

I was seriously yelling him to my mum saying he crossed the line and I'm going to smash him for it and never did that before but that's the girl I like and I confessed everything.

But then I wasnt planning on fighting my dad after...

Well then this girl started crying when I confronted her about all of it.

she may be moving to the capital to attend university fulltime next month and she cried when I asked her is she was leaving, and she said "do you want me to stay?" and of course I said "yes" and that's what prompted this whole discussion about her being my crush .

At that point, I felt I loved her so much in my heart that I just kept complimenting all the great things shes been doing at work and personally and socially, and how she will be a great person and how I would accept her whatever interests or paths she takes.

Anyway its confusing but she wants us to be best friends and we both said sometimes that evolves into gf and bf.
 

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@Vexus @ENFPathetic

@Supulupup @Sensational

Turns out she rates the guy at the bank a 5, and her friend from the bakery, the nice guy who gives her cakes a 7-8 but apparently shes not interested in him either. She was like hell no to the bank guy :D so we were all wrong, and I was right, she HATES being catcalled by guys and she didnt like the bank guy.

She showed me her ex for the first time. Looked like a scrawny lizard to me and she said he had some attractive traits. He rate his attractiveness a a 30%.

She rated my attractiveness a 70%.

I told her I told my friend to ask her I liked her, I came clean and told her I had a massive crush on her and she responded.

She kept asking if I would get angry and said we shouldnt go dating, not even to the restaurant we went to nearby and we shouldnt be boyfriend or girlfriend in the future.

At first, she said "If we didnt have family problems, coworker limitations and i wasnt from a poor family" we would be boyfriend and girlfriend. Then she took it back later and said, "nah I only said that so you wouldn't get angry"

She said she really really wanted us to be "best friends". There was so much chemistry between us speaking privately in our room that I could have just gone in for a kiss right there and then and she would have been okay with it (you know, to "not make me mad")

I also raised some issues about my dad unnecessarily touching her hips when we were living together, when they were fixing a tank and she needed to get transported outside or on another occasion where she was trying to move past a window from a platform outside. He made a sexual joke and it really pissed me off, in relation to "thanking her for getting him his eggplant", (in other words, his dick) and I told her it was sexual harassment. And she said gross, at first but later he corrected what he said, and said "oh no it's my stomach thanking you because I have stomach issues". This is next to rumours spread by my mum that that were sleeping together occasionally and he was sleeping with a past assistant, and her mum also yells at her thinking this may be true, I've seen them disappear on one occasion but cant really verify the theory. My dad also has partial ownership of the company. I forgot to add, so I would have to leave the premises and live with my uncle closer to the girl I like, in the event I ever hit or sue him.

I was seriously yelling him to my mum saying he crossed the line and I'm going to smash him for it and never did that before but that's the girl I like and I confessed everything.

But then I wasnt planning on fighting my dad after...

Well then this girl started crying when I confronted her about all of it.

she may be moving to the capital to attend university fulltime next month and she cried when I asked her is she was leaving, and she said "do you want me to stay?" and of course I said "yes" and that's what prompted this whole discussion about her being my crush .

At that point, I felt I loved her so much in my heart that I just kept complimenting all the great things shes been doing at work and personally and socially, and how she will be a great person and how I would accept her whatever interests or paths she takes.

Anyway its confusing but she wants us to be best friends and we both said sometimes that evolves into gf and bf.
You did what you needed to do. Nice and direct. Unfortunately it wasn't the outcome you were hoping for, but it's ok. Sometimes you really like people and they don't like you back. Stay positive and move on. There is no shortage of attractive available women on this planet. Maybe it can feel that way in the remote environment you're currently in, but that won't be forever.

Oh yeah. As a heads up, don't get roped into anything. Whatever your dad's faults are, he's still your dad. And she's not your woman. Don't let a misguided sense of responsibility strain your relationship with him. Keep your head down, respect the man who raised you, and once you've got yourself a life of your own, you can go ahead and explore the world from a position of strength. Stay on your dad's good side and learn from him if you want to speed up the process.
 

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Discussion Starter #46 (Edited)
Okay, so I'm going to reply to my own post because I tend to give others sound legal, coaching and psychological advice and I think it will help actually posting this directly here so I can process what had happened and how to deal with it all.


@Vexus @ENFPathetic

@Supulupup @Sensational

Turns out she rates the guy at the bank a 5, and her friend from the bakery, the nice guy who gives her cakes a 7-8 but apparently shes not interested in him either. She was like hell no to the bank guy :D so we were all wrong, and I was right, she HATES being catcalled by guys and she didnt like the bank guy.

She showed me her ex for the first time. Looked like a scrawny lizard to me and she said he had some attractive traits. He rate his attractiveness a a 30%.

She rated my attractiveness a 70%.

I told her I told my friend to ask her I liked her, I came clean and told her I had a massive crush on her and she responded.

Well then use your brain dude, she indirectly told you she liked you more than her ex boyfriends. That's a reason dating will definitely come up again, shes just a little unsure right now but its definitely on the table for her, shes just lying saying it's not on the table.

As soon as she says shes not interested in someone somewhere that's not there and has no massive connection to you, then she means it and she doesnt want to date him, even if he is at an attractive level of 7-8.

She kept asking if I would get angry and said we shouldnt go dating, not even to the restaurant we went to nearby and we shouldnt be boyfriend or girlfriend in the future.

At first, she said "If we didnt have family problems, coworker limitations and i wasnt from a poor family" we would be boyfriend and girlfriend. Then she took it back later and said, "nah I only said that so you wouldn't get angry"

She said she really really wanted us to be "best friends". There was so much chemistry between us speaking privately in our room that I could have just gone in for a kiss right there and then and she would have been okay with it (you know, to "not make me mad")
That's called a logical inconsistency, when it presents itself, it means the speaker is lying. "Oh wait if we didnt have family problems, we would he bf and gf", if she said that first, then most likely that was a slip of tongue and what her real thoughts are and then she later edited her script and made it seem like it wasnt true, but it definitely was.

We study deceptive people like this in psychology and they always do that and the research obviously doesnt lie.

Since shes already gone out to restaurants with you she probably assumes it would be no different, but it would be if it were just you two. Most likely as "best friends" that would entail going out to places together and hanging out in fields together, and being good friends without overt sexual rewards from the relationship. This is a girlfriend minus the sex, and people will find out if you do it now and she's letting you know and that wont go down well so she's definitely planning on ways to hang out with you as a best friend and later a girlfriend. (Cause tbh, you already knew that she liked you and girls have dated guys for much less than "friends") .

One big giveaway that she is also lying about this whole thing is that she mentioned that she had a "best friend" that she was majorly attracted to(that's what she pretty much said with the rating), but was unsure about dating. Just like yourself, meaning you should pursue her, and keep messaging her and being her friend because you've got a chance for it to evolve into that, as you both agreed.

I also raised some issues about my dad unnecessarily touching her hips when we were living together, when they were fixing a tank and she needed to get transported outside or on another occasion where she was trying to move past a window from a platform outside. He made a sexual joke and it really pissed me off, in relation to "thanking her for getting him his eggplant", (in other words, his dick) and I told her it was sexual harassment. And she said gross, at first but later he corrected what he said, and said "oh no it's my stomach thanking you because I have stomach issues". This is next to rumours spread by my mum that that were sleeping together occasionally and he was sleeping with a past assistant, and her mum also yells at her thinking this may be true, I've seen them disappear on one occasion but cant really verify the theory. My dad also has partial ownership of the company. I forgot to add, so I would have to leave the premises and live with my uncle closer to the girl I like, in the event I ever hit or sue him.

I was seriously yelling him to my mum saying he crossed the line and I'm going to smash him for it and never did that before but that's the girl I like and I confessed everything.

But then I wasnt planning on fighting my dad after...

Well then this girl started crying when I confronted her about all of it.

she may be moving to the capital to attend university fulltime next month and she cried when I asked her is she was leaving, and she said "do you want me to stay?" and of course I said "yes" and that's what prompted this whole discussion about her being my crush .

At that point, I felt I loved her so much in my heart that I just kept complimenting all the great things shes been doing at work and personally and socially, and how she will be a great person and how I would accept her whatever interests or paths she takes.

Anyway its confusing but she wants us to be best friends and we both said sometimes that evolves into gf and bf.
Ok,first off her crying was that how it affected you was a massive factor, and probably indicates and supports her wanting to be in a committed relationship with you because only girlfriends cry over leaving their boyfriends to go to university or whatever lol

Your dad either way , whether hes cheating or not, is harassing her in the workplace as a boss and abusing his power against her. He actually will be sued, but most likely by this girl's parents. You should actually tell them the full story, even if it gets her in temporary trouble, she's thinking of leaving anyway so just if she does, just tell her parents what happened so they can sue your dad and punish him for what he has done.

You can also do a polygraph test on her and get a private investigator to figure out if he is cheating or not, even if it's past cheating.

I have a honest to God feeling that she's not cheating with your crush because she obviously adores you and finds you majorly attractive, (which pretty much proves that initial question you had and were curious about "does she like me?", and the answer is obviously now "yes she said so and she is known* to lie about her whole entire feelings, so she can save herself from punishment from her parents or coworkers, or your dad who owns the company in a certain way" Come on, catch up on it, she EVEN said so herself.

That's also how she expresses her love to you and she compliments you and said you were majorly attractive.

Anyway, if your dad cheated with her, that's a "shit hits the fan" scenario, and you're gonna obviously confront and at least argue with him and then possibly hit him. Any of that means that there will be a dispute over the company and obviously as managing director you own them, and you win the business rights. The property rights may go to all of you though, but they will realise you have the power to fire them from their only place of business from the company and they most likely will get rid of him, not you. I study corporations law and that seems to be an area which you would need to look up for an argument here as to what a MD could do in terms if land or property ownership by another party. I'm sure there are other interests like your own commercial or possession interests which override your dad's property interests, and can eject him for it. It's happened before and that's all you need to make a legal case.

Adding to this, your mum would also argue its hers and she wants him gone, because obviously if that happened, then she would release the kraken, and divorce him and that crush may come clean with all of it too on all your behalf. There most likely will be either a family or judicial investigation into those harassment issues. When they're talking try to record their conversations too but dont get yourself caught doing it. You can present it in court in the worst case scenario or in any scenario where just likely she will contest her rights against harassment (which is a most likely scenario, actually, especially considering her family knows and you could tell them if she leaves the clinic too)

That being said, the personality and connection of the past assistant suggests, they may have been sleeping together.

If he's sleeping with them, the parents will find out directly, and then they will hit him for you and so will your mum who would also find out and then you will hit him. And then maybe your brother would do it too. If it's your girlfriend, they may damn near kill him and put him through thorough legal proceedings over negligence and abuse against you and her.
 

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So she is 22 and I’m 26,
This is not a school setting.
Here are some things she's been showing me :
  • She looks at me and looks away and smiles at the ceiling and she has done this more than once

she might be thinking about something funny, like captain cabinets stuck in cabinets, realized she made eye contact accidentally and went to the ceiling to continue her thought.

  • She's comfortable sitting right in front of me, just three feet away and never adjusts away. Like in my personal square.

Is this a you specific thing, or does she have bad spatial awareness?
  • I remember when someone I knew talked about whether i had a girlfriend or not, she looked at me and flashed her eyes and started talking about how I will find a girl someday
eh, that may be like hoping you get with someone else ?

  • She stared at me this and looked with squinting eyes quickly shifting her head from left to right with a smirk , and she did this on three different occasions, and someone caught her doing it and said you’re gonna drive him crazy if you keep looking at him like that”

might be picturing you with a drawn on French moustache
  • She watches movies with me excitedly, but then again she lives next door and visits a lot

Are you saying that you're friends ? are movies a hobby for her?
  • She talks with me a lot , even though we see each other every day ,she doesn’t seem to get bored with me. She laughs at my every joke, even when others around don't laugh.
but you're friends right ?
  • She tells me that some other guy told her she liked me (okay this is not a sign but what does this mean? Is she trying to make me jealous?)
maybe she's curious about your opinion since she thinks you're friends
  • She tells me her friends want to see her and I walk downstairs and her friends are super silent just smiling weirdly at me and then slowly initiate conversation.
Are they trying to initiate you into a cult?
  • We went somewhere far away and she pat my stomach and it was weird lol
Did it make noise first? or like does she just do things like that?
  • She tried to set me up with a girl, and showed me her picture but then she said that girl already had a boyfriend. Why tell me in the first place?
Was it a thing she found out later or forgot about ?
  • Her voice becomes more high pitched when she talks to me, compared to others
Like an adorable puppy?
  • She has asked me whether I find this girl or that girl attractive
might be curious about you as a friend
  • She referenced some word I said in a caption on an instagram post, the day after she heard me make a point of it
context needed
  • She told me that I have a very beautiful smile and she was amazed by it and says that I am much more attractive than some other guy other people were comparing me to
might be hitting on you, might be friendly
  • whenever we're out somewhere she has no problem sitting next to me but then she had great difficulty sitting next to my dad in the passenger seat because it makes her look like my dad's girlfriend lol
weird, but also is she uncomfortable around him in general ?
  • people keep asking and confusing her for my girlfriend or wife when we go out somewhere lmao wtf, then again that also happens with my sister lmao wth
so, do you like her or just because people want it?


So conclusion = maybe, maybe not. ask her.

note; she may be a friendly NE user and be oblivious to your assumptions. younger me went on more than one date that I didn't realize was a date until embarrassingly late into hanging out with a pal. once realized i didnt let them pay and was clear, but i didn't get why they thought i liked them and i thought they were pals.


So conclusion = maybe, maybe not. ask her.
 

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Not the best reply! Close to the worst, actually. The only problem is the dynamics of the situation; forced in a way to be around each other, working together and so on.



This 50/50 stuff doesn't really work with women. And she's an ISTP, which is like... a loner in a way, someone who could do without contact with society for 6 months and it not even be a thing. A mechanic, a tomboy, a bro. So, you really could just be a bro. ISTP would be found in remote places doing difficult work, and want to do the work, not sit at a desk. Sounds like you guys work in a logging company or something. Remote and work together.

I wrote all that before your new replies. Let's see...



Probably not interested.



"If I don't like you, maybe I lose my job, so okay, thanks for letting me know, this is awkward."



Yes, if you weren't living so close, she probably wouldn't be that close a friend. She's a bro. She likes poking fun and getting her buttons pushed. She's not emotional, ISTP is one of the least emotional types. So lovey-dovey stuff is cringe for her. You're giving off sensitive vibes when she probably just wants to be manhandled.



As someone else said, assertive and asshole is what some women respond to - until they're a single parent with two children. But, in the interim, primal mating dominates the urges of high-Se users. You're likely giving her emotion, and with Fe being her inferior function, she dislikes receiving emotion. She dislikes receiving emotion - and actively avoids it. She's in her happy spot when there's no emotion being dished out. Which is why things like "I like you" don't fly. She's probably the kind of girl who would respond better to "wanna smash?"

With all this in mind, it seems like you're looking for a more emotional relationship. You don't say you're really pulled towards her, so you could just be responding to limited options and hormones from being in such close proximity. If you really cannot help dish out emotion, she's just going to keep pulling away, because inferior Fe actively moves away from emotional energy. If you cry, she's gone kind of thing.

If you wanted to be with her, you'd probably have to break down all your nice guy barriers, and do something out of your comfort zone. I could give you ideas, but they might be crude. Instead, just think of how to be laser-direct in what you want. Generally it's a pattern of behavior though, not a one-off thing. You'd have to be an assertive dick for a long period of time, one who doesn't show any emotion, to regain interest. You would need to joke around and make fun of her and play that kind of game. The friend who called her fat is higher up in her mind, because he doesn't give off emotion to her.

Which again, I don't think is your personality, and you'd really have to adapt yourself in this situation to get anywhere. You'd have to change.

The pains of too little information... people can only advise you on the information they have. So even though I thought all these signs were "Yes" in the initial post, the close proximity, position of power, and her type, all change the picture.

For your own sake, I think you again need to be laser-direct here. Otherwise it is going to eat at you. You're at the point of no return here. If you don't do anything, you've failed regardless. If you push forward through your shyness and directly state what you want (what do you want, anyway? holding hands walking down the road? what does she want? Probably mudwrestling :) ), at least you will know. Like the guy at the bank who just says hey I think you're hot what's your number? What does he want? Just to hook up. And she's responsive to that. If you want a friend with benefits, she's probably more responsive to that.

The only thing I can really say for certain, is that as ISTP, emotion is like an opposing magnet, and they will run from it. Everything else I'm saying is based on a world created in my mind with all these variables and attempting to see where they play out under different situations. You can't hurt her feelings, and she dislikes people who get their feelings hurt, so she's around a lot of guys, who generally have thick skin. Sensory experiences fuel her. Punch her in the arm playfully is her love language. Skydiving. Driving fast. Any sensory thing. I'm not sure your type...

Ok I did some looking at your post history, and you may have said you are ENTJ in a post. This makes sense why you guys get along well, because you dislike giving emotion actually, it makes you cringe, and she dislikes receiving emotion which makes her cringe. You guys connect really well on the idea-level - you guys both have and enjoy the same ideas and things to do and you like her ideas a lot. You both enjoy a sensory experience, experiencing the sights and sounds of the world, though she enjoys it more. I'm surprised you're in this situation actually, but it could be due to the fact that, since Fe inferior users like ISTP still need emotional energy (they just don't need a lot) and since you give off a tiny bit of emotional energy that she needs, she feels comfortable around you. She's just hanging out absorbing the little emotion she needs from you and that makes her fulfilled, where too much emotion makes her uneasy and absolute-zero emotion makes her depressed, and having to be emotional makes you uncomfortable. You probably both enjoy action/anime/scifi movies more than dramas. You guys fit well in that regard. There's no Si between you two, to fill your Se, so she's always on the look out for some sensory experience, and you are too but to a lesser degree; the thing here is, you don't provide it. You don't fill that void for her and she needs a lot of it, Se is her main way of interacting with the world. Punch her in the arm!

Your Te is going to use this information to make a winning-idea call on how to resolve this situation. Trust your Ni intuition from this point on. You really never needed help here. You just needed to be more assertive.And again, her Se is how she interacts with the world and how she feels fulfilled. Any sensory experience is good for her. Anything that makes her physically "feel", is her love language. You can do a lot with that information.

You're trying to connect to her on an emotional level with your inferior Fi, when you really need to be connecting with her on your Te/Se level. You need to ask her, "Hey, what do you think would be really fun to go do?" She's going to come up with some idea using her dominant Ti that facilitates her getting something sensory to fill her secondary Se. And you will use your Te/Ni to know what is a great place to go do that great idea she came up with. And when she sees you just want to have fun with her and don't care, all while you guys are getting this excited, sensory experience, you will grow closer. If you two have never been sky diving, that would be a first that would associate you with fun sensory experiences. But, her idea will be way better, so defer to whatever she comes up with, and apply your Te to implement that idea the best way you know how. It's what you're good at.
Good lord, please stop stereotyping about us ISTPs. 😒

@xraydav From an ISTP female perspective - if I like someone I flat out / directly say it. I don't do hinting, etc. because I don't pick up on the subtle social/emotional cues, nor do I know how to give them (inferior Fe). I prefer a direct, straightforward, no games approach. My mind just doesn't process those subtle social cues and emotional nuances enough to be anything besides direct. "I like you" is not emotion-laden, it's just very as-a-matter-of-fact, a dry fact, a plain statement that isn't lathered in weird social rituals that we often don't understand if those Fe kinds of things don't really make sense to us subjectively via Ti--if we even notice them at all. It's very possible that if you're subtle she will be entirely oblivious to your efforts.

Please do not say "wanna smash?" to her unless you want her to hate you and think you're a rude/nasty asshole that objectifies her 😒 Do keep in mind that attractive women in general are used to dealing with complete pigs/perverts who disrespect us, and we tend to be wary of anyone coming off this way if we have any shred of self-respect and aren't slutty. Attractive women will often have a certain defensiveness about them before anyone even says a single word because they're so used to guys coming onto them in disgusting ways that it becomes something they're cautious about. I'm not easily offended at all, but even if a guy I liked a lot said this they'd come of as a creep and my perspective of them would begin to shift, I'd question their motives, etc. If I didn't like them that way and they said it, I'd think they were a low-key creepy weirdo. This is especially true due to the fact that--again, I struggle to pick up on emotional nuances or complexities, so I interpret things at face value. I wouldn't think, "Oh, maybe he likes me and is trying to indirectly approach me in a silly way." No, I'd just think "Oh, he wants to have sex."

Not all of us are tomboys, either. Some of us are rather refined aesthetes (and therefore feminine) à la Se...albeit in an analytical, pattern observing, and efficiency and functionality-centric kind of way that makes logical sense to us. For example, I don't wear heels (not that no ISTP will), but I love boots because they have everything: comfort, style/fashion, and functionality by being able to be used on just about any terrain; if I decide to go for a walk and spontaneously find some woodsy area to check out, I can do so without bothering to care about what shoes I have on. I'm prepared for whatever situation may spontaneously arise. While some of us might appear feminine on the surface, our personalities tend to be atypical of society's idea of "feminine" because we're less attuned to subtle emotional nuances and tend to revolve more around what makes sense to us...and social norms often don't make sense to us, thanks to Ti-Fe. Ti dom / inf Fe users can be independent thinkers who defy typical social norms or values simply because they don't make logical sense to them. So in personality, we can seem more "masculine."

The tomboy mechanic stereotypes need to die. (I like my nails and jewelry, thank you. I'm just a 3D modeler, enjoying sensory information in solitude, able to create whatever the heck I want to without having to know multiple fields like woodwork, welding, etc. I Ti-Se through it by creating efficient workflows that make logical sense, learning by hands on/doing [experimentation, trial and error, etc.] rather than instructions, etc. Point being: it can manifest in different ways for different people.)
 

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I skimmed through a few posts on this thread. I agree- if it pertains to work related romance= hard no. If one of you is willing to find another job then= possible. Potential tangled mess you will want to avoid.
 

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Good lord, please stop stereotyping about us ISTPs. 😒

@xraydav From an ISTP female perspective - if I like someone I flat out / directly say it. I don't do hinting, etc. because I don't pick up on the subtle social/emotional cues, nor do I know how to give them (inferior Fe). I prefer a direct, straightforward, no games approach. My mind just doesn't process those subtle social cues and emotional nuances enough to be anything besides direct. "I like you" is not emotion-laden, it's just very as-a-matter-of-fact, a dry fact, a plain statement that isn't lathered in weird social rituals that we often don't understand if those Fe kinds of things don't really make sense to us subjectively via Ti--if we even notice them at all. It's very possible that if you're subtle she will be entirely oblivious to your efforts.

Please do not say "wanna smash?" to her unless you want her to hate you and think you're a rude/nasty asshole that objectifies her 😒 Do keep in mind that attractive women in general are used to dealing with complete pigs/perverts who disrespect us, and we tend to be wary of anyone coming off this way if we have any shred of self-respect and aren't slutty. Attractive women will often have a certain defensiveness about them before anyone even says a single word because they're so used to guys coming onto them in disgusting ways that it becomes something they're cautious about. I'm not easily offended at all, but even if a guy I liked a lot said this they'd come of as a creep and my perspective of them would begin to shift, I'd question their motives, etc. If I didn't like them that way and they said it, I'd think they were a low-key creepy weirdo. This is especially true due to the fact that--again, I struggle to pick up on emotional nuances or complexities, so I interpret things at face value. I wouldn't think, "Oh, maybe he likes me and is trying to indirectly approach me in a silly way." No, I'd just think "Oh, he wants to have sex."

Not all of us are tomboys, either. Some of us are rather refined aesthetes (and therefore feminine) à la Se...albeit in an analytical, pattern observing, and efficiency and functionality-centric kind of way that makes logical sense to us. For example, I don't wear heels (not that no ISTP will), but I love boots because they have everything: comfort, style/fashion, and functionality by being able to be used on just about any terrain; if I decide to go for a walk and spontaneously find some woodsy area to check out, I can do so without bothering to care about what shoes I have on. I'm prepared for whatever situation may spontaneously arise. While some of us might appear feminine on the surface, our personalities tend to be atypical of society's idea of "feminine" because we're less attuned to subtle emotional nuances and tend to revolve more around what makes sense to us...and social norms often don't make sense to us, thanks to Ti-Fe. Ti dom / inf Fe users can be independent thinkers who defy typical social norms or values simply because they don't make logical sense to them. So in personality, we can seem more "masculine."

The tomboy mechanic stereotypes need to die. (I like my nails and jewelry, thank you. I'm just a 3D modeler, enjoying sensory information in solitude, able to create whatever the heck I want to without having to know multiple fields like woodwork, welding, etc. I Ti-Se through it by creating efficient workflows that make logical sense, learning by hands on/doing [experimentation, trial and error, etc.] rather than instructions, etc. Point being: it can manifest in different ways for different people.)
I am sure the person you quoted has a nugget in there somewhere -I just can not bother to shift through it at the moment. The delivery is off putting in generalizations as well. Not that they are a bad person. Just the way they convey things can be off putting.

I agree "The tomboy mechanic stereotypes need to die." That happens too often with many type descriptions and people run with it. I take it most have never encountered the type or are not aware when they do- because they put them in a box according to some descriptions online.

Very well said on the advice!

TIPS for females in general.

 

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Good lord, please stop stereotyping about us ISTPs. 😒
How else to get you to post meaningful feedback without pissing you off enough to do it? Thank you very much :)

I'm just a 3D modeler, enjoying sensory information in solitude, able to create whatever the heck I want to
So you're a female mechanic, who will never wear heals but likes to wear boots :)

"A mechanic is an artisan, skilled tradesperson, or technician who uses tools to build, maintain, or repair machinery."

Thanks for the laugh :) Not all mechanics are wrench monkeys. Some people have a broken table leg and say, "I guess we throw the table out and get a new one," while ISTP's build a new table leg and fix the thing faster than the people could throw out their table.

Good to see the resolution to OP's situation, thanks.
 

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Anyway, if your dad cheated with her
Are you saying this girl you're interested in might have slept with your dad? It's hard to follow this. If so I think everyone posting advice here needs to take a step back and take in the totality of the information.

The ensuing potential company battle you listed out does not seem worth it. If your dad slept with this girl, she was willing and able, and wanted it, and you're saying you want to hit him over it or something? Like you had possession of (relationship with) this girl during the fact when you really didn't? You might be getting worked-the-fuck-over by this girl.

The trickle of information from you each time reveals new, extremely relevant information that completely changes the dynamic and direction of advice.

Well then this girl started crying when I confronted her about all of it.
It's probably fucking true then. Get the fuck out. It sounds like you're being expertly manipulated at this point.

You can also do a polygraph test on her and get a private investigator to figure out if he is cheating or not, even if it's past cheating.
Just what the hell is going on in your head at this point? No, a polygraph doesn't do anything, and no, a PI won't be able to dig up past cheating. Your mother already knows! She's not pissed for nothing! No PI required!

If she slept with your dad, she's just as much at fault as he is!

because only girlfriends cry over leaving their boyfriends to go to university or whatever lol
But you're not girlfriend/boyfriend! So the other motives need to be considered! Like working you over to get you on her side. You're literally saying you would help this girl sue your dad and ruin your family and your financial status for the rest of your life, with no evidence of it, and with saying she probably willingly had sex with him, which would almost eliminate any form of workplace sexual harassment claims!

You're not girlfriend/boyfriend. Her crying to you about leaving has some other motive. She might be crying over having to leave your dad!

Anyway, it's all messed up. You seem blind to this. I hope I'm not alone in seeing this as a 10/10 fucked-up-situation now. This is families being torn apart, companies being torn apart, rifts between family members and friends that last decades if not a lifetime, and so much more.

she would have been okay with it (you know, to "not make me mad")
Think about it: what else is she willing to lie about to "not make <someone> mad"? Multiple times in your posts here you admit she is lying to you! Read Hexcoder's reply about ISTPs being direct! The lies are direct - they tell you the motive. "I really want to be with this girl who is lying to me all the time." What?

There's too much insanity here to cover it all.

She kept asking if I would get angry and said we shouldnt go dating, not even to the restaurant we went to nearby and we shouldnt be boyfriend or girlfriend in the future.
"If people saw us and they know I've been sleeping with your dad and now dating you, the social stigma would be crushing, so we really shouldn't be public about our relationship." Are you ok with this? You want a hidden, secret relationship? It sounds like father like son here! You have to come at it from the angle: what is she trying to hide, and why?

not cheating with your crush
There's no such thing! It makes no sense! I can see why she is taking advantage of the situation here though! You sound like a naive country boy who think's he's smarter than he is because he took 1 credit of community college corporate law. I'm not trying to insult you; I'm trying to show you how these kinds of things look from the outside, which is the perspective you need. You need to be slapped in the face; slapped out of your delusion. If you tell a girl you have a crush on her, and she goes and dates someone else, that's not cheating!

she is known* to lie about her whole entire feelings, so she can save herself from punishment from her parents or coworkers, or your dad who owns the company in a certain way
"She is known to lie, so I can never be sure if she actually likes me, loves me, or ever wants to really be with me, and I will never be able to trust her motives or how she feels about things, and thus, won't be able to trust her actions... but hey... she has a vagina!" These things you're saying should be talking you OUT of a relationship with this girl, not into one!

If it's your girlfriend, they may damn near kill him and put him through thorough legal proceedings over negligence and abuse against you and her.
She. Is. Not. Your. Girlfriend. And no one is going to get outraged after the fact. If she was your girlfriend, not only should you be getting the hell out of that situation, but it still would have no weight in any "legal proceedings" over negligence and abuse against you or her. I mean, unless there's some Australian law that states, "You shall not fuck a girl who might become your son's girlfriend in the future."

Thank you for making my relationship troubles look like child's play. The level of relationship problems you're dealing with here is almost as bad as it can get. It will only get worse if you get physically involved with this girl. If you back away slowly, you might survive.

This is, again, all assuming you're saying she might have slept with your dad. It's hard to tell from your writing for certain, because you say it like it's a passing point. Which would be a big fucking reason she's not wanting to be your girlfriend, because of what that would do to you, and the rift it would cause; you could never have a long term, stable relationship. I mean, I guess there's not many options in your remote area where your brain is saying, "This is ok," but... it sounds insane that you're even considering any of it, and all bets are thrown out the window at this point.

You need to look at this from a different perspective, slow down, re-assess the situation, write down everything you think is going on, and see if that's where you really want to go, over a girl that doesn't like you enough to be direct, but might like you enough to have fucked your dad... I don't fucking know lmao. I'm out of this one.

The best thing you can do is ensure you DO NOT sleep with her and entangle yourself in this any more. Back away. Your emotions are already fucked over. Do not go further. Seriously you need to stop and re-assess everything, for a long time. Commit to yourself not to do anything with her; you need to remove those close-quarters hormones from the situation that are raging when you're next to her. You're already acting like she IS your girlfriend, and WAS your girlfriend when she was sleeping with someone else - this is going to get you into so much stupid shit in the future if you actually think she is your girlfriend. Stay away from her for a while. Clear your head. Move out. Live in different quarters. It's a complete mess.
 

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How else to get you to post meaningful feedback without pissing you off enough to do it? Thank you very much :)
Just because I think something you said is stupid doesn't mean I'm upset about it, nor does it mean I think you are stupid overall; if I thought that was the case, I wouldn't waste my time trying to correct what you're saying...although actually, much of that was for OP's sake, so he doesn't come off as a creep.

Not pissed. If I was you'd know it because I'd say so, lol. I'm just a blunt and assertive person that usually doesn't have the energy to lather their words in silk prior to delivering. I simply eliminate interactions with those who take it personally instead. Doing otherwise just doesn't work for me, my efforts manifest as social anxiety, walking on eggshells, and being afraid to say anything at all, because I'm genuinely blind to those types of things rather than it merely being a matter of using more care/caution. If you have a problem with that or can't accept this response, well, there's always the option of either muting me or using your words and saying "please stop interacting with me."

So you're a female mechanic, who will never wear heals but likes to wear boots :)

"A mechanic is an artisan, skilled tradesperson, or technician who uses tools to build, maintain, or repair machinery.

Thanks for the laugh :) Not all mechanics are wrench monkeys.
No, I'm an artist. 3D modeling is not using tools to build, maintain, or repair machinery.

Some people have a broken table leg and say, "I guess we throw the table out and get a new one," while ISTP's build a new table leg and fix the thing faster than the people could throw out their table.
I see my words are wasted on you when I call out your stereotypes. This is something you consider to be a realistic expectation for an entire collection of people?

Oh well, I'm done. I tried.
 

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I skimmed through a few posts on this thread. I agree- if it pertains to work related romance= hard no. If one of you is willing to find another job then= possible. Potential tangled mess you will want to avoid.
Yeah, I personally am like this as well. Never mix work and play. Too much potential for damaging your life.
 

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This is something you consider to be a realistic expectation for an entire collection of people?
No, it's just a useful generalization that does apply to an entire collection of people. Like, you probably wouldn't be lathing a new table leg; you stated as much. But you possess the same hands-on way of working with things and the ability to see spatially as other ISTPs. If you read what I write literally, as in, "all ISTP's would in fact fix a broken table leg," it might come across differently. But since we all know nothing applies to "all" and nothing is set in stone, and there are always outliers, it's up to the reader to not inject "all" into generalizations. Otherwise everyone would have to put explanations after their statements about it "not applying to everyone" all the time. It's up to the reader to know when it's a generalization, and when it's a hard-claim or statement.

ISTPs possess the spatial and technical mind to see the solution to those kinds of problems. It's awesome and I respect it a lot, because I'm bad at it. I can solve immaterial things in my head like it's nothing, but envisioning the many physical parts working together is a very strong ISTP skill. I just acknowledge this trait is something ISTPs as a whole possess, though how they use it is of course going to be different depending on their hobbies or profession and so on.

3D modeling
Ok, you're not a mechanic, just a really close virtual one, still building things, but... they're not machines, unless they're virtual machines, but that code is handled by someone else. You're a 3D engineer, a 3D technician, not a mechanic. I apologize for any offense in reducing you to the lowly mechanic level.

I see my words are wasted on you when I call out your stereotypes.
Correct. That's why they're stereotypes; some disagree, some agree, and they're not to be taken seriously or corrected. They're just ways people see things.
 

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I am sure the person you quoted has a nugget in there somewhere -I just can not bother to shift through it at the moment. The delivery is off putting in generalizations as well. Not that they are a bad person. Just the way they convey things can be off putting.
Yeah, I think I was unconsciously picking up on that and it's probably why I spoke up. I care too much about accuracy (if there is such a thing as caring too much about it), so generalizations typically make me hit the brakes like "wait a minute, back up there." Lol.

I agree "The tomboy mechanic stereotypes need to die." That happens too often with many type descriptions and people run with it. I take it most have never encountered the type or are not aware when they do- because they put them in a box according to some descriptions online.
It does. I think most people also just aren't that great at organizing / prioritizing information. I think that's the root cause of typology stereotypes often times, tbh. People often don't understand the difference between an example of one possible way a thing can manifest, VS a generalization. Furthermore, most people seem unable to be able to look at some piece of information and go, "that doesn't add up with this other information over here that is a lot more solid." The end result...you get confusion in things such as, "ENTPs = the only NTs who socialize for the sake of socializing" and suddenly, not only is ENTJ no longer a thing, but in there's the automatic implication that introverts don't also socialize just to socialize, lol. Apparently we all live on islands with Wilsons.



Very well said on the advice!
TIPS for females in general.
I'm not sure which part, but cool, I'm glad lol.
 
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